The Mysterious Nassau Street Line

[YankeesPwnMets]

Well, NIMBYism has its positives and negatives. As recently as the 1960s there was a plan to build a highway between the Holland Tunnel and Williamsburg/Manhattan Bridges. NIMBYism is the reason why neighborhoods such as Soho, Chinatown and the Lower East Side still exist. Canal Street is still a clusterf**k and I could probably walk the length of Canal St twice before a theoretical Canal St Crosstown bus makes a single trip, but I don't think you will find any NYer today who believes that highway should've been built. 

 

Meanwhile, if go up the Northeast coast you will find a lot of wealthy people in coastal communities who oppose the development of wind farms because the turbines would block their view to the ocean *rolls eyes*

 

And then there are the NIMBYs who say something like:

 

"oh-ma-gawd I can't believe the doesn't go to Bayside"

*proposal to expand 7 is introduced* 

"don't even think about trying to build that"

[RR503]

I think there needs to be a middle ground. Take Moses's most infamous project, for example: the CBX. West Farms knew the highway couldn't be stopped, so they suggested a slight reroute in which the CBX would bear due west after interchanging with the Sheridan, and go through the northern end of Crotona park. This would have saved the homes of thousands, but Moses, ever self righteous, didn't listen and actually ridiculed them. Many will argue (I'm getting the flame suit on already) that the CBX was unnecessary, but let's face it, it was. In the age of the auto, there needs/needed to be a quick cross Bronx route, and a way for through I 95 traffic to avoid mingling with Triboro bridge flows. The CBX, despite its undeniable failings, was a necessary piece of infrastructure, and in this day and age, it would never have been built. NIMBYs are too powerful, and too empowered. Instead of pandering to every interest group along every mega project, we should take their constructive criticism -- like what I illustrated above -- and build it that way. Only if they can offer a real, facts based reason (not CURESesque) that the project is unnecessary, should the project be reconsidered.

And anyway, ususally transit planners know more than neighborhood dwellers.

 

If none of what I'm saying makes sense, I'm tired.

[LTA1992]

Well, NIMBYism has its positives and negatives. As recently as the 1960s there was a plan to build a highway between the Holland Tunnel and Williamsburg/Manhattan Bridges. NIMBYism is the reason why neighborhoods such as Soho, Chinatown and the Lower East Side still exist. Canal Street is still a clusterf**k and I could probably walk the length of Canal St twice before a theoretical Canal St Crosstown bus makes a single trip, but I don't think you will find any NYer today who believes that highway should've been built.

 

Meanwhile, if go up the Northeast coast you will find a lot of wealthy people in coastal communities who oppose the development of wind farms because the turbines would block their view to the ocean *rolls eyes*

 

And then there are the NIMBYs who say something like:

 

"oh-ma-gawd I can't believe the doesn't go to Bayside"

*proposal to expand 7 is introduced*

"don't even think about trying to build that"

Funny how you mention the LES and Chinatown surviving. When a good portion of both neighborhoods were victims of the above mentioned Slum Clearance Programs that Moses was a part of. Those projects and other building complexes are a result of that. What Skipper said goes beyond roads. Transit improvements are not like demolishing entire blocks to build towers for a disappearing Middle Class or an expressway that will eventually only serve to exacerbate a growing traffic and environmental problem. Transit does wonders for the areas served.

 

The main issue is that everyone wants a subway, just not built at their front doors.

 

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[CenSin]

The main issue is that everyone wants a subway, just not built at their front doors.

I would be very pleased to have a subway station built right in front of my house.

[LTA1992]

I would be very pleased to have a subway station built right in front of my house.

I meant to rephrase that and got distracted lol. What I was thinking in my head is everyone wants a subway, as long as the construction isn't happening at their front door.

 

Not using the word "everyone" literally here.

 

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[RR503]

I would be very pleased to have a subway station built right in front of my house.

Also remember who you are, and then remember that most of the world isn't into trains.

 

Semantically, your point is valid, but generally....have perspective.

[Porter]

I'm going to lay down an uncomfortable truth at your feet: New York City wouldn't have been the urban and architectural marvel it is today without grandiose plans that have stepped on people's livelihoods, even if unfairly. The truth is, had all of our current relevant laws been in place from the beginning, NYC would today be a completely neutered and underwhelming city. Previous generations suffered so that future generations could have nice things.

 

Giant, over-the-top, and arrogantly bold legacy projects like the WTC's twin towers, the Rockefeller Center, Time Warner Center, Hudson Yards, Central Park, etc, are what make New York City New York City (in my opinion). They're places for the public to enjoy. I would hate to live in a city with only purely utilitarian housing and office structures.

[bobtehpanda]

I'm going to lay down an uncomfortable truth at your feet: New York City wouldn't have been the urban and architectural marvel it is today without grandiose plans that have stepped on people's livelihoods, even if unfairly. The truth is, had all of our current relevant laws been in place from the beginning, NYC would today be a completely neutered and underwhelming city. Previous generations suffered so that future generations could have nice things.

 

Giant, over-the-top, and arrogantly bold legacy projects like the WTC's twin towers, the Rockefeller Center, Time Warner Center, Hudson Yards, Central Park, etc, are what make New York City New York City (in my opinion). They're places for the public to enjoy. I would hate to live in a city with only purely utilitarian housing and office structures.

 

Not really. As shown by One Vanderbilt, 432 Park, Hudson Yards, etc., it is entirely possible to build without crushing minority or working-class neighborhoods within the constraints of today's legal framework. In fact most architectural marvels were built without the use of eminent domain. Even 30 Rock and Time Warner Center was built without it, and TWC had its height revised downwards due to community opposition and lawsuits.

 

The point about the other projects is that they had a purpose. WTC was expressly designed to revitalize Lower Manhattan. Central Park was built to give Manhattan a breathing space. Rebuilding Nassau St is a solution looking for a problem that doesn't really exist, and it wouldn't really take out a working class neighborhood, it would take out the current seat of government in New York with all the cost that would entail.