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Union Tpke

General SBS Discussion

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My guess for LIC SBS would maybe be the Q32.

It duplicates the (7) for most of its route. If not that, then the LIRR. I highly doubt that the MTA will convert an entire route to an SBS route if the bus mostly duplicates the subway.

 

I could be wrong. The B44 and M15 are the exceptions since part of each route duplicates the subway. But they both have local variants and have long stretches with little to no subway duplication.

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What was the last route that actually got LTD service anyway? The Q21 (which is today's Q52)?

Some other recent ones were the B82 and Q70 (before it became SBS).

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It's short in comparison to the entire route, and I have walked from the Grand Concourse to the Boricua College area regularly.  It is a doable walk... Do it consistently in 10 - 15 minutes, and have out walked plenty of Bx6 buses too in that stretch.  Now walking from the Metro-North (East 153rd Street-Yankee Stadium) station to say the Boricua College area is a bit longer, but also doable, and I have done that as well.

 

Eh, the route is about five miles long, so that's 1/5 of the route distance. That's like saying the B1 has a lot of ridership from KCC to Brighton Beach, or the B3 has a lot of ridership from Flatbush Avenue down to East 16th Street....it's like.....OK lol

 

In any case, it's short, but it's long enough that a reasonable, non-lazy person would take the bus, and they're trying to speed up those trips in addition to those traveling more of the route (e.g. from River Avenue out to Hunts Point, or 3rd Avenue to Manhattan)

 

 I do agree that the logical progression should be local -> local/LTD -> local/SBS. It's why I'm kind of surprised they pushed for this before making the Bx15 SBS but they haven't even contemplated new LTD Service in the Bronx since 09. I can think of at least 4 routes that need LTD service, even if its only on a segment of the route/rush hours only (including the Bx6).

 

I'm not convinced they did this on the Hunts Point side.... from my experience Lafayette/Coster has high ridership than Seneca (the post office is near the former for one thing) and Seneca is literally the stop after the (6). I'm not too familiar with the ridership south of Spofford/HP but if the point is to speed up rides, wouldn't it have made more sense to have it stop at Southern, Lafayette, Spofford, then use HP Av straight to Food Center Dr? Viele also seems unnecessary.

 

 

Not sure if you're familiar with the area but River and Gerard are adjacent to each other. The presentation leaves me with the impression the SBS will keep the current Bx6 stop W/B, E/B SBS gets a new stop before the light at River, and the local keeps the E/B stop at Gerard which is fine. The problem is actually the fact that they plan on putting the new W/B local stop at the Bridge Overpass (I'm assuming they expect anyone going west to use the SBS) but its way too far from River to expect passengers coming from the east to walk .The W/B Bx6 local either needs to use the service road from Sherman-River and stop with the Bx13 (not happening) or they remove the parking on the NW side of 161/River and add the stop there.

 

The way I see it, the Bx46's chances of garnering anymore usage than it currently has just went out the window. The only thing I can think of is making it a branch of the Bx6 local.

 

The thing is I remember from earlier discussions that there was a stop added at Gerard, and the Bx6 used to only stop on the west side of River. But I'm looking at Google Streetview and I see an EB Bx13 stop on the service road at the west side of River (for 149th Street-bound buses), and an EB Bx6 stop on the main road between River & Gerard (with the rush hour Bx13 3rd Avenue trips stopping there). Westbound, I see a WB Bx6 stop on the main road between River & Gerard, and a WB Bx13 stop at the west side of River on the service road.

 

If that's the case, then the current Bx6 stops make sense in terms of proximity to the attractions (since west of River is the park and baseball field, which aren't big draws for Bronx residents in general, let alone on non-game days). 

 

And yeah, I was thinking as some sort of local variant (either to River Avenue, or as a branch to 168th Street, as was mentioned in previous threads).

 

Maybe I'm stuck on the mindset that SBS isn't that much different than LTD service, but the way I see it, LTD service should have never been a thing.... It's NYC being late as usual when it comes to public transportation..... The enhancement/complement to trips making all stops on some route should have been off board payment that makes the "traditional" LTD stops (xfers to other bus routes).... Instead, we have buses running local service, buses running LTD service (for now anyway), and buses making even less stops than LTD service..... On top of it, we have this failed attempt at a BRT that's essentially phasing out LTD service - that comes fully equipped with the prerequisite of worsened local service (for the routes that still have a local counterpart, that is)....

 

I don't agree that "traditional" LTD routes should have off-board fare payment. That may work on some Manhattan routes and some of the current +SBS+ routes, where you have enough demand to run both the local and limited from end-to-end. But when you're dealing with areas like Staten Island or Eastern Queens where it's hub-and-spoke based, it's not going to work out. That means that you're going to have to keep off-board fare payment machines for every stop out to the very end, or run both the limited and the local out to the very end. Not to mention that a lot of those routes are rush hour-only. 

 

Some other recent ones were the B82 and Q70 (before it became SBS).

 

The Q58 also got limited-stop service at the same time as the B82 (around 2010). 

 

The S79 became +SBS+ (with traditional on-board payment) in September 2012, so I'm not sure if you want to count that, but that was after the Q21 LTD/Q52 (the Q21 LTD was created in January 2012, and expanded/converted to the Q52 in July 2012).

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I don't agree that "traditional" LTD routes should have off-board fare payment. That may work on some Manhattan routes and some of the current +SBS+ routes, where you have enough demand to run both the local and limited from end-to-end. But when you're dealing with areas like Staten Island or Eastern Queens where it's hub-and-spoke based, it's not going to work out. That means that you're going to have to keep off-board fare payment machines for every stop out to the very end, or run both the limited and the local out to the very end. Not to mention that a lot of those routes are rush hour-only.

I get what you're saying, but at the same time, I don't agree with the phasing out of current LTD service to have buses making less stops.....

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Eh, the route is about five miles long, so that's 1/5 of the route distance. That's like saying the B1 has a lot of ridership from KCC to Brighton Beach, or the B3 has a lot of ridership from Flatbush Avenue down to East 16th Street....it's like.....OK lol

 

In any case, it's short, but it's long enough that a reasonable, non-lazy person would take the bus, and they're trying to speed up those trips in addition to those traveling more of the route (e.g. from River Avenue out to Hunts Point, or 3rd Avenue to Manhattan).

Trying is the key word. Whether they'll succeed is the question. Yes a reasonable person can take the bus in that stretch, and one who can get to their destination faster walking would do that as well.

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Question and before someone chops me at the knees I know next to nothing about the bus system. Besides the slow B48 and B45 that run near my house plus what I hear you guys talk about. Just looking at areas served wouldn't the Bx19 be a possible candidate for SBS? Crosstown line and connects to other SBS routes 12,41 and soon to be 6 what are the qualifiers for SBS? 36 might be another line or a 36,40/42 combo? Just thinking out loud. 

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Question and before someone chops me at the knees I know next to nothing about the bus system. Besides the slow B48 and B45 that run near my house plus what I hear you guys talk about. Just looking at areas served wouldn't the Bx19 be a possible candidate for SBS? Crosstown line and connects to other SBS routes 12,41 and soon to be 6 what are the qualifiers for SBS? 36 might be another line or a 36,40/42 combo? Just thinking out loud. 

Go out and use it then.  You talk about how we're "limiting" ourselves from a transit perspective and all you use the subway.  A bit a of a hypocrite to say the least.  What do you use to get around when you don't use the subway? You drive? You're a native New Yorker and have barely used the bus system. Pretty embarrassing, especially considering that you grew in a neighborhood without a subway. Regarding the Bx19 I've rode it a few times in Manhattan. I don't know about it having SBS, or not, but it sure as hell runs poorly.  I would use it to get up hilly parts of the city, but other than that, I would just walk because it comes so infrequently that it's not worth waiting for.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Go out and use it then. You talk about how we're "limiting" ourselves from a transit perspective and all you use the subway. A bit a of a hypocrite to say the least. What do you use to get around when you don't use the subway? You drive? You're a native New Yorker and have barely used the bus system. Pretty embarrassing, especially considering that you grew in a neighborhood without a subway. Regarding the Bx19 I've rode it a few times in Manhattan. I don't know about it having SBS, or not, but it sure as hell runs poorly. I would use it to get up hilly parts of the city, but other than that, I would just walk because it comes so infrequently that it's not worth waiting for.

Wasn't expecting that outburst but before we start jumping to conclusions and speculating let's get the facts.

 

1. When I say I know next to nothing about the Bus system I'm not ashamed to say it. Do I know all the depots and bus types no! Bus rosters and assignments? No! These are the conversations I see all the time so yeah I'm going shoot strait and say that. There's a lot about the MTA's operations I don't know even for the subways that's why I'm asking. I come from a planing,technical and engineering background not to mention I worked for a railcar company which sparked a interest to learn more about NYC's system focus on heavy rail my background there's no attachment to equipment from my POV I don't have to detail on the buses to know the math and surrounding conditions variables and capacity. Just how can we move the most people most effective and efficient under the circumstances.

 

 

2. Of course I rode the bus living in Riverdale what option did I have? Did I know I was riding a RTS and R62 no I learned this later as a adult. To further this point sure I don't ride Buses often and we own a car. Would I ride the bus more? Sure but the routes go no where I travel to. Besides the 45 which go's to Alantic Terminal for Target or Court Street. My office is in Manhattan I live near the Subway where would my interactions with the bus system be? Even with a car I drive once or twice a week tops. I'm a Father you expect me to drag my daughter to swimming or tutoring via 2-3 buses? Or maybe jump on the bus from BJ's after grocery shopping? Bottomline as a 40 something the buses in the Eastern Parkway area travel no where I want to go most roads lead to Williamsburg or GreenPoint. So let's scale it back abit! Hypocrisy yeah I'm going to need you to explain that in more detail.

 

 

 

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Edited by RailRunRob

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Wasn't expecting that outburst but before we start jumping to conclusions and speculating let's get the facts.

 

1. When I say I know next to nothing about the Bus system I'm not ashamed to say it. Do I know all the depots and bus types no! Bus rosters and assignments? No! These are the conversations I see all the time so yeah I'm going shoot strait and say that. There's a lot about the MTA's operations I don't know even for the subways that's why I'm asking. I come from a planing,technical and engineering background not to mention I worked for a railcar company which sparked a interest to learn more about NYC's system focus on heavy rail my background there's no attachment to equipment from my POV I don't have to detail on the buses to know the math and surrounding conditions variables and capacity. Just how can we move the most people most effective and efficient under the circumstances.

 

 

2. Of course I rode the bus living in Riverdale what option did I have? Did I know I was riding a RTS and R62 no I learned this later as a adult. To further this point sure I don't ride Buses often and we own a car. Would I ride the bus more? Sure but the routes go no where I travel to. Besides the 45 which go's to Alantic Terminal for Target or Court Street. My office is in Manhattan I live near the Subway where would my interactions with the bus system be? Even with a car I drive once or twice a week tops. I'm a Father you expect me to drag my daughter to swimming or tutoring via 2-3 buses? Or maybe jump on the bus from BJ's after grocery shopping? Bottomline as a 40 something the buses in the Eastern Parkway area travel no where I want to go most roads lead to Williamsburg or GreenPoint. So let's scale it back abit! Hypocrisy yeah I'm going to need you to explain that in more detail.

 

 

 

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Aren't we mighty defensive.  Forget about now... But growing up for crying out loud, you didn't travel anywhere by bus outside of Riverdale?  I've traveled all over the place through the five boroughs, and even then there's plenty of lines I haven't used, but I've used a good portion of the subway and bus lines in Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, Manhattan and the Bronx.  You need to get out an explore more.  Most of the commuting I've done via transit has been to explore different parts of the city.  I still remember when I was younger taking trips up to the Cloisters with the M4 bus, and even taking the subway the (1) line up to explore Van Cortlandt Park as a teenager.  Mind you I had no knowledge of the Bronx at the time growing up in South Brooklyn, but nevertheless I was curious.  

 

---

Back to the Bx19 bus... I personally think the frequencies should be improved and maybe then we can talk about SBS service, but I don't know enough about the line to talk particulars. I just know it needs to run more.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Aren't we mighty defensive. Forget about now... But growing up for crying out loud, you didn't travel anywhere by bus outside of Riverdale? I've traveled all over the place through the five boroughs, and even then there's plenty of lines I haven't used, but I've used a good portion of the subway and bus lines in Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, Manhattan and the Bronx. You need to get out an explore more. Most of the commuting I've done via transit has been to explore different parts of the city. I still remember when I was younger taking trips up to the Cloisters with the M4 bus, and even taking the subway the (1) line up to explore Van Cortlandt Park as a teenager. Mind you I had no knowledge of the Bronx at the time growing up in South Brooklyn, but nevertheless I was curious.

 

---

Back to the Bx19 bus... I personally think the frequencies should be improved and maybe then we can talk about SBS service, but I don't know enough about the line to talk particulars. I just know it needs to run more.

 

Defensive huh? Cause-and-effect I suppose. Of course I rode bus all over I attended Art and Design in HS I had friends in every borough. Riding just to ride umm can't say I was fully. I was curious too more about chasing girls which I Believe isn't too abnormal for teenage boys. Again interest in rail didn't come until my well in my twenties. I asked about the 19 because my Business partner lives near City College when walking from the Subway Via 145 the line seems to have heavy ridership. So SBS came to mind.

 

 

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Defensive huh? Cause-and-effect I suppose. Of course I rode bus all over I attended Art and Design in HS I had friends in every borough. Riding just to ride umm can't say I was fully. I was curious too more about chasing girls which I Believe isn't too abnormal for teenage boys. Again interest in rail didn't come until my well in my twenties. I asked about the 19 because my Business partner lives near City College when walking from the Subway Via 145 the line seems to have heavy ridership. So SBS came to mind.

 

 

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Well there isn't anything along 145th but the Bx19 to my knowledge, which sucks because it is a very annoying hilly area.  I suppose SBS could help.  Seems like the line is unreliable.  I've been up there for business purposes and have wondered why that corridor sees such limited bus service. 

 

There's a difference between traveling around exploring NYC and fanning.  If you hung out with friends like I did, then you traveled around to different places, even when chasing chicks.  That was what I was getting at, as in you weren't just confined to your neighborhood, otherwise, it's odd that you would have so little usage of buses.  My friends and I sure as hell used public transit to get around even with girlfriends.  We were too young to drive so that was the only option when going to the city and such, and believe me, none of us were in to buses or trains, but that's how we got around.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Well there isn't anything along 145th but the Bx19 to my knowledge, which sucks because it is a very annoying hilly area.  I suppose SBS could help.  Seems like the line is unreliable.  I've been up there for business purposes and have wondered why that corridor sees such limited bus service. 

 

There's a difference between traveling around exploring NYC and fanning.  If you hung out with friends like I did, then you traveled around to different places, even when chasing chicks.  That was what I was getting at, as in you weren't just confined to your neighborhood, otherwise, it's odd that you would have so little usage of buses.  My friends and I sure as hell used public transit to get around even with girlfriends.  We were too young to drive so that was the only option when going to the city and such, and believe me, none of us were in to buses or trains, but that's how we got around.

The quintessential City kid story, A time before being able to drive for me. Is Redbirds on the (C) and R110 trains just hitting service to sum it up. Another lifetime but I hear you. If it's any consultation I did ride the Bus when I lived in CA. Good ole AC transit and SFMTA. (Shrugs) Wasn't that I was too young but too broke to drive during this period.

Edited by RailRunRob

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Matter of time before the MTA puts SBS on the Bx19.... The question I more have is, how are they gonna f*** up that line any further with it....

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Matter of time before the MTA puts SBS on the Bx19.... The question I more have is, how are they gonna f*** up that line any further with it....

You think so?  Why is that?

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The Bx19 has too many stops. I've rode it during the summer and jeez it got stuck easily at every intersection and the countless summer camps that got on lol. The bus was so packed at one point the back door wouldn't close.

 

 

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The Bx19 has too many stops. I've rode it during the summer and jeez it got stuck easily at every intersection and the countless summer camps that got on lol. The bus was so packed at one point the back door wouldn't close.

 

 

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I just looked at the route.  I could see it being SBS in the future. It ends literally right where the Bronx Zoo, Fordham University and Botanical Garden are located.  Talk about a triple whammy. 

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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I just looked at the route. I could see it being SBS in the future. It ends literally right where the Bronx Zoo, Fordham University and Botanical Garden are located. Talk about a triple whammy.

The reason I don't see it as being in SBS is because it runs under the (2)(5) . Otherwise I don't see why not.

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I just looked at the route.  I could see it being SBS in the future. It ends literally right where the Bronx Zoo, Fordham University and Botanical Garden are located.  Talk about a triple whammy. 

and Bx19 buses are most crowded along 149th Street. What a great triple whammy. 

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The reason I don't see it as being in SBS is because it runs under the (2)(5) . Otherwise I don't see why not.

But given how crappy the (2)(5) runs (especially on weekends), that's even more of a reason to make it SBS. lol

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I just looked at the route. I could see it being SBS in the future. It ends literally right where the Bronx Zoo, Fordham University and Botanical Garden are located. Talk about a triple whammy.

 

Good point however, I was going in the Riverside Park direction and the bus was packed all the way there from 149th street.

 

 

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The reason I don't see it as being in SBS is because it runs under the (2)(5) . Otherwise I don't see why not.

Not inclusive, they'd have SBS' skipping current Bx19 stops from Westchester av/W. Farms rd area, to Boston rd....

 

After what was done with the B44 & B46, I'm convinced the MTA will do absolutely anything  to make SBS work (the way they see fit, anyway)....

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After what was done with the B44 & B46, I'm convinced the MTA will do absolutely anything to make SBS work (the way they see fit, anyway)....

 

+ 1. Ditto.

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What happened with the Flushing - Columbus Circle SBS proposal via Northern BLVD?

 

Might not happen for another few years.

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Flushing - Columbus Circle? What, the Q66 that deep into Manhattan... Or Manhattan, period....

As if the Q60 & the Q32 isn't enough.... The Q101 also (which shouldn't be running to Manhattan in the first place).....

 

Smh, If that doesn't prove my theory correct about SBS, I don't know what does....

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