Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 20, 2017 Share #126 Posted January 20, 2017 Oh yes, I know there are gaps, but I wasn't trying to excuse it if that's what it sounded like. I think one major choke point along the M55 will be Canal Street. You can easily get stuck there for 15 - 20 minutes. That probably explains why on numerous occasions there has been a huge gap Southbound. Happens a lot with the BxM18 buses too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted January 21, 2017 Share #127 Posted January 21, 2017 You checked after I did. There were at least four instances of two buses running together. Two southbound that finished and two northbound and two others in between. Alright, so the bunching cleared up a lot quicker than it would've otherwise. If the M5 were still running down to South Ferry, those two southbound buses that finished their trips would still be bunched together somewhere along 5th Avenue (or maybe Broadway if traffic was moving quickly enough) instead of taking their layover and hopefully pulling out on schedule. I'm aware of that. I'm a frequent user of BusTime, probably more than anyone else on here. I guess their goal was to get bunching in line to what you usually see on other lines. It's troubling when we're saying that various occurrences of buses running together in twos on 10 minute headways is better than having packs of three or four buses together. Not sure if you're looking for a medal for being on a transit forum and using BusTime or what, but anyway, I'm not sure how you can realistically make it better with the traffic situation in Midtown (and the number of elderly/wheelchair passengers using Manhattan buses) being what it is. You can add more time to the schedule, but then B/Os will be killing time (and you'll still have the rookie drivers who are afraid of being written up, combined with ones milking the clock who will still manage to be late). You can short-turn some buses, which they already do and it still pisses off passengers looking for service past the short-turn point. You can have some buses run Drop-Off Only, but that'll still piss off anybody who needs to get on during that segment. What exactly did they do with the express buses to make them more reliable besides give them more runtime, and would whatever they did actually work on a local bus, given the different dynamics (more frequent stops, doing pickups and drop-offs, more elderly/disabled riders and more ridership in general)? To add to BM5's point, operators make reliefs at 31 St too. I witnessed this on Wednesday when I rode the line. You mean M5 or M55 operators? M5 operators I can understand since it's the terminal (though if they report to Manhattanville, I guess they have to make their way down to 31st Street on the clock). M55 operators, I don't know why they would have reliefs a few blocks from the terminal instead of at the terminal itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted January 21, 2017 Share #128 Posted January 21, 2017 M55 operators do. As for the M5, I believe they still have reliefs at Broadway and 135th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 21, 2017 Share #129 Posted January 21, 2017 Come to think about it, I'm pretty sure the M6 was supposed to be completely eliminated in the 2009 service reductions. They revised the proposal in 2010 to have the M5 cover the part south of Houston Street, but I guess it goes to show their attitude about providing service in that area. Ironically enough, that corridor along Church Street/Broadway has some of the highest ridership in the entire express bus system. "Yeah, there's no demand for bus service in that area...."(**Looks at crowds waiting for X27/28, Downtown Loop QM/BM buses, and of course, all the SI expresses**). Wouldn't it be ironic if people started using the X10 for intra-Manhattan travel the way people use it for intra-SI travel? (Well, unless the MTA goes through with a plan to truncate all SI express buses downtown). I was going to actually bring up a point in my last post, about express bus usage possibly being on par, or even greater than local bus usage in Lower Manhattan.... But I wasn't exactly sure how true it was. Yeah, they were going to eliminate the M6 outright & leave nothing in its place.... At this rate, they may have well have done that (meaning, leaving the M5 to still be a route running b/w Houston & GWB) & let god sort em out (so to speak)... Because this M55 man, IDK..... I was never fond of running M5's to South Ferry to compensate for the loss of the M6 (that's basically the, it's better than nothing... or better yet, the STFU & take this, stance) & I'm not fond of splitting the riderbase the way the MTA has with this M5/M55 plan.... With me, it's not so much that the M55 isn't the M6 (like I made the point to ShadeJay) - but more, this idea that all these folks are going to willingly xfer from M5's to M55's from Columbus Circle (since riders north of 72nd esp. aren't riding past CC like that) for service past Midtown.... The Garment district wasn't a sort of a "midpoint" on the M5, in terms of how the route was used..... I'll repeat this as many times as I have to - This M55 was set up to fail from the start.... Lol.... I'm done if they resort to promoting localized ridership on express buses in Manhattan, compared to providing the amount of service necessary on a local route.... I can't even call that being frugal at this point.... That reminded me of an old lyric (by Ma$e)..... "...Think it's smaller than the weed in my roach, the seed in my smoke The ni***z ain't cheap - They broke" (except I don't believe the MTA is as broke as they claim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 21, 2017 Share #130 Posted January 21, 2017 I see the gap you're talking about (Riverside Drive & 96 to 59 and 5th). However, remember that M5's typically breeze through Riverside Drive, so while it may look like a big gap, it is not a big gap in between buses as you would think it is. Now the gap from 135th to 172 Street is a different story, as there are more stops, and longer to get between said points. You can't ignore the difference between 59th/5th & Broadway/72nd though... That portion of Manhattan isn't exactly a breeze during most of the day, compared to the Riverside Dr. portion of the route..... Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and ignore the point above.... I actually agree with the separate point being made, however, you're still making the wrong argument here.... The distance b/w two physical buses is concrete; a gap is a gap..... That is quite the distance b/w two buses... What you're pointing out, is a time based argument... You won't be waiting as long to catch that bus (that's at Riverside/96th) for say, SB service if you're somewhere south of 96th along Riverside, at least.... Compared to waiting at some point along Broadway along the route for a, say, SB bus that's in the GWB area - for reasons you've already mentioned.... Also, you would've been better off by generalizing (135th, northward) than specifying (135th to 172nd) to make the point.... Draws attention to the point I'm about to make, which is - It's not as simple as subtracting 96 & 59 and applying the same logic; 135th to 172nd is still a shorter distance.... Well how about this gap... Lovely huh... ** yet another screenshot depicting an epic gap in service on the M55 ** Smh.... This is worse than the screenshot I posted a couple days ago.... Even if there's a bus powered off at 44th, there is still nothing running SB b/w it & City Hall.... If we don't take that into account, then you mean to tell me that the next SB bus is still heading NB at 23rd??? And riders are supposed to rely on this service.... You mean M5 or M55 operators? M5 operators I can understand since it's the terminal (though if they report to Manhattanville, I guess they have to make their way down to 31st Street on the clock). M55 operators, I don't know why they would have reliefs a few blocks from the terminal instead of at the terminal itself. - This particular guess is predicated on something I've noticed on my last couple M12 rides..... I notice that Quill op's from the north take the M12 to the depot.... I notice that you also have op's taking the M12 to 34th..... Didn't think anything of it at the time... Funny how the M12 is used as an unofficial employee shuttle.... So I'm thinking you have ops that are taking 34 SBS' to do the M55..... I'd take my chances with 34th st over 42nd too if I were trying to get to the east side from that far west... Chances of catching *a bus* is greater with 34th, over 42nd.... Traffic tends to be worse along 42nd, to boot..... - It may also have to do with limiting the amt. of layover time along a side street like 44th - which raises the question of why 44th is a terminal in the first place.... Sometimes, buses that are not in service for whatever reason appear on bustime as in service (I've seen that myself a few times). Sometimes a bus arrives while another bus is still on scheduled layover, so that should be taken into account. Now, if there were three buses (which there were at 31 Street a few minutes), then that's likely a case of bunching, since the headway is every 10 minutes (unless there was a bus that takes a lunch break at 31 Street or something). While I get the rationalization, realize those are still excuses.... ...I guess their goal was to get bunching in line to what you usually see on other lines. It's troubling when we're saying that various occurrences of buses running together in twos on 10 minute headways is better than having packs of three or four buses together. Possibly, but I don't think addressing bunching was even a concern in splitting the route.... Embarrassing that it took this much time for this agency to realize the route was too long for its own good.... Yeah, It's troubling when we as NY'ers are exuding any level of a blahzay blah attitude about bunching, period (I myself am even guilty of this; excusing bunching on the more lower headway routes).... Even if it's intentionally or unintentionally done scheduling-wise with locals to LTD's (for routes that have LTD service, that is)..... IDK if this practice is being done on routes with SBS' though (SBS' to locals); haven't stopped to notice..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted January 21, 2017 Share #131 Posted January 21, 2017 - It may also have to do with limiting the amt. of layover time along a side street like 44th - which raises the question of why 44th is a terminal in the first place.... IIRC, wasn't it supposed to end at 37th or somewhere south of 44th originally, but the community pressured the MTA for a greater overlap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 21, 2017 Share #132 Posted January 21, 2017 Smh.... This is worse than the screenshot I posted a couple days ago... Yeah, It's troubling when we as NY'ers are exuding any level of a blahzay blah attitude about bunching, period (I myself am even guilty of this; excusing bunching on the more lower headway routes).... Even if it's intentionally or unintentionally done scheduling-wise with locals to LTD's (for routes that have LTD service, that is)..... IDK if this practice is being done on routes with SBS' though (SBS' to locals); haven't stopped to notice..... Oh bunching happens all over. I see plenty of M86 buses running in packs. Two three or even four buses within 5 minutes. The thing is the is more proactive. They will put some buses in service further down the line. You know they don't want SBS to fail, and having buses bunch like that would show that SBS isn't as effective as they make it sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 21, 2017 Share #133 Posted January 21, 2017 IIRC, wasn't it supposed to end at 37th or somewhere south of 44th originally, but the community pressured the MTA for a greater overlap? Yeah, both the M5 & M55 at 37th.... Now the M5 southern terminal & the M55 northern terminal are both different. Oh bunching happens all over. I see plenty of M86 buses running in packs. Two three or even four buses within 5 minutes. The thing is the is more proactive. They will put some buses in service further down the line. You know they don't want SBS to fail, and having buses bunch like that would show that SBS isn't as effective as they make it sound. Oh, I get there is bunching within SBS' on the same route.... You're talking to someone that lives less than a 1/4 mile of where the worst discrepancy of SBS' to locals is taking place.... (for those keeping score, I have a new record btw.... about 2 weeks ago, I saw f***ing NINE straight SBS' passing by Snyder before a local showed up... The wait was around 20 minutes, and the worst of the bunching were three directly/literally right behind one another - not a vehicle between any of them... When I got to the Snyder stop, 2 of them were waiting at a red..... Silly me was hoping that the local wouldn't be too far behind after seeing that... Sometimes you momentarily forget shit....) Not that I believe there wasn't one anyway, but the B46 SBS was the absolute, unadulterated straw that broke the camel's back for me that illustrated that there is definitely an agenda with SBS.... I don't know if you watch the NFL, but analogously speaking with the B46, it's the equivalent of putting 8 in the box on every defensive play (while that shuts down the run, it does next to nothing for defending a pass)..... The MTA grossly underrated, or flat out didn't give enough of a f*** about B46 local usage with this plan (I'm going to post what happened back on wednesday to me regarding the 46 local, so stay tuned).... I mean, living/frequently being around here, you would have to be a complete & utter fool to believe that there isn't something going on, on a grand scale... ---- But yeah, I was rhetorically asking about routes that have SBS & local services on them, where both counterparts (if you can even call it that) are bunching (i.e, B46 locals to B46 SBS' being close enough to being right behind another).... If that's even happening, it would shine a light on how great SBS is not....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted January 21, 2017 Share #134 Posted January 21, 2017 I'm just sitting here waiting for the M6 to be restored...when I'm dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 21, 2017 Share #135 Posted January 21, 2017 I'm just sitting here waiting for the M6 to be restored...when I'm dead I don't wanna be the grim reaper here, but I regret to inform you that your eulogy has been on file on MTA's servers since 2008/9.... This is when portions of Broadway became pedestrianized.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JubaionBx12+SBS Posted January 21, 2017 Share #136 Posted January 21, 2017 Yeah, both the M5 & M55 at 37th.... Now the M5 southern terminal & the M55 northern terminal are both different. Oh, I get there is bunching within SBS' on the same route.... You're talking to someone that lives less than a 1/4 mile of where the worst discrepancy of SBS' to locals is taking place.... (for those keeping score, I have a new record btw.... about 2 weeks ago, I saw f***ing NINE straight SBS' passing by Snyder before a local showed up... The wait was around 20 minutes, and the worst of the bunching were three directly/literally right behind one another - not a vehicle between any of them... When I got to the Snyder stop, 2 of them were waiting at a red..... Silly me was hoping that the local wouldn't be too far behind after seeing that... Sometimes you momentarily forget shit....) Not that I believe there wasn't one anyway, but the B46 SBS was the absolute, unadulterated straw that broke the camel's back for me that illustrated that there is definitely an agenda with SBS.... I don't know if you watch the NFL, but analogously speaking with the B46, it's the equivalent of putting 8 in the box on every defensive play (while that shuts down the run, it does next to nothing for defending a pass)..... The MTA grossly underrated, or flat out didn't give enough of a f*** about B46 local usage with this plan (I'm going to post what happened back on wednesday to me regarding the 46 local, so stay tuned).... I mean, living/frequently being around here, you would have to be a complete & utter fool to believe that there isn't something going on, on a grand scale... ---- But yeah, I was rhetorically asking about routes that have SBS & local services on them, where both counterparts (if you can even call it that) are bunching (i.e, B46 locals to B46 SBS' being close enough to being right behind another).... If that's even happening, it would shine a light on how great SBS is not....... Since i'm not understanding what you want to know in regards to local and SBS counterparts bunching I'll give several answers based on what I see with the Bx12 - Locals individually do bunch with each other (most often during PM Rush). Given the wide headways of Bx12 local service such bunching is not an everyday thing. - SBS and local buses do bunch with each other but that's not something I care about anyway since I treat them as separate routes and such bunches don't last long anyway. SBS buses are bound to get ahead of the local unless traffic is awful. - SBS buses do bunch quite a bit but then again no bunching at all on this route would be incredibly unrealistic. As long as gaps are not well in excess of the headways I don't find much of an issue with the SBS. Only problem is that quite often gaps of 15-20 minutes (and sometimes wider) pop up out of nowhere and the areas that have service running are seeing the buses clustered together like Garibaldi mentions with the M86. The trailing buses in those clusters end up empty making it look like there's extra capacity to be utilized when on this route there really isn't. - What I have seen although this is rare is a cluster of SBS buses meeting up with a pair of local buses forming a string of consecutive Bx12 buses. The only area along the route where such a thing would even happen would be in between Pelham/WPR and Fordham Plaza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 21, 2017 Share #137 Posted January 21, 2017 Since i'm not understanding what you want to know in regards to local and SBS counterparts bunching I'll give several answers based on what I see with the Bx12 - Locals individually do bunch with each other (most often during PM Rush). Given the wide headways of Bx12 local service such bunching is not an everyday thing. - SBS and local buses do bunch with each other but that's not something I care about anyway since I treat them as separate routes and such bunches don't last long anyway. SBS buses are bound to get ahead of the local unless traffic is awful. - SBS buses do bunch quite a bit but then again no bunching at all on this route would be incredibly unrealistic. As long as gaps are not well in excess of the headways I don't find much of an issue with the SBS. Only problem is that quite often gaps of 15-20 minutes (and sometimes wider) pop up out of nowhere and the areas that have service running are seeing the buses clustered together like Garibaldi mentions with the M86. The trailing buses in those clusters end up empty making it look like there's extra capacity to be utilized when on this route there really isn't. - What I have seen although this is rare is a cluster of SBS buses meeting up with a pair of local buses forming a string of consecutive Bx12 buses. The only area along the route where such a thing would even happen would be in between Pelham/WPR and Fordham Plaza. What I'm not understanding is answering a question you don't understand.... There would be no reason for me to ask if locals on the same route bunch, or if SBS' on the same route bunch, since I've made more than enough replies on this forum prior 1] stating that's what's infact going on in this city, based off my own experiences & 2] agreeing with other posters that's what's going on, when it comes to like services on the same bus route.... I'll cut to the chase.... I believe you understood what was being asked, especially with that shot about you not caring if Bx12 SBS' & Bx12 locals bunch, since you treat them as separate routes..... Minimize it if you want, but let's not waste time with the I don't understand stuff..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAlam Posted January 21, 2017 Share #138 Posted January 21, 2017 - SBS buses do bunch quite a bit but then again no bunching at all on this route would be incredibly unrealistic. As long as gaps are not well in excess of the headways I don't find much of an issue with the SBS. Only problem is that quite often gaps of 15-20 minutes (and sometimes wider) pop up out of nowhere and the areas that have service running are seeing the buses clustered together like Garibaldi mentions with the M86. The trailing buses in those clusters end up empty making it look like there's extra capacity to be utilized when on this route there really isn't. I'm just gonna leave this here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielhg121 Posted January 22, 2017 Share #139 Posted January 22, 2017 Looking at MTA bus time, all the Q44's are operating in cluster, biggest cluster is 4 buses heading to jamaica Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted January 22, 2017 Share #140 Posted January 22, 2017 This won't happen, but I would love for the M104 to run down to around 14th; even if it meant cutting the route back on the northern end somewhere.... To hell with the M12 & far west side service - use those resources to have the M104 terminate at Abingdon Sq to take the place of the M20 as "the" 7th/8th av route.... As for the (remnant of the) M20, I would combine it with the M21 - with service south of Spring only existing for coverage reasons..... Manhattan's bus network south of 14th & west of 6th I never cared for, from jump... And it begins with the M20. I found that most riders that boarded along CPW generally rode it no further than Columbus Circle anyway..... It wasn't/isn't like the 5th/Madison av routes where you have riders up on the East side there riding well past 57th.... You take the 5th/Madison routes, you know this.... But w/ the M10, people really only took it b/w Penn & Columbus Circle (and definitely no further north than 66th) because it was a far better alternative than the M20.... Far as service on the West side goes, I strongly believe the M20 in & of itself is the problem, on so many levels..... I'm not quite sure if I want to deem the route as antiquated exactly, but it does not reflect what (or how) the riders want/need.... Be there as it may, we have riders faced with the splitting of a route that should've never been extended in the first place (M5), while the M20 continues to exist/perform as it is.... Goes to show ya that it's not about the riders.... I don't know if the diversion of the M7 and M104 routes from Broadway had anything to do with a decrease in ridership/lack of ridership. They are more frequent, are 24/7, and cover the busier parts of the route. The M104 could replace the M20 (part of it), but I would run it to at least Christopher or Spring Streets (for connections to from the M8 or the M21). For the M55, it's obvious ridership won't be the same as the old M5 portion (besides the overlap, although that accounts for a very few amount of people who could take the M5/55 interchangeably like that). I feel that the M1 extension will take loads away from the M55 too (from the people who wait on 5th Avenue going south of E. 8 Street. So the "bare-bones" service will eventually more or less reflect ridership loads. Instead of having this route, I was thinking of having the M7 cover the M55 route instead, except that it would take Greenwich, to 8 Street, to Broadway, and then down to the Ferry (southbound only, as the NB route would be the same as the M55). However, that would be a long route (IDK how close in length to the M5, but it appears to be close), and the M7 has reliability problems as it is, given that it goes through Columbus Circle & Times Square, which leads to delays and bus bunching. Another option could an M1 full time extension to South Ferry, since the M1 is not as long as the M7 (the M1 has a straighter and more direct route to Midtown and the Chelsea/Union Square area, compared to the M7). The routing won't be exactly identical as the M55 or the old M6, but will carry riders past 44th Street from points South (although the M1 could run up on 6th and turn at either 32, 38, 44, or 57 Street to go to Madison Avenue). It would be ideal for tourists and those riding from Midtown and South. However, that route would also be long, and likely decrease service reliability (resembles the old M10). Or they could just extend the M5 to Houston, extend the M1 to Worth Street, discontinue the M55, and reroute the M20 down Broadway/Church south of 14 Street. BPC has its own shuttle to the Ferry already, and preserves some service in the Downtown area. Side Note: Anyone noticed that the M104 has a Friday only trip, departing PABT at 11:15 PM? 1)You can't ignore the difference between 59th/5th & Broadway/72nd though... That portion of Manhattan isn't exactly a breeze during most of the day, compared to the Riverside Dr. portion of the route..... Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and ignore the point above.... I actually agree with the separate point being made, however, you're still making the wrong argument here.... The distance b/w two physical buses is concrete; a gap is a gap..... That is quite the distance b/w two buses... What you're pointing out, is a time based argument... You won't be waiting as long to catch that bus (that's at Riverside/96th) for say, SB service if you're somewhere south of 96th along Riverside, at least.... Compared to waiting at some point along Broadway along the route for a, say, SB bus that's in the GWB area - for reasons you've already mentioned.... Also, you would've been better off by generalizing (135th, northward) than specifying (135th to 172nd) to make the point.... Draws attention to the point I'm about to make, which is - It's not as simple as subtracting 96 & 59 and applying the same logic; 135th to 172nd is still a shorter distance.... 2) While I get the rationalization, realize those are still excuses.... Possibly, but I don't think addressing bunching was even a concern in splitting the route.... Embarrassing that it took this much time for this agency to realize the route was too long for its own good.... Yeah, It's troubling when we as NY'ers are exuding any level of a blahzay blah attitude about bunching, period (I myself am even guilty of this; excusing bunching on the more lower headway routes).... Even if it's intentionally or unintentionally done scheduling-wise with locals to LTD's (for routes that have LTD service, that is)..... IDK if this practice is being done on routes with SBS' though (SBS' to locals); haven't stopped to notice..... 1) That's what I was trying to say, more or less (so it was more of a misuse of words there). 2) I understand, and while I know that bus bunching will always persist, I do believe that bus bunching on the amount of routes that it does occur on (especially on routes with rather high headways), it is unacceptable. I feel that morale of BO's and management, with bus service being modified and screwed up, as well as outside factors may have to do as to why buses run like utter crap (SC routes, mainly the express routes being a notable example of this). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JubaionBx12+SBS Posted January 22, 2017 Share #141 Posted January 22, 2017 I'm just gonna leave this here If the Whitestone Bridge wasn't blocked or at a standstill there's no excuse for that. What is your opinion regarding the Q44 and what is your Plan B when the route screws up? I just like interjecting with Bx12 news whenever I can (hence answering B35's question I didn't understand) becuase I feel that outside of Paulrivera and I ranting about it on here, the route is being generally ignored which is ridiculous for one carrying as well as it does. From there i'm not shocked in the slightest that other routes are the hot messes they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 22, 2017 Share #142 Posted January 22, 2017 If the Whitestone Bridge wasn't blocked or at a standstill there's no excuse for that. What is your opinion regarding the Q44 and what is your Plan B when the route screws up? I just like interjecting with Bx12 news whenever I can (hence answering B35's question I didn't understand) becuase I feel that outside of Paulrivera and I ranting about it on here, the route is being generally ignored which is ridiculous for one carrying as well as it does. From there i'm not shocked in the slightest that other routes are the hot messes they are. Sorry, but the Bx12 isn't any better than any other route. Bus service is a mess all over. I'm staying in Riverdale this weekend, and coming home on the BxM2, I saw the 19:00 bus was a good 40 minutes late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 22, 2017 Share #143 Posted January 22, 2017 Sorry, but the Bx12 isn't any better than any other route. Bus service is a mess all over. I'm staying in Riverdale this weekend, and coming home on the BxM2, I saw the 19:00 bus was a good 40 minutes late. If the Bx12 was so immaculate, there wouldn't be a need for 2 people on here to rant about it as much as they have, with the issues they say the route has.... That's just common sense.... I would be a fool to sit up here & tout how damn great the B46 is, based on the ridership it gets - compared to the other bus routes that doesn't get similar levels of utilization.... I don't know if the diversion of the M7 and M104 routes from Broadway had anything to do with a decrease in ridership/lack of ridership. They are more frequent, are 24/7, and cover the busier parts of the route. The M104 could replace the M20 (part of it), but I would run it to at least Christopher or Spring Streets (for connections to from the M8 or the M21). For the M55, it's obvious ridership won't be the same as the old M5 portion (besides the overlap, although that accounts for a very few amount of people who could take the M5/55 interchangeably like that). I feel that the M1 extension will take loads away from the M55 too (from the people who wait on 5th Avenue going south of E. 8 Street. So the "bare-bones" service will eventually more or less reflect ridership loads. Instead of having this route, I was thinking of having the M7 cover the M55 route instead, except that it would take Greenwich, to 8 Street, to Broadway, and then down to the Ferry (southbound only, as the NB route would be the same as the M55). However, that would be a long route (IDK how close in length to the M5, but it appears to be close), and the M7 has reliability problems as it is, given that it goes through Columbus Circle & Times Square, which leads to delays and bus bunching. Another option could an M1 full time extension to South Ferry, since the M1 is not as long as the M7 (the M1 has a straighter and more direct route to Midtown and the Chelsea/Union Square area, compared to the M7). The routing won't be exactly identical as the M55 or the old M6, but will carry riders past 44th Street from points South (although the M1 could run up on 6th and turn at either 32, 38, 44, or 57 Street to go to Madison Avenue). It would be ideal for tourists and those riding from Midtown and South. However, that route would also be long, and likely decrease service reliability (resembles the old M10). Or they could just extend the M5 to Houston, extend the M1 to Worth Street, discontinue the M55, and reroute the M20 down Broadway/Church south of 14 Street. BPC has its own shuttle to the Ferry already, and preserves some service in the Downtown area. Side Note: Anyone noticed that the M104 has a Friday only trip, departing PABT at 11:15 PM? The things that affected the M7's usage was the truncation from Union Sq. & the diversion off Broadway (The M6/M7 used to be that combo along Broadway)... I wouldn't run the M7 south of 14th, but I would run back it to Union Sq. if at all feasible (which is the problem, which was the same thing that did the M9 in from ending in the area)..... The M104 lost ridership, due to the fact it no longer "borrowed" riders from off the M42.... I was one of the few along these parts that agreed with the removal of the route along 42nd.... I would've rather had the M104 pan southward to partially take the place of the M20, over having it run along 42nd st east of TSQ (the M42 never really needed a supplement, just better service for the most part).... I could understand running it down to Christopher to perhaps end with the M8 over on West st (to alleviate a lot of the "distance" walking going on), but to have it connect to the M21 would have it subjected to too much of the Holland Tunnel traffic (which I'd want it to avoid)..... The M1 extension, yeah, I believe it's going to take riders from off the M103 as well (as I said in another thread yesterday).... M104 friday only trip @ 11:15? Wonder what that's about.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted January 22, 2017 Share #144 Posted January 22, 2017 - This particular guess is predicated on something I've noticed on my last couple M12 rides..... I notice that Quill op's from the north take the M12 to the depot.... I notice that you also have op's taking the M12 to 34th..... Didn't think anything of it at the time... Funny how the M12 is used as an unofficial employee shuttle.... So I'm thinking you have ops that are taking 34 SBS' to do the M55..... I'd take my chances with 34th st over 42nd too if I were trying to get to the east side from that far west... Chances of catching *a bus* is greater with 34th, over 42nd.... Traffic tends to be worse along 42nd, to boot..... - It may also have to do with limiting the amt. of layover time along a side street like 44th - which raises the question of why 44th is a terminal in the first place.... The thing is, do the people creating the shifts for the B/Os actually take that into consideration? Also, short runtime, and within that runtime, they also have to allow time for the B/Os to relieve each other. I guess not surprising considering how cheap they've been with the route in general. IIRC, wasn't it supposed to end at 37th or somewhere south of 44th originally, but the community pressured the MTA for a greater overlap? Yes, the M5 was supposed to end at 37th, and M55 was supposed to end at 38th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstar1 Posted January 22, 2017 Share #145 Posted January 22, 2017 I think M1 should've either went back to South Ferry or go to City Hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted January 22, 2017 Share #146 Posted January 22, 2017 I think M1 should've either went back to South Ferry or go to City Hall. Worth Street is literally a short walk from City Hall though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAlam Posted January 22, 2017 Share #147 Posted January 22, 2017 If the Whitestone Bridge wasn't blocked or at a standstill there's no excuse for that. What is your opinion regarding the Q44 and what is your Plan B when the route screws up? I just like interjecting with Bx12 news whenever I can (hence answering B35's question I didn't understand) becuase I feel that outside of Paulrivera and I ranting about it on here, the route is being generally ignored which is ridiculous for one carrying as well as it does. From there i'm not shocked in the slightest that other routes are the hot messes they are. I don't take the Q44 I take the Q20. The Q20 however is the plan B for most Q44 riders. I think M1 should've either went back to South Ferry or go to City Hall. It would be nice to share the terminal with the M103. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 22, 2017 Share #148 Posted January 22, 2017 The thing is, do the people creating the shifts for the B/Os actually take that into consideration? Also, short runtime, and within that runtime, they also have to allow time for the B/Os to relieve each other. I guess not surprising considering how cheap they've been with the route in general. I'd imagine it's up to the b/o's to get to whatever relief point (in this case, since we're not talking about a b/o starting a trip directly from the(ir) depot) they have to, to start a trip on whatever route they have to, on time - by any means necessary.... In other words, I seriously doubt whatever methods a b/o takes to get to a relief point (even if it's via MTA's own buses & subways) is factored in by HR, some mgr, or whoever's in charge of keeping tabs on each person's shift..... I have been on more than my fair share of buses where b/o's finished their shifts, waited well over 10 mins. for another b/o to show up, to no avail....Rather embarrassing for the b/o that's supposed to get to a particular relief point around w/e timeframe, late like that..... Not like I'm incriminating any particular person by saying this, but I can remember on 2 occasions where the b/o's that finished their shifts just left the bus unattended after waiting for a certain amt. of time.... This wasn't recent or anything, but oddly, both instances happened in Queens.... side note: I wonder if there's some resource out there compiled by someone that has a listing of any/all relief points..... I think M1 should've either went back to South Ferry or go to City Hall. I'd be surprised if it went back to S. Ferry with the M55 they got going there (thanks to the M5 split) now.... The question I have is, on what "end" of Worth st will buses terminate at? Closer to Bowery (where there's an existing WB M22 stop), or closer to Centre.... If it's the latter, then that's practically City Hall..... If it's the former, you'd have a point.... I'm not too fond Worth/Bowery as a terminal, even if it's part time..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 22, 2017 Share #149 Posted January 22, 2017 If the Bx12 was so immaculate, there wouldn't be a need for 2 people on here to rant about it as much as they have, with the issues they say the route has.... That's just common sense.... I would be a fool to sit up here & tout how damn great the B46 is, based on the ridership it gets - compared to the other bus routes that doesn't get similar levels of utilization.... My thing is this constant complaining about the Bx12 as if it's immune to all of the other issues plaguing buses around the city... It isn't. I wonder if the same tune would be sung if the Bx12 was more reliable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted January 23, 2017 Share #150 Posted January 23, 2017 I'd imagine it's up to the b/o's to get to whatever relief point (in this case, since we're not talking about a b/o starting a trip directly from the(ir) depot) they have to, to start a trip on whatever route they have to, on time - by any means necessary.... In other words, I seriously doubt whatever methods a b/o takes to get to a relief point (even if it's via MTA's own buses & subways) is factored in by HR, some mgr, or whoever's in charge of keeping tabs on each person's shift..... I have been on more than my fair share of buses where b/o's finished their shifts, waited well over 10 mins. for another b/o to show up, to no avail....Rather embarrassing for the b/o that's supposed to get to a particular relief point around w/e timeframe, late like that..... Not like I'm incriminating any particular person by saying this, but I can remember on 2 occasions where the b/o's that finished their shifts just left the bus unattended after waiting for a certain amt. of time.... This wasn't recent or anything, but oddly, both instances happened in Queens.... side note: I wonder if there's some resource out there compiled by someone that has a listing of any/all relief points..... I guess it depends on where the report location is. I've been familiarizing myself with the FLSA lately, and the different ins and outs, so according to the rules, if the B/O has to punch in and out from the depot itself, then they have to be paid for any time spent traveling to/from the relief location. So if they report to Quill Depot at say, 5PM, and get to 5th & 31st at 5:20PM, they still have to be paid for starting their shift at 5PM. If the run sheet says to go straight to 5th & 31st at 5:20PM (and maybe call a dispatcher or something to let them know what time they arrived at 5th & 31st) then they only have to be paid for starting their shift at 5:20PM. In other words, they have to be paid for any travel time once they're on the clock, even if they're not physically driving a bus. And taking a bus/subway vs. using an MTA car or walking would affect how long it actually takes to get to the relief point from the depot (and whether they can actually make it on time. If the sheet says to report at 5PM and they tell the B/O to start a trip at 5:05PM from a point 2 miles from the depot, well, that's not happening) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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