Queens Community Board 14 Withdraws their support for the Woodhaven Blvd SBS

[RailRunRob]

You also have to consider cost. Each SBS station costs $200,000 for fare kiosks. Maybe it is worth it to tap to pay even if it is slightly slower. Don't forget they still would be entering using three doors versus one. So it still would be three times quicker than. On-SBS boarding. Maybe they just don't allow paying with coins on SBS to avoid fare kiosks. How many use coins anyway these days? 5 percent?

Makes sense a lot of the cost is upfront cost Utility and infrastructure power, networking, foundation work with permits. Old Apple coworker's of mine work and run the company Intersection they build out all the Wifi hotspots and the MTA info kiosks. A lot of similarities there with the upfronts. Updating fare kiosks would cost a fraction your Infrastructure is there already so I wouldn't worry too much. As I said before the new MTA technology is already in use. Öyster, Ventura we don't have to look to far to see how to implemented it. True 3 times faster than a Metro Card. That isn't your point of reference anymore how do you make SBS faster than standard bus boarding (Tap to Pay)?. Walk right on. 

[RailRunRob]

Case and point

There's using Cubic technology the same the MTA's going to get.  

 

 

http://www.transitchicago.com/belmontprepaid/

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You can talk generalities all you want. How great BRT is all over the world. That doesn't make it great for Woodhaven Boulevard which is the subject of this discussion. Last I heard we live in a democracy. You don't favor 20 percent while ignoring the needs of 80 percent. Any good plan helps more than it hurts.

If each car loses only five minutes (many stand to lose 20 to 40 minutes), each bus passenger must save 23 minutes just for the plan to break even. That clearly will not happen. Only 11,000 daily bus riders will benefit significantly (like saving 10 or 15 minutes) while 150,000 will lose anywhere between one minute and 45 minutes.

The elephant in the room is that congestion is worsening and there's no way you can spin that. You think the city isn't purposely trying to make driving miserable? Of course they are. Since congestion pricing hasn't gone anywhere, this is the next best thing. Make commuting miserable for motorists. The only problem is it's affecting bus riders too. As far as I'm concerned Woodhaven Blvd is a losing battle unless the Community Board can have any influence over the DOT.

[BrooklynBus]

The elephant in the room is that congestion is worsening and there's no way you can spin that. You think the city isn't purposely trying to make driving miserable? Of course they are. Since congestion pricing hasn't gone anywhere, this is the next best thing. Make commuting miserable for motorists. The only problem is it's affecting bus riders too. As far as I'm concerned Woodhaven Blvd is a losing battle unless the Community Board can have any influence over the DOT.

You are pretty naive to believe the purpose of congestion pricing is to reduce congestion. The effect on congestion would be minimal. It's true purpose is to raise revenue by increasing the price of commuting. They keep talking how everyone uses the free bridges to avoid the toll bridges. Not true. Yes it exists to some extent. But if you had up the free lanes vs the toll lanes you will see the number of free lanes over the East River greatly outnumber the toll lanes. There are only four toll lanes in the peak direction when they are all open. But there are like 15 free lanes. So there isn't even enough capacity for the Hugh Carey and Queens Midtown to absorb any more traffic even if they were free. If all the East River crossings were the same price, traffic would still be distributed pretty much the same during rush hours when congestion is the greatest there.

 

And as far as mass transit and roads benefitting from the tolls, that is also a myth. What will happen is instead of paying for routine road maintenance from the city's general fund, it will cone from toll revenue instead. And how do we know that the state will not reduce its funding for mass transit even more once they see a new source of revenue for transit? Sorry but I don't trust these politicians at all after what they pulled with the lottery stating all the money will go to education and schools will improve. Before the lottery, two thirds of the state's budget went to education. After the lottery that percentage was greatly reduced and schools ended up with the same funding as before the lottery was approved.

 

So let's look at Manhattan congestion. Yes it is worse and getting worse everyday? Why. Because of DOT eliminating lanes and turns all over. How do we know? Because traffic volumes in Midtown are actually down, but congestion is up. And there are virtually no mass transit improvements to give drivers more of a choice. So continue to blame drivers and your hatred toward cars. But when I offered you a lift to the subway back in 2012, you gladly accepted. Didn't hear you say that you would rather wait for the bus. Oh yeah. There was no bus. We were trying to get it back. You would have had to walk a long way to the B36.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You are pretty naive to believe the purpose of congestion pricing is to reduce congestion. The effect on congestion would be minimal. It's true purpose is to raise revenue by increasing the price of commuting. They keep talking how everyone uses the free bridges to avoid the toll bridges. Not true. Yes it exists to some extent. But if you had up the free lanes vs the toll lanes you will see the number of free lanes over the East River greatly outnumber the toll lanes. There are only four toll lanes in the peak direction when they are all open. But there are like 15 free lanes. So there isn't even enough capacity for the Hugh Carey and Queens Midtown to absorb any more traffic even if they were free. If all the East River crossings were the same price, traffic would still be distributed pretty much the same during rush hours when congestion is the greatest there.

 

And as far as mass transit and roads benefitting from the tolls, that is also a myth. What will happen is instead of paying for routine road maintenance from the city's general fund, it will cone from toll revenue instead. And how do we know that the state will not reduce its funding for mass transit even more once they see a new source of revenue for transit? Sorry but I don't trust these politicians at all after what they pulled with the lottery stating all the money will go to education and schools will improve. Before the lottery, two thirds of the state's budget went to education. After the lottery that percentage was greatly reduced and schools ended up with the same funding as before the lottery was approved.

 

So let's look at Manhattan congestion. Yes it is worse and getting worse everyday? Why. Because of DOT eliminating lanes and turns all over. How do we know? Because traffic volumes in Midtown are actually down, but congestion is up. And there are virtually no mass transit improvements to give drivers more of a choice. So continue to blame drivers and your hatred toward cars. But when I offered you a lift to the subway back in 2012, you gladly accepted. Didn't hear you say that you would rather wait for the bus. Oh yeah. There was no bus. We were trying to get it back. You would have had to walk a long way to the B36.

Traffic volume is down based on what source? So you're trying to tell me that fewer cars are on the road despite dirt cheap gas AND a substantial growth in population? I don't buy it.  Now if you want to argue that eliminating lanes and the Vision Zero plan is creating more congestion, I won't disagree with you because it is, but that isn't the entire story and you know it.  As for me taking the lift, I got down there with the BM3, but the BM3 stopped running back to the city, so I would've simply have taken the B44 to the B36 to the subway if need be, but that's besides the point.  It's rather odd that you would show up to a transportation meeting and drive there. I have to admit that I was a bit taken back by that. Isn't that a bit ironic? Then you say that the provides horrible transportation, but has any of the advocating that you've done led to any service improvements or restorations aside from that B4 meeting we attended?  In other words, I'm not so sure you care about transportation as much as you claim to.  You're a driver first, THEN a transit commuter.  At least that's the impression I've gotten from you lately based on your actions.

 

And to GojiMet, you're always up voting things just for the hell of it.  How about you add something substantial to the conversation...

[BrooklynBus]

Traffic volume is down based on what source? So you're trying to tell me that fewer cars are on the road despite dirt cheap gas AND a substantial growth in population? I don't buy it. Now if you want to argue that eliminating lanes and the Vision Zero plan is creating more congestion, I won't disagree with you because it is, but that isn't the entire story and you know it. As for me taking the lift, I got down there with the BM3, but the BM3 stopped running back to the city, so I would've simply have taken the B44 to the B36 to the subway if need be, but that's besides the point. It's rather odd that you would show up to a transportation meeting and drive there. I have to admit that I was a bit taken back by that. Isn't that a bit ironic? Then you say that the provides horrible transportation, but has any of the advocating that you've done led to any service improvements or restorations aside from that B4 meeting we attended? In other words, I'm not so sure you care about transportation as much as you claim to. You're a driver first, THEN a transit commuter. At least that's the impression I've gotten from you lately based on your actions.

 

And to GojiMet, you're always up voting things just for the hell of it. How about you add something substantial to the conversation...

So according to you, any time I go to a transportation meeting I am not allowed to drive and must use mass transit. How absolutely ridiculous? But it was alright for you to accept a ride with all your anti-car talk.

 

I use whatever mode is most convenient. I always use the subway and bus to go to my physical therapist on Kings Highway because of the scarcity of parking there and the fact that using transit only takes about ten minutes longer so it makes sense to use it. I drove to the Queens Community Board meeting. It took 20 minutes each way. Do you know how long it would have taken by mass transit? About 90 minutes there and 2 hours or more to go home with at least three buses or multiple trains and buses on a freezing night. But although I have a car according to you, because it was a transit meeting, I should have left it home and used mass transit. And because I didn't do that, I am not a mass transit advocate. How utterly ridiculous. You are making about as much sense as SBS makes for Woodhaven Blvd.

 

As far as traffic volumes, I read that Midtown traffic levels are less than they were a few years ago. I am not talking about traffic levels in general. It could be very true that it is up everywhere else. My comment only referred to midtown.

 

As far as what my advocating has done, of course you know about the Southwest Brooklyn bus changes in 1978. If it was up to the City Planning Department, they would have been happy with just producing a report to gather dust on the shelf. It was only through my relentless advocating that anything got done.

 

I accomplished a few things in my short time in Planning at the MTA but not that much.

 

As for recently, I have been complaining to the MTA for nine years about B1 buses not stopping although they had room for more passengers. I had at least a half dozen meetings with Road Operations and endless e-mails. Finally they spoke to each bus driver, and I have not seen this happen for the past three months. Every passenger is now getting picked up. It shouldn't have taken nine years of complaining but it did. I am trying to get other things done also.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So according to you, any time I go to a transportation meeting I am not allowed to drive and must use mass transit. How absolutely ridiculous? But it was alright for you to accept a ride with all your anti-car talk.

 

I use whatever mode is most convenient. I always use the subway and bus to go to my physical therapist on Kings Highway because of the scarcity of parking there and the fact that using transit only takes about ten minutes longer so it makes sense to use it. I drove to the Queens Community Board meeting. It took 20 minutes each way. Do you know how long it would have taken by mass transit? About 90 minutes there and 2 hours or more to go home with at least three buses or multiple trains and buses on a freezing night. But although I have a car according to you, because it was a transit meeting, I should have left it home and used mass transit. And because I didn't do that, I am not a mass transit advocate. How utterly ridiculous. You are making about as much sense as SBS makes for Woodhaven Blvd.

 

As far as traffic volumes, I read that Midtown traffic levels are less than they were a few years ago. I am not talking about traffic levels in general. It could be very true that it is up everywhere else. My comment only referred to midtown.

 

As far as what my advocating has done, of course you know about the Southwest Brooklyn bus changes in 1978. If it was up to the City Planning Department, they would have been happy with just producing a report to gather dust on the shelf. It was only through my relentless advocating that anything got done.

 

I accomplished a few things in my short time in Planning at the MTA but not that much.

 

As for recently, I have been complaining to the MTA for nine years about B1 buses not stopping although they had room for more passengers. I had at least a half dozen meetings with Road Operations and endless e-mails. Finally they spoke to each bus driver, and I have not seen this happen for the past three months. Every passenger is now getting picked up. It shouldn't have taken nine years of complaining but it did. I am trying to get other things done also.

Of course you can use whatever you want to get around, but I'm just giving an example of the conflicting images you put out there, and yes since you were going in the same direction, why not? Of course I'm going to take the ride, especially since there was no B4 or BM3 at that time and I wanted to get back to Riverdale in a reasonable amount of time!  If you weren't there I would've used mass transit, which is what I did for the remainder of the trip, but it helped me get home faster. 

 

I wasn't talking about planning, but rather your achievements currently.  I've helped to get several routes restored in South Brooklyn.  I think you've been focusing wayyyyy too much on the B1 and B49.  There are other bus routes around you know.  Regarding Woodhaven Blvd. SBS will be a big benefit for the bus riders along that corridor, and I don't know why you can't see that.  You are just so overtaken by the lane situation that you can't see past that.  It's really unfortunate.

[BrooklynBus]

Of course you can use whatever you want to get around, but I'm just giving an example of the conflicting images you put out there, and yes since you were going in the same direction, why not? Of course I'm going to take the ride, especially since there was no B4 or BM3 at that time and I wanted to get back to Riverdale in a reasonable amount of time!  If you weren't there I would've used mass transit, which is what I did for the remainder of the trip, but it helped me get home faster. 

 

I wasn't talking about planning, but rather your achievements currently.  I've helped to get several routes restored in South Brooklyn.  I think you've been focusing wayyyyy too much on the B1 and B49.  There are other bus routes around you know.  Regarding Woodhaven Blvd. SBS will be a big benefit for the bus riders along that corridor, and I don't know why you can't see that.  You are just so overtaken by the lane situation that you can't see past that.  It's really unfortunate.

It made sense for you to accept the ride I offered. The problem I have is that it is a little hypocritical of you to do that while criticizing me for doing the same.

 

What routes have you gotten restored in South Brooklyn?

 

And as far as the benefits of SBS on Woodhaven, it is obvious you still never looked at the presentation or you would be challenging some of the assumptions. It talks about a lot more than just the lanes. Forgetting about cars for a minute SBS does not help bus passengers anywhere as much as DOT and the MTA are claiming. Look at the presentation and then we can talk.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It made sense for you to accept the ride I offered. The problem I have is that it is a little hypocritical of you to do that while criticizing me for doing the same.

 

What routes have you gotten restored in South Brooklyn?

 

And as far as the benefits of SBS on Woodhaven, it is obvious you still never looked at the presentation or you would be challenging some of the assumptions. It talks about a lot more than just the lanes. Forgetting about cars for a minute SBS does not help bus passengers anywhere as much as DOT and the MTA are claiming. Look at the presentation and then we can talk.

After the 2010 cuts, I wrote to Senator Golden and we agreed that we would work on numerous routes.  I mentioned the B2, B4, B64, X27 and X28. I've also signed petitions for the B37 restoration, but I was probably most involved with the X28 being full restored.  I started numerous petitions for that.  The B2, B4 and B64 were restored much earlier on. My goal was to see that bus service in South Brooklyn was fully restored because the likes to think that they can bully middle class areas around and take service from them, so this was about principal and people needing their service down there.  You should be working to improve the B49.  The service on that line has deteriorated considerably.  I don't understand why you care so much about Woodhaven Blvd. anyway when you have atrocious service down in Manhattan Beach.  I do go down to the area regularly, so I do use some of the services down there.  Since service has been restored, I've used the B4 and X27 regularly.  

[BreeddekalbL]

After the 2010 cuts, I wrote to Senator Golden and we agreed that we would work on numerous routes.  I mentioned the B2, B4, B64, X27 and X28. I've also signed petitions for the B37 restoration, but I was probably most involved with the X28 being full restored.  I started numerous petitions for that.  The B2, B4 and B64 were restored much earlier on. My goal was to see that bus service in South Brooklyn was fully restored because the likes to think that they can bully middle class areas around and take service from them, so this was about principal and people needing their service down there.  You should be working to improve the B49.  The service on that line has deteriorated considerably.  I don't understand why you care so much about Woodhaven Blvd. anyway when you have atrocious service down in Manhattan Beach.  I do go down to the area regularly, so I do use some of the services down there.  Since service has been restored, I've used the B4 and X27 regularly.  

 

What happened that you had to petion for the B2?

[S78 via Hylan]

What happened that you had to petion for the B2?

It's weekend service was cut.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What happened that you had to petion for the B2?

It was cut on weekends. 

[BrooklynBus]

After the 2010 cuts, I wrote to Senator Golden and we agreed that we would work on numerous routes.  I mentioned the B2, B4, B64, X27 and X28. I've also signed petitions for the B37 restoration, but I was probably most involved with the X28 being full restored.  I started numerous petitions for that.  The B2, B4 and B64 were restored much earlier on. My goal was to see that bus service in South Brooklyn was fully restored because the likes to think that they can bully middle class areas around and take service from them, so this was about principal and people needing their service down there.  You should be working to improve the B49.  The service on that line has deteriorated considerably.  I don't understand why you care so much about Woodhaven Blvd. anyway when you have atrocious service down in Manhattan Beach.  I do go down to the area regularly, so I do use some of the services down there.  Since service has been restored, I've used the B4 and X27 regularly.  

 

 

I just typed several paragraphs and the site crashed, so let me see if I can remember what i said.

 

l wrote articles on Sheepsheadbites on restoring the B2, B4 and B64. I also collected signatures for a B4 petition.

 

Also, if you remember, the original cutback proposal for the B4 was to operate Sheepshead Bay service only during rush hours. Because of data I presented to them, they changed the proposal to begin the evening rush hour at 1:30 PM. They even told me that it was my data that changed their mind.

 

I also submitted a proposal for a B44 SBS branch to Kingsborough which would take much of the load off the B49, making it more reliable. Using irrelevant statistics, Operations Planning couldn't see the value in my proposal. when I pointed out their statistics weren't relevant, they wouldn't discuss the proposal any further.

 

B49 service has always been bad during the PM which is why I try to use the B1 from the subway. The B49 is fine in the mornings. In the PM rush there are routine 30 minute delays. Back in the 1990s, they told me that there was a problem with afternoon pullouts. Funny if they are still having the same problem. It seems to me that the only time they look into problems is when there are complaints. No one complains and it's business as usual. That's no way to operate service.

 

I care about Woodhaven because I use it about every weekend and I don't want my trip to take longer. It already takes about ten minutes longer now than when I used it daily 11 years ago. I don't need another 15 minutes added to my trip. A bus lane just between Queens Blvd and Eliot Avenue would add five more minutes.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

Ridiculous.

 

Car owner ≠ anti-transit...

 

Now that that's out the way, be careful what you wish for with that... Have you have car owners (like myself) solely "roll with cars" & you will have even more cars on the road - Guaranteed.... Fostering divisiveness like is NOT what you want occurring in this city..... You think the amount of griping from those throughout NYC regarding slow buses is bad now..... Hah!

 

You should be advocating for more car owners "rolling" with buses.....

 

Like any SBS route, period.

 

Take into consideration how many people that utilize the metrocard that don't have a] bank accounts and b] credit/debit cards....

 

There's your answer.

 

Within that paragraph, he's referring to the easy pay metrocard the whole time.....

A phone isn't needed to use an EZP card, only MGT.

Balance protection and the ability to mitigate MetroCard issues without hassle and an automated telephone system is worth the trade off.

 

BTW I don't have a traditional bank account either. If NYers choose not to step up, that's up to them.

 

 

 

Sent from my m8 using Tapatalk

[Around the Horn]

If NYers choose not to step up, that's up to them.

 

 

 

Sent from my m8 using Tapatalk

If you chose to not recognize the major problems with your proposal to move everybody to EasyPay, that's up to you.

[checkmatechamp13]

Of course you can use whatever you want to get around, but I'm just giving an example of the conflicting images you put out there, and yes since you were going in the same direction, why not? Of course I'm going to take the ride, especially since there was no B4 or BM3 at that time and I wanted to get back to Riverdale in a reasonable amount of time!  If you weren't there I would've used mass transit, which is what I did for the remainder of the trip, but it helped me get home faster. 

 

I wasn't talking about planning, but rather your achievements currently.  I've helped to get several routes restored in South Brooklyn.  I think you've been focusing wayyyyy too much on the B1 and B49.  There are other bus routes around you know.  Regarding Woodhaven Blvd. SBS will be a big benefit for the bus riders along that corridor, and I don't know why you can't see that.  You are just so overtaken by the lane situation that you can't see past that.  It's really unfortunate.

 

So you're saying he should've taken the B49-B36-B44 (which is 3 buses and two fares each way, which is more expensive than driving) and tied himself down with the schedule, when he has a car sitting in his driveway? The same way it made sense for you to accept the ride instead of taking the B44-B36 to the subway is the same way it made sense for him to use his car 

 

As for his achievements currently, let's say the only thing he's achieved is the improvements to B1 service for Brighton/Manhattan Beach riders. (Buses running nonstop from KCC and also deadheading back from Ocean Parkway to KCC instead of running in-service). Those are still improvements he fought long and hard for, which an anti-mass transit person wouldn't do.

 

And like he said, there's also all of his work with the B4, which you can't deny has resulted in improvements.

 

And even for proposals that weren't actually implemented, if he honestly thinks there's a need and it would be worth the investment to make service better, then there's no need to ignore proposals like having the B44-SBS send alternate trips to KCC. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So you're saying he should've taken the B49-B36-B44 (which is 3 buses and two fares each way, which is more expensive than driving) and tied himself down with the schedule, when he has a car sitting in his driveway? The same way it made sense for you to accept the ride instead of taking the B44-B36 to the subway is the same way it made sense for him to use his car 

 

As for his achievements currently, let's say the only thing he's achieved is the improvements to B1 service for Brighton/Manhattan Beach riders. (Buses running nonstop from KCC and also deadheading back from Ocean Parkway to KCC instead of running in-service). Those are still improvements he fought long and hard for, which an anti-mass transit person wouldn't do.

 

And like he said, there's also all of his work with the B4, which you can't deny has resulted in improvements.

 

And even for proposals that weren't actually implemented, if he honestly thinks there's a need and it would be worth the investment to make service better, then there's no need to ignore proposals like having the B44-SBS send alternate trips to KCC. 

I said what I said earlier and there's really no need to repeat myself.  That work with the B4 was from him being a planner, not as a regular individual.  Please.  

[checkmatechamp13]

I said what I said earlier and there's really no need to repeat myself.  That work with the B4 was from him being a planner, not as a regular individual.  Please.  

 

He wasn't a planner when the B4 was restored. 

[BrooklynBus]

I said what I said earlier and there's really no need to repeat myself.  That work with the B4 was from him being a planner, not as a regular individual.  Please.

 

What does that have to do with anything? You asked me what I have done recently besides the B4 so I replied. I wasn't a planner when I fought for the B4, but I was using my Planning experience, so I really don't understand what point you are trying to make. Checkmate and I have already shot through your arguments about me not being for transit. Your example about me using my car was just ridiculous and hypocritical. You just keep repeating how good SBS is but you won't discuss any specifics. Being against SBS does not make someone anti-mass transit.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

He wasn't a planner when the B4 was restored.

 

You said improvements, not restorations, and to be frank, a lot of people worked to get the B4 restored, so your point is moot. My idea of an improvement is not restoration of service but taking the line and making it better in some other way. Service restorations are a whole different ballgame in my book, because it usually means starting from nothing.

What does that have to do with anything? You asked me what I have done recently besides the B4 so I replied. I wasn't a planner when I fought for the B4, but I was using my Planning experience, so I really don't understand what point you are trying to make. Checkmate and I have already shot through your arguments about me not being for transit. Your example about me using my car was just ridiculous and hypocritical. You just keep repeating how good SBS is but you won't discuss any specifics. Being against SBS does not make someone anti-mass transit.

And refusing to acknowledge that SBS has benefits sure as hell isn't pro transit. You have taken every opportunity to slam SBS service, and to sit here and say that cars should be THE priority on Woodhaven Blvd over buses is just absurd. Do you see how many people use the buses along that corridor? Have you even used any of the routes along Woodhaven Blvd.? I certainly have. If anything there should be a compromise reached about the layout going forward, but whatever it is, buses should take priority over motorists. I've spoken plenty about the pluses and minuses of sbs service in plenty of threads. You've just chosen to ignore them.

[B35 via Church]

A phone isn't needed to use an EZP card, only MGT.

Balance protection and the ability to mitigate MetroCard issues without hassle and an automated telephone system is worth the trade off.

 

BTW I don't have a traditional bank account either. If NYers choose not to step up, that's up to them.

1) Who said anything about a phone being needed to use a card?

I don't know what universe you're floating on, but let's get back to earth here.....

 

2) You can state the supposed benefits of an easy pay metrocard to someone that doesn't have the means to benefit from it to begin with, until you are blue in the face - it won't change people's circumstances and/or preferences.... Try to sell someone that has to run to a check cashing place to draw out funds, on a way to obtain a metrocard that links to a damn credit or debit card they don't have!!!!

 

Also, what everyday commuter really wants to deal with the MTA - outside of paying their fare & hopping on whatever mode of choice to get to/from whatever destination..... Get the frickin thing (metrocard) through an MVM & call it a.... whatever the shelf-life of a metrocard is... Far less of a hassle than what you have to do in order to obtain those easy pay cards..... You & your ilk can have at those things....

 

3) Resorting to shaming tactics says enough..... Pardon me & the rest of us that refuses to make the ascension up "steps", that aren't all gung-ho of the idea of our funds being taken out of our accounts to refill a metrocard....

 

I'd rather miss a train being at an MVM refilling an unlimited card... I'll live.

 

If you chose to not recognize the major problems with your proposal to move everybody to EasyPay, that's on you.

fixed it for ya.

 

Yup..... If he chooses to exhibit naivete when it comes down to how the masses pay for their NON easy pay metrocards, it's on him.

[checkmatechamp13]

@VG8: When the B4 was cut back to rush hours it was supposed to start at 4pm in the evening rush. It started at 2pm thanks to Brooklyn us showing the ride counts to the planners. And if it doesn't count in your book try telling that to the people who didn't realize they were on the first bus of the afternoon.

 

And by that logic the X28, B2, and B64 weren't improved either so you can't take credit for those. It works both ways.

 

As for SBS his arguments against it have more than just taking lanes away from cars. Bus stop spacing and declination of service on the local are also brought up.

[BrooklynBus]

And refusing to acknowledge that SBS has benefits sure as hell isn't pro transit. You have taken every opportunity to slam SBS service, and to sit here and say that cars should be THE priority on Woodhaven Blvd over buses is just absurd. Do you see how many people use the buses along that corridor? Have you even used any of the routes along Woodhaven Blvd.? I certainly have. If anything there should be a compromise reached about the layout going forward, but whatever it is, buses should take priority over motorists. I've spoken plenty about the pluses and minuses of sbs service in plenty of threads. You've just chosen to ignore them.

Who's refusing to acknowledge that SBS has benefits? That statement proves you are still arguing for SBS without even bothering to read the presentation. The presentation acknowledges the benefits of SBS. It states those traveling long distances on the bus can save significant amounts of time. The problem is that most local passengers travel short distances and will only minimally save time when considering their total trip time, not just considering the time spent riding the bus as DOT is doing. For most bus passengers, the time savings will be minimal or just a wash.

 

Some bus passengers will even have longer trips. And express bus passengers will also be hurt because of the plan's poor design that the community opposed. Express buses will get stuck behind stopped local and SBS buses on the main roadway of Woodhaven because there is no bus passing lane and cars won't let buses around the stopped buses when the road is gridlocked during the rush hours.

 

And of course cars should have priority on Woodhaven since they count for 80 percent of motor vehicle usage. About 150,000 daily users as compared to 33,000 for bus passengers. To think otherwise is ridiculous.

 

And yes I see how many people use buses on Woodhaven. Outside of rush hours and summer beach crowds, most buses carry 20 passengers or less, not exactly heavy usage. On a weekend, I can drive from the Belt to Queens Blvd and pass three or fewer buses.

 

And yes I have used the Q53 about a half dozen times in the summer to go to the beach.

 

You say there should be a compromise going forward regarding the layout. That is exactly what the presentation, that you have never read, recommends. The problem is that DOT refuses to compromise.

 

Yes, you have talked about the pluses of SBS in general, but none of your comments have been specific to this corridor. I haven't chosen to ignore anything you said. You just haven't said anything about Woodhaven other than buses need to take priority over cars.

 

The goal of any transportation improvement plan is to help more than it hurts. Every bus passenger would have to save about 22 minutes and no car could lose more than five minutes just for this plan to be a zero sum plan.

 

For it to be a good plan, every bus passenger would have to save more than 22 minutes and no car lose more than five minutes. Adding a bus lane just for two blocks between Eliot and Queens Blvd will slow car trips by five minutes. The entire bus lane will add 20 to 40 minutes for long car trips.

 

There is no way that more people will benefit than will be harmed by this plan. The total minutes lost will greatly exceed the total minutes gained.

[Mtatransit]

So why does the community not fight for the Rockaway Beach restoration. Believe it or not the same people will complain that it will cause a decline to their quality of Life. The proposal listed in the presentation is unacceptable. HOV Lanes rush hr, no bus lane off peak? What's the point of SBS then? Bus Lanes could be at the curb of the service road, with sidewalk improvements, and a loss of a few parking space, and enforced, but many people won't be happy either. I have a feeling many people around this area just don't want to compromise, they seem to want to take the cake and eat it too. Just a few general question regarding car usage, where is all the cars on Woodhaven heading to/from the LIE or Queens Bl?, seems to me that many car users also go short distance along Woodhaven too.

[B35 via Church]

Instead of quoting anybody, I'll do this like this....

 

Hell, even if it saved 22 minutes for bus riders with no personal vehicle losing any amount of time whatsoever, I still wouldn't be sold that SBS would be this great thing for the Woodhaven corridor.... On top of that, when it comes to bus service along Woodhaven/Cross Bay, I'm still (and will remain) stuck on the fact that this Q52 LTD unnecessarily exists..... Concurrently, just how far down the shitter the Q11 has gone as well.....

 

So now you have all these frickin LTD's running up & down Woodhaven/Cross Bay, with little regard for local service.....Talk about dictation of service; who needs choices when you have this great agency frontloading one type of service to its patrons like that - and this is coming from someone that's been (and still is) an advocate of LTD service.... Much of nobody likes to mention excess when it comes to public transportation, but the stark discrepancy of LTD's to locals along that corridor is blatantly as such - Excessive....

 

Enter SBS into the mix & it would only exacerbate matters.... Of the SBS routes that have a local parasite counterpart (if you can even categorize it as such, as it relates to SBS), there has not been ONE route where the QUALITY of local service remained stagnant, let alone gotten better.... So I'm not seeing what exactly is there to be optimistic about... Not only regarding local service, but how much lightyears better this service (supposedly) is, over LTD service..... I don't know about you all, but I can honestly say I never drank kool-aid (literally & figuratively), and I don't plan on doing it now.

 

When it comes down to it, I believe the MTA is going to throw the kitchen sink (id est, the sheer # of physical SBS buses) at Woodhaven riders to make a statement & prove a point to CB14 & other naysayers & antagonists..... Then on cue & without fail, mislead the general public on how much of an improvement it ended up being 1,2,3+ years after its inception....

 

I will say this until the cows come home... Generally speaking, SBS is a bastardized attempt @ BRT & the fact that it's been force-fed onto NYC commuters the way it has, AFAIC, says more than enough about the failure that it is.... And as time progresses, I'm finding that these SBS routes are being more & more whimsically thrown onto these routes.... Hmpf, I wonder why....

 

So Queens CB14 withdraws their support for Woodhaven SBS.... Good for them.

My real stance on that.... is it shouldn't have existed in any facet to begin with.

 

...B35, out.