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Joseph Lee

NYC Subway Update as of 10-2-08

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Paulsboro, New Jersey 08066

 

October 3, 2008(SEPTA)

 

Re: NYC Subway Update - October 1, 2008

 

Hello Everyone: This is my very first post on this site and I hope to keep you updated on future events within this topic.(SEPTA)

 

As the last days of summer pass, times are very busy on the B-Division car equipment front and promise to get even busier and more interesting in the weeks ahead. Perhaps the seminal event this month was delivery of the last 4-car set of R-160A-1’s, which occurred just in time for this report to be compiled, but there were also changes in the fleet compositions at 207/Pitkin and Jamaica which have so far exclusively impacted the A and E lines. There was also an unusual twist to the reefing operation due to a mechanical glitch, but even as current disposition efforts are focusing on removal of the retired Slant R-40s that have accumulated at 207 St, and the remaining 124 cars of this group remain in B service are expected to be retired in the very near future, when delivery of Option I R-160B to Coney Island resumes. So, another month is done, another step is taken and by the time we look again, a pathway into 2009 should be taking shape.

 

After a slight delay due to minor glitches and technical issues, the Option I R-160B deliveries resumed with cars 9043-9067 arriving through September 15, 2008. In the same period, cars 9028-9042 entered passenger service on the N, Q and W. Cars 9003-9012 remain out of sequence as they were reportedly held back for some extensive modification work. There appears to be no particular operational pattern to the use of R-160B’s on their three lines, where they continue to be partnered with both R-68s and R-68As. Of interest however, there was a mixed train of five Alstom R-160Bs (8773-8777) and five R-160A-2’s (8653-8657) on the Q on August 19. By September 15, 2008, deliveries totaled 340 R-160A-1’s, 10 R-160A- 2’s and 340 R-160B’s for a combined quantity of 690. Of these, there were 312 R-160A-1’s in service at East New York (J/Z, L, M), and 10 R-160A-2’s at Coney Island along with 320 R-160B’s.

 

The once mighty 295 fleet of R-32 Phase II’s has dwindled down to only 98 cars still in service at Jamaica as of October 1, 2008 are as follows; 3348/3549, 3372/3, 3386/7, 3392/3, 3408/9, 3420/3645, 3466/7, 3470/3919, 3486/7, 3516/7, 3524/5, 3530/3741, 3534/5, 3544/5, 3546/7, 3558/3421, 3560/1, 3562/3, 3582/3, 3598/9, 3622/3, 3626/7, 3640/1, 3666/7, 3692/3, 3734/5, 3762/3, 3768/9, 3802/3, 3808/9, 3812/3, 3826/7, 3830/3531, 3838/9, 3844/5, 3848/9, 3852/3, 3854/5, 3860/1, 3862/3521, 3866/7, 3902/3, 3908/9, 3910/1, 3916/7, 3918/3601, 3930/1, 3946/7 & 3948/9. It is anticipated that these are to be retired by late November so keep those checklist handy.

 

The following R-32 Phase II’s are mothballed, reefed and retired as of October 1, 2008 are as follows;

3350/1, 3352/3 (currently @ NYC Transit Museum), 3362 thru 3369, 3378/9, 3382/3831, 3390/1, 3398/9, 3402/3, 3418/3863, 3422/3, 3450/1, 3456 thru 3459, 3462/3, 3474/5, 3478 thru 3483, 3490/1, 3498/9, 3502/3905, 3506 thru 3509, 3526 thru 3529, 3532/3, 3536/7, 3540 thru 3543, 3554 thru 3557, 3564 thru 3573, 3576/7, 3580/1, 3584/5, 3588/9, 3596/7, 3600/3503, 3602 thru 3605, 3608/9, 3612/3, 3620 (this car was out of service since 1992 due to bent carbody and frames), 3632/3, 3636 thru 3639, 3648/9, 3652/3, 3656/7, 3674/5, 3678 thru 3681, 3684 thru 3687, 3696/7, 3700 thru 3703, 3710 thru 3713, 3722 thru 3725, 3744/5, 3748/9, 3752 thru 3755, 3758 thru 3761, 3764/5, 3776/3617, 3788 thru 3791, 3800/1, 3814 thru 3817, 3824/5, 3832/3, 3842/3, 3846/7, 3850/1, 3858/9, 3874/5, 3882 thru 3885, 3898/9, 3904/3559, 3906/7, 3914/5, 3920/1, 3926/7 & 3940 thru 3945.

 

The following R-32 Phase I cars have been reassigned from 207/Pitkin to Jamaica as of September 24, 2008; 3890/3383, 3894 thru 3897, 3912/3, 3928/9 & 3932/3. This completes the final transfer of R-32 Phase I cars from 207/Pitkin to Jamaica to join the remaining 278 R-32 Phase I’s sisters at Jamaica as follows; 3354 thru 3361, 3370/1, 3374 thru 3377, 3380/1, 3384/5, 3388/9, 3394 thru 3397, 3400/1, 3404 thru 3407, 3410 thru 3417, 3424 thru 3443, 3444/3777, 3446 thru 3449, 3452 thru 3455, 3460/1, 3464/5, 3468/3445, 3472/3, 3476/7, 3484/5, 3488/9, 3492 thru 3497, 3500/1, 3504/5, 3510 thru 3515, 3518/9, 3520/3891, 3522/3, 3538/9, 3548/3593, 3550 thru 3553, 3574/5, 3578/9, 3586/7, 3590/1, 3592/3469, 3606/7, 3610/1, 3614/5, 3618/9, 3624/5, 3628/3669, 3630/1, 3634/5, 3642/3, 3644/3621, 3646/7, 3650/3767, 3654/5, 3658/3471, 3660 thru 3665, 3670 thru 3673, 3676/7, 3682/3, 3688 thru 3691, 3694/5, 3698/9, 3704 thru 3709, 3714 thru 3721, 3726 thru 3733, 3736 thru 3739, 3740/3419, 3742/3, 3746/7, 3750/1, 3756/7, 3770 thru 3775, 3778 thru 3787, 3792 thru 3799, 3804 thru 3807, 3810/1, 3818 thru 3823, 3828/9, 3834 thru 3837, 3840/1, 3856/7, 3864/5, 3868 thru 3873, 3876 thru 3879, 3886 thru 3889, 3900/1, 3922 thru 3925 & 3938/9. Retirement will commence by late November or early December.

 

The following R-40M’s have been reassigned from Coney Island to 207/Pitkin as follows; 4472 thru 4501 joining its sisters 4460/4665 & 4502 thru 4549 previously transferred to same.

 

The following MK R-42’s are assigned to 207/Pitkin; 4550 thru 4593.

 

The following MK R-42’s are assigned to Jamaica are as follows; 4594 thru 4623, 4626 thru 4663, 4666 thru 4679, 4682/3, 4684/4727, 4686 thru 4713, 4716 thru 4725, 4728/9, 4732 thru 4755.

 

As autumn beckons, it looks like completion of the base R-160 contract awarded back in 2003 is finally at hand, along with retirement of about half each of the R-32’s (GE’s and Phase II’s), all Slant R-40’s and 110 CI R-42’s (4840 thru 4949). While it seems a safe bet that the rest of the Phase II R-32’s will be replaced by more MK R-42’s being transferred to Jamaica, at present fleet levels, and the eminent retirement of the Phase I R-32’s will commence beginning around Thanksgiving, when 360 new R-160A-2 Option I car will start to be delivered, accepted and placed in service at Jamaica. These and many other facets of this ongoing saga will continue to unfold in the (colder) months ahead, and we’ll hopefully continue to log all the changing colors for your reading pleasure.

 

It is also anticipated that the final Option II order for 584 (64 4 car sets & 520 5 car sets), the remainder of the R-160A&B’s option contract will be awarded in 2010, to be delivered, accepted and placed in service by 2012, which will result in the retirement of all R-40M’s and remaining MK R42’s presently still in revenue service.

 

I hope this helps, so Mr. Kris Datta can update his Subway Car Data Sheet accordingly.

 

See Ya Next Time!

 

Regards,

 

Joseph Lee

Edited by Joseph Lee

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Thanks for the info.

 

Head over to the new member introduction forum and introduce yourself!

 

- A

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I seen that mixed R160A/B set back in august on the (Q).

 

I heard pikin's 42 were being sent to jamaica to replace the P II 32's while the (A) will all of the R40M.

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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320))

 

I just passed by CIYD on the (F), and saw 8660's on the ramp (waiting for us to pass) with the papers in the windows; to start testing, or whatever.

 

I figured there had been a holdup on the 160B's. Not seeing much of anything new recently.

I had been asking about this, but no one even seemed to notice.

 

So all the 32's Re gone from the (A)(C)? I was wondering; though all of the 38 consists I have been seeing have been solid.

 

And they want to get rid of all the 32's, and leave 40M/42's? Again, the 32's bodies are in better condition. Some of the 42's have serious rust at the roofline.

 

And it's good that they are going with the second option. But I wonder why so long from now. You'd think it would be ordered now and arrive in 2010. 2012; you'd think would be when they start on 179's.

Is this because of the financial problems?

Edited by Eric B

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This is some great, detailed information.

I'll keep my personal opinion out of my response though...don't want to start a subway car war. =]

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I seen a R160A 5 Car Connected to a R160B last 5 cars on the (N) line Like a month ago in working service. The only thing is the Door sounds is different

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That 8653-8657 set has been on the (N) the last few weeks actually(been on 8655 a bunch of times), not sure what the last 5 cars are they are attached to though

Its 8653-8662 that runs on the (N) and (Q), and at times gets mixed with R160Bs.

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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320))

 

So it seems; rounding it all off, there are about 1100 old 60ft cars left (of the initial 1600) to go: (again; rounded off) 300 Phase 1 32's; 100 Phase II; 200 38's; 100+ slants; 100 modifieds; 300 MK 42's.

690 new cars are in service. Total Option 1: 340 (A1), 260 (B-I); 10 (A2), leaving 80 B-II. The full order will be 920. (340+260+60+260).

 

So now; another option of 584 B's would bring the total to 1504, ending in car #9817 and leave nearly 100 old cars. I imagine these will be the modified; which seem to be in the best condition over the 42's. Wonder what line will be left with them. Probably the (C); but then I wonder what the rest of it's fleet will be. 75 footers pushed over from other lines, or perhaps its own 160's, with the consists finally increased to 10 cars?

 

I also imagine that since the 64 cars for the East are grouped in with the B's, and not A1; then these will be for the (L) so perhaps they will be compatible with the Kawasaki made 143's; replacing the 160's borrowed by that line.

 

Now; I missed it at first, but it says 320 cars for an A2 option. And these would be for Jamaica! I imagine CI cars being borrowed by the F would cease; or maybe not even begin, since that was said to be this winter, and now this option is supposed to begin arriving around the same time. The 60 A2 cars will then probably be sent over to join the option order for a total of 380, neatly replacing all of the 32's now there. It would not matter if the (G) were transferred to CI or not; as it could now use 160's from either end; and they might as well keept it at Jamaica.

 

This would push the total to 1824, with a fleet expansion of over 200. (unless they deside to start on the worst of the 44's then). The numbers would now go past 9999 (to 10137); so I imagine the 320 would start elsewhere. 3000-3320 would be open (I imagine the 110B's are off the roster; but if not; it would only push the last number up to 3330).

 

That would close out the replacement of the old 60 foot cars from the 60's, and the fleet would consist entirely of 44's, 46's, 68's, 143's, and 160's. If the 44's, 46's and 68's stay where they are, (except for moving off of the (G) which would fill in the other Queens lines), you would have the entire BMT East, plus the (N)(Q)(W)(C)(H)(E)(G) with a nearly identical fleet, along with parts of the (A), unless the 44's are moved to the (C))and whatever else may be needed on the (F) and (R); while only the (:)(D)(F)(V)(R)(S) would retain their current familiar "character", fleetwise with the 75 foot cars.

 

Then, will begin the 75 foot car replacement, with the 179's.

Edited by Eric B

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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320))

 

So it seems; rounding it all off, there are about 1100 old 60ft cars left (of the initial 1600) to go: (again; rounded off) 300 Phase 1 32's; 100 Phase II; 200 38's; 100+ slants; 100 modifieds; 300 MK 42's.

690 new cars are in service. Total Option 1: 340 (A1), 260 (B-I); 10 (A2), leaving 80 B-II. The full order will be 920. (340+260+60+260).

 

So now; another option of 584 B's would bring the total to 1504, ending in car #9817 and leave nearly 100 old cars. I imagine these will be the modified; which seem to be in the best condition over the 42's. Wonder what line will be left with them. Probably the (C); but then I wonder what the rest of it's fleet will be. 75 footers pushed over from other lines, or perhaps its own 160's, with the consists finally increased to 10 cars?

 

I also imagine that since the 64 cars for the East are grouped in with the B's, and not A1; then these will be for the (L) so perhaps they will be compatible with the Kawasaki made 143's; replacing the 160's borrowed by that line.

 

Now; I missed it at first, but it says 320 cars for an A2 option. And these would be for Jamaica! I imagine CI cars being borrowed by the F would cease; or maybe not even begin, since that was said to be this winter, and now this option is supposed to begin arriving around the same time. The 60 A2 cars will then probably be sent over to join the option order for a total of 380, neatly replacing all of the 32's now there. It would not matter if the (G) were transferred to CI or not; as it could now use 160's from either end; and they might as well keept it at Jamaica.

 

This would push the total to 1824, with a fleet expansion of over 200. (unless they deside to start on the worst of the 44's then). The numbers would now go past 9999 (to 10137); so I imagine the 320 would start elsewhere. 3000-3320 would be open (I imagine the 110B's are off the roster; but if not; it would only push the last number up to 3330).

 

That would close out the replacement of the old 60 foot cars from the 60's, and the fleet would consist entirely of 44's, 46's, 68's, 143's, and 160's. If the 44's, 46's and 68's stay where they are, (except for moving off of the (G) which would fill in the other Queens lines), you would have the entire BMT East, plus the (N)(Q)(W)(C)(H)(E)(G) with a nearly identical fleet, along with parts of the (A), unless the 44's are moved to the (C))and whatever else may be needed on the (F) and (R); while only the (:D(D)(F)(V)(R)(S) would retain their current familiar "character", fleetwise with the 75 foot cars.

 

Then, will begin the 75 foot car replacement, with the 179's.

 

danggggggggggggggggggggg...

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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320))

 

So it seems; rounding it all off, there are about 1100 old 60ft cars left (of the initial 1600) to go: (again; rounded off) 300 Phase 1 32's; 100 Phase II; 200 38's; 100+ slants; 100 modifieds; 300 MK 42's.

690 new cars are in service. Total Option 1: 340 (A1), 260 (B-I); 10 (A2), leaving 80 B-II. The full order will be 920. (340+260+60+260).

 

So now; another option of 584 B's would bring the total to 1504, ending in car #9817 and leave nearly 100 old cars. I imagine these will be the modified; which seem to be in the best condition over the 42's. Wonder what line will be left with them. Probably the (C); but then I wonder what the rest of it's fleet will be. 75 footers pushed over from other lines, or perhaps its own 160's, with the consists finally increased to 10 cars?

 

I also imagine that since the 64 cars for the East are grouped in with the B's, and not A1; then these will be for the (L) so perhaps they will be compatible with the Kawasaki made 143's; replacing the 160's borrowed by that line.

 

Now; I missed it at first, but it says 320 cars for an A2 option. And these would be for Jamaica! I imagine CI cars being borrowed by the F would cease; or maybe not even begin, since that was said to be this winter, and now this option is supposed to begin arriving around the same time. The 60 A2 cars will then probably be sent over to join the option order for a total of 380, neatly replacing all of the 32's now there. It would not matter if the (G) were transferred to CI or not; as it could now use 160's from either end; and they might as well keept it at Jamaica.

 

This would push the total to 1824, with a fleet expansion of over 200. (unless they deside to start on the worst of the 44's then). The numbers would now go past 9999 (to 10137); so I imagine the 320 would start elsewhere. 3000-3320 would be open (I imagine the 110B's are off the roster; but if not; it would only push the last number up to 3330).

 

That would close out the replacement of the old 60 foot cars from the 60's, and the fleet would consist entirely of 44's, 46's, 68's, 143's, and 160's. If the 44's, 46's and 68's stay where they are, (except for moving off of the (G) which would fill in the other Queens lines), you would have the entire BMT East, plus the (N)(Q)(W)(C)(H)(E)(G) with a nearly identical fleet, along with parts of the (A), unless the 44's are moved to the (C))and whatever else may be needed on the (F) and (R); while only the (:D(D)(F)(V)(R)(S) would retain their current familiar "character", fleetwise with the 75 foot cars.

 

Then, will begin the 75 foot car replacement, with the 179's.

 

Is this all speculation? Because it seems like a pretty good plan.

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Sounds like the (A)(C) will strictly be R40M/R42s. When the R44 go into their 2nd overhaul maybe a few R68s can head over there.

 

When is the R44 supposed to get their 2nd overhaul? I thought they were being replaced by the R179

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When is the R44 supposed to get their 2nd overhaul? I thought they were being replaced by the R179

 

They are going to be supposed to be replaced by the R-179 but not anytime soon. Hopefully around 2012-2015

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