MTA holds out hope for more buses

[Hound]

I don't see the point. I don't know if you're familiar with the area, but Broadway runs on a hill, and west of Broadway are massive hills leading up to Henry Hudson Parkway and then Riverdale Avenue. Riverdale has the highest elevation in New York City so that limits what streets can be used, in addition to Fieldston being a private neighborhood of Riverdale (similar to Forest Hills Gardens in Queens). The issue here is how to get more service to South Riverdale (Spuyten Duyvil). If the neighborhood weren't so hilly you could get rid of the Bx20. I would be inclined to extend some Bx1 buses up to 246th and Henry Hudson Parkway. They could turn around with the Bx20 where Fieldston (another subsection of Riverdale) begins. Really, the best solution is to put artics on some Bx10's and have more Northbound buses start at 231st. The Bx1 used to run up the hill, but was cut back, and I understand why. It can be pretty unreliable.

 

Anything running through Fieldston is out. It's the wealthiest part of Riverdale, and they would raise hell and block any buses running through there.

Didn't the old BX 24 run through & turn around in Fieldston?

[B35 via Church]

They did use some articulated D60s a few times in PM rush on the Bx7 a few months ago, but apparently artics aren't placed on the Bx7 anymore.

The point being made in the article about 'small buses' has more to do with interior layout; Orion 7s and NewFlyer LFS 40-footers have a less efficient interior layout than the RTS, Orion V or even D40LF for that matter.  Downright chaotic compared to the older buses, actually.  I wouldn't bet on the MTA buying more used O5s from BeeLines though lmao...

 

The Bx10 has had underlying service problems going back at least to the turn of the millennium, but those problems were exacerbated when the RTSes and Orion Vs were replaced with the Orion VIIs, from what I've heard anyway. 

(On a map, the route takes more twists and turns than it should, but let's not forget that the O7s are pretty mediocre compared to their predecessors.)

 

As for the Bx20, the reason ridership appears to be dropping is because of the MTA's reluctant attitude toward that line.  When they first proposed the service cuts a few years back, they wanted to get rid of the Bx20 entirely.  The only reason they kept the Bx20 was because of community opposition, which was enough to prevent wholesale elimination, but didn't stop the MTA from reducing the Bx20 to what is basically a rush-hour shuttle that makes barely a handful of trips.  The MTA has made the 20 largely dependent on the 7 in terms of schedule and equipment (occasional Bx7 short-turns at Isham become Bx20 put-ins northbound), and the scheduled runs are so spotty that most of them don't even show up on BusTime.

Pre-2010, the line had a lot more riders: people do want to get from the Bronx to 207th on the  , but not if it means waiting 20+ minutes for a bus that might not even show up anyway.  Maybe when the MTA stops deliberately sabotaging the line, things will improve.  The current Bx20 makes the Q39 look reliable...

Exactly how I see matters, regarding the Bx10 & the Bx20..... As long as the Bx10's usage continues to be as weak as it is east of Jerome, Riverdalians aint goin be seeing any service increases on the route.... It takes a lot for the MTA to 1] justify & 2] consider increasing service (without robbing poor peter... cottontail, that is) & very little to do so to consider taking away service from some area.....

 

Putting artics on the Bx10 would decimate its service levels... If I was a Riverdalian, that would be the last thing I would be hoping for.... It's a short-sighted solution....

 

The better option for the masses is to increase service on the Bx20 - but they won't do that, since they can (well, already have) use the existences of the Bx7 & the Bx10 as scapegoats.... Sucks to say, but Riverdalians are assed out in this scenario; the MTA have their excuses... bases... excuses, covered.....

 

I'd have to say that the mere existence of the Bx20 these days is as so, out of spite.... There are other routes that are living on borrowed time as well, the way I see it.... To sum it up, there's no push to want to make it more usable.....

 

A vessel with no soul is simply a skeleton shrouded in flesh......

 

What about the BX9 I think it can handle split service north of 241st or just extend the current short turned buses

- Splitting service on the Bx9 north of the 1 would cause more problems than it would solve...

 

- The current short turns run between 225th & 262nd.... Extending them west would be one huge ass mid-route diversion.....

 

Another idea (if Bee Line would cooperate) is to extend the BL-8 down that route, so Riverdale Avenue residents (in Yonkers) don't have to make their way to Broadway to catch a bus to the .

Yeah, but that's one of the last things Bee Line should be doing with the BL-8... It's not Bee-Line's problem that there's no rail service that exists along Riverdale av..... Sucks to say, but someone has to get the short end of the stick; Broadway is simply a bigger draw than Riverdale av; it's also more centrally located, which doesn't help the Riverdale av folks..... Service could be much worse if Bee Line had the BL-1 simply continue down Riverdale av from Warburton......

 

Now if they were to have the BL-8 run down Broadway south of Getty Square, that would supply quite a bit of Yonkers patrons with a 1-seat ride to the subway (this is the benefit of the BL-2 over the BL-1 btw).... Doing as such with the BL-8 would even be a bigger benefit for Yonkers patrons over the BL-2 (which runs no further east than Park).....

 

Wait, how would they do the u-turn at the end of the route with artics? Is it possible, otherwise they would have to find a detour?

The same way they would with a 40 footer....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Grymes Hill is also higher in elevation than Riverdale, and people do use the S66 for the purpose of going up and down the hill. Contrary to what you think, Riverdale isn't the biggest neighborhood in every category. 

 

As far as more Bx20 service goes, it connects to the , which the Bx10 doesn't do. I mean, basically, with a similar amount of buses, do you want the extra service between 231st & 207th so that Spuyten Duyvil residents have access to the , or between 246th & 263rd? I really don't see the MTA going for both. 

We're not talking about Staten Island.  The topic is about Riverdale and how to address the needs of said community, not Grymes Hill.  Regarding your other question, I already stated the possibilities I would consider.  You're free to read them instead of lecturing me about what I already stated.

Exactly how I see matters, regarding the Bx10 & the Bx20..... As long as the Bx10's usage continues to be as weak as it is east of Jerome, Riverdalians aint goin be seeing any service increases on the route.... It takes a lot for the MTA to 1] justify & 2] consider increasing service (without robbing poor peter... cottontail, that is) & very little to do so to consider taking away service from some area.....

 

Putting artics on the Bx10 would decimate its service levels... If I was a Riverdalian, that would be the last thing I would be hoping for.... It's a short-sighted solution....

 

The better option for the masses is to increase service on the Bx20 - but they won't do that, since they can (well, already have) use the existences of the Bx7 & the Bx10 as scapegoats.... Sucks to say, but Riverdalians are assed out in this scenario; the MTA have their excuses... bases... excuses, covered.....

 

I'd have to say that the mere existence of the Bx20 these days is as so, out of spite.... There are other routes that are living on borrowed time as well, the way I see it.... To sum it up, there's no push to want to make it more usable.....

 

A vessel with no soul is simply a skeleton shrouded in flesh......

 

The same way they would with a 40 footer....

Folks are pushing for the artics because that's an easy way to deal with the capacity problem.  They (the ) doesn't want to address the bunching issue and they don't want to increase service, so you could run a few artics in some instances where overcrowding exists.  That would at least ensure that everyone can get on. I know what you're thinking but if you only have some artics here and there, I don't see the justification for service cuts.

[DetSMART45]

 

Folks are pushing for the artics because that's an easy way to deal with the capacity problem.  They (the ) doesn't want to address the bunching issue and they don't want to increase service, so you could run a few artics in some instances where overcrowding exists.  That would at least ensure that everyone can get on. I know what you're thinking but if you only have some artics here and there, I don't see the justification for service cuts.

This is what I just don't get about the MTA -- the inserting of artics based on the "need" basis, instead of some long list of "rules" that all must be answered YES before doing so.

 

Surely MetroCard activity through the farebox, by each bus and route, can provide some sort of indicator, which could also be backed-up by the countless labor hours spent by having road supervisors (or whatever title is assigned in your neck of the woods) toting clipboards and walkie-talkies.

 

The "nimbleness" of the MTA currently is somewhere back in the 1990s, given all of the technological advances and tools available/in use.  It's quite obvious that they don't even WANT to improve anything, especially if you can't alternate 40s and 60s to do something to not only relieve congestion, but to also get to some point of schedule reliability.

 

And they wonder why their customer base is frustrated and seeks out alternative ways to traverse the city, if financially possible (and even if those customers have to sacrifice along the way to do it as well). 

[B35 via Church]

Folks are pushing for the artics because that's an easy way to deal with the capacity problem.  They (the ) doesn't want to address the bunching issue and they don't want to increase service, so you could run a few artics in some instances where overcrowding exists.  That would at least ensure that everyone can get on. I know what you're thinking but if you only have some artics here and there, I don't see the justification for service cuts.

The MTA would (see the justification) though, that's the problem for you guys... While it's not as apparent as it used to be, the MTA still isn't as willy-nilly (as Bee-line is, for example) with their utilization of artics...

(I'm not buying the turn radius stuff as some sort of crutch, which is why I'm not even addressing it)

 

Anyway, the concern from Riverdalians would eventually turn into, why do only some of the buses have artics.....

How does the MTA respond to that, short of sticking their collective fingers in their ears going lalalalalalalala....

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Didn't the old BX 24 run through & turn around in Fieldston?

Technically no.

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/35732-1977-bronx-bus-map/

 

I found an old bus map that shows the old Bx24 and the Bx10.  What they did was run via Henry Hudson Parkway, and Northbound, they would turn off on West 253rd street.  That is technically right on the Fieldston border, and right on the border of the estate area.  They then took Fieldston Rd and terminated in North Riverdale at Mosholu Avenue.  That's really the only way they could go, as residents in the estate area would block buses from coming through as they have in the past when school buses went through the area.  They can enact such a rule at their discretion since the streets are indeed private, but they are usually only closed once a year or so to outside residents and traffic. You'll also notice that service was rather limited.  I live within walking distance of the estate area and you won't see much traffic.  The residents are probably the most anal about things being sleepy and quiet overall in Riverdale, and that's saying something, as it's the same thing where I live in Central Riverdale.

[DetSMART45]

 

The MTA would (see the justification) though, that's the problem for you guys... While it's not as apparent as it used to be, the MTA still isn't as willy-nilly (as Bee-line is, for example) with their utilization of artics...

(I'm not buying the turn radius stuff as some sort of crutch, which is why I'm not even addressing it)

 

Anyway, the concern from Riverdalians would eventually turn into, why do only some of the buses have artics.....

How does the MTA respond to that, short of sticking their collective fingers in their ears going lalalalalalalala....

 

The bolded would only be because the MTA has conditioned all of its riders that that's how things operate: either the route runs all 40s or all artics.

 

Plus the fact that you're also all conditioned to just expect that buses are going to be sardine cans; they come in 2s, 3s or 4s; and you should find yourself lucky to have one coming whenever it gets there.

 

You get what you pay for.

[B35 via Church]

This is what I just don't get about the MTA -- the inserting of artics based on the "need" basis, instead of some long list of "rules" that all must be answered YES before doing so.

 

Surely MetroCard activity through the farebox, by each bus and route, can provide some sort of indicator, which could also be backed-up by the countless labor hours spent by having road supervisors (or whatever title is assigned in your neck of the woods) toting clipboards and walkie-talkies.

 

The "nimbleness" of the MTA currently is somewhere back in the 1990s, given all of the technological advances and tools available/in use.  It's quite obvious that they don't even WANT to improve anything, especially if you can't alternate 40s and 60s to do something to not only relieve congestion, but to also get to some point of schedule reliability.

 

And they wonder why their customer base is frustrated and seeks out alternative ways to traverse the city, if financially possible (and even if those customers have to sacrifice along the way to do it as well). 

They don't look at it in a sense of, oh - the rider is paying the same 2.75, regardless of the capacity of the bus.... They look at it in the sense of, the 60' bus costed more than the 40' bus - so we will attempt to address necessary costs to run as many (or as little, depending on your vantage point) of these buses that we feel fit....

 

Purely monetary.

 

The concern of the rider isn't there; they're no different than any company that sees/treats its employees as robots & sees their customers as willing suckers that continue to utilize their services....

 

You want to gauge the measure of any one man or entity (in this case)? Adversely affect their pockets & see how they react.....

 

The bolded would only be because the MTA has conditioned all of its riders that that's how things operate: either the route runs all 40s or all artics.

 

Plus the fact that you're also all conditioned to just expect that buses are going to be sardine cans; they come in 2s, 3s or 4s; and you should find yourself lucky to have one coming whenever it gets there.

 

You get what you pay for.

If we were conditioned, we wouldn't have them as talking points... This wouldn't even be a thread.

 

The fact that buses are sardine cans & the expectation of them isn't a result of any conditioning by this agency... It's what happens when you have as many people "sardined" into one city where the culture of anti-public transportation isn't all that apparent....

 

I can agree that the MTA wants to condition us to see things... their way.

Real people have real commutes to obtain the same real dollars they need in order to live & function in this country.... so, they can forget about that, if that's the end goal... People will (and have) simply moved on from this city, with the waning quality of public transportation....

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

Artics really should run on most routes on an as need basis. During peak hours when buses are packed to the rafters you put artics in and maybe cut a 40 ft bus or two that are closely scheduled to the artic runs. Outside of that run 40 footers. Besides outside of routes like the Bx12 and M15 Select which ones need artics running the whole day?

[paulrivera]

The bolded would only be because the MTA has conditioned all of its riders that that's how things operate: either the route runs all 40s or all artics.

 

Plus the fact that you're also all conditioned to just expect that buses are going to be sardine cans; they come in 2s, 3s or 4s; and you should find yourself lucky to have one coming whenever it gets there.

 

You get what you pay for.

The M100 runs a mix of 40 and 60 footers all day long, and the Bx36 only runs artics during rush hours.

 

If they truly wanted to run artics to Riverdale, they could swap out the ones on the M100 to the Bx7 or 10 (they're all housed in the same depot so there's no big swap needed.) That way, all they'd really have to do is add a couple more  40-foot M100 runs to compensate and call it a day.

[checkmatechamp13]

We're not talking about Staten Island.  The topic is about Riverdale and how to address the needs of said community, not Grymes Hill.  

 

Alright, but if you're going to talk about the transportation issue, then talk about the transportation issue without the bragging about Riverdale (in this case, incorrectly). It does not have the highest elevation of any neighborhood of NYC, and it doesn't even have the highest elevation of any neighborhood where the residents use bus service to access the neighborhood (and actually, the highest point in Riverdale is in Fieldston, so as far as bus-using neighborhoods go, Washington Heights probably beats Riverdale in overall elevation, and the Bx7 runs through Washington Heights if you want to insist that what I'm saying is changing the topic more than you.

 

You want to say that Riverdale has a high elevation and narrow streets? Yes, it has a high elevation and narrow streets just like many other neighborhoods in NYC instead of....

 

.....Riverdale has the highest elevation in New York City so that limits what streets can be used.....

 

 

Yeah, but that's one of the last things Bee Line should be doing with the BL-8... It's not Bee-Line's problem that there's no rail service that exists along Riverdale av..... Sucks to say, but someone has to get the short end of the stick; Broadway is simply a bigger draw than Riverdale av; it's also more centrally located, which doesn't help the Riverdale av folks..... Service could be much worse if Bee Line had the BL-1 simply continue down Riverdale av from Warburton......

 

Now if they were to have the BL-8 run down Broadway south of Getty Square, that would supply quite a bit of Yonkers patrons with a 1-seat ride to the subway (this is the benefit of the BL-2 over the BL-1 btw).... Doing as such with the BL-8 would even be a bigger benefit for Yonkers patrons over the BL-2 (which runs no further east than Park).....

 

To be fair, they do have Ludlow in the general vicinity (which I guess is another strike against them for a one-seat bus ride to the subway).

 

I mean, I'll admit I'm in the camp of people who thinks that from a transportation perspective (i.e. Before people start with the whole argument about NYC tax dollars being spent to fund service that benefits Westchester residents), an extension of the Bx7 to Getty Square would provide better service along that part of Riverdale Avenue than the BL-8 presently does in terms of connectivity. But of course, that topic's been discussed before.....

 

BTW, for discussion purposes, out of the BL-1, BL-2, BL-5, BL-6, and BL-8, how would you rank them in terms of serving Yonkers residents looking for train service?

 

We're not talking about Staten Island.  The topic is about Riverdale and how to address the needs of said community, not Grymes Hill.  Regarding your other question, I already stated the possibilities I would consider.  You're free to read them instead of lecturing me about what I already stated.

Folks are pushing for the artics because that's an easy way to deal with the capacity problem.  They (the  ) doesn't want to address the bunching issue and they don't want to increase service, so you could run a few artics in some instances where overcrowding exists.  That would at least ensure that everyone can get on. I know what you're thinking but if you only have some artics here and there, I don't see the justification for service cuts.

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Alright, but if you're going to talk about the transportation issue, then talk about the transportation issue without the bragging about Riverdale (in this case, incorrectly). It does not have the highest elevation of any neighborhood of NYC, and it doesn't even have the highest elevation of any neighborhood where the residents use bus service to access the neighborhood (and actually, the highest point in Riverdale is in Fieldston, so as far as bus-using neighborhoods go, Washington Heights probably beats Riverdale in overall elevation, and the Bx7 runs through Washington Heights if you want to insist that what I'm saying is changing the topic more than you.

 

You want to say that Riverdale has a high elevation and narrow streets? Yes, it has a high elevation and narrow streets just like many other neighborhoods in NYC instead of....

 

Who in the hell cares?  The point being made is that the hilly topography makes commuting difficult and tedious, period.  Looking at a map won't tell the whole story.  A neighborhood's hilly geography is nothing to "brag" about.  Your behavior is incredibly obnoxious and petty.  If it continues, I'm going to report you for harassment.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

The MTA would (see the justification) though, that's the problem for you guys... While it's not as apparent as it used to be, the MTA still isn't as willy-nilly (as Bee-line is, for example) with their utilization of artics...

(I'm not buying the turn radius stuff as some sort of crutch, which is why I'm not even addressing it)

 

Anyway, the concern from Riverdalians would eventually turn into, why do only some of the buses have artics.....

How does the MTA respond to that, short of sticking their collective fingers in their ears going lalalalalalalala....

 

You see they talked about the idea of the getting new buses, so my thinking is maybe they plan on using artics in some capacity in the future once they receive more low floor buses.  I could see the elderly folks complaining for sure about the older buses because of the steps.  Otherwise I have no idea why it would be mentioned. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The bolded would only be because the MTA has conditioned all of its riders that that's how things operate: either the route runs all 40s or all artics.

 

Plus the fact that you're also all conditioned to just expect that buses are going to be sardine cans; they come in 2s, 3s or 4s; and you should find yourself lucky to have one coming whenever it gets there.

 

You get what you pay for.

Well capacity has certainly been increased going back to the 2010 cuts.  That's one the ways that the thinks that they are becoming more fiscally responsible, and in fact they seem to be pretty proud of it.  That's one reason why I think they've been dismissive about decreasing ridership across the city.  

 

They don't look at it in a sense of, oh - the rider is paying the same 2.75, regardless of the capacity of the bus.... They look at it in the sense of, the 60' bus costed more than the 40' bus - so we will attempt to address necessary costs to run as many (or as little, depending on your vantage point) of these buses that we feel fit....

 

Purely monetary.

 

The concern of the rider isn't there; they're no different than any company that sees/treats its employees as robots & sees their customers as willing suckers that continue to utilize their services....

 

You want to gauge the measure of any one man or entity (in this case)? Adversely affect their pockets & see how they react.....

 

If we were conditioned, we wouldn't have them as talking points... This wouldn't even be a thread.

 

The fact that buses are sardine cans & the expectation of them isn't a result of any conditioning by this agency... It's what happens when you have as many people "sardined" into one city where the culture of anti-public transportation isn't all that apparent....

 

I can agree that the MTA wants to condition us to see things... their way.

Real people have real commutes to obtain the same real dollars they need in order to live & function in this country.... so, they can forget about that, if that's the end goal... People will (and have) simply moved on from this city, with the waning quality of public transportation....

Yep.  That went out of the window a long time ago...

 

Artics really should run on most routes on an as need basis. During peak hours when buses are packed to the rafters you put artics in and maybe cut a 40 ft bus or two that are closely scheduled to the artic runs. Outside of that run 40 footers. Besides outside of routes like the Bx12 and M15 Select which ones need artics running the whole day?

Quite a few to be honest.  Supposedly that's one reason the is purchasing more artics.... To address capacity issues on some lines.

[B35 via Church]

To be fair, they do have Ludlow in the general vicinity (which I guess is another strike against them for a one-seat bus ride to the subway).

 

I mean, I'll admit I'm in the camp of people who thinks that from a transportation perspective (i.e. Before people start with the whole argument about NYC tax dollars being spent to fund service that benefits Westchester residents), an extension of the Bx7 to Getty Square would provide better service along that part of Riverdale Avenue than the BL-8 presently does in terms of connectivity. But of course, that topic's been discussed before.....

 

BTW, for discussion purposes, out of the BL-1, BL-2, BL-5, BL-6, and BL-8, how would you rank them in terms of serving Yonkers residents looking for train service?

Good question....

 

From best to worst, I have to say BL-2, BL-1, BL-8, BL-6, BL-5.

 

- The 2 better serves Yonkers than the 1 for the purpose, since there's simply more Yonkers residents east of the BL-1 (well, period, but especially) that wants the 1..... IDK why it took Bee line this long to realize this with the BL-2; there weren't always as many 2's as you see now running to the subway....

 

- The 1 serves it better than the 5, 6, and 8 by mere default (since neither of those 3 routes directly serves the subway)

 

- For the most part, I have the 8 over the 6, since the 8 brings more Yonkers patrons to Getty Sq (for the 1 or the 2) over the 6....

Putting it another way, if the 8 ran down Broadway to the subway, that would be the most ideal for Yonkers patrons... Have the 6 do so, it would be just as good....

 

- The 5 is the worst for getting enough Yonkers patrons to (Getty sq. for the 1 or the 2 for) the subway... The 5 is more of an unofficial express b/w Yonkers & White Plains... Most of Neps for a lot of folks is a PITA to get to....

------------------------------------

 

So lets say the suits at Bee Line got a hold of some 'ooohh wee (if you catch my drift) & sent all 5 routes down Broadway to the subway....

My list would then be (again, from best to worst): BL-8, BL-2, BL-6, BL-1, BL-5

[Italianstallion]

What would extending the BxM3 do exactly to alleviate overcrowding on the local buses? The only route that would make sense is via Broadway and then up Mosholu Avenue, but it would then have to continue via Riverdale Avenue with the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18. The folks along Broadway need their express bus service too. Maybe you mean the Bx3?? Still makes no sense. Northbound, the Bx10's usage in Riverdale is down in Spuyten Duyvil and along Henry Hudson Parkway. After it hits Central Riverdale, most of the riders are off.

 

My mistake - The BX 3!!!

What would extending the BxM3 do exactly to alleviate overcrowding on the local buses? The only route that would make sense is via Broadway and then up Mosholu Avenue, but it would then have to continue via Riverdale Avenue with the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18. The folks along Broadway need their express bus service too. Maybe you mean the Bx3?? Still makes no sense. Northbound, the Bx10's usage in Riverdale is down in Spuyten Duyvil and along Henry Hudson Parkway. After it hits Central Riverdale, most of the riders are off.

 

As I said, I meant the Bx3 from 238th on north. The BX10 is irrelevant to this idea. The need is for north Riverdale folks to have an alternative to the 7 to get to the subway.

[Italianstallion]

Staten Island might as well be in NJ anyway, but sure if you consider it part of NYC. Having an entire neighborhood sit on high elevation creates challenges. For the sake of this discussion, people are using public transit in Riverdale in some cases because of the steep hills, not in Todt Hill proper.

 

As for the Bx10, your analysis is wrong. I said it empties out, meaning from the crushloaded sardine can that it is, but it wouldn't be completely empty either. There are people within Riverdale that would benefit which I noted earlier. Aside from that it's a roughly 5 minute ride from 246th to 263rd. Not that big of a deal... If buses are late they already short turn them at 246th, be it a Bx7 or a Bx10, and some will use whatever comes first (Bx7 or Bx10, since the Bx7's time savings is marginal anyway). If you're waiting 20 minutes for the next bus, some will just take the Bx10.

 

Now more Bx20 could be an option, but I don't agree with your reasoning for it.

 

If they short-turn 7s and 10s at 246th, it's news to me. I live 3 blocks from there - never seen that happen.

 

As far as the 10 clearing out north of 246, yes if course it does. Subway folks who want to go north of 246  take the 7. In fact, there is almost no need for the 10s to continue to 263rd. They only serve intra-Riverdale customers in that stretch, plus the few going all the way to Montefiore area - and they can take the 7 to 231 and transfer to the 10 there (and it would be faster) Perhaps half of 10s should be turned at 246 during rush so as to create more reliability on the stretch below 246 to and from the subway.

Technically no.

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/35732-1977-bronx-bus-map/

 

I found an old bus map that shows the old Bx24 and the Bx10.  What they did was run via Henry Hudson Parkway, and Northbound, they would turn off on West 253rd street.  That is technically right on the Fieldston border, and right on the border of the estate area.  They then took Fieldston Rd and terminated in North Riverdale at Mosholu Avenue.  That's really the only way they could go, as residents in the estate area would block buses from coming through as they have in the past when school buses went through the area.  They can enact such a rule at their discretion since the streets are indeed private, but they are usually only closed once a year or so to outside residents and traffic. You'll also notice that service was rather limited.  I live within walking distance of the estate area and you won't see much traffic.  The residents are probably the most anal about things being sleepy and quiet overall in Riverdale, and that's saying something, as it's the same thing where I live in Central Riverdale.

 

As I recall the 20 ran every 20 minutes during rush and 40 minutes other times.

[Italianstallion]

I agree it would be useful for the Bee Line 8 to continue down Riverdale Ave. into the city. Then it could go down Manhattan College Parkway to the 242 St. station This would relieve crowding on the B-L 1 and 2 buses on Broadway, plus give north Riverdale folks an option to get to 242 St. station, which is the closest subway station to north Riverdale but cannot be reached by bus (except for the lucky few living near Broadway. Such a new routing would also give Riverdale riders a direct way to get to downtown Yonkers.

[checkmatechamp13]

Good question....

 

From best to worst, I have to say BL-2, BL-1, BL-8, BL-6, BL-5.

 

- The 2 better serves Yonkers than the 1 for the purpose, since there's simply more Yonkers residents east of the BL-1 (well, period, but especially) that wants the 1..... IDK why it took Bee line this long to realize this with the BL-2; there weren't always as many 2's as you see now running to the subway....

 

- The 1 serves it better than the 5, 6, and 8 by mere default (since neither of those 3 routes directly serves the subway)

 

- For the most part, I have the 8 over the 6, since the 8 brings more Yonkers patrons to Getty Sq (for the 1 or the 2) over the 6....

Putting it another way, if the 8 ran down Broadway to the subway, that would be the most ideal for Yonkers patrons... Have the 6 do so, it would be just as good....

 

- The 5 is the worst for getting enough Yonkers patrons to (Getty sq. for the 1 or the 2 for) the subway... The 5 is more of an unofficial express b/w Yonkers & White Plains... Most of Neps for a lot of folks is a PITA to get to....

------------------------------------

 

So lets say the suits at Bee Line got a hold of some 'ooohh wee (if you catch my drift) & sent all 5 routes down Broadway to the subway....

My list would then be (again, from best to worst): BL-8, BL-2, BL-6, BL-1, BL-5

 

That second list was basically what I was looking for. Thanks.

 

If you had to design the system, how would you have it? I remember a while ago, you mentioned beefing up service on the #6 and extending most buses to 242nd Street, eliminating the 1W, and running the 1T & 1X middays (while the 1W was eliminated and I think the 1C was rush hours only). Now that we're discussing the #8 would you run the #8 to 242nd and have something else cover Riverdale Avenue (maybe the #1 or #5)?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If they short-turn 7s and 10s at 246th, it's news to me. I live 3 blocks from there - never seen that happen.

 

As far as the 10 clearing out north of 246, yes if course it does. Subway folks who want to go north of 246  take the 7. In fact, there is almost no need for the 10s to continue to 263rd. They only serve intra-Riverdale customers in that stretch, plus the few going all the way to Montefiore area - and they can take the 7 to 231 and transfer to the 10 there (and it would be faster) Perhaps half of 10s should be turned at 246 during rush so as to create more reliability on the stretch below 246 to and from the subway.

 

As I recall the 20 ran every 20 minutes during rush and 40 minutes other times.

I don't know if I agree with Bx10's being officially short turned at 246th.  There seems to be a growing amount of folks down in Spuyten Duyvil that come from Kappock Street and either head to Central Riverdale, Fieldston or North Riverdale, so when the Bx10 is a mess, they would face much longer waits.  Besides, it's a very short ride from 246th to 263rd anyway, so you might as well continue them to the border.  The Bx20 I get because that route mimics the Bx7 with the exception being that it runs via Kappock.  The buses that were short turned at 246th weren't official trips. It was due to buses being backed up and dispatch telling the driver to drop off and turned around at 246th since those buses weren't that crowded anyway and there was another bus behind.  Aside from that those Bx7 buses are pretty packed in the mornings too, so they could use some relief.  Some folks don't care about the extra commute time.  If an extra 10 minutes or so means they can get a seat, then some opt for the Bx10.  Riding through Spuyten Duyvil will cost them maybe 5 - 10 minutes more time versus the Bx7.  

My mistake - The BX 3!!!

 

As I said, I meant the Bx3 from 238th on north. The BX10 is irrelevant to this idea. The need is for north Riverdale folks to have an alternative to the 7 to get to the subway.

I think you could deal with the Bx7 with artics.  That addresses the mess in the mornings. Sometimes I see two Bx7 buses one packed and other half empty because they run backed up.   The other thing that is leading to the mess is all of the people from Yonkers coming down to use our services in Riverdale.  Bee Line needs to step up and provide better service for their residents.  They can run their buses non-stop from the border to the subway.  That would make the most sense.  

As I recall the 20 ran every 20 minutes during rush and 40 minutes other times.

You mean the old Bx24?

 

 

I agree it would be useful for the Bee Line 8 to continue down Riverdale Ave. into the city. Then it could go down Manhattan College Parkway to the 242 St. station This would relieve crowding on the B-L 1 and 2 buses on Broadway, plus give north Riverdale folks an option to get to 242 St. station, which is the closest subway station to north Riverdale but cannot be reached by bus (except for the lucky few living near Broadway. Such a new routing would also give Riverdale riders a direct way to get to downtown Yonkers.

I don't think the folks in Fieldston would go for it via Manhattan College Parkway nor would Manhattan College.  The routing would have to be via Mosholu Avenue. 

I agree it would be useful for the Bee Line 8 to continue down Riverdale Ave. into the city. Then it could go down Manhattan College Parkway to the 242 St. station This would relieve crowding on the B-L 1 and 2 buses on Broadway, plus give north Riverdale folks an option to get to 242 St. station, which is the closest subway station to north Riverdale but cannot be reached by bus (except for the lucky few living near Broadway. Such a new routing would also give Riverdale riders a direct way to get to downtown Yonkers.

I don't think the folks in Fieldston would go for it via Manhattan College Parkway nor would the Manhattan College.  The routing would have to be via Mosholu Avenue and via Broadway to 242nd.  

[DaTransitMan4608]

Artics really should run on most routes on an as need basis. During peak hours when buses are packed to the rafters you put artics in and maybe cut a 40 ft bus or two that are closely scheduled to the artic runs. Outside of that run 40 footers. Besides outside of routes like the Bx12 and M15 Select which ones need artics running the whole day?

Quite a few actually.

 

Bx1/2

Bx36 (although it doesn't get them as often as it should)

Q10 (I'll even stretch it and say it's cousin the Q3, would do fine with an artic or two during rush hours)

Q52/53 (should've had artics on this line)

Q113/114

B15 (although I can't say for certain about the WHOLE day, as I only rode it during the middle of the day)

[Italianstallion]

"You mean the old Bx24?"

 

Yes, sorry, my bad again.

I don't know if I agree with Bx10's being officially short turned at 246th.  There seems to be a growing amount of folks down in Spuyten Duyvil that come from Kappock Street and either head to Central Riverdale, Fieldston or North Riverdale, so when the Bx10 is a mess, they would face much longer waits.  Besides, it's a very short ride from 246th to 263rd anyway, so you might as well continue them to the border.  The Bx20 I get because that route mimics the Bx7 with the exception being that it runs via Kappock.  The buses that were short turned at 246th weren't official trips. It was due to buses being backed up and dispatch telling the driver to drop off and turned around at 246th since those buses weren't that crowded anyway and there was another bus behind.  Aside from that those Bx7 buses are pretty packed in the mornings too, so they could use some relief.  Some folks don't care about the extra commute time.  If an extra 10 minutes or so means they can get a seat, then some opt for the Bx10.  Riding through Spuyten Duyvil will cost them maybe 5 - 10 minutes more time versus the Bx7.  

I think you could deal with the Bx7 with artics.  That addresses the mess in the mornings. Sometimes I see two Bx7 buses one packed and other half empty because they run backed up.   The other thing that is leading to the mess is all of the people from Yonkers coming down to use our services in Riverdale.  Bee Line needs to step up and provide better service for their residents.  They can run their buses non-stop from the border to the subway.  That would make the most sense.  

You mean the old Bx24?

 

 

I don't think the folks in Fieldston would go for it via Manhattan College Parkway nor would Manhattan College.  The routing would have to be via Mosholu Avenue. 

I don't think the folks in Fieldston would go for it via Manhattan College Parkway nor would the Manhattan College.  The routing would have to be via Mosholu Avenue and via Broadway to 242nd.  

 

Fieldston residents may well object, though M.C. Parkway is on the edge of Fieldston, not within it. I don't know why the College would care, other than for increased traffic congestion.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

"You mean the old Bx24?"

 

Yes, sorry, my bad again.

 

Fieldston residents may well object, though M.C. Parkway is on the edge of Fieldston, not within it. I don't know why the College would care, other than for increased traffic congestion.

Manhattan College Parkway does in fact run into the estate area of Fieldston.  There are numerous mansions along the stretch that you are talking about so that is indeed part of the estate area.  I go for walks over there and so on since I am only a few minutes from there, so I'm quite familiar with the spots you're talking about.  You being a Riverdale resident and living close to Fieldston as well, you should know that the quieter the better in Riverdale.  Hell even the people outside of the estate area in Central Riverdale on the border with Fieldston were raising hell about the noise and congestion caused by rowdy Manhattan College kids drinking at the nearby bars and causing a ruckus late at night.  It's been something they've been making a stink about to the community board now for years, and they are really on the college to address the issue.  Here are some sources below (lol):

 

“The students are destroying the peace and tranquility of the neighborhood,” said Bill Kirchner, a resident of West 238th Street’s Riverdale House.

Mr. Kirchner, a graduate of Manhattan College, is one of over 100 neighbors who have signed a petition asking college officials, local politicians, Community Board 8 and the 50th Precinct to “restore a culture of respect in the neighborhood.”

Day and night, the petition alleges, students in large groups meander up and down the streets, often shouting, cursing and creating a general ruckus.

Student parties at off-campus housing keep residents up at night. In addition to the noise, the petition alleges drunken behavior like vomiting, public urination and the trampling of bushes and flower beds on private property, along with littering yards and sidewalks with beer and soda bottles and cans. 

http://riverdalepress.com/stories/Neighbors-to-college-students-shut-up,56422?page=1&

 

http://riverdalepress.com/stories/Bar-frequented-by-Manhattan-students-to-close-earlier,60596

 

Manhattan College being a private school has an air of snobbery like the other hilltop Riverdale schools (Horace Mann, Fieldston and Riverdale Country), though not on the same level but it's still there.  I couldn't see them wanting such buses going through the campus, and if they did allow it, I'm sure someone from the community over there would raise hell.

[Italianstallion]

Manhattan College Parkway does in fact run into the estate area of Fieldston.  There are numerous mansions along the stretch that you are talking about so that is indeed part of the estate area.  I go for walks over there and so on since I am only a few minutes from there, so I'm quite familiar with the spots you're talking about.  You being a Riverdale resident and living close to Fieldston as well, you should know that the quieter the better in Riverdale.  Hell even the people outside of the estate area in Central Riverdale on the border with Fieldston were raising hell about the noise and congestion caused by rowdy Manhattan College kids drinking at the nearby bars and causing a ruckus late at night.  It's been something they've been making a stink about to the community board now for years, and they are really on the college to address the issue.  Here are some sources below (lol):

 

http://riverdalepress.com/stories/Neighbors-to-college-students-shut-up,56422?page=1&

 

http://riverdalepress.com/stories/Bar-frequented-by-Manhattan-students-to-close-earlier,60596

 

Manhattan College being a private school has an air of snobbery like the other hilltop Riverdale schools (Horace Mann, Fieldston and Riverdale Country), though not on the same level but it's still there.  I couldn't see them wanting such buses going through the campus, and if they did allow it, I'm sure someone from the community over there would raise hell.

 

Maybe we are arguing semantics, but while M C Parkway borders Fieldston, it is not a private Fieldston street, but a city street. It does not enter Fieldston. That said, the Fieldston residents may well complain.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Maybe we are arguing semantics, but while M C Parkway borders Fieldston, it is not a private Fieldston street, but a city street. It does not enter Fieldston. That said, the Fieldston residents may well complain.

I looked up the official Fieldston Historic District Boundaries (link is here: http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/downloads/pdf/reports/fieldston.pdf)and it's pretty damn close... With that said, my question to you is why not use Mosholu Avenue?  It's definitely more bus friendly since there are wider streets and you're less likely to face opposition since you already have the Hudson Rail link shuttle buses running through there.  Run those Bee Line buses via Riverdale Avenue, via Mosholu and via Broadway to 242nd street non-stop.