Lawrence St Posted March 20, 2017 Share #51 Posted March 20, 2017 I believe it would. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstar1 Posted March 20, 2017 Share #52 Posted March 20, 2017 They could have Skip each other stops like the original service pattern similar to . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted March 20, 2017 Share #53 Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) I believe it would. I get you. In a perfect world on paper and on a map maybe. IMO you're undershooting the other factors you have a look at railroad as a living entity almost a lot could happen on that 13-mile run. There are so many other variables And running headways that tight there's no room for error literally. They could have Skip each other stops like the original service pattern similar to . How many trains are a day actually skip-stop? or even a for that matter. I doubt we're talking the same headways here. Edited March 20, 2017 by RailRunRob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstar1 Posted March 20, 2017 Share #54 Posted March 20, 2017 Between 242 St to 96 St could skip each other stop on Local track, it was done before they could do it again only during AM & PM Rush hours. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted March 20, 2017 Share #55 Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) Between 242 St to 96 St could skip each other stop on Local track, it was done before they could do it again only during AM & PM Rush hours. The question being if it worked well why would you discontinue it? Sound's kinda counterproductive wouldn't you say. There has to be a line in the sand where skip-stop isn't effective that as to be a TPH amount I'm not sure that that is off hand but plus 25 per hour as be up there increasing dwell times crowding factors in as well. What's the amount of time you guys estimate in savings for the rider? Edited March 20, 2017 by RailRunRob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted March 20, 2017 Share #56 Posted March 20, 2017 It never hurts to try. Transit haven't tried express service on the since the being discontinued in 2005, and on the since the pilot program. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted March 20, 2017 Share #57 Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) IDK if this stop selection can also work, but this is what I had in mind of a express north of 96 Street: <1> EXPRESS Stops at 242, Dyckman, 191, 181, 168, 157, 145 St (SB only) , 96 Street There would be slightly less merging (at Dyckman, at 145 Street Northbound, and at 96 Street). Also, considering the amount of people who get between 96 Street and 157 Street, in addition to the amount of people who get on at 242 Street, you can have the services run every 6 minutes in the AM, and depart Van Cortlandt Park together (so that there's distance between trains at Dyckman). IDK exactly how much time it takes to do a non-stop trip from 145 Street to 96 Street, so there might be an issue with merging at 96 Street. In the PM, there's one more merge than the AM. Technically , the local would be merging with the express, so the express can be given priority in the case of merging north of 145 Street (I don't expect there to be problems as scheduled). Edited March 20, 2017 by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted March 20, 2017 Share #58 Posted March 20, 2017 Why is there the talk of merging? We're running SKIP STOP not literal express service on the middle track... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted March 20, 2017 Share #59 Posted March 20, 2017 Skip Stop only works if the destination is one main place. The serves a lot of intermediate riders from Columbia University and Uptown riders. Having Skip Stop Service doubles their waitime while providing riders on board with a few minutes of savings(if even due to "train traffic") 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted March 20, 2017 Share #60 Posted March 20, 2017 I get you. In a perfect world on paper and on a map maybe. IMO you're undershooting the other factors you have a look at railroad as a living entity almost a lot could happen on that 13-mile run. There are so many other variables And running headways that tight there's no room for error literally. How many trains are a day actually skip-stop? or even a for that matter. I doubt we're talking the same headways here. There's 6 trains in both rush hours. The has 7 skip-stop trains in the AM and 5 in the PM. But the headways are every 5 minutes combined/10 separately, compared to 3-4 combined and 6-8 separately. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted March 20, 2017 Share #61 Posted March 20, 2017 IDK if this stop selection can also work, but this is what I had in mind of a express north of 96 Street: <1> EXPRESS Stops at 242, Dyckman, 191, 181, 168, 157, 145 St (SB only) , 96 Street There would be slightly less merging (at Dyckman, at 145 Street Northbound, and at 96 Street). Also, considering the amount of people who get between 96 Street and 157 Street, in addition to the amount of people who get on at 242 Street, you can have the services run every 6 minutes in the AM, and depart Van Cortlandt Park together (so that there's distance between trains at Dyckman). IDK exactly how much time it takes to do a non-stop trip from 145 Street to 96 Street, so there might be an issue with merging at 96 Street. In the PM, there's one more merge than the AM. Technically , the local would be merging with the express, so the express can be given priority in the case of merging north of 145 Street (I don't expect there to be problems as scheduled). Umm, this would be a better way of doing it if you were going to go for it. You clear the trains entering service at 238th. Dyckman is still close enough to 242 to where train are still pretty close to schedule. About a min between stations on express segments technically a bit less being trains in motion 125th-116th abit more and your merge points at Dyckman,145 and south of 103rd tack an extra min. Roughly 7 mins from 145th to 96th. But yeah might be some backup around 103rd kinda reminds me of 138th GC setup in the AM. May also be backup around 238th with trains going into the yard. I can process this better than a skip-stop plan. Still a lot to plan for. Why is there the talk of merging? We're running SKIP STOP not literal express service on the middle track... With the middle track at least you have an extra lane for traffic. Kinda like the shoulder or entrance lane on a Highway the merge is the key. There's 6 trains in both rush hours. The has 7 skip-stop trains in the AM and 5 in the PM. But the headways are every 5 minutes combined/10 separately, compared to 3-4 combined and 6-8 separately. How does this compare to the skip-stop pre-2005? were they at a 3/6? or would it even work with that type of headway? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted March 20, 2017 Share #62 Posted March 20, 2017 How does this compare to the skip-stop pre-2005? were they at a 3/6? or would it even work with that type of headway? The schedule is here. Headway-wise, at the peak-of-the-peak in the AM, it's 3/6 separate/combined. The PM rush is a little less frequent. The difference of course is that the span is longer, and it applied in both directions (I think in the 90s, it even ran middays) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV184 Posted March 20, 2017 Share #63 Posted March 20, 2017 Ok if we are running the 1 and 9 they should definitely not skip 181 because that's where most of the Washington heights passengers get on. Going down 168 you can skip since not a lot of people fill up the platform as much as 168 and 181 well in my opinion. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted March 20, 2017 Share #64 Posted March 20, 2017 The schedule is here. Headway-wise, at the peak-of-the-peak in the AM, it's 3/6 separate/combined. The PM rush is a little less frequent. The difference of course is that the span is longer, and it applied in both directions (I think in the 90s, it even ran middays) Do you know why they ended skip-stop? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted March 20, 2017 Share #65 Posted March 20, 2017 Ridership was growing at a lot of the skipped stations, and the local stations (the ones served by only one of the services) ended up being just as busy, or even busier than the express stations (served by both services). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted March 20, 2017 Share #66 Posted March 20, 2017 Do you know why they ended skip-stop? Towards the end, they were converting so many stops from only or only to & stops because of increased ridership that they gave up on skip stop altogether and converted trips into trips... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 20, 2017 Share #67 Posted March 20, 2017 Ridership was growing at a lot of the skipped stations, and the local stations (the ones served by only one of the services) ended up being just as busy, or even busier than the express stations (served by both services). Towards the end, they were converting so many stops from only or only to & stops because of increased ridership that they gave up on skip stop altogether and converted trips into trips... That's exactly how I remember it.... It's what led to the eventual demise of the ole 9'..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted March 20, 2017 Share #68 Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) Towards the end, they were converting so many stops from only or only to & stops because of increased ridership that they gave up on skip stop altogether and converted trips into trips... Which stops were converted piecemeal? From what I remember, trains always skipped 225th, 207th, and 145th, while trains always skipped 238th, 215th, Dyckman, and 157th. It wasn't like the where they unofficially stopped at Alabama Avenue and then made it into an official stop. Edited March 20, 2017 by checkmatechamp13 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted March 20, 2017 Share #69 Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) Which stops were converted piecemeal? From what I remember, trains always skipped 225th, 207th, and 145th, while trains always skipped 238th, 215th, Dyckman, and 157th. It wasn't like the where they unofficially stopped at Alabama Avenue and then made it into an official stop. According to this NYTimes piece (https://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B07E5D71638F931A25752C0A9639C8B63) 125th, 181st and 191st used to be part of skip-stop. Beginning in 1989, when the ''skip-stop'' service was introduced for weekday daytime hours, the lines alternately skipped stations between 137th Street in Manhattan and 242nd Street-Van Cortlandt Park in the Bronx. But three stations -- 125th, 181st and 191st Streets -- have since been added as all-day stops, and midday skip-stop service was discontinued in 1994. Sewell Chan (NYT) to answer the original question, here's a response from a 2008 thread here: As Far as I know, the was discontinued due to the lack of ridership. Many customers who preferred the bypassed stops had to wait for either a or to reach their destination. Perhaps making the a pure Local to/from City College-137 St and Van Cortlandt Park-242 St, was the best idea. "(1)/One" Train would serve the entire line; all stops, all times. Edited March 20, 2017 by Around the Horn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted March 20, 2017 Share #70 Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) Towards the end, they were converting so many stops from only or only to & stops because of increased ridership that they gave up on skip stop altogether and converted trips into trips... I stand corrected... to answer the original question, here's a response from a 2008 thread here: Back to the original question does the Upper Broadway need an Express or SkipStop service? Seems better to balance everything out. The isn't that slow of a local. Edited March 20, 2017 by RailRunRob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted March 20, 2017 Share #71 Posted March 20, 2017 Back to the original question does the Upper Broadway need an Express or SkipStop service? Seems better to balance everything out. The isn't that slow of a local. IMO no. There were just too many hassles with the previous setup... Now, responding to the OP "looking for ideas", I think it would be cool to see a potential / timetable 10-15 years down the road if the were to come back and serve Red Hook, Brooklyn as AECOM proposed last year... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted March 20, 2017 Share #72 Posted March 20, 2017 IMO no. There were just too many hassles with the previous setup... Now, responding to the OP "looking for ideas", I think it would be cool to see a potential / timetable 10-15 years down the road if the were to come back and serve Red Hook, Brooklyn as AECOM proposed last year... Right, I remember that. That would be cool.. easier being your working with two different branches. Thru 242 service from Brooklyn maybe even some short turns at 137th. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted March 20, 2017 Share #73 Posted March 20, 2017 Back to the original question does the Upper Broadway need an Express or SkipStop service? Seems better to balance everything out. The isn't that slow of a local. YES, we do. We need express service for us riders who live in the northern part of the line near the terminals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV184 Posted March 20, 2017 Share #74 Posted March 20, 2017 The is not doing that great by itself and not to mention all these delays that happen sometimes. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY1635 Posted March 20, 2017 Share #75 Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) YES, we do. We need express service for us riders who live in the northern part of the line near the terminals. I feel that areas north of 59th Street needs more local service. I'm not even sure how express service north of 96th Street would even work with a plan that doesn't involve bringing back the Edited March 20, 2017 by NY1635 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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