Enhanced Station Initiative

[Union Tpke]

The timeline has already been delayed! It is now scheduled to be completed in May. The local city council members are furious!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

The timeline has already been delayed! It is now scheduled to be completed in May. The local city council members are furious!

The timeline for what??

[Lance]

I presume the rehab timeline for 30 Avenue and 36 Avenue. It's supposed to be roughly six months per the ESI guidelines, in this case late Oct. - late April.

[Union Tpke]

6 minutes ago, Lance said:

I presume the rehab timeline for 30 Avenue and 36 Avenue. It's supposed to be roughly six months per the ESI guidelines, in this case late Oct. - late April.

Yup. The community is really annoyed that they aren't installing elevators at 30th.

[Lance]

I saw that. That's got me wondering how long it would take to install an elevator (or three given the station layout) here. Not on MTA times because they'd give a three year timeframe and a ridiculously overpriced budget, but by normal design standards.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

52 minutes ago, Lance said:

I presume the rehab timeline for 30 Avenue and 36 Avenue. It's supposed to be roughly six months per the ESI guidelines, in this case late Oct. - late April.

I don't know... Granted I worked in construction for a few years before moving to another managerial position, and I understand that the timelines they give are estimates, but Jesus Christ, it seems like they don't give much thought to what they put out sometimes.  That's a huge difference in completion time.  It feels like one of those shows where a couple goes in and buys a real fixer upper and then they go and open up the walls and find all sorts of structural issues or things like lead or some nonsense that really pushes back the completion date and ups the original budget. They must've found something somewhere, but I can't for the life of me understand why they wouldn't take that into consideration for these projects. It's pretty obvious that they're doing more work on these above ground stations.

45 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

Yup. The community is really annoyed that they aren't installing elevators at 30th.

 

1 minute ago, Lance said:

I saw that. That's got me wondering how long it would take to install an elevator (or three given the station layout) here. Not on MTA times because they'd give a three year timeframe and a ridiculously overpriced budget, but by normal design standards.

I think it's a combination of the timeline and more importantly the budget. The community should really make a stink about this. They would love to slide on in and complete the project with no elevators added. Disgusting.

[Around the Horn]

4 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

The timeline has already been delayed! It is now scheduled to be completed in May. The local city council members are furious!

No, that was always the timeline... The Astoria stations are 7-8 months rather than the 6 months for the others.

[Lance]

So apparently Prospect Av reopened yesterday. And yet we're still waiting for half of the stations at 104 Street and 121 Street on the Jamaica line.

[LGA Link N Train]

On 11/3/2017 at 10:12 AM, Lance said:

So apparently Prospect Av reopened yesterday. And yet we're still waiting for half of the stations at 104 Street and 121 Street on the Jamaica line.

121st Street is almost complete 

10th Street. ...... ehhh It's about halfway or so

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

On 11/2/2017 at 3:41 PM, Lance said:

I saw that. That's got me wondering how long it would take to install an elevator (or three given the station layout) here. Not on MTA times because they'd give a three year timeframe and a ridiculously overpriced budget, but by normal design standards.

what standards? 🤔

Hopefully the will use this time to evaluate more than just Bombardier in terms if unfitness for NYC investment.

I'm positive several more prime contractors can be booted proper. Also, a Carfax-like history to see how many other agencies they've failed, e.g. NYCHA, CTA, etc, so we don't set taxpayer dollars for failures in engineering. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by MassTransitHonchkrow
Autocorrect improperly suggested 'his' and not 'how', placing subsequent adverbs out of context.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

The 62nd Street - New Utrecht Av station's connecting foyer will be shut down as elevator construction is slated to begin.

While it should be viewed as good news, it was planned in the last capital budget, and as such, is better late than never.

[Lance]

MTA Shelves Plan to Modernize Subway Stations Amid Criticism

The MTA has postponed a plan to modernize subway stations, two transit sources told NBC 4 New York on Wednesday.

The transit agency had planned to modernize eight subway stations in the Bronx and Manhattan as part of Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s “Enhanced Subway Initiative” aiming to improve the condition of the city’s 472 stations.

The transit sources told News 4 that the plan to modernize the six Manhattan and two Bronx subway stations has been shelved until at least February. The Manhattan stations include: the 23rd Street F/M; the 28th Street 6; the 57th Street F; the 145th Street 3; and the 34th Street stations at Penn Station and Herald Square. The Bronx stations include the 167th Street B/D and the 174th Street B/D.

The decision to halt the renovations comes two days after city-appointed MTA board members, including DOT Commissioner Polly Trottenberg, questioned how the MTA could justify its $124 million price tag on a largely cosmetic project at a time when day-to-day service needs more urgent attention.

Some observers will score the move as a win for de Blasio in his newly intensified battle with Cuomo over MTA issues. The two leaders have been in a months-long dispute over who should pay the $800 million in transit funding needed to address major issues facing the aging system, like widespread delays. The mayor has argued that the MTA, a state-run agency, hasn’t been spending money wisely.

MTA Chairman Joe Lhota, a Cuomo appointee, blasted de Blasio on Tuesday for not funding the MTA. City Hall hadn’t commented as of Wednesday morning.

In other MTA news, the agency is set to release its new plan to help disabled riders after months of impassioned lobbying by seniors, according to transit sources.

Source: WNBC

[Lance]

I'm kind of torn on this one. On the one hand, I can understand the outrage over the high costs for mostly cosmetic work and unnecessary gadgets. On the other hand however, some of these stations really do need a refresh and not just on the surface level. Look at the how the 4th Avenue stations look now. Ignoring the add-ons like the USB ports and the excessive displays, the station is much brighter and cleaner than it was previously. Also, it looks like the various leaks on the platforms were repaired as well during those closures last year. I'd say remove the spinning wheels and execute an ESI-lite approach to these station rehabs. Also, they should not abandon the design-build approach given that it was one of the few times a station rehab actually completed on something resembling the original schedule.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, Lance said:

MTA Shelves Plan to Modernize Subway Stations Amid Criticism

The MTA has postponed a plan to modernize subway stations, two transit sources told NBC 4 New York on Wednesday.

The transit agency had planned to modernize eight subway stations in the Bronx and Manhattan as part of Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s “Enhanced Subway Initiative” aiming to improve the condition of the city’s 472 stations.

The transit sources told News 4 that the plan to modernize the six Manhattan and two Bronx subway stations has been shelved until at least February. The Manhattan stations include: the 23rd Street F/M; the 28th Street 6; the 57th Street F; the 145th Street 3; and the 34th Street stations at Penn Station and Herald Square. The Bronx stations include the 167th Street B/D and the 174th Street B/D.

The decision to halt the renovations comes two days after city-appointed MTA board members, including DOT Commissioner Polly Trottenberg, questioned how the MTA could justify its $124 million price tag on a largely cosmetic project at a time when day-to-day service needs more urgent attention.

Some observers will score the move as a win for de Blasio in his newly intensified battle with Cuomo over MTA issues. The two leaders have been in a months-long dispute over who should pay the $800 million in transit funding needed to address major issues facing the aging system, like widespread delays. The mayor has argued that the MTA, a state-run agency, hasn’t been spending money wisely.

MTA Chairman Joe Lhota, a Cuomo appointee, blasted de Blasio on Tuesday for not funding the MTA. City Hall hadn’t commented as of Wednesday morning.

In other MTA news, the agency is set to release its new plan to help disabled riders after months of impassioned lobbying by seniors, according to transit sources.

Source: WNBC

It amazes me that de Blasio keeps regurgitating the same crap over and over again.  He was on Good Day New York this morning, still yelling about how we need a millionaire's tax rather than congestion pricing to fund the  and how the State needs to give back millions that it took before daring to ask the city to contribute its fair share, but yet at the same time, he keeps talking about how urgent the need is to fix our crumbling subways.  In other words, he continues to pass the buck onto Cuomo and lay blame fully on the State, as if the city bares no responsibility in contributing financially to the  aside from the monies it gave two or so years ago.    

Even liberal newspapers like the NY Times have argued that his inability to put his personal vendettas aside with Cuomo are hurting this city. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 minutes ago, Lance said:

I'm kind of torn on this one. On the one hand, I can understand the outrage over the high costs for mostly cosmetic work and unnecessary gadgets. On the other hand however, some of these stations really do need a refresh and not just on the surface level. Look at the how the 4th Avenue stations look now. Ignoring the add-ons like the USB ports and the excessive displays, the station is much brighter and cleaner than it was previously. Also, it looks like the various leaks on the platforms were repaired as well during those closures last year. I'd say remove the spinning wheels and execute an ESI-lite approach to these station rehabs. Also, they should not abandon the design-build approach given that it was one of the few times a station rehab actually completed on something resembling the original schedule.

If they're going to do these cosmetic upgrades, they need to really focus on infrastructure and upkeep.  I am rather tired of seeing so called "new stations" that come back online and still look absolutely filthy and run down from a lack of upkeep.  In that way I agree that it's throwing good money after bad.  I don't know how many people have seen the stations at 168th and 181st on the  line, but they're an embarrassment.  They were under rehab for so long that by the time they came back online, it was hard to tell if they even been redone.  The only difference really was that they were brighter, which served mainly to highlight just how dirty the stations were in the first place.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[RailRunRob]

8 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I don't know how many people have seen the stations at 168th and 181st on the  line, but they're an embarrassment.

High vaulted ceilings, intricate tile work. Hey, do you how did they get  Materials down there? Quite a few stories down. 🤔

Edited January 24, 2018 by RailRunRob

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, RailRunRob said:

High vaulted ceilings, intricate tile work. Hey, do you how they got Materials down there? Quite a few stories down. 🤔

No one is looking at the high vaulted ceilings when they are standing on those filthy platforms at both stations with rats running around, I can assure you of that.

[bobtehpanda]

14 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It amazes me that de Blasio keeps regurgitating the same crap over and over again.  He was on Good Day New York this morning, still yelling about how we need a millionaire's tax rather than congestion pricing to fund the  and how the State needs to give back millions that it took before daring to ask the city to contribute its fair share, but yet at the same time, he keeps talking about how urgent the need is to fix our crumbling subways.  In other words, he continues to pass the buck onto Cuomo and lay blame fully on the State, as if the city bares no responsibility in contributing financially to the  aside from the monies it gave two or so years ago.    

Even liberal newspapers like the NY Times have argued that his inability to put his personal vendettas aside with Cuomo are hurting this city. 

This is not a one-sided vendetta.

Quote

Dague was referring to the MTA’s New York City Transit Authority, which operates its subways and buses. Cuomo's budget plan calls for the city of New York "to provide in full all funding required to meet the capital needs of the New York City Transit authority" in its five-year capital plans.

We don't ask Nassau and Suffolk counties to fund East Side Access by themselves, why is this even a provision being considered?

[RailRunRob]

10 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

No one is looking at the high vaulted ceilings when they are standing on those filthy platforms at both stations with rats running around, I can assure you of that.

Well the high vaulted ceiling are a part of the package.. Man the IRT was ahead of there time.. Didn't the ceiling collapse? Reconstructing that piece would take some time, wouldn't it?  But anyway yeah the stations. Maybe after the last  train storms through  at 1:30 am they could really conduct a thorough cleaning.  Point taken.

Edited January 24, 2018 by RailRunRob

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

This is not a one-sided vendetta.

We don't ask Nassau and Suffolk counties to fund East Side Access by themselves, why is this even a provision being considered?

Of course it isn't, but if de Blasio would shut up about the monies allocated two years ago and contribute to the problem, I don't think it would've reached this point.  If he really believes that the subway issue is as horrible as he claims it is, he would fork over money.  If the State put back the monies that he keeps yelling about tomorrow, what $ figure does he have in mind for the City to give towards the ? That's my question. It's one thing to say what the State should do, but what is the City prepared to do NOW, not two years ago? 

Edited January 24, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[LGA Link N Train]

Well, why shelve the plan

These stations (if not NEARLY EVERY STATION) needs to be modernized and maintained

With the exception of those that are already modernized 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

14 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

This is not a one-sided vendetta.

We don't ask Nassau and Suffolk counties to fund East Side Access by themselves, why is this even a provision being considered?

I think it should be considered to force de Blasio to either piss or get off of the pot. Let him pony up some money towards the problem instead of talking about how it's a crisis that apparently the State is completely responsible for.

[Union Tpke]

Yes! End this bloated waste and invest in the signals system!

[RR503]

You know, I'm all for station renovation, but spending so much on the stations they chose (except for the Penn pair) seems like a waste. They're mostly medium/low ridership local stops, with little larger systemic relevance. If the MTA is gonna invest in stations, they should work on deknotting major complexes like Union Square, 14th/6th/7th, 3rd Ave-149th, Atlantic Barclays, Herald Square, and Lex-59 (I would include GC ofc, but that's already being done). 

Aesthetics aside, those stations' designs have significant effects on train peformance, so spending a cool billion on these facelifts for minor players seems really misguided in this era. They should be working on increasing stair capacity/changing placement, adding mezzanie space (if at all possible), and widening platforms (again, if at all possible). Imagine what a billion dollars tied to design-build contracts could do for those stations -- and for the system as a whole... 

Edited January 25, 2018 by RR503

[Around the Horn]

10 minutes ago, RR503 said:

You know, I'm all for station renovation, but spending so much on the stations they chose (except for the Penn pair) seems like a waste. They're mostly medium/low ridership local stops, with little larger systemic relevance.

Thats the whole point... The ESI was meant to test the idea of modernization and design build before moving to the larger and more high impact stations.