Im Making An (1) Train Schedule

[RailRunRob]

You can run such a service and have some trains start at 137th. I honestly would prefer 145th because that's where the trains start to become crowded.  If the track configuration could be reworked, I would have more trains start there.   The needs some work too, but I'm not so sure about an extension.  Express service has become pathetic.  The delays and the trains that crawl... You're better off taking the .

I could see the 137th plan as a step in the right direction. Wonder what the operation is for reversing trains from that point.

Edited March 20, 2017 by RailRunRob

[RR503]

They already start a bunch of s from 137th...

Why not do express from 145th to 96th as a pliot? I for one am not convinced we need exp in the bx. We're doing it for the benefit of riders at 1 station... 

[RailRunRob]

They already start a bunch of s from 137th...

Why not do express from 145th to 96th as a pliot? I for one am not convinced we need exp in the bx. We're doing it for the benefit of riders at 1 station... 

How many? I just see 8:14,29,07 and 21 for the AM. I'd guess these same trains park up in reverse in the PM. I think he's talking more standard short turns I guess kinda like a 138-3 Ave setup.  I guess they could try an express from 145 to 96th that's a 9 min run I'm just not sure how much time would be saved.

Edited March 20, 2017 by RailRunRob

[Via Garibaldi 8]

They already start a bunch of s from 137th...

Why not do express from 145th to 96th as a pliot? I for one am not convinced we need exp in the bx. We're doing it for the benefit of riders at 1 station... 

And that's done because of the overcrowding problem.  That's one of the main reasons I support the express service... Balanced loads.  The time savings likely won't be much, but it's still good to have it.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Around the Horn]

How many? I just see 8:14,29,07 and 21 for the AM. I'd guess these same trains park up in reverse in the PM. I think he's talking more standard short turns I guess kinda like a 138-3 Ave setup.  I guess they could try an express from 145 to 96th that's a 9 min run I'm just not sure how much time would be saved.

 

Here are the short turns I see:

from South Ferry to 137 St-City College: 7:49:30, 7:59:30, 8:18:00, 8:32:00

from South Ferry to 215 St: 8:46:00, 8:55:30, 9:07:30, 9:16:00

 

from 238 St to South Ferry: 6:42:30, 6:52:30, 7:02:00, 7:12:00, 7:23:00, 7:33:30, 7:40:00, 7:47:00, 8:01:30, 8:15:30, 15:54:00, 16:06:30, 16:22:30, 16:38:30, 16:50:30, 17:15:30

from 137 St-City College to South Ferry: 8:14:00, 8:29:00, 8:42:00, 8:53:30, 9:06:30, 9:21:00

[RailRunRob]

Here are the short turns I see:

from South Ferry to 137 St-City College: 7:49:30, 7:59:30, 8:18:00, 8:32:00

from South Ferry to 215 St: 8:46:00, 8:55:30, 9:07:30, 9:16:00

 

from 238 St to South Ferry: 6:42:30, 6:52:30, 7:02:00, 7:12:00, 7:23:00, 7:33:30, 7:40:00, 7:47:00, 8:01:30, 8:15:30, 15:54:00, 16:06:30, 16:22:30, 16:38:30, 16:50:30, 17:15:30

from 137 St-City College to South Ferry: 8:14:00, 8:29:00, 8:42:00, 8:53:30, 9:06:30, 9:21:00

Your right I missed that 8:42 and 8:54

Didn't include anything else being we were talking about 137th.

[Italianstallion]

What's the point of that single track if folks can't get express service? The has a single track too IIRC and there are express trains to Pelham Bay. Why not Van Cortlandt Park? Slip stop service is pointless. There needs to be a real express service for the folks taking the subway down the hill.

 

Well, as a Riverdalian I would love express service as much as anyone. But the difference with the 6 is that on the 6, there are multiple local stops from Pelham Bay to Parkchester before express service starts, so the express trains get a good load aboard. With the track layout on the 1, only 242nd St. passengers would benefit. Meanwhile, the large loads entering on 231st and 207th would get no benefit.

[Italianstallion]

IDK if this stop selection can also work, but this is what I had in mind of a express north of 96 Street:

 

 

<1> EXPRESS

Stops at 242, Dyckman, 191, 181, 168, 157, 145 St (SB only) , 96 Street

 

There would be slightly less merging (at Dyckman, at 145 Street Northbound, and at 96 Street). Also, considering the amount of people who get between 96 Street and 157 Street, in addition to the amount of people who get on at 242 Street, you can have the services run every 6 minutes in the AM, and depart Van Cortlandt Park together (so that there's distance between trains at Dyckman). IDK exactly how much time it takes to do a non-stop trip from 145 Street to 96 Street, so there might be an issue with merging at 96 Street.

 

In the PM, there's one more merge than the AM. Technically , the local would be merging with the express, so the express can be given priority in the case of merging north of 145 Street (I don't expect there to be problems as scheduled). 

 

One big issue here is that the Riverdale local buses deposit folks at 231st, not 242nd. That large 231 St. crowd would be stuck with the local.

[Italianstallion]

 I guess I would also look to history for possibilities was there ever an Upper Broadway Express? in the lines the line's 109-year history? 

 

 

Yes! In the 1950s there was a "Broadway Through-Express" that skipped several stops between 137 and Dyckman. I don't know the details; some Googling may reveal.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, as a Riverdalian I would love express service as much as anyone. But the difference with the 6 is that on the 6, there are multiple local stops from Pelham Bay to Parkchester before express service starts, so the express trains get a good load aboard. With the track layout on the 1, only 242nd St. passengers would benefit. Meanwhile, the large loads entering on 231st and 207th would get no benefit.

 

 

One big issue here is that the Riverdale local buses deposit folks at 231st, not 242nd. That large 231 St. crowd would be stuck with the local.

I would have express trains starting at different points.

[Italianstallion]

Yes! In the 1950s there was a "Broadway Through-Express" that skipped several stops between 137 and Dyckman. I don't know the details; some Googling may reveal.

 

So, according to Wikipedia:

 

"On February 6, 1959, 1 trains began to run between 242nd Street and South Ferry all times. Trains began to be branded as Hi-Speed Locals, being as fast as the old express service was with new R21s and R22s on the line.[12][13] During rush hour in the peak direction, alternate trains, those running from 242nd Street, made no stops except 168th Street between Dyckman and 137th Streets in the direction of heavy traffic. The bypassed stations were served by locals originating from Dyckman Street.[14]

 

"PM rush local/express service was discontinued on February 2, 1959, and morning rush express service was revised on January 8, 1962 to running non stop from 225th to Dyckman Streets and 168th to 137th Streets. This express service was discontinued on May 24, 1976, after which all 1 trains began to make all stops."

 

I have no idea how the trains skipping all those stoops did not catch up to their leaders. Perhaps there was a longer headway then.

[Around the Horn]

Didn't include anything else being we were talking about 137th.

 

Yeah, I just thought I'd list everything lol

[RailRunRob]

Yeah, I just thought I'd list everything lol

The more the merrier  !!!!

Edited March 21, 2017 by RailRunRob

[RailRunRob]

 

So, according to Wikipedia:

 

"On February 6, 1959, 1 trains began to run between 242nd Street and South Ferry all times. Trains began to be branded as Hi-Speed Locals, being as fast as the old express service was with new R21s and R22s on the line.[12][13] During rush hour in the peak direction, alternate trains, those running from 242nd Street, made no stops except 168th Street between Dyckman and 137th Streets in the direction of heavy traffic. The bypassed stations were served by locals originating from Dyckman Street.[14]

 

"PM rush local/express service was discontinued on February 2, 1959, and morning rush express service was revised on January 8, 1962 to running non stop from 225th to Dyckman Streets and 168th to 137th Streets. This express service was discontinued on May 24, 1976, after which all 1 trains began to make all stops."

 

I have no idea how the trains skipping all those stoops did not catch up to their leaders. Perhaps there was a longer headway then.

 

Interesting!! I figure this was tried before. I mean if we are thinking about it I'm sure it came across the table at some point.  So there has to be some reasoning behind ending the service. So it's something they could try again.  225th to Dyckman and 168th to 137th seems like a try still covers's the high traffic stations. Seems there was no middle track action tho. I wonder it's an old schedule floating around id love to see the savings in time. But your right I have no idea how you don't catch the train in front 

Edited March 21, 2017 by RailRunRob

[Lawrence St]

So how will we tell the MTA that we need them to do a study of express service on the and ?

[RailRunRob]

So how will we tell the MTA that we need them to do a study of express service on the and ?

They did the already correct? I guess write into the MTA contact your representatives. Not sure what the proper channels are.

[P3F]

What were the issues with the way the pilot on the turned out?

[Lawrence St]

What was wrong was that they did it all wrong on the pilot express. It skipped the wrong stations. This is why if they implemented this service change when ridership was growing back in the 19XX's, ridership would have balanced out between express and local stations so this wouldn't be an issue today. I for instance would rather take the then the since it's already express in Manhattan.

They did the already correct? I guess write into the MTA contact your representatives. Not sure what the proper channels are.

Well there has to be a way...a petition of some sort? Contact the I-4 team?

[checkmatechamp13]

What was wrong was that they did it all wrong on the pilot express. It skipped the wrong stations. This is why if they implemented this service change when ridership was growing back in the 19XX's, ridership would have balanced out between express and local stations so this wouldn't be an issue today. I for instance would rather take the then the since it's already express in Manhattan.

 

Well there has to be a way...a petition of some sort? Contact the I-4 team?

 

The problem is that the track layout only allows for so much....if the track bypasses busier stations, then you end up with more crowded locals and emptier expresses (unless the locals start further down)

 

Now for everybody else, another thing to consider is that on the train uptown, there's a decent amount of people from The Bronx/Inwood/Washington Heights using it to access work/school on the UWS/Morningside Heights/Hamilton Heights. So at the very least, all trains would have to stop at 137th to allow for riders further uptown to transfer if they need to get to say, Columbia.

 

Now could it work if say, you had express trains stop at 137th, and then have some trains waiting in the yard that pull into 137th immediately after and make local stops? The problem with that is that in order to have a 1:1 ratio you'd need to cut service north of 137th overall because you're constrained by the merge at 96th. I suppose you could have express trains start from 242nd, and local trains start from say, Dyckman and some more start at 137th. Food for thought....

[danielhg121]

The was a disaster, they ran air basically because as someone said it skipped the wrong stations, ppl at fordham and kingsbridge bypassed and bedford was only added later so lehman college students could benefit, then burnside avenue and straight down to 149th st-gc, do the stops at mt eden, 170, 176, get good ridership anyways? It's always a bore stopping at those stations and speaking of the , this morning at 7 am or so there was a gap which lead to a being rerouted up to burnside and terminated. But it didnt help because they prob didn't announce it until they got to 138 st, which would lose all ridership by then and not help much and it prob skipped the 167-burnside stations so no help at all, just gonna overburden the next which i was on and burnside had quite the mass. Frickin MTA get a brain!

Edited March 21, 2017 by danielhg121

[paulrivera]

What were the issues with the way the pilot on the turned out?

I know the 7:40 Woodlawn interval during the second pilot did pretty good. That particular train always connected with a local at Burnside without fail when I used to study/work downtown. The people between 176 and 161 would get an empty train and the people at KB, Fordham, and 183rd did get an opportunity to transfer to the express train in this instance. I don't know if all the other intervals were set up like this but this particular interval did get the job done.

[Union Tpke]

Interesting.  Now I see the issues.  I don't get why they didn't just continue the three tracks throughout?  I understand the engineering problems, but hey if you could get two tracks in, why not go for three?  Given how deep some of the stations are, it would be a serious challenge to expand them to get in a third track, aside from other things.  I think long term though, this has to be looked at, so that you could at least provide peak express service.  I don't know how you do it exactly (perhaps you have a study to see the feasibility of such an expansion - I think it would've easier to have done it from the start versus now), but they're obviously doing something at the moment with the line being knocked out almost entirely on weekends.

 

I have mentioned this before. The third track was added as an afterthought. It was a change of plans. Parts of the line had to be rebuilt, like the viaduct over 125th. However, they could not make any express stations as the new track would have no access to the side platforms. They were not going to destroy all of the work that was already done. The section that is two track goes through a deep tunnel. It was very hard work. Several people died there trying to tunnel through the earth. Do you really think that they would go through that again to add space for an additional track?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I have mentioned this before. The third track was added as an afterthought. It was a change of plans. Parts of the line had to be rebuilt, like the viaduct over 125th. However, they could not make any express stations as the new track would have no access to the side platforms. They were not going to destroy all of the work that was already done. The section that is two track goes through a deep tunnel. It was very hard work. Several people died there trying to tunnel through the earth. Do you really think that they would go through that again to add space for an additional track?

It's 2017.  Those tracks were built how many years ago? I think that the technology that we have should've improved enough for them to add a third track.  People risk their lives constructing new things every day.  Hell, I went on a construction site years ago where we had to hoist a piano on the side of a building with an extremely busy street below.  Do you think that stopped us from continuing with the project? No.  We met with the board members and I did my job as the manager to ensure that the contractors obtained the insurance necessary to complete that portion of the project.  I'm sure that whatever precautions needed would be taken to mitigate the risk of injury or death, but the reality is people can be killed or injured for the simplest things.  You have no idea how many guys in my old office were injured on the job.  Life goes on.  

Edited March 21, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Union Tpke]

It's 2017.  Those tracks were built how many years ago? I think that technology should've improved enough for them to add a third track.  

I was talking about when they were under construction. Do you really think that the MTA would shut down all service on the line to rebuilt the tunnel, and the deep stations at 157th, 168th, 181st and 191st? Do you realize how much it would cost? It would cost billions and billions. This would only save minimum time. It would be a much better investment to have open gangway trains and the construction of necessary subway lines.

This is a much better investment that wasting money on building that third track.

This would speed travel times on the 2 and 5, and it would double TPH on the Jerome Avenue Line and it would provide express service.

Express service on the Jerome Avenue Line could work if the 3 train is extended via the line like in this plan:

I would rebuild Bedford Park Boulevard as an express station. The yard leads north of the station would be grade-separated to allow trains to terminate there like what is done at Parkchester. The change would be like what was done on the Pelham Line.

 

[Lawrence St]

Are you insane? You would rather abandon Harlem-148th just to built that flyover?