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BreeddekalbL

SEPTA to pick Massachusetts-based company to build bilevel railcars over Hyundai Rotem in South Phil

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Guaranteed lemons... This lowest qualified bidder rule needs to go...

 

Plus SEPTA is rumored to have removed the "previous experience building FRA compliant rolling stock" requirement, which after the Rotem fiasco is incredibly stupid...

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Oh I've got a very bad feeling about this. That same feeling I had when I found out NJT chose DesignLine over MCI to replace their CNGs.

 

We all know how that turned out....

Edited by DaTransitMan4608
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well on the world subways facebook group i had a discussion with someone from Singapore who says the trains are really bad rampant breakdowns etc

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They got the CTA as well. Seem's like there in the US market..

 

supposedly boston also and Los angeles, plus they also want to build the next order of BART cars

Edited by BreeddekalbL

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Guaranteed lemons... This lowest qualified bidder rule needs to go...

 

Plus SEPTA is rumored to have removed the "previous experience building FRA compliant rolling stock" requirement, which after the Rotem fiasco is incredibly stupid...

OK...update... since the editing window passed a long time ago...

Turns out the state of Pennsylvania removed that requirement and SEPTA was just forced to comply...

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OK...update... since the editing window passed a long time ago...

Turns out the state of Pennsylvania removed that requirement and SEPTA was just forced to comply...

 

when the hell did that happen if you know?

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Guaranteed lemons... This lowest qualified bidder rule needs to go...

 

Plus SEPTA is rumored to have removed the "previous experience building FRA compliant rolling stock" requirement, which after the Rotem fiasco is incredibly stupid...

Some people (companies) never learn....

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Guaranteed lemons... This lowest qualified bidder rule needs to go...

 

Plus SEPTA is rumored to have removed the "previous experience building FRA compliant rolling stock" requirement, which after the Rotem fiasco is incredibly stupid...

 

How are these guaranteed lemons? Just because CRRC is based out of China doesn't mean anything. iPhones come from China...are they low quality? From the article that the OP linked, these aren't low bid, but "best value," which means that price alone doesn't determine a winner. Also, the "previous experience building FRA compliant rolling stock" requirement discourages competition. What if a very capable company that had an excellent record wanted to bid but was missing that requirement?

Edited by swtat

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How are these guaranteed lemons? Just because CRRC is based out of China doesn't mean anything. iPhones come from China...are they low quality? From the article that the OP linked, these aren't low bid, but "best value," which means that price alone doesn't determine a winner. Also, the "previous experience building FRA compliant rolling stock" requirement discourages competition. What if a very capable company that had an excellent record wanted to bid but was missing that requirement?

 

cause the thing is hyundai never bulit commuter trains before while denver's order was successful while philly's is crap plus CRRC their body of work in singapore is very bad bad batteries and cracked windows  no one has ever heard of CRRC before they won the chicago contract

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cause the thing is hyundai never bulit commuter trains before while denver's order was successful while philly's is crap plus CRRC their body of work in singapore is very bad bad batteries and cracked windows  no one has ever heard of CRRC before they won the chicago contract

 

The only project that people can ever cite from CRRC is Singapore MRT's, and that wasn't even CRRC; it was CSR Sifang, which is the shakier of the two arms of CRRC. What about the rest of their projects? How about their orders for Turkey, Iran, and Australia? How about their high-speed trains? They wouldn't still be in business if their many other projects were failures.

 

Nobody has ever heard of CRRC because they were formed only last year from a merger of CNR & CSR and because they had never produced anything for the North American market before.

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I have to say I'm quite surprised everyone is awarding the contracts without them having put out a successful US order. Even if CRRC has successful orders elsewhere, those cars were not coming out of Springfield using that supply chain. Even 'experienced' manufacturers have had problems in the US like Bombardier, and SEPTA's own Hyundai Rotem.

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The only project that people can ever cite from CRRC is Singapore MRT's, and that wasn't even CRRC; it was CSR Sifang, which is the shakier of the two arms of CRRC. What about the rest of their projects? How about their orders for Turkey, Iran, and Australia? How about their high-speed trains? They wouldn't still be in business if their many other projects were failures.

 

Nobody has ever heard of CRRC because they were formed only last year from a merger of CNR & CSR and because they had never produced anything for the North American market before.

 

i hate to predict it but there will be problems. 

Seems like you are very well versed in their portfolio and know more then a lot about them plus if you ask most railfans about CRRC and it's former entities about 95% would say who huh? 

 

I'd trust bombardier Kawasaki and Alstom before these guys.

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i hate to predict it but there will be problems. 

Seems like you are very well versed in their portfolio and know more then a lot about them plus if you ask most railfans about CRRC and it's former entities about 95% would say who huh? 

 

I'd trust bombardier Kawasaki and Alstom before these guys.

 

There are problems with every​ order because subway cars are custom-designed vehicles. They all have to go through a full design-engineering-prototype cycle. I actually don't know much about CRRC because they were formed last year, but I think there's a lot of unjustified bias against them simply because they are Chinese. Like I said, nobody has ever heard of these companies before because they've never produced anything for the North American market. It's funny you say you would trust Bombardier over CRRC because I would trust CRRC over Bombardier in their current state. The BART cars are running into serious issues, the TTC Flexity order is significantly delayed, and the R179 order is also significantly delayed. Yet, CRRC's MBTA order is on schedule and there have been no complaints about the quality of their work thus far by MBTA employees. I think we need to give them a chance.

 

 

I have to say I'm quite surprised everyone is awarding the contracts without them having put out a successful US order. Even if CRRC has successful orders elsewhere, those cars were not coming out of Springfield using that supply chain. Even 'experienced' manufacturers have had problems in the US like Bombardier, and SEPTA's own Hyundai Rotem.

 

CRRC is scoring very well on their technical merits and they are also underbidding their competition by a significant margin.

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 I actually don't know much about CRRC because they were formed last year, but I think there's a lot of unjustified bias against them simply because they are Chinese. 

I'd actually say thats justified because CRRC is partially state run by the Chinese government. This allows them to receive untold numbers of cash, which then allows for them to undercut every one else...

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So what if they undercut everyone else? That's their advantage. How does that affect the quality of their work? They still need to be responsible if they want to earn more business.

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So what if they undercut everyone else? That's their advantage. How does that affect the quality of their work? They still need to be responsible if they want to earn more business.

With foreign government money? That's a problem...
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How is that a problem? If they can get the job done, why does it matter where their funding comes from?

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How is that a problem? If they can get the job done, why does it matter where their funding comes from?

The problem here is that since the government propping them up, they can form a monopoly in the transit business by extremely low bidding everyone else. By law they have to get the contract and the Chinese gov't pays them the difference...

 

This then means they have no accountability whatsoever to put out a quality product. Pull these games and you'll get contracts no matter what...

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The problem here is that since the government propping them up, they can form a monopoly in the transit business by extremely low bidding everyone else. By law they have to get the contract and the Chinese gov't pays them the difference...

 

This then means they have no accountability whatsoever to put out a quality product. Pull these games and you'll get contracts no matter what...

Quality is a thing of the past....

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The problem here is that since the government propping them up, they can form a monopoly in the transit business by extremely low bidding everyone else. By law they have to get the contract and the Chinese gov't pays them the difference...

 

This then means they have no accountability whatsoever to put out a quality product. Pull these games and you'll get contracts no matter what...

 

plus our presidents rhetoric on china believes they are ripping us off and able to just dump their product for nothing 

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