Jump to content

Declining bus ridership in NYC due to improved subway service, MTA official claims


Via Garibaldi 8

Recommended Posts

There's another main reason why bus ridership is declining-or is it really? The amount of farebeating passengers is at an all time high, & there is very little enforcement. The Eagle team mainly concentrates on the Select bus routes,& there aren't enough of them to deter farebeaters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 154
  • Created
  • Last Reply

It's laughable that they're now trying to justify the decreases in ridership on buses to "competition" from the subways. Really? The subways are a mess and the only reason people are cramming onto them is because despite how bad they are, for those that have no other options, they still beat the even slower buses. Those who can get away with taking Uber and other car services are doing just that. My girlfriend uses Uber and yellow taxis just about everywhere she goes, and when she doesn't she usually will just walk. She always complains that the local buses by her are incredibly slow and I'd have to agree with that. It takes 5 minutes to reach her place with a taxi versus a 20+ minute ride on the local bus that should really be more like 10 minutes with the limited stop bus, but the waiting and slow driving and changing drivers makes it unbearable at times. I haven't used the bus by her in quite some time as a result.

But all the MTA and DOT wants to do is make every Manhattan crosstown route SBS. I know SBS isn't the answer to everything and I think it encourages more people to hop on the bus for free. However the focus should be on bus riders in other boroughs besides Manhattan because Manhattan already has in my eyes perfect travel options compared to my borough Queens, which has a bunch of bus routes and a few subway lines. It's funny how the subways are to blame for decreasing ridership when last I heard the subway ridership is also decreasing. I personally think there needs to be a study if they haven't already done one of the causes as to why buses are unreliable. If a route has a huge gap and there are 4 buses bunched together don't run all 4 buses to its terminal. Chances are that the 3 and 4th buses will be empty. Short turn some of those buses and have them run back to close the gap a little bit. If you show people that your service is unreliable people will not be bothered by taking it. There are plenty of other options people like biking, Uber's/taxi's, carpooling, and so on.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But all the MTA and DOT wants to do is make every Manhattan crosstown route SBS. I know SBS isn't the answer to everything and I think it encourages more people to hop on the bus for free. However the focus should be on bus riders in other boroughs besides Manhattan because Manhattan already has in my eyes perfect travel options compared to my borough Queens, which has a bunch of bus routes and a few subway lines. It's funny how the subways are to blame for decreasing ridership when last I heard the subway ridership is also decreasing. I personally think there needs to be a study if they haven't already done one of the causes as to why buses are unreliable. If a route has a huge gap and there are 4 buses bunched together don't run all 4 buses to its terminal. Chances are that the 3 and 4th buses will be empty. Short turn some of those buses and have them run back to close the gap a little bit. If you show people that your service is unreliable people will not be bothered by taking it. There are plenty of other options people like biking, Uber's/taxi's, carpooling, and so on.

Manhattan looks like it has it all but travel is also pretty limited there too.  I understand why they're making the crosstown routes SBS, and the reason is there are no subway options, so the bus is in a way functioning like a subway.  Getting crosstown can be quite a task (believe it or not).  Just going from the Upper West Side to areas near the Upper East Side sometimes takes 45 minutes, because the thing is most people are transferring to the subway or a bus once they get off of the crosstown bus.  If that part of the commute is really slow, it really creates problems.  In short, we have shortages throughout the city in terms of transportation.  Hell anytime I have to commute to most of the Bronx from Riverdale, it's quicker for me to go into Manhattan and transfer that way, and in fact often times Google will recommend the commute that I take.  It's a similar situation commuting to and from parts of Queens as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's another main reason why bus ridership is declining-or is it really? The amount of farebeating passengers is at an all time high, & there is very little enforcement. The Eagle team mainly concentrates on the Select bus routes,& there aren't enough of them to deter farebeaters.

 

And with social media the way it is, I am sure that farebeating on routes like the B44 and B46 are very high. On the rare days, there is Eagle Team enforcement, I bet the word spreads on social media like wildfire to pay your fare that day.

 

But all the MTA and DOT wants to do is make every Manhattan crosstown route SBS. I know SBS isn't the answer to everything and I think it encourages more people to hop on the bus for free. However the focus should be on bus riders in other boroughs besides Manhattan because Manhattan already has in my eyes perfect travel options compared to my borough Queens, which has a bunch of bus routes and a few subway lines. It's funny how the subways are to blame for decreasing ridership when last I heard the subway ridership is also decreasing. I personally think there needs to be a study if they haven't already done one of the causes as to why buses are unreliable. If a route has a huge gap and there are 4 buses bunched together don't run all 4 buses to its terminal. Chances are that the 3 and 4th buses will be empty. Short turn some of those buses and have them run back to close the gap a little bit. If you show people that your service is unreliable people will not be bothered by taking it. There are plenty of other options people like biking, Uber's/taxi's, carpooling, and so on.

 

They used to cut buses short of their terminal years ago when two buses were near the terminal. The driver who was late would instruct the two or three passengers to board the other bus. That worked well. I bet that isn't done any more because of all the bus driver assaults. The MTA, probably with pressure from the unions, probably figure why take the risk that a passenger will give the driver trouble about being forced to get off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's another main reason why bus ridership is declining-or is it really? The amount of farebeating passengers is at an all time high, & there is very little enforcement. The Eagle team mainly concentrates on the Select bus routes,& there aren't enough of them to deter farebeaters.

One of the Eagle teams was actually assaulted a few days ago. We need more NYPD support in that case (although NYPD isn't perfect either, they were actually barred for a time from doing SBS spot checks after an incident with a rider that ACTUALLY HAD paid their fare.)

 

I know SBS is different, but aren't farebeaters supposed to be counted anyway on the local buses?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the Eagle teams was actually assaulted a few days ago. We need more NYPD support in that case (although NYPD isn't perfect either, they were actually barred for a time from doing SBS spot checks after an incident with a rider that ACTUALLY HAD paid their fare.)

 

I know SBS is different, but aren't farebeaters supposed to be counted anyway on the local buses?

Unbelievable.  I want to know what prompted them to take this guy to the floor over a freaking $2.75 fare?  Did he not show the ticket fast enough or what? I clicked on the link but there's no video that actually plays to show what happened.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unbelievable.  I want to know what prompted them to take this guy to the floor over a freaking $2.75 fare?  Did he not show the ticket fast enough or what? I clicked on the link but there's no video that actually plays to show what happened.

Here's some raw video:

 

The (MTA) has since allowed the NYPD to do spot checks a few months later, but the NYPD really scaled back their efforts after this incident.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But all the MTA and DOT wants to do is make every Manhattan crosstown route SBS. I know SBS isn't the answer to everything and I think it encourages more people to hop on the bus for free. However the focus should be on bus riders in other boroughs besides Manhattan because Manhattan already has in my eyes perfect travel options compared to my borough Queens, which has a bunch of bus routes and a few subway lines. It's funny how the subways are to blame for decreasing ridership when last I heard the subway ridership is also decreasing. I personally think there needs to be a study if they haven't already done one of the causes as to why buses are unreliable. If a route has a huge gap and there are 4 buses bunched together don't run all 4 buses to its terminal. Chances are that the 3 and 4th buses will be empty. Short turn some of those buses and have them run back to close the gap a little bit. If you show people that your service is unreliable people will not be bothered by taking it. There are plenty of other options people like biking, Uber's/taxi's, carpooling, and so on.

Remember the proposal a few years ago to make all crosstown buses free because of the high percentage of transfers? Bet that would cost less than making every crosstown route SBS.

Here's some raw video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyccqjJOZ3o

 

The (MTA) has since allowed the NYPD to do spot checks a few months later, but the NYPD really scaled back their efforts after this incident.

I don't understand why they are doing spot checks. Thought they were checking everyone on the bus. Spot checks sounds like profiling by age, race, or gender.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Remember the proposal a few years ago to make all crosstown buses free because of the high percentage of transfers? Bet that would cost less than making every crosstown route SBS.

 

I don't understand why they are doing spot checks. Thought they were checking everyone on the bus. Spot checks sounds like profiling by age, race, or gender.

I have to believe that there has to more to that video that we didn't see because any time that I've been checked, I just show the ticket and I'm on my way. In fact once I had a bunch of Whole Foods bags coming off of the M15 and the guy gave me time to get my ticket out and I was on my way.  What I do see in terms of SBS bus stops is that some folks will wait until the bus comes before they get their ticket.  If it doesn't come and they see a yellow taxi, they'll just take the taxi and keep it moving.  These have been during times when it was extremely cold out, so I don't blame them.  I too have ditched the M86 in some cases, as the waits were ridiculous (this was outside of rush hour too) coming from the Upper West Side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unbelievable. I want to know what prompted them to take this guy to the floor over a freaking $2.75 fare? Did he not show the ticket fast enough or what?

I actually was in a similar incident recently. Was riding the B46 and the eagle man took me off the bus as I didn't get the ticket out fast enough. By the time I got my ticket out, he told me he's still fining me and to appeal it I have to send in my MetroCard or send in the ticket that I have now.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to believe that there has to more to that video that we didn't see because any time that I've been checked, I just show the ticket and I'm on my way. In fact once I had a bunch of Whole Foods bags coming off of the M15 and the guy gave me time to get my ticket out and I was on my way.  What I do see in terms of SBS bus stops is that some folks will wait until the bus comes before they get their ticket.  If it doesn't come and they see a yellow taxi, they'll just take the taxi and keep it moving.  These have been during times when it was extremely cold out, so I don't blame them.  I too have ditched the M86 in some cases, as the waits were ridiculous (this was outside of rush hour too) coming from the Upper West Side.

 

The two times I've seen checks on the Q44 (one at Union Turnpike, the other at Hillside Av), the EagleTeam wasn't that egregious but curt, to say the least...

 

 

I actually was in a similar incident recently. Was riding the B46 and the eagle man took me off the bus as I didn't get the ticket out fast enough. By the time I got my ticket out, he told me he's still fining me and to appeal it I have to send in my MetroCard or send in the ticket that I have now.

 

That doesn't surprise me at all. Some of these Eagle Team guys think they're the sheriff...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually was in a similar incident recently. Was riding the B46 and the eagle man took me off the bus as I didn't get the ticket out fast enough. By the time I got my ticket out, he told me he's still fining me and to appeal it I have to send in my MetroCard or send in the ticket that I have now.

Well I will say that I always keep my ticket in an area where it's easy to retrieve it, so even with my bags, it didn't take me long to get it out.  Usually the drivers will announce when the Eagle Team is getting on and for everyone to have their ticket out and they will repeat it several times for the people who have no clue of their surroundings with their earbuds in their ear <_<.  I see some people sitting there fumbling around looking for that little slip of paper, and I say to myself, why not put it somewhere where it is easy to get it? I saw one lady/man (couldn't tell which) just so spaced out with their wallet looking through all of these papers.  You know you may be checked so don't bury it.  Have also seen women have the damn thing buried in their pocket book.  

 

I understand why he did what he did with you.  He's likely thinking hey, you know you might be checked so why not have the ticket close by?  If it takes too long to get it out, they may think something is up.  

 

With that said, SBS itself may be leading to some people taking other options.  Some people have vigorously fought their tickets and it leaves them with a very sour taste in their mouth.  Some think well if I can take Uber and not put up with such nonsense then why bother with the (MTA)?  I heard of a story where the receipts were printing out incorrect information (obviously due to a computer glitch or error), leading to a bunch of people being held by the Eagle Team.  I usually don't scrutinize my ticket too much, but I sure as hell will now.  

 

 

The two times I've seen checks on the Q44 (one at Union Turnpike, the other at Hillside Av), the EagleTeam wasn't that egregious but curt, to say the least...

 

 

 

That doesn't surprise me at all. Some of these Eagle Team guys think they're the sheriff...

lol... On the M86 when they finished checking by Amsterdam there was a guy in the bus stop trying to pull out who almost hit one of them, and boy did they make a scene, trying to act so tough.  It was cute to see. lol I think it's usually the same guys that work the same lines, because each time I've had the same guys on the M86.  One of them was so dumb that he was about to check me and I wasn't even on the bus nor had I got a ticket yet.  I had just gotten off of one of the Madison Avenue buses and was making my way to the machine to get a ticket.  I looked at him as if to say are you that stupid?  When he realized he immediately backed off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my case I don't mind just sending in the SBS ticket and/or my MetroCard in because I didn't get my ticket out fast enough. But there are these people that think they are the $#!+ and would talk bs to the team like it was pointed out already. I'm more upset at myself for letting me lose the ticket, but for other they would try to fight getting that fine because they paid already but can't get to their ticket.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of the Eagles on the Bx12 have more common sense and they're not nearly as trigger happy to give you the summons.

 

Then again they don't have to try too hard considering the tens of thousands of riders that use the Bx12 per week.

In other words, they have a nice amount of farebeaters to choose from huh...  :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In other words, they have a nice amount of farebeaters to choose from huh...  :lol:

I think it's more of them being overwhelmed by the ridership levels. When you have the amount of sardine cans running around you see on the Bx12 trying to check everyone becomes quite difficult, plus their report data shows the Bx12 has the lowest rate of fare evasion of all SBS routes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's more of them being overwhelmed by the ridership levels. When you have the amount of sardine cans running around you see on the Bx12 trying to check everyone becomes quite difficult, plus their report data shows the Bx12 has the lowest rate of fare evasion of all SBS routes. 

Is that right? I don't know about that. Granted, I've only used the Bx12 a few times and for short distances, but I'm not so sure the levels are oh so low. I recall quite a few people not getting a ticket when I took it. I know the Bx9 (the one time I used it) had people constantly coming in through the back door to avoid paying, so given that the Bx9 links up with the Bx12 I would have to imagine some people taking advantage of it being so crowded and getting a free ride all the way to Inwood. Hell they probably say the same thing about the M86, and you'd be surprised at how many people get on and don't pay. I look at them and say to myself how did that guy just walk on here like that?  It's crazy. Those are the people that need to be busted because they either feel they're too entitled to pay or too important to get a slip. Either way they don't pay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is that right? I don't know about that. Granted, I've only used the Bx12 a few times and for short distances, but I'm not so sure the levels are oh so low. I recall quite a few people not getting a ticket when I took it. I know the Bx9 (the one time I used it) had people constantly coming in through the back door to avoid paying, so given that the Bx9 links up with the Bx12 I would have to imagine some people taking advantage of it being so crowded and getting a free ride all the way to Inwood. Hell they probably say the same thing about the M86, and you'd be surprised at how many people get on and don't pay. I look at them and say to myself how did that guy just walk on here like that?  It's crazy. Those are the people that need to be busted because they either feel they're too entitled to pay or too important to get a slip. Either way they don't pay.

I do happen to believe that word is spread around when the Eagle Team is out and all SBS routes see less evasion with them checking then on a regular basis so the numbers are quite flawed. However, i'm sure the Eagle Team is using their numbers as a basis for how intense they are on various routes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's another main reason why bus ridership is declining-or is it really? The amount of farebeating passengers is at an all time high, & there is very little enforcement. The Eagle team mainly concentrates on the Select bus routes,& there aren't enough of them to deter farebeaters.

The eagle team exists to deter farebeaters from SBS'.... Before SBS, you only had NYPD doing random... very random spot checks...

 

As for the increased farebeating itself (non-SBS routes) these days, I believe it's happening, due to the quality of service (or lack thereof) that we're getting with our buses in general... I brought up a point not too long ago in another thread on here, saying that people are cramming onto the backs of buses more so than ever - not because they don't intend to pay (before the bus' arrival) necessarily, but due to the fact that there's little to no room at the front of the bus.... There's always been a problem with people moving to the back of the bus on a moderately crowded bus, so people are taking matters onto their own hands by boarding the bus through the back..... This to me blatantly states that there's a serious issue with inconsistent service, where people are possibly (I'd say likely) getting flagged by preceding buses....

 

It's an act that reeks of desperation - one that would not be ongoing, have you buy into the MTA's narrative....

Evvveerybody wants the subway & the need for bus travel is slowly going down the wayside....

 

....Except when it comes to SBS of course.

 

They used to cut buses short of their terminal years ago when two buses were near the terminal. The driver who was late would instruct the two or three passengers to board the other bus. That worked well. I bet that isn't done any more because of all the bus driver assaults. The MTA, probably with pressure from the unions, probably figure why take the risk that a passenger will give the driver trouble about being forced to get off.

Funny you mention this.... I've said this (to myself) so many times whenever I'm standing/waiting at the (new) first pickup stop over along  Alabama, or at the 2nd stop along Pacific.... It is my exact solution to fixing just what the hell is going on with the B12 nowadays (well that, and reverting back to the previous turnaround procedure on the Alabama end of the route)..... The (increased amt. of) short turning of WB buses at New York av aint cutting it (as far as crowd control goes)....

 

Be there as it may, IDK why that isn't done anymore, but I happen to agree with you on that.... That would happen to me a lot on the B46 back in the day towards Kings Plaza, and I did not mind it one bit.....

 

I know SBS is different, but aren't farebeaters supposed to be counted anyway on the local buses?

Yes, good ole F5.... Of course, it assumes that the b/o actually sees every farebeater....

 

I don't understand why they are doing spot checks. Thought they were checking everyone on the bus. Spot checks sounds like profiling by age, race, or gender.

NYPD? Nah, all they really do once inside the bus, is congregate amongst themselves & take action, once someone attempts to board the back of the bus.... They don't check anyone once inside the bus (like Eagle Team does, for example)....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

--------------- split post ---------------

 

 

I actually was in a similar incident recently. Was riding the B46 and the eagle man took me off the bus as I didn't get the ticket out fast enough. By the time I got my ticket out, he told me he's still fining me and to appeal it I have to send in my MetroCard or send in the ticket that I have now.

How fast was not fast enough?

 

That doesn't surprise me at all. Some of these Eagle Team guys think they're the sheriff...

Yeah, Eagle Team are a lot like MLB umpires with that false bravado shit... That's a major gripe I have with them....

They enter the bus with a presence that reeks of, *If you aint got that ticket, we goin f*** you up".... That's not what they're there for....

 

Well I will say that I always keep my ticket in an area where it's easy to retrieve it, so even with my bags, it didn't take me long to get it out.  Usually the drivers will announce when the Eagle Team is getting on and for everyone to have their ticket out and they will repeat it several times for the people who have no clue of their surroundings with their earbuds in their ear <_<.  I see some people sitting there fumbling around looking for that little slip of paper, and I say to myself, why not put it somewhere where it is easy to get it? I saw one lady/man (couldn't tell which) just so spaced out with their wallet looking through all of these papers.  You know you may be checked so don't bury it.  Have also seen women have the damn thing buried in their pocket book. 

Nervousness... and it ties right in to the point above.

 

I have a habit of keeping things like that in a shirt or jacket pocket; never in a bag.... I want to avoid situations such as the one that unfortunately happened to Mysterious (2)/ShadeJay..... I get the sense that they want to take you off the bus so they could have a little more freedom to do what they want to do with you..... The exact opposite of RR conductors, in the sense that they expect the riding public to NOT have their tickets....

 

I'll never forget one train ride where these 3 guys were talking amongst one another (regarding SBS).... Within the conversation, one of them had said a lot of those guys either failed the academy or ended up being discharged from the military.... Now if that's actually true or not, I don't have a clue.... It was damn funny when the dude said it though...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To B35:

 

"NYPD? Nah, all they really do once inside the bus, is congregate amongst themselves & take action, once someone attempts to board the back of the bus.... They don't check anyone once inside the bus (like Eagle Team does, for example)...."

 

I think you misunderstood me. My comment was about the Eagle Team, not the NYPD.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To B35:

 

"NYPD? Nah, all they really do once inside the bus, is congregate amongst themselves & take action, once someone attempts to board the back of the bus.... They don't check anyone once inside the bus (like Eagle Team does, for example)...."

 

I think you misunderstood me. My comment was about the Eagle Team, not the NYPD.

Oh.... So I see...

The reply you replied to (paulrivera) was referring to the NYPD doing spot checks - hence the assumption...

 

With that said, well then yes, they (Eagle Team) do check everyone... You'll get anywhere from 2-4 guys checking everyone whilst on the bus.... It used to be 4+ when they were first deployed onto the SBS'..... The only thing random about them is if they appear on *your* bus... Once inside, nothing random (e/g, spot checks) about it.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

--------------- split post ---------------

How fast was not fast enough?

He gave me time to find my ticket, about 2 min. He eventually told me not to worry about it and wrote me a ticket, which shortly after, I found my SBS ticket. In reality, I was not given a fine unfairly because he probably gave me more time to get to my ticket than what most eagles do. So it's understandable why I was fined and he didn't take it back.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.