Fix & Fortify - 14th Street (L Train) Tunnels Closure

[EphraimB]

Now that the 53 St Tunnel, Cranberry Tunnel, and Joralemon Tunnel is completed, the Canarsie Tunnel is next. How many more after Canarsie Tunnel are there left to do?

[RailRunRob]

22 minutes ago, EphraimB said:

Now that the 53 St Tunnel, Cranberry Tunnel, and Joralemon Tunnel is completed, the Canarsie Tunnel is next. How many more after Canarsie Tunnel are there left to do?

Rutgers Street I believe? IIRC it took the least amount of damage of the flooded tunnels.

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by RailRunRob

[RailRunRob]

Now that I think of it.. what's the story with Joralemon? It didn't flood along with 60th and 63rd streets. What were the repairs?

[Daniel The Cool]

17 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Rutgers Street I believe? IIRC it took the least amount of damage of the flooded tunnels.

 

It actually took a good amount of damage.

[RailRunRob]

27 minutes ago, Daniel The Cool said:

It actually took a good amount of damage.

Your right it took on the same amount of water as Cranberry 1.5 million gallons of water. Why or How were they able to delay it so long? What's there method of selection?  Besides Montague that took on the most water.

Edited June 29, 2018 by RailRunRob

[EphraimB]

1 minute ago, RailRunRob said:

Your right it took on the same amount of water as Cranberry 1.5 million gallons of water. Why or How were they able to delay it so long? What's there method of select?  Besides Montague that took on the most water.

Did they do Montague yet?

[officiallyliam]

2 minutes ago, EphraimB said:

Did they do Montague yet?

Yes, Montague was rebuilt in 2013; the tunnel was closed for about one year to accommodate for this.

[Daniel The Cool]

19 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Your right it took on the same amount of water as Cranberry 1.5 million gallons of water. Why or How were they able to delay it so long? What's there method of selection?  Besides Montague that took on the most water.

There has been work done in the Rutgers Street Tube during the 6th Avenue Weekend Shutdown G.Os but nowhere its finished but at least there has been work going on.

[Lawrence St]

7 hours ago, EphraimB said:

Did they do Montague yet?

You do realize you can search this stuff up on Google right...

[RR503]

8 hours ago, Daniel The Cool said:

There has been work done in the Rutgers Street Tube during the 6th Avenue Weekend Shutdown G.Os but nowhere its finished but at least there has been work going on.

Last I heard the major work is planned for 2022. What form that is to take (weekends/late nights only or all time) have yet to be determined to my knowledge. If FF gets funded, I have a feeling this will be piggybacked with 6th Ave CBTC work. 

[RR503]

1 hour ago, Vtrain said:

I just read in AMNY.com that back on June 29th that the M train will be adding 5 more trains & the E train will get in increase in service as part of the 14th St Canarsie downtown tunnel under the East River.

My question is will there be service cuts on the F & R lines since there will be increase in service on both the E & M lines?

 is, as of the current plan (I stress current because the situation is still evolving) being cut to 6tph. Whether or not those runs will be replaced in Bk by extended  service is as of yet unknown. 

You could, in theory, add 1tph of  without triggering  reductions, but beyond that would indeed cause cuts. I haven't heard of these  increases though, so I can't expound beyond theory...

Edited July 2, 2018 by RR503

[RR503]

19 minutes ago, Vtrain said:

Would it have been better to have the extra 5 M trains terminate at Queens Plaza & use the middle pocket track east of Queens Plaza to turn trains back to Manhattan to have to cut the R trains during peak periods or reroute the R trains to Queensboro Plaza & turn trains back on the express tracks or store trains there for the pm rush.

In a well operated system, where fumigation isn't a thing and all relays are double ended, either of those scenarios would work. Alas, that is simply not the reality here, nor is it one changeable in time for Canarsie. So  to Brooklyn it is... 

[Wallyhorse]

1 hour ago, RR503 said:

In a well operated system, where fumigation isn't a thing and all relays are double ended, either of those scenarios would work. Alas, that is simply not the reality here, nor is it one changeable in time for Canarsie. So  to Brooklyn it is... 

Still think they should keep the as it is, have the extra trains operate as to 96th/2nd (with the being 24/7) and encourage people as much as possible to use the going towards Atlantic-Barclays with a new OOS transfer between Fulton and Atlantic-Barclays and using the at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, especially if going to lower Manhattan.  This keeps the normal and prevents people looking for Broadway along Queens Plaza from getting upset.  

Another option might be to have the become a full-time train between Broadway Junction and 95th-Bay Ridge to replace some of the lost service in Brooklyn (with some trains in rush hours short-turning at Essex Street to keep the Manhattan Bridge from too many trains) with such also replacing the in late nights since except for Whitehall it would cover the entire shuttle route. 

[Lance]

Cool.

[Caelestor]

4 hours ago, RR503 said:

 is, as of the current plan (I stress current because the situation is still evolving) being cut to 6tph. Whether or not those runs will be replaced in Bk by extended  service is as of yet unknown. 

You could, in theory, add 1tph of  without triggering  reductions, but beyond that would indeed cause cuts. I haven't heard of these  increases though, so I can't expound beyond theory...

It makes more sense to add an  train to equal the number of  trains, since any additional QB Express service has to run to 179 St given the terminal limitations at Jamaica Center. Regardless, it looks as if the  is going to 14 tph peak, and the  train increase is probably a decrease in headways to 8 minutes during offpeak hours to meet the train riders at Court Sq. 

I personally think that based on "crowding guidelines" the MTA will not replace the lost  service with extended  service. Additional  service will only appear if more  trains are rerouted to 96 St during the peak.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 7/2/2018 at 6:11 PM, Caelestor said:

It makes more sense to add an  train to equal the number of  trains, since any additional QB Express service has to run to 179 St given the terminal limitations at Jamaica Center. Regardless, it looks as if the  is going to 14 tph peak, and the  train increase is probably a decrease in headways to 8 minutes during offpeak hours to meet the train riders at Court Sq. 

I personally think that based on "crowding guidelines" the MTA will not replace the lost  service with extended  service. Additional  service will only appear if more  trains are rerouted to 96 St during the peak.

Running additional  service may also be more beneficial because it would come in handy for transferring passengers at Essex-Delancey, though I imagine most riders will be just passing through there on the  with its increased frequency. Speaking of the , if it’s getting bumped up to 14 tph, I guess that means the  aren’t getting any increase, contrary to what was previously reported. 

With regards to the , I honestly think they’d be unwise not to replace the lost service. They would be sending more people to the express buses (or possibly Uber/Lyft or their own cars). What becomes of those R46 cars with a 40% service cut in  service? They can’t reassign them to the . They can run on the , which already has a few runs to and from Brooklyn. And I thought they already planned to run some additional  trains to/from 96th-2nd.

[LGA Link N Train]

Right there, the Myrtle Viaduct project is the culprit along with the curve near the Williamsburg Bridge and the incident in 1995. The reasons sit in plain sight so might I say no more

[R68OnBroadway]

2 hours ago, Vtrain said:

Great suggestiion, since the G train won't be using the R68 during the L train shutdown & instead be using the R160's from the Eastern Division, why not transfer these extra R68 cars to the W train & instead extend the W train into Brooklyn to replace some of he lost R trains during peak periods.

Looks like you finally came up with a decent idea... hopefully this continues.

[RR503]

47 minutes ago, Vtrain said:

Lets hope that the W train can be extended into Brooklyn to help out R train riders but where can the W train terminate in Brooklyn.

95, 9th Avenue middle, Bay Parkway, Kings Highway, 59 (relay to 8th middle). 

I'd assume that -replacing- service would go to 95. 

[kosciusko]

Instead of cutting back the  why not just send more of them up to 96th?

[Lance]

Then you start to create a merging situation at 57 Street where the has to switch between the local and express tracks to run between 2nd Avenue and the Broadway Local. That's why I'm more in favor of running additional trains in lieu. However, either proposal is a better solution than Transit simply throwing up their hands in defeat because they cannot run trains to 71 Avenue.

[Lawrence St]

They should really take the time to ESI the Manhattan stations while they're working on the tubes.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

1 hour ago, Lance said:

Then you start to create a merging situation at 57 Street where the has to switch between the local and express tracks to run between 2nd Avenue and the Broadway Local. That's why I'm more in favor of running additional trains in lieu. However, either proposal is a better solution than Transit simply throwing up their hands in defeat because they cannot run trains to 71 Avenue.

Right. Think the Broadway Line’s bad now with the  merging with the  at Herald Square? It’ll be even worse with the  merging with the  at 57th. 

19 hours ago, RR503 said:

95, 9th Avenue middle, Bay Parkway, Kings Highway, 59 (relay to 8th middle). 

I'd assume that -replacing- service would go to 95. 

95th would be the best terminal. Personally, I’d like to see them make the temporary platform at 8th Avenue a permanent one, so trains reversing on 8th middle can pick up passengers at that very busy station. But I suppose that’s more of a long-term project. 

[Eric B]

They need to complete the flying junction there. The local trackways actually don't lead to 60th St.; they lead to the proposed uptown line like the express originally did before being realigned to 63rd St.; and 60th St. is a "wye" between express and local (which is why you can get to 60th St. from the express as well as local).
So northbound, the local trackway is crossed by the 63rd. St. tie-in, so that you could just lay the tracks and build a merge. (a concrete room built on the trackway would have to be moved). It's southbound where it would be more difficult, as the local trackway is moving away from the 63rd St. lead, and there are structural columns in the way.

But I think I did hear they were looking at this, and it's something they should do.

[W4ST]

12 minutes ago, Eric B said:

They need to complete the flying junction there. The local trackways actually don't lead to 60th St.; they lead to the proposed uptown line like the express originally did before being realigned to 63rd St.; and 60th St. is a "wye" between express and local (which is why you can get to 60th St. from the express as well as local).
So northbound, the local trackway is crossed by the 63rd. St. tie-in, so that you could just lay the tracks and build a merge. (a concrete room built on the trackway would have to be moved). It's southbound where it would be more difficult, as the local trackway is moving away from the 63rd St. lead, and there are structural columns in the way.

But I think I did hear they were looking at this, and it's something they should do.

That could allow them to send Broadway Local trains to SAS and Broadway express trains to Astoria, which would be good because after SAS Phase 3, more Broadway trains will be needed going to Astoria than Second Avenue, and Broadway Express has more demand than Broadway local, due to the Manhattan Bridge.