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General SBS Discussion

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There have been numerous updates to the timelines for the implementation of SBS routes.

M79 SBS

First of all, the M79 SBS will begin operation on May 21, 2017, a month later than anticipated.

https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20170425/upper-east-side/mta-select-bus-service-m79-start-may-21

Download the presentation (pdf)

 

Bx6 SBS

Second of all, more details are out about the Bx6 SBS. It will begin operation in the summer.

Download the presentation (pdf)

Download the Spring 2017 Newsletter (pdf)

 

Q52/Q53 SBS

It is set to begin in fall 2017.

B82 SBS

B82 SBS will go into operation in 2018

SBS service will terminate at Cropsey Avenue and Bay 37th Street with the local continuing to Coney Island.

SBS service will be rerouted via Avenue K between Flatlands Avenue and Kings Highway with an additional stop, instead of going via Flatbush Avenue.

It would go via Glenwood Road to get rid of a complicated routing that slows speeds.

Along the route, several crosswalks would be installed. Curb bus lanes would also be installed.

Download the presentation (pdf)

 

SBS for LIC?

At a mayoral town hall in Sunnyside, Mayor de Blasio announced that a SBS route is being looked into the area.

http://www.qchron.com/editions/hoping-to-stay-in-their-homes-stores/article_f834601c-2c37-11e7-a588-83ffc3ab4c13.html

Where do you think this route might go?

Any updates for Q25 and Q113 SBS?

I haven't seen anything on the DOT website.

Edited by East New York
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I'm confused about the Bx6. Is there going to be a local AND a SBS branch, or just an SBS branch?

Local and SBS route. Unless you mean there are separate branches for the sbs and local versions, for which, idk.

 

 

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Local and SBS route. Unless you mean there are separate branches for the sbs and local versions, for which, idk.

 

 

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Stupid. They should make the route SBS and call it a day. That bus is so slow that I've outwalked it from the Grand Concourse to the 3rd Avenue area. The main reason people pile on is because of the hills and their laziness. They can walk a little bit. They could eliminate at least two or three stops between River Avenue and 3rd Avenue. From River Avenue, get rid of the stop by the Courthouses and have one stop at Morris Avenue. From there no stops until the transfer point to the Bx41 and then eliminate that stop by Boricua College/Police precinct. 

 

Also isn't clear if they're using artics are not, but they need bigger buses. Those 40 footers are just too little for the crowds. 

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Stupid. They should make the route SBS and call it a day. That bus is so slow that I've outwalked it from the Grand Concourse to the 3rd Avenue area. The main reason people pile on is because of the hills and their laziness. They can walk a little bit. They could eliminate at least two or three stops between River Avenue and 3rd Avenue. From River Avenue, get rid of the stop by the Courthouses and have one stop at Morris Avenue. From there no stops until the transfer point to the Bx41 and then eliminate that stop by Boricua College/Police precinct. 

 

Also isn't clear if they're using artics are not, but they need bigger buses. Those 40 footers are just too little for the crowds. 

XN60s are coming to West Farms and Jackie Gleason in the fall

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XN60s are coming to West Farms and Jackie Gleason in the fall

And? are they using some for the Bx6? There's been nothing noting what buses will be used for the Bx6 SBS service, so even if WF receives artics doesn't mean they'll use them for the Bx6.

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What does the MTA plan to do to Woodhaven's buses? Put the remaining XD40s of MTA bus on the Q52/53? Seems like bs to start it without even finalizing the artic order for MTA.

Edited by ShadeJay
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I honestly doubt the MTA will implement a SBS route right from the get-go. Like they gotta study ridership levels before taking such a risk.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

They practically did that with the M34/M34A. 34th Street corridor was pushed way ahead of schedule.

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As someone who frequents the B82 as an alternative to the B103 or B6 for commuting, how will the westbound Glenwood Rd reroute work given that its one-way until East 103rd St?

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I want to see how these frequencies are going to be split between the Bx6 local and Select. Also will the short turns in Hunts Point stay or will all SBS runs go the full distance?

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As someone who frequents the B82 as an alternative to the B103 or B6 for commuting, how will the westbound Glenwood Rd reroute work given that its one-way until East 103rd St?

I got a feeling they're trying to turn that section of Glenwood back into a two way street just to allow better access for the B6 and b82 to enter Rockaway station faster. The PDf mention something about streamlining the B6 and b82 but wasn't clear as to how they were going to do so given the current travel path in the area. Also I glad they are concerning making changes to Flatlands/Ralph Junction a location notorious for crashes.

Edited by B102 LTD

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The Bx6 SBS is unusual. First, the route doesn't have an existing limited route to convert to SBS, unlike the Bx12, M15, B44, or B46. Second, the local route will stay, unlike the M86 or M23.

 

IMO the B82 SBS should continue on Kings Highway past Flatbush unlike the current B82, which turns right. Then the B82 SBS should turn right on Glenwood and continue the whole way until Pennsylvania Av. This should be done for both directions of B82 SBS, and anyway, even if the B82 retained the same route, would be much faster for SBS riders since Glenwood has fewer routes and bus frequency than Flatlands.


If a LIC route is being converted to SBS, how about the Q69? The only thing is that in the north, it parallels the M60. Looks like the most logical choice though; the Q102 is right under the Astoria line, and the Q103 and Q104 basically hug the shore, serving a smaller area.

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IMO the B82 SBS should continue on Kings Highway past Flatbush unlike the current B82, which turns right. Then the B82 SBS should turn right on Glenwood and continue the whole way until Pennsylvania Av. This should be done for both directions of B82 SBS, and anyway, even if the B82 retained the same route, would be much faster for SBS riders since Glenwood has fewer routes and bus frequency than Flatlands.

I haven't gotten a chance to read the full PDF file for the B82SBS as of yet. However, there are some good tweaks that are good with the new routing. When i can fully read this PDF on the B82 than I can comment and be very elaborate to what I'm going to say. This will affect the Canarsie portion of the route.

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I haven't gotten a chance to read the full PDF file for the B82SBS as of yet. However, there are some good tweaks that are good with the new routing. When i can fully read this PDF on the B82 than I can comment and be very elaborate to what I'm going to say. This will affect the Canarsie portion of the route.

I'll just point out a few key points that stood out to me:

 

The B82 is set to end around Ulmer Park and not go to Coney Island when unlike the B46, there is no El or narrow streets that the B82 operates under/on to qualify a cut.

 

A few reroutes in the Flatlands and Canarsie, one which looks good and another that feels like it might hurt more than benefit. The reroute on Av K is also something I think the local should do.

 

The stops are the following:

Seaview Av (Spring Creek)

Schroeders Av

Vandalia Av

E. 105 St

Rockaway Parkway (L)

Remsen Av

E. 80/82 St

Ralph Av

Utica Av

Av K (on Kings Highway)

Flatbush Av

Nostrand Av

Ocean Av

E. 15/16 St (B)(Q)

Coney Island Av

McDonald Av (F)

W 7 St (N)

78 st

86 St (D)

Bath Av

Bay 37 St (Ulmer Park)

 

I think it can be possible to run the SBS between Gateway mall and Coney Island. The mall is more fan service, but as I said before, there is nothing that is stopping the B82 from continuing to Coney Island.

 

 

Damn, Brooklyn must love overhauling SBS routes......

Edited by ShadeJay

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bloody hell on them implementing sbs on the q52/q53 what don't they get when people say NO it's NO!

There won't be that crappy BRT smack dab in the middle of the boulevard. That helps a bit.

 

And? are they using some for the Bx6? There's been nothing noting what buses will be used for the Bx6 SBS service, so even if WF receives artics doesn't mean they'll use them for the Bx6.

Prior updates from Dante (ENY) and Trevor (I think he mentioned that too), among others, state artics will be on the Bx6 SBS. I agree with you on that whole Bx6 Local elimination - get it overwith, especially when the presentation states "Frequencies will be split between the SBS and the Local".

 

As someone who frequents the B82 as an alternative to the B103 or B6 for commuting, how will the westbound Glenwood Rd reroute work given that its one-way until East 103rd St?

I got a feeling they're trying to turn that section of Glenwood back into a two way street just to allow better access for the B6 and b82 to enter Rockaway station faster. The PDf mention something about streamlining the B6 and b82 but wasn't clear as to how they were going to do so given the current travel path in the area. Also I glad they are concerning making changes to Flatlands/Ralph Junction a location notorious for crashes.

It doesn't detail that change at all, my assumption is that it will be a two way bus lane street, with cars only allowed eastbound in their own lane. More on this below.

 

The Bx6 SBS is unusual. First, the route doesn't have an existing limited route to convert to SBS, unlike the Bx12, M15, B44, or B46. Second, the local route will stay, unlike the M86 or M23.

 

IMO the B82 SBS should continue on Kings Highway past Flatbush unlike the current B82, which turns right. Then the B82 SBS should turn right on Glenwood and continue the whole way until Pennsylvania Av. This should be done for both directions of B82 SBS, and anyway, even if the B82 retained the same route, would be much faster for SBS riders since Glenwood has fewer routes and bus frequency than Flatlands.

I agree with the Bx6 SBS sentiments. Make it a full SBS, forget this local crap!

 

I removed the LIC stuff, I honestly don't have much opinion one way or the other because I have not kept up with the growth and changes in the area.

 

As for the B82, 6 general thoughts, the last one responds to you agar io:

 

1. They shafted Coney Island - They would've handed out so many summonses, the neighborhood would've rioted anyway - for no good reason. Plus the Coney Island trips don't get served as extensively during the day as they used to. Most people use the train to somewhere further in the route (East 16th Street) instead. Saves them no time in their overall trip, but whatever works for them.

 

2. If the idea for the Rockaway Parkway Station area is what I just assumed above - they don't need a SBS at all, just make most of the road changes mentioned (and diagrammed) in the pdf, and you'll speed up service ten-fold! Especially during rush hour, the route configuration and traffic between Rockaway Parkway station and Kings Highway between Coney Island Av and Ocean Av slows the route down.

 

3. The italic pieces in thought number 2 - about that... They barely gave any details about any of the changes east of Flatlands and Louisiana Avenues. I need more on that before I can make more detailed responses on those changes.

 

4. What they currently have detailed looks to be great ideas. Based on the multiple times I have rode the B82 these years (I live by the last stop of the B82 in Spring Creek, so I would know) and the detailed traffic patterns and pedestrian changes they have made make better sense. Problem is, those changes will slow the route just a bit, and it isn't slow in that area anyway, so - with the Rockaway Parkway stuff it'll even itself out.

 

5. There's no need for an Avenue K and Kings Highway stop, the neighborhood probably requested that for convenience, or they just figured it's a traffic light and turn they have to deal with, so might as well stop. It's not necessary.

 

6. That idea about staying on Glenwood both directions till Pennsylvania is a bad idea, since that directly (and unnecessarily) follows the B6 in an area where there is no need to duplicate the B6, eliminates the parking on Glenwood in areas where they need parking over bus service, offsets the travel by adding a walk for the students going to South Shore HS and more importantly Bildersee JHS, and shafts customer traffic for shops on Flatlands Avenue between Ralph and Rockaway Parkway, which includes those students. Also, making Glenwood Road a two way should only be done in high volume areas, and the way I'm assuming they are going about it, is as far as I'd go making that a two way. The B17 branch to Rockaway Parkway is going to have some impact as well on the current layout, but even more impact if your idea was implemented.

I'll just point out a few key points that stood out to me:

 

The B82 is set to end around Ulmer Park and not go to Coney Island when unlike the B46, there is no El or narrow streets that the B82 operates under/on to qualify a cut.

 

A few reroutes in the Flatlands and Canarsie, one which looks good and another that feels like it might hurt more than benefit. The reroute on Av K is also something I think the local should do.

 

[removed for clarity]

 

I think it can be possible to run the SBS between Gateway mall and Coney Island. The mall is more fan service, but as I said before, there is nothing that is stopping the B82 from continuing to Coney Island.

 

 

Damn, Brooklyn must love overhauling SBS routes......

To be blunt, Coney Island doesn't need the B82 SBS. That qualifies the cut.

 

Also, explain more about what you mean by the reroute that looks good and the one that hurts more than it benefits.

 

The reroute on Avenue K is definitely something the locals should do. The MTA would probably be afraid to make that change at first.

 

B82 SBS to Gateway Mall - I don't trust the Belt Parkway with that task. Point blank. Don't care that it's one exit either. 

Edited by Rick44
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To be blunt, Coney Island doesn't need the SBS. That qualifies the cut.

 

Also, expand on the reroute that looks good and the one that hurts more than benefits.

 

The reroute on Avenue K is definitely something the locals should do. The MTA would probably be afraid to make that change at first.

 

B82 SBS to Gateway Mall - I don't trust the Belt Parkway with that task. Point blank. Don't care that it's one exit either.

I'm just worried about the Canarsie rerouting. It seems narrow from what I seen. I think for the most part, whatever they plan is at least decent.

 

As for expansion of both terminals, the gateway area again is more of a fantasy proposal, so I don't expect that to happen, but I'm more confused about the Coney Island part. Probably because I have a mindset that the express variant of the local should run the full route with the local only filling in certain sections, like the Bx12.

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Prior updates from Dante (ENY) and Trevor (I think he mentioned that too), among others, state artics will be on the Bx6 SBS. I agree with you on that whole Bx6 Local elimination - get it overwith, especially when the presentation states "Frequencies will be split between the SBS and the Local".

 

I agree with the Bx6 SBS sentiments. Make it a full SBS, forget this local crap!

I suspect that people complained about having stops removed because of the amount of seniors that use it, along with the numerous hills that the bus traverses. It's one the of main reasons the route sees the usage that it does, otherwise I'm sure more people would just walk.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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I'll just point out a few key points that stood out to me:

 

The B82 is set to end around Ulmer Park and not go to Coney Island when unlike the B46, there is no El or narrow streets that the B82 operates under/on to qualify a cut.

 

A few reroutes in the Flatlands and Canarsie, one which looks good and another that feels like it might hurt more than benefit. The reroute on Av K is also something I think the local should do.

 

The stops are the following:

Seaview Av (Spring Creek)

Schroeders Av

Vandalia Av

E. 105 St

Rockaway Parkway (L)

Remsen Av

E. 80/82 St

Ralph Av

Utica Av

Av K (on Kings Highway)

Flatbush Av

Nostrand Av

Ocean Av

E. 15/16 St (B)(Q)

Coney Island Av

McDonald Av (F)

W 7 St (N)

78 st

86 St (D)

Bath Av

Bay 37 St (Ulmer Park)

 

I think it can be possible to run the SBS between Gateway mall and Coney Island. The mall is more fan service, but as I said before, there is nothing that is stopping the B82 from continuing to Coney Island.

 

 

Damn, Brooklyn must love overhauling SBS routes......

 

From my observations and reading this powerpoint. I would like to point out a few things.

 

1) No need to have an Avenue K and Kings Highway bus stop. While I do agree with the re-route heading down Kings Highway to Avenue K it speeds up the route by a measly few minutes.

 

2) What bothers me is that they are not using Avenue P as a potential re-route. This SBS route would perform excellent if it were re-routed on Avenue P. I get the traffic issues in the area. However, I want to see how they (MTA) and DOT address those issues. Too many business on that stretch of Kings Highway from Ocean Avenue to Ocean Parkway.

 

3) The best thing I see in this presentation is the cut to Coney Island. This here makes the most sense. As a few people here indicated that the CI portion of the route doesn't see heavy ridership, and plus the (B)(Q)(D)(F)(N) provides direct access to Stillwell & Mermaid and West 16th.

 

4) The Canarsie reroute: If the DOT decides to go back to the two-way on Glenwood the stretch between Rockaway Parkway and East 103 is very narrow. I could only think that could be a bus-only access to Rockaway Parkway (L). Finally, glad they are going to address the Flatlands & Ralph intersection.

Edited by Future ENY OP

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sounds like the bx6sbs is going to be like the bx41sbs.

 

the only good things about the B82sbs is midday and later evening service i would think.

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It seems like the MTA does whatever it wants without explanation. The B82 SBS was supposed to start in Bay Ridge. What ever happened to that?

 

It seems like the MTA does whatever it wants without explanation. The B82 SBS was supposed to start in Bay Ridge. What ever happened to that?

 

The B5 and B50 never should have been combined in the first place. The B82 needs to be split up. Now like the B46 they are making people who want to take advantage of the faster service to pay an extra fare from the end of the route if they want a second transfer.

 

Let's look at the proposal for the B82. It simply is to convert the Limited to SBS. A much better route could be designed. Kings Highway is not suitable for SBS. Putting SBS on the two lane congested portion is ridiculous. Traffic on the wide portion moves fine at all times even during rush hours so exclusive lanes are not necessary. They will have no effects on bus speeds but will slow down other traffic considerably causing congestion where none exists now.

 

On Flatlands Avenue exclusive lanes also will not work unless you ban parking. Imagine the delays with only one traffic lane each way when the Belt is backed up.

 

What they could do is the following if they want an SBS route. Truncate the eastern end of the B82 at Ralph Avenue. Make the eastern end SBS and operate it from Spring Creek Towers along its current route to Avenue P (keeping the Limited) and reroute it off Kings Highway to stay on Avenue P and continue along 65 Street stopping only at even numbered avenues where it would make all transfers. It could continue on to Shore Road passing the 59 Street station and down Shore Road until the end. Through travelers do not need a transfer to the Brighton Line which would still be available with the B82 Limited, local and B7.

 

The SBS (B81) could also be extended to Gateway.

 

There is also a plan for the B41 SBS.

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SBS for LIC?

 

At a mayoral town hall in Sunnyside, Mayor de Blasio announced that a SBS route is being looked into the area.

http://www.qchron.com/editions/hoping-to-stay-in-their-homes-stores/article_f834601c-2c37-11e7-a588-83ffc3ab4c13.html

 

Where do you think this route might go?

2 guesses:

 

1] Remember that "nerd bus" that was suggested a while back... well, yeah... That one.

2] The Q101, with a diversion/extension to LGA....

 

edit: added a link.

 

bloody hell on them implementing sbs on the q52/q53 what don't they get when people say NO it's NO!

Yes, because the MTA cares about the riders....

Edited by B35 via Church

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I know that you guys keep talking about the Coney Island section being light and underused. My question is that if it's light, would it be easier to add a few stops after Ulmer Park or would that be too much? I know the idea of SBS is board all doors with fewer stops, but I'm trying to understand why local and not SBS?

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