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Express N tunnel will shut for one year of emergency repairs

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http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/40/4/br-express-subway-tunnel-collapsing-2017-01-27-bk.html

 

 

Express N tunnel will shut for one year of emergency repairs

 

br-express-subway-tunnel-collapsing-2017

Marc A. Hermann

Going dark: The express tunnel between 36th and 59th streets will close for repairs next year. Here’s what the water-damaged Montague Tubes (a little further down the line) looked like before repairs in 2014.

 

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority will shut the express subway tunnel between 36th and 59th street stations for a full year starting in spring of next year to repair rusted beams that are at risk of collapsing, according to members of Community Board 7.

 

Storm water has corroded the so-called “T beams” that support the tunnel, and workers must replace the buttresses between 40th and 58th streets, according to board members familiar with the plan.

 

The shutdown will be an inconvenience for straphangers, but the work is critical, because the tunnel is in such bad shape, according Community Board 7 transportation committee chairman Zachary Jasie, who met with transit officials on Jan. 10 and gave a report during the board’s Jan. 18 general meeting.

 

“This is work that needs to be done — that’s the bottom line. There’s profound deterioration of the center support structure of the tunnel for these 18 blocks. There is no choice in the matter, because it’s going to cave in on itself,” said Jasie.

 

A spokesman for the authority denied that the agency is telling community board members that the tunnel is in such bad shape.

 

“Unbelievable. Where do you guys get this stuff, or do you just make it up along the way?” said agency spokesman Kevin Ortiz. “The tunnel is NOT on the verge of ‘caving in’ as you so eloquently state, and there is no danger to our customers.”

 

Over the years, street-resurfacing projects on Fourth Avenue have raised the roadbed in such a way that rain water now runs into subway grates instead of sewer drains — and that errant flow has rusted underground beams, said Jasie.

 

As part of the tunnel work — which is set to run from May 2018 to May 2019 — transit workers will also install new drains and raise the sidewalk vents to prevent water from spilling into the subway, according to community board members.

 

Work will take place eight blocks at a time in four-month intervals and will require the city to close a lane of Bay Ridge-bound traffic, said Jasie. The Department of Transportation has agreed to place traffic agents along the construction to help drivers navigate the roads, he said. N trains will run on the local line during the year-long project, according to Jasie.

 

Locals are concerned that the lengthy construction will place strain on the R line and result in sluggish service, but one community leader emphasized the need for the decaying line’s repairs.

 

“This is 100-year-old infrastructure we’re dealing with,” said Daniel Murphy, chairman of Community Board 7. “This is sorely needed.”

 

Reach reporter Caroline Spivack at cspivack@cnglocal.com or by calling (718) 260–2523. Follow her on Twitter @carolinespivack. Posted 12:00 am, January 20, 2017

 

 

 

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lol... Well if Kevin Ortiz doesn't like what CB7 said about the situation, maybe he should set the record straight with real proof instead of just rebuking the claims.

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Lmfao and they couldn't fix the beams whenever the (N) was on West End? If this was so "important" they should of sent the uptown (N) via West End full-time.

 

Next on BSTA: due to structural issues at Chambers Street, no (J) service between Essex Street and Broad Street for 1 year.

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Lmfao and they couldn't fix the beams whenever the (N) was on West End? If this was so "important" they should of sent the uptown (N) via West End full-time.

 

Next on BSTA: due to structural issues at Chambers Street, no (J) service between Essex Street and Broad Street for 1 year.

 

You forget that the community has been screaming about the unsanitary conditions along the Sea Beach Line.

 

The community would also be screaming if they were doing this while impacting the already horrible (R) line service.

Edited by Cait Sith

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You forget that the community has been screaming about the unsanitary conditions along the Sea Beach Line.

 

The community would also be screaming if they were doing this while impacting the already horrible (R) line service.

 

This is more than likely why they took it to CB7.

Yes but even so weekends and nights are supposed to be times where you supposed to get as much repairs as necessary. I get that maybe there are not enough workers to followup on Sea Beach and 4th Avenue, but if the tunnels were as bad as the community board said then that means the MTA needs to double check the system and be sure every line is running smoothly.

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Yes but even so weekends and nights are supposed to be times where you supposed to get as much repairs as necessary. I get that maybe there are not enough workers to followup on Sea Beach and 4th Avenue, but if the tunnels were as bad as the community board said then that means the MTA needs to double check the system and be sure every line is running smoothly.

 

Which is true. Late nights are the most optimal times to get the work done if possible. However, if its gonna span out for a long period of time, you wont really get much done out of it within those short spans.

 

I'm just interested in how the community board knows about how severe the problems are.

Edited by Cait Sith

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I guess if it's necessary, but at the same time, it's one more thing to impact (R) service since you'll have the (N) merging with the (R) at 59th, only to merge with the (D) at 36th.

 

On the bright side, at least we won't have to play that guessing game at 59th as to whether it's better to get off there for the (N) or stay on until 36th to have the option of both the (D) & (N) express.

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Is this work in addition to the closing of some R stations and is to be done at the same time as that work is supposed to be done?

I remember reading about that work and the request for bus service from Bay Ridge Avenue to 59th Street while the entire station is closed for six months (Bay News January 7-13  . 2017 pp. 4-18 and most likely in other local papers as well).

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Is this work in addition to the closing of some R stations and is to be done at the same time as that work is supposed to be done?

I remember reading about that work and the request for bus service from Bay Ridge Avenue to 59th Street while the entire station is closed for six months (Bay News January 7-13  . 2017 pp. 4-18 and most likely in other local papers as well).

 

The B9 already covers the area from Bay Ridge Avenue to 59th. If anything, that's the best station to close from an alternatives perspective.

 

If I lived in that area around Bay Ridge Avenue & Shore Road, I'd personally just stay on the B9 to 59th as my commute, as opposed to taking the B9- (R)- (N).

Edited by checkmatechamp13

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“Unbelievable. Where do you guys get this stuff, or do you just make it up along the way?” said agency spokesman Kevin Ortiz. 

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

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Is this work in addition to the closing of some R stations and is to be done at the same time as that work is supposed to be done?

I remember reading about that work and the request for bus service from Bay Ridge Avenue to 59th Street while the entire station is closed for six months (Bay News January 7-13  . 2017 pp. 4-18 and most likely in other local papers as well).

 

I think its separate from the Bay Ridge Avenue work.

 

As for the ridiculous call for shuttle buses between Bay Ridge Avenue and 59th Street, the B9 is already there on 4th Avenue, the B63 is one block east on 5th Avenue and for those on the fringe between Bay Ridge and Dyker Heights, theres also the B70 to 8th Avenue  (N) station.

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I think its separate from the Bay Ridge Avenue work.

 

As for the ridiculous call for shuttle buses between Bay Ridge Avenue and 59th Street, the B9 is already there on 4th Avenue, the B63 is one block east on 5th Avenue and for those on the fringe between Bay Ridge and Dyker Heights, theres also the B70 to 8th Avenue  (N) station.

What's exactly ridiculous about it?  You have communities with high elderly and disabled populations...

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B9 runs on 60th Street. The Sea Beach stations are all >60th from 8ave to Bay Parkway, especially for New Utrecht, 18, 20, and Bay Parkway where they are on 63, 63, 64, and 66. Some people would have to walk a much longer distance for B9, compare to now for (N).

In addition, B9 could not take that many people if they shut down the entire Sea Beach. So a new bus line does not sound crazy at all if Sea Beach is shut down.

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What's exactly ridiculous about it? You have communities with high elderly and disabled populations...

It's ridiculous because the B9 already follows the (R) between 59 St (well 60 St), and Bay Ridge Av. A shuttle bus would be redundant.
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B9 runs on 60th Street. The Sea Beach stations are all >60th from 8ave to Bay Parkway, especially for New Utrecht, 18, 20, and Bay Parkway where they are on 63, 63, 64, and 66. Some people would have to walk a much longer distance for B9, compare to now for (N).

In addition, B9 could not take that many people if they shut down the entire Sea Beach. So a new bus line does not sound crazy at all if Sea Beach is shut down.

 

We're talking about the Bay Ridge Avenue closure...

 

What's exactly ridiculous about it?  You have communities with high elderly and disabled populations...

Yeah and they can just stay on the bus to 59th Street instead of getting off at Bay Ridge Avenue. There's no need for a shuttle bus.

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The MTA website has been listing delays on the B/9 due to the N Line station closure since it started last year. The headway on the B/9 has been reduced during rush hours as it has had an increased ridership from the N Line. The B/9 cannot handle it alone and neither the B/37 nor the B/63 cannot help as both routes are one long block from the stations. What do you do with the B/64 passengers even though it is a ghost of a route as compared with years ago?

The request for bus service has merit and it should be considered by the MTA even if it only for six months.

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I guess if it's necessary, but at the same time, it's one more thing to impact (R) service since you'll have the (N) merging with the (R) at 59th, only to merge with the (D) at 36th.

 

On the bright side, at least we won't have to play that guessing game at 59th as to whether it's better to get off there for the (N) or stay on until 36th to have the option of both the (D) & (N) express.

There’s another guessing game that is currently being played: will the (N) get to 36 Street first or the (R)? If you need the (D), sometimes the (N) will stall at 59 Street for extra long while the (R) goes ahead. Other times, the (N) will pretend to stall but leave 10 seconds after, meaning the (N) will get there first, and then the (D), and then the (R) which misses the connection with the (D).

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The MTA website has been listing delays on the B/9 due to the N Line station closure since it started last year. The headway on the B/9 has been reduced during rush hours as it has had an increased ridership from the N Line. The B/9 cannot handle it alone and neither the B/37 nor the B/63 cannot help as both routes are one long block from the stations. What do you do with the B/64 passengers even though it is a ghost of a route as compared with years ago?

The request for bus service has merit and it should be considered by the MTA even if it only for six months.

 

I take the B9, B64 and  (R) train regularly. Bay Ridge Avenue is my home station. Believe me when I say there is no need for a shuttle bus and said service would be empty if it were ever implemented. People will learn pretty quickly to just take the B9 to 59th Street or walk.

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The (N) will probably help (R) service more than hurt it. Doesn't this mean extra service for 4th ave service?

 

This means extra local service at 53rd Street & 45th Street. However, this introduces an extra merge at 59th Street northbound & 36th Street southbound (and in both cases, it's before the station, which means that some passengers needing to transfer between the lines are going to be screwed because passengers from the train in the back won't be able to transfer to the train in the front)

 

There’s another guessing game that is currently being played: will the  (N) get to 36 Street first or the  (R)? If you need the  (D), sometimes the  (N) will stall at 59 Street for extra long while the  (R) goes ahead. Other times, the  (N) will pretend to stall but leave 10 seconds after, meaning the  (N) will get there first, and then the  (D), and then the  (R) which misses the connection with the  (D).

 

Thinking of it again, in some ways it takes the stress out of playing the guessing game....but at the same time your transfer fate is entirely decided by the MTA at that point. If your R train gets to 59th in front of the N, you'll make your connection (but any N riders who need to get to Park Slope are SOL) And vice versa if the N train pulls in first. And then you consider how the D lines up with it (do both trains connect with it or just the lead train)

 

Now if the MTA actually communicated effectively with its passengers about its intentions (whether it intended to let the N get ahead of the D at 36th, and whether passengers at 59th should choose the N or R), there would be no guessing game and the current situation actually would be optimal.

 

The MTA website has been listing delays on the B/9 due to the N Line station closure since it started last year. The headway on the B/9 has been reduced during rush hours as it has had an increased ridership from the N Line. The B/9 cannot handle it alone and neither the B/37 nor the B/63 cannot help as both routes are one long block from the stations. What do you do with the B/64 passengers even though it is a ghost of a route as compared with years ago?

The request for bus service has merit and it should be considered by the MTA even if it only for six months.

 

If somebody already lives around 3rd Avenue or 5th Avenue, then they can take those routes straight up to 60th Street and walk over to the 59th Street station, as opposed to walking to Bay Ridge & 4th and catching the train there. As for the B9, it's one station worth of passengers, and I'm sure some of those passengers are already riding it out to 60th anyway to catch the (N) directly.

 

B64 passengers east of 4th Avenue (since west of there, there's already the B9 as an alternative) can either walk to the (N), or take a north-south bus (such as the B16 or B70) up to the (N) train.

Edited by checkmatechamp13

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It's ridiculous because the B9 already follows the (R) between 59 St (well 60 St), and Bay Ridge Av. A shuttle bus would be redundant.

  

We're talking about the Bay Ridge Avenue closure...

 

 

Yeah and they can just stay on the bus to 59th Street instead of getting off at Bay Ridge Avenue. There's no need for a shuttle bus.

Because the B9 is oh so reliable... This closure will mean longer commutes. Having a dedicated shuttle bus could alleviate such delays if done right.

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Seeing how the TA is not officially confirming this report, shouldn't we wait before speculating? I doubt the Community Board has been inside the tunnel doing actual structural inspections, so I take their claims with a grain large rock of salt.

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  Because the B9 is oh so reliable... This closure will mean longer commutes. Having a dedicated shuttle bus could alleviate such delays if done right.

 

Well, if you're already on the bus, I'd say staying on the bus is a better bet than transferring to a shuttle bus to just travel one stop.

 

And if somebody who lives right by the affected station and alternate bus route says it's sufficient, I'd put some stock into it. Just saying.....

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Well, if you're already on the bus, I'd say staying on the bus is a better bet than transferring to a shuttle bus to just travel one stop.

 

And if somebody who lives right by the affected station and alternate bus route says it's sufficient, I'd put some stock into it. Just saying.....

Since when does one person speak for the needs of an entire community?  You of all people should know that doesn't quite work. Just saying...

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Since when does one person speak for the needs of an entire community?  You of all people should know that doesn't quite work. Just saying...

 

Me of all people? You're talking to somebody who was offered a position on the Transportation Committee of my community board (I had to decline because I couldn't fit it into my schedule. Not to mention it was unpaid). I'm constantly getting emails from board members talking about "Heads up, I emailed the MTA rep regarding this issue, and they responded with such and such. What do you think about it?"

 

So if a person makes well-reasoned arguments, and knows a lot about the topic at hand, I would find it reasonable for them to speak for the needs of the entire community. He lives in the area and uses the (R) and B9 enough to make a reasonable assessment of the reliability of those routes that, until I can get solid evidence from another reasonable person that the B9 is unreliable enough that a separate shuttle is necessary, I will take his word for it that the B9 is sufficient. 

Edited by checkmatechamp13
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