Queens Community Board 14 Withdraws their support for the Woodhaven Blvd SBS

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

The thing is how many folks involved in CB14 are aware of what's going on with the other SBS routes to make the judgment based on that. If the other community boards along Woodhaven support this then it amounts to nothing anyway.

 

The way I see it is that CB14 folks are looking for an excuse to oppose the thing thus allowing BrooklynBus to swarm in with his transit knowledge and present actual reasons why they should. The excuse they would have to fall back upon without the presentation provided is where I find some shaky ground.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

If you chose to not recognize the major problems with your proposal to move everybody to EasyPay, that's up to you.

By no means am I out of touch. I stand by my remarks. New Yorkers need to take responsibility for this decrepit system.

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

Who's refusing to acknowledge that SBS has benefits? That statement proves you are still arguing for SBS without even bothering to read the presentation. The presentation acknowledges the benefits of SBS. It states those traveling long distances on the bus can save significant amounts of time. The problem is that most local passengers travel short distances and will only minimally save time when considering their total trip time, not just considering the time spent riding the bus as DOT is doing. For most bus passengers, the time savings will be minimal or just a wash.

 

Some bus passengers will even have longer trips. And express bus passengers will also be hurt because of the plan's poor design that the community opposed. Express buses will get stuck behind stopped local and SBS buses on the main roadway of Woodhaven because there is no bus passing lane and cars won't let buses around the stopped buses when the road is gridlocked during the rush hours.

 

And of course cars should have priority on Woodhaven since they count for 80 percent of motor vehicle usage. About 150,000 daily users as compared to 33,000 for bus passengers. To think otherwise is ridiculous.

 

And yes I see how many people use buses on Woodhaven. Outside of rush hours and summer beach crowds, most buses carry 20 passengers or less, not exactly heavy usage. On a weekend, I can drive from the Belt to Queens Blvd and pass three or fewer buses.

 

And yes I have used the Q53 about a half dozen times in the summer to go to the beach.

 

You say there should be a compromise going forward regarding the layout. That is exactly what the presentation, that you have never read, recommends. The problem is that DOT refuses to compromise.

 

Yes, you have talked about the pluses of SBS in general, but none of your comments have been specific to this corridor. I haven't chosen to ignore anything you said. You just haven't said anything about Woodhaven other than buses need to take priority over cars.

 

The goal of any transportation improvement plan is to help more than it hurts. Every bus passenger would have to save about 22 minutes and no car could lose more than five minutes just for this plan to be a zero sum plan.

 

For it to be a good plan, every bus passenger would have to save more than 22 minutes and no car lose more than five minutes. Adding a bus lane just for two blocks between Eliot and Queens Blvd will slow car trips by five minutes. The entire bus lane will add 20 to 40 minutes for long car trips.

 

There is no way that more people will benefit than will be harmed by this plan. The total minutes lost will greatly exceed the total minutes gained.

LOL!  You are sadly mistaken about the usage because I see packed buses outside of the rush, especially on weekends. In fact it is so bad that they even have buses starting further up the line so that so many people aren't flagged.  As for the presentation,  this is about YOU not what the presentation says.  You have been slamming the service more than anything. I'm not of a proponent of SBS, but it's step in the right direction in terms of modernizing the system.  My problem with SBS and bus service in general is that the "improvements" don't go far enough. We still have a VERY antiquated system, and part of it stems from folks like yourself you think that it should be a "fair game" in a city where the majority depends on mass transit.  Our buses and trains should take priority over motorists. It's that simple. 

 

I find it troubling that now you're trying to minimize (and blatantly I may add) bus usage along the corridor to suit your agenda. I also don't see your point about express buses.  They already run behind the local buses for most of their trip along Woodhaven Blvd. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The thing is how many folks involved in CB14 are aware of what's going on with the other SBS routes to make the judgment based on that. If the other community boards along Woodhaven support this then it amounts to nothing anyway.

 

The way I see it is that CB14 folks are looking for an excuse to oppose the thing thus allowing BrooklynBus to swarm in with his transit knowledge and present actual reasons why they should. The excuse they would have to fall back upon without the presentation provided is where I find some shaky ground.

It's simple.  They don't give a damn about public transit and want to find any excuse to justify having lanes for cars that do nothing but clog up our streets. 

[Mtatransit]

The problem I have with SBS is that it doesn't go far enough in differentiating between BRT and regular Limited Bus Service. This is one of the only one that actually differentiates itself, and the opposition is threatening to turn this into a glorified Limited again. (And therefore more ammunition for those who oppose SBS)

[GojiMet86]

SBS has always been a glorified Limited service. Painting bus lanes and having off-board payment has not changed the fact that SBS is not BRT.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

SBS has always been a glorified Limited service. Painting bus lanes and having off-board payment has not changed the fact that SBS is not BRT.

That's true, but what's also disturbing is that it's taken this long for this service to be implemented.  They had this in Europe back in the early 2000s!  I mean really, why has it taken this long to have off-board payment?  Not only that but we still have very limited instances of signal priority, limited information in terms of where buses go (that's another big problem - the commuters seem to be complete idiots when it comes to which bus they need, whereas in Europe it seemed like people knew for the most part how things worked). The needs to do more to educate the riding public and they need to be more aggressive in finding ways to improve bus service overall, and throwing SBS service on bus lines isn't the answer.  It's just a start as far as I'm concerned.   The problem with buses goes much further than just SBS.  They need to do a campaign to better understand ridership patterns.  Buses are viewed as slow (they are).  There are too many rude drivers who do whatever the hell they want too.

 

Perfect example is last Sunday. I'm on 5th and 53rd waiting for the bus.  Two M5 buses come.  The first one blows right by us and puts up a Limited Stop sign, even though there is no M5 limited stop service on Sunday.  The next bus is only going to 42nd street so he too wants to bypass us, but I put up my hand as if to say what in the hell is going on here.  Only then does he stop.  He then asks why the other guy didn't pick up and why he was running as a "Limited Stop" bus even though he wasn't since he was making stops elsewhere.  The whole thing is a mess.  Still not enough vigilance being done of drivers either to ensure that they're providing professional and courteous service.  Guy stopped practically in the middle of the street, didn't kneel the bus and I had to step up on that high bus.  

[BrooklynBus]

So why does the community not fight for the Rockaway Beach restoration. Believe it or not the same people will complain that it will cause a decline to their quality of Life. The proposal listed in the presentation is unacceptable. HOV Lanes rush hr, no bus lane off peak? What's the point of SBS then? Bus Lanes could be at the curb of the service road, with sidewalk improvements, and a loss of a few parking space, and enforced, but many people won't be happy either. I have a feeling many people around this area just don't want to compromise, they seem to want to take the cake and eat it too. Just a few general question regarding car usage, where is all the cars on Woodhaven heading to/from the LIE or Queens Bl?, seems to me that many car users also go short distance along Woodhaven too.

The community is fighting for the Rockaway Beach restoration. Most of the opposition is and always has been from Rego Park who already have a quick trip to midtown. He. We don't need bus lanes off peak. From 10 to 3 and after 7 and on weekends buses are traveling at top speed anyway. They will not benefit from exclusive lanes. When driving, it takes me a half mile to catch up with an SBS bus. DOT even told me privately that buses will not save time during non rush hours. They just want to keep everything simple by having them in effect 24/7 like on Richmond Avenue in Staten Island when there are bus lanes in effect during hours when no buses are even running. They also are looking for ways to punish drivers and make life more difficult for them. HOV lanes would encourage car pooling. The communities recommended curbside lanes.

 

Most cars on Woodhaven are making long trips with Woodhaven only being one leg of that trip. Trips where they can't take the bus. They can't be making short trips since left turns are severely limited anyway like once every half mile. DOT wanted to make that once a mile.

[checkmatechamp13]

The community is fighting for the Rockaway Beach restoration. Most of the opposition is and always has been from Rego Park who already have a quick trip to midtown. He. We don't need bus lanes off peak. From 10 to 3 and after 7 and on weekends buses are traveling at top speed anyway. They will not benefit from exclusive lanes. When driving, it takes me a half mile to catch up with an SBS bus. DOT even told me privately that buses will not save time during non rush hours. They just want to keep everything simple by having them in effect 24/7 like on Richmond Avenue in Staten Island when there are bus lanes in effect during hours when no buses are even running. They also are looking for ways to punish drivers and make life more difficult for them. HOV lanes would encourage car pooling. The communities recommended curbside lanes.

 

Most cars on Woodhaven are making long trips with Woodhaven only being one leg of that trip. Trips where they can't take the bus. They can't be making short trips since left turns are severely limited anyway like once every half mile. DOT wanted to make that once a mile.

 

 

Part of the reason for the 24/7 bus lanes on Richmond is to reduce off-peak speeding (but on a different note, there really should be 24/7 service in that area, if not on the S79 then on the S59). Richmond Avenue is like 6 lanes wide in each direction in that area. Bu yes, I do agree that they should be made peak-only like the Hylan Blvd lanes.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

So tourists are going to be SOL? You're fine with this?

No.

 

In fact, I would support a specialized program that allows them to "create a card" for their special day. Like a birthday card with money, except with an EZP MC complete with directions, tips with regard to service changes and known scams.

 

Tourists are most susceptible to scams and I feel by putting them online it helps avoid liabilities and casualties, fiscal or otherwise.

 

In addition, they can choose which station booth to pick up their folio. If they come from Penna, they can ask the agent. They'll present a passphrase they typed when they set up the card.

 

The passphrase can be any word, any language they want as long as it matches the right folio.

 

If anything, Transit MUST accommodate tourism, especially in an administration that is making it toxic.

 

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[Around the Horn]

  I can't with this   

[Around the Horn]

By no means am I out of touch. I stand by my remarks. New Yorkers need to take responsibility for this decrepit system.

 

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1. I never said you were out of touch. I said you were stubborn. There is a difference.

 

2. I rarely go this far but in this case I will: Your plan is terrible, for multiple reasons which have been outlined by myself, B35 and Cait.

 

3. Taking responsibility for this system has absolutely nothing to do with your ridiculous proposal to move everybody to Easy Pay MetroCards...

[BrooklynBus]

LOL! You are sadly mistaken about the usage because I see packed buses outside of the rush, especially on weekends. In fact it is so bad that they even have buses starting further up the line so that so many people aren't flagged. As for the presentation, this is about YOU not what the presentation says. You have been slamming the service more than anything. I'm not of a proponent of SBS, but it's step in the right direction in terms of modernizing the system. My problem with SBS and bus service in general is that the "improvements" don't go far enough. We still have a VERY antiquated system, and part of it stems from folks like yourself you think that it should be a "fair game" in a city where the majority depends on mass transit. Our buses and trains should take priority over motorists. It's that simple.

 

I find it troubling that now you're trying to minimize (and blatantly I may add) bus usage along the corridor to suit your agenda. I also don't see your point about express buses. They already run behind the local buses for most of their trip along Woodhaven Blvd.

 

The only time you would see packed buses is when they are running a half hour late. If they are running late because of traffic, then the running times need to be made realistic. If the actual travel time is 90 minutes, you don't use 60 minute running times and expect Operations to run smoothly.

 

The only other times buses are backed are on summer beach days and they remain packed till 8 PM. I still maintain that other times the buses are relatively empty. If they are crowded for other reasons, all that means is that you need a few more buses.

 

My point is SBS has its place and I agree it is not a panacea that solves all problems as the MTA contends, but it has no place on Woodhaven Blvd, at least the way it is currently proposed.

 

So you believe express buses don't pass local buses presently on Woodhaven? That would be ridiculous if that were the case. An "express" bus that just follows a local isn't express at all.

 

You keep talking about the majority using mass transit to justify SBS on Woodhaven. Well, on Woodhaven the vast majority DO NOT use mass transit. Only about 20 percent do. So you are not making much of an argument to help your case. You say it is simple. Well it's not simple at all. You can't give all the priority to 20 percent of the users.

It's simple. They don't give a damn about public transit and want to find any excuse to justify having lanes for cars that do nothing but clog up our streets.

 

You say it's simple that they don't give a damn about public transit. Untrue. They care very much about mass transit. What is simple is your hypocritic hatred of cars. You can use a car when it suits you, but no one else should.

 

"didn't kneel the bus and I had to step up on that high bus."

 

LOL that at your age, you are already complaining about the high step.

 

SBS has always been a glorified Limited service. Painting bus lanes and having off-board payment has not changed the fact that SBS is not BRT.

Part of the problem is that DOT keeps muddling the two terms and uses them interchangeably.

 

They say they can do SBS for $10 million, but it would cost another $200 to $400 million to do more. And I heard that even if they spend $400 million, it still wouldn't be true BRT. So the question remains how much would full BRT cost and if it really costs up to or over forty times as much, does it provide 40 times the benefit of SBS. If not, why do it?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The only time you would see packed buses is when they are running a half hour late. If they are running late because of traffic, then the running times need to be made realistic. If the actual travel time is 90 minutes, you don't use 60 minute running times and expect Operations to run smoothly.

 

The only other times buses are backed are on summer beach days and they remain packed till 8 PM. I still maintain that other times the buses are relatively empty. If they are crowded for other reasons, all that means is that you need a few more buses.

 

My point is SBS has its place and I agree it is not a panacea that solves all problems as the MTA contends, but it has no place on Woodhaven Blvd, at least the way it is currently proposed.

 

So you believe express buses don't pass local buses presently on Woodhaven? That would be ridiculous if that were the case. An "express" bus that just follows a local isn't express at all.

 

You keep talking about the majority using mass transit to justify SBS on Woodhaven. Well, on Woodhaven the vast majority DO NOT use mass transit. Only about 20 percent do. So you are not making much of an argument to help your case. You say it is simple. Well it's not simple at all. You can't give all the priority to 20 percent of the users.

 

You say it's simple that they don't give a damn about public transit. Untrue. They care very much about mass transit. What is simple is your hypocritic hatred of cars. You can use a car when it suits you, but no one else should.

Of course express buses pass local buses, but the QM15 for example runs behind the local bus in certain parts of Woodhaven Blvd.  In other words, they run in the same lane at times, and in those cases, yes,t he QM15 runs right behind the local bus.  

 

Your other claim is interesting.  You're trying to justify not providing better transportation for those "20%" as you claim (I think it's higher but let's go with that) so that people that drive four door cars can continue to clog up Woodhaven Blvd with their cars?  I get so irritated seeing person after person in their car (the SOLE person by the way) while those of us who use public transportation (and sacrifice) get the pleasure of being stuck in traffic.  You still haven't conceded that congestion IS a problem largely caused by motorists and you won't.

[danielhg121]

Buses in general are basically timeshare for a relatively low price. Cars are for those that don't feel like putting up with the bus and that number keeps growing.

 

 

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[BrooklynBus]

Of course express buses pass local buses, but the QM15 for example runs behind the local bus in certain parts of Woodhaven Blvd.  In other words, they run in the same lane at times, and in those cases, yes,t he QM15 runs right behind the local bus.  

 

Your other claim is interesting.  You're trying to justify not providing better transportation for those "20%" as you claim (I think it's higher but let's go with that) so that people that drive four door cars can continue to clog up Woodhaven Blvd with their cars?  I get so irritated seeing person after person in their car (the SOLE person by the way) while those of us who use public transportation (and sacrifice) get the pleasure of being stuck in traffic.  You still haven't conceded that congestion IS a problem largely caused by motorists and you won't.

The point about express buses passing local buses is that when the local pulls into a bus stop that the Q15 does not stop at, it can and does go around it. Under the new proposal with the rush hour gridlock that will occur on the main roadway, the Q15 will have no choice but to wait until the local finishes loading and unloading. This would not be the case if the lane was on the service road.

 

And no I am not trying to justify not improving service for the 20 percent. If you would bother to read the presentation, you would see exactly what I am proposing to improve service for that 20 percent and what I am proposing to reduce auto congestion as well. But let's not get the facts put in the way of your conclusions. And motorists contribute to congestion along with DOT's policies of reducing the number of traffic lanes which they already did along parts of Woodhaven as well as eliminating the 88 Street alternative to bypass the LIRR overpass, greatly increasing traffic congestion there.

Buses in general are basically timeshare for a relatively low price. Cars are for those that don't feel like putting up with the bus and that number keeps growing.

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They don't like putting up with the bus because it is unreliable and inferior. Many improvements can be made but are not. DOT and the MTA would like us to believe that SBS is the not panacea to improve bus service when that just isn't true. If it were so great, ridership would not continue to deteriorate on most SBS routes.

[Mtatransit]

The point about express buses passing local buses is that when the local pulls into a bus stop that the Q15 does not stop at, it can and does go around it. Under the new proposal with the rush hour gridlock that will occur on the main roadway, the Q15 will have no choice but to wait until the local finishes loading and unloading. This would not be the case if the lane was on the service road.

And no I am not trying to justify not improving service for the 20 percent. If you would bother to read the presentation, you would see exactly what I am proposing to improve service for that 20 percent and what I am proposing to reduce auto congestion as well. But let's not get the facts put in the way of your conclusions. And motorists contribute to congestion along with DOT's policies of reducing the number of traffic lanes which they already did along parts of Woodhaven as well as eliminating the 88 Street alternative to bypass the LIRR overpass, greatly increasing traffic congestion there.

 

They don't like putting up with the bus because it is unreliable and inferior. Many improvements can be made but are not. DOT and the MTA would like us to believe that SBS is the not panacea to improve bus service when that just isn't true. If it were so great, ridership would not continue to deteriorate on most SBS routes.

Do you support the elimination of Parking? Maybe the entire service road could be converted to bus lane and the shoulder stop move to the right, therefore adding a extra Lane to the main Drive lane with service road decreasing by one lane(except stations where it would be two for passing purposes).

[BrooklynBus]

Do you support the elimination of Parking? Maybe the entire service road could be converted to bus lane and the shoulder stop move to the right, therefore adding a extra Lane to the main Drive lane with service road decreasing by one lane(except stations where it would be two for passing purposes).

I support elimination of parking in order to move traffic. But I am not sure what you are proposing. How are you proposing to add an extra lane to the main drive? Are you keeping buses on the main road or the service road?

[Mtatransit]

I support elimination of parking in order to move traffic. But I am not sure what you are proposing. How are you proposing to add an extra lane to the main drive? Are you keeping buses on the main road or the service road?

I mean keeping the service Lanes exclusively for buses. But right now there is 3(including parking lane). One lane could be reconstructed and relocated onto the main lanes, leaving two lanes on the service roads, (with parking totally eliminated). One lane in the curbside for buses with the outer bus lane for HOV Vehicles and passing Limited/Express Buses. Separate signals would be used on the service lanes, and HOV should be 4+

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

1. I never said you were out of touch. I said you were stubborn. There is a difference.

 

2. I rarely go this far but in this case I will: Your plan is terrible, for multiple reasons which have been outlined by myself, B35 and Cait.

 

3. Taking responsibility for this system has absolutely nothing to do with your ridiculous proposal to move everybody to Easy Pay MetroCards...

Stubbornness is my nature. It makes me more willing to bring up points others miss.

 

Mass transit has a history of leaving customers holding an empty bag. You read my tidbit on the tourist end BEFORE you replied to this comment?

 

Compared to my banter, the MTA is even less considerate.

 

It seems riders in the poorest sections of the city have the most complaints, yet cause the most trouble and the most damage.

 

I'm sticking to my guns regardless of how many of you state otherwise because I've seen the cycle at work.

 

They never represent themselves when it's needed and are a factor in why some stations don't get attention.

If I was forced to paint over graffiti every other day I'd get sick of it too and not keep wasting my brush strokes.

If people complain about losing their MetroCard and how costly it is, looking at options helps. Like EasyPay.

Too often, riders take the doomsday approach at their own expense others.

 

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[Mtatransit]

Stubbornness is my nature. It makes me more willing to bring up points others miss.

Mass transit has a history of leaving customers holding an empty bag. You read my tidbit on the tourist end BEFORE you replied to this comment?

Compared to my banter, the MTA is even less considerate.

It seems riders in the poorest sections of the city have the most complaints, yet cause the most trouble and the most damage.

I'm sticking to my guns regardless of how many of you state otherwise because I've seen the cycle at work.

They never represent themselves when it's needed and are a factor in why some stations don't get attention.

If I was forced to paint over graffiti every other day I'd get sick of it too and not keep wasting my brush strokes.

If people complain about losing their MetroCard and how costly it is, looking at options helps. Like EasyPay.

Too often, riders take the doomsday approach at their own expense others.

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One big problem, Metro Card is old, when MVM screws up or your card screws up, you can't just get a new one from the MTA in a heartbeat, it's takes 7-8 weeks. So what your proposing is we stop riding transit for 7-8 weeks? How about tourist or business people who comes to New York, that DIDN'T plan ahead to "request" a Metrocard? The goal is to encourage Public transportation, not discourage it by not having a place to buy ticket! Easy pay works for you? Good! No need to force it on everyone, who may have different circumstances than you. Imagine going to Boston and "pre request" a auto refill card, how will you feel?

[Around the Horn]

Stubbornness is my nature. It makes me more willing to bring up points others miss.

 

Mass transit has a history of leaving customers holding an empty bag. You read my tidbit on the tourist end BEFORE you replied to this comment?

 

Compared to my banter, the MTA is even less considerate.

 

It seems riders in the poorest sections of the city have the most complaints, yet cause the most trouble and the most damage.

 

I'm sticking to my guns regardless of how many of you state otherwise because I've seen the cycle at work.

 

They never represent themselves when it's needed and are a factor in why some stations don't get attention.

If I was forced to paint over graffiti every other day I'd get sick of it too and not keep wasting my brush strokes.

If people complain about losing their MetroCard and how costly it is, looking at options helps. Like EasyPay.

Too often, riders take the doomsday approach at their own expense others.

 

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Yes I did read your absurd tourist proposal before I commented.

 

If it's not as simple as putting $10 on a MetroCard is now, it's not worthy of consideration.

 

There is no reason whatsoever for the MTA to convert everyone to EasyPay...

 

I'm very glad you are nowhere near being in the position to make such a decision. I thought the incompetence and tone deafness of the MTA couldn't be topped; you are proving me wrong.

One big problem, Metro Card is old, when MVM screws up or your card screws up, you can't just get a new one from the MTA in a heartbeat, it's takes 7-8 weeks. So what your proposing is we stop riding transit for 7-8 weeks? How about tourist or business people who comes to New York, that DIDN'T plan ahead to "request" a Metrocard? The goal is to encourage Public transportation, not discourage it by not having a place to buy ticket! Easy pay works for you? Good! No need to force it on everyone, who may have different circumstances than you. Imagine going to Boston and "pre request" a auto refill card, how will you feel?

THIS 100%!

 

You have to be responsive to your ridership. You can't go around forcing things down people's throats

[BrooklynBus]

I think you are overestimating the width of the service road. First of all a parking lane is not as wide as a travel lane. And just because DOT painted a line in the service road does not mean it is wide enough for two moving lanes. I used to drive it often and can tell you most cars drive right on that white line because it was really only one lane wide. The only time it was used as two lanes was in bumper to bumper traffic when traffic was moving at only five or ten miles per hour.

 

The road is no wider than 130 feet. The service road is about 24 feet wide. Travel lanes are 11 feet wide. The side medians are five feet wide and the center median is three feet wide. So let's see if it works:

 

So you are proposing two bus lanes which would have to be 11 feet wide each. That's 44 feet total. You would still need 13 feet for the three medians (5+5+3). That leaves you with 70 feet for the center roadway. That would fit six 11 feet wide lanes with four feet left over so four of those six lanes could be 12 feet wide.

 

So the width is there but you still would have to allow cars and trucks in the right bus lane to make right turns. That is pretty much what the community wants except for the elimination of all parking. I don't see why you would have to reconstruct malls to accomplish that.

 

I can see the elimination of all parking for rush hours in the peak direction only. I don't see why it would be necessary at other times except where there are bus stops so buses can pass stopped buses.

 

I don't think 4+ is an HOV requirement anywhere. It is usually 2+ or 3+.

[Mtatransit]

I think you are overestimating the width of the service road. First of all a parking lane is not as wide as a travel lane. And just because DOT painted a line in the service road does not mean it is wide enough for two moving lanes. I used to drive it often and can tell you most cars drive right on that white line because it was really only one lane wide. The only time it was used as two lanes was in bumper to bumper traffic when traffic was moving at only five or ten miles per hour.

The road is no wider than 130 feet. The service road is about 24 feet wide. Travel lanes are 11 feet wide. The side medians are five feet wide and the center median is three feet wide. So let's see if it works:

So you are proposing two bus lanes which would have to be 11 feet wide each. That's 44 feet total. You would still need 13 feet for the three medians (5+5+3). That leaves you with 70 feet for the center roadway. That would fit six 11 feet wide lanes with four feet left over so four of those six lanes could be 12 feet wide.

So the width is there but you still would have to allow cars and trucks in the right bus lane to make right turns. That is pretty much what the community wants except for the elimination of all parking. I don't see why you would have to reconstruct malls to accomplish that.

I can see the elimination of all parking for rush hours in the peak direction only. I don't see why it would be necessary at other times except where there are bus stops so buses can pass stopped buses.

I don't think 4+ is an HOV requirement anywhere. It is usually 2+ or 3+.

The goal is to encourage carpooling, allowing those with higher car occupants in one of the bus lanes that acts as the passing lane. Since they are spending 400 million might as well change the malls the make it more appeasing, while directing most of the traffic onto Center Main Lanes. I really don't like rush hour Bus Lanes, it really should be 24/7. Instead of two bus lanes one will be HOV 24/7. while the inner one should be 24/7 buses. Under this proposal, parking may be lost but it encourages, HOV carpooling and also improves the buses at the same time. You mention why it's necessary, so limited could pass stopped locals. This way No room will not be a excuse to serious degrade of service to the local. But since parking lanes may not be as big, parking could be relocated next to the mall instead of curbside. The median mall could be smaller, and Left/Right turns could still be allowed with proper signals.

[B35 via Church]

The problem I have with SBS is that it doesn't go far enough in differentiating between BRT and regular Limited Bus Service. This is one of the only one that actually differentiates itself, and the opposition is threatening to turn this into a glorified Limited again. (And therefore more ammunition for those who oppose SBS)

They want the riding public to believe SBS is BRT!

 

  I can't with this   

Taking responsibility for this system has absolutely nothing to do with your ridiculous proposal to move everybody to Easy Pay MetroCards...

Yes, because the myriad of problems our public transportation system is plagued with, is somehow centered around the masses not paying their fares by way of a type of a metrocard....

 

What a lazy ass attempt at a red herring if I ever saw one.... The dude doesn't make any cogent arguments or counter-arguments to anything anyway.... Look at how he always spews a bunch of nonsensical nothingness after someone addresses his posts with sound concerns & retorts.....

 

Buses in general are basically timeshare for a relatively low price. Cars are for those that don't feel like putting up with the bus and that number keeps growing.

That kind of implicates that a public bus in revenue service can take you anywhere a car could.....

 

I'm lucky the owners of this place I work for, didn't choose (what would have been) the worst of the 4 locations for a lot of us - Salem Industrial out in Lebanon.... Now I don't know what buses run out there (if any), but there would have been no way in hell I would have considered to the commute to Penn station, to ride all the way out there, to then have to catch a bus after the fact....

 

If it's not as simple as putting $10 on a MetroCard is now, it's not worthy of consideration.

It's one thing to state that more people should perhaps use the thing, it is quite another to suggest that the MTA move towards somehow making easy pay the norm.... The MTA does enough dictating; last thing we need is yet another avenue for them to wield their iron hand....

 

I don't think 4+ is an HOV requirement anywhere. It is usually 2+ or 3+.

4+ HOV? Never heard of it...