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SI Bus Study sort of up on MTA website


Union Tpke

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1. That's likely because the express buses aren't going to their final destination.  I'm aware of the people that get off and take the subway, but there are plenty that don't.  When I worked on the Upper West Side and Chelsea, I would take the subway either because there was no express bus or because the express bus I was on didn't go to where I was going.  Paying $6.50 is a rip off if people who would normally take one bus.  I've said it before and I'll say it again.  More transfers means more chances of commuters being screwed over by a delay of some sort.  Given how horrid the subways have been of late, the last thing we should be doing is literally forcing more people onto a system that clearly can NOT handle it, leading to more delays and more issues.  I also foresee some people saying the hell with it and driving in and I don't blame them.  The whole point of the express bus was to give people who lived in two fare zones a quick way to and from Manhattan and now they expect people to pay $6.50 and then have another transfer who previously didn't.  I don't have a problem with them restructuring the Staten Island portions and eliminating stops, but they should not just have Midtown and Downtown service with nothing in between.  Given the amount of feedback on Silive, many agree with what I'm saying here.

 

2. I would disagree with you on that. In the AM, that depends on what buses you are taking.  The earlier ones (meaning the first buses in the morning) can be VERY crowded before it even reaches say Forest and Clove, so obviously someone uses those buses.  Additionally, I would often take the X30 near to the Randall Manor/Silver Lake area and found people still using it, so I don't necessarily agree with it being removed from that area.  That means that anyone along Victory Blvd would have to either take a long walk up and down those hills or take a local bus or drive.  This plan will definitely put more cars on the road, but as usual, the (MTA) doesn't think things through.  As for the X16, it got usage in Randall Manor and Silver Lake, particularly the apartments there on Victory Blvd.

 

1. It's no different than NJT/MNRR/LIRR riders having to transfer once they're in Manhattan (and they have to pay an extra fare to boot). And yes, MNRR/LIRR still do have some intra-city riders.

 

As a matter of fact, the MTA representatives specifically said that was the type of model they were going for (just put people off at a few points and have them take the subway or local bus from there)

 

Now as I mentioned before, I do agree with you that there should be some form of service going to the area between Downtown & Midtown. At least something headed towards the North Shore (some version of the X10B) and something headed down Hylan Blvd.

 

See the thing that I can agree with them on is that having an express bus serve both Downtown & Midtown via local streets can cause heavy delays and bunching. I've seen my fair share of X17s and (especially) X10s bunching on 30 minute headways. Even the X1 has its moments. And then on top of that, on the weekends, you have all these parades in Midtown and the reroutes & detours just add to the delays. And then with all this bunching, you end up with people waiting Downtown while multiple buses pass by them filled with people further up the route.

 

I would rather have more frequent, more reliable service that requires a transfer, rather than less reliable service that offers a one-seat ride. My dad also takes the express bus (and while he might be a little more transit-saavy than a typical commuter, he's definitely not a transit enthusiast) and I showed him the leaked plan and he said he agrees with the general idea of what they're trying to do.

 

2. Just because it was crowded early in the morning doesn't necessarily mean a significant amount of those people were coming from points before Brighton Avenue. 

 

Yes, it turned out it was the real thing. I am glad I found it so we could discuss it several weeks before it was intended to be released.

 

Agreed.

 

Now the conspiracy theorist in me says they did it on purpose to get our feedback, which gives them a little more time to refine it before it was released to the general public. (I mean, they released it early in the morning on a Sunday, and pretty much as soon as you found it, it was taken down).

 

Of course, mistakes do happen of course, but the timing of it just seemed odd. If it was accidentally released I would think that it would be on a weekday. 

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* If there's very little recovery time at the other end of the line, that bus should generally be released (unless the next bus is a full 30 minutes away, but in those cases, I'd almost be inclined to just say screw it and add another bus to the schedule to account for those situations)

 

 

Are you saying that NYCT should schedule more service than is needed just in case DOT forgets how to run the ferry? Wouldn't a better solution focus on properly managing the ferry to keep it reliable (without creating an "MTA Boat Company")?

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1. It's no different than NJT/MNRR/LIRR riders having to transfer once they're in Manhattan (and they have to pay an extra fare to boot). And yes, MNRR/LIRR still do have some intra-city riders.

 

As a matter of fact, the MTA representatives specifically said that was the type of model they were going for (just put people off at a few points and have them take the subway or local bus from there)

 

Now as I mentioned before, I do agree with you that there should be some form of service going to the area between Downtown & Midtown. At least something headed towards the North Shore (some version of the X10B) and something headed down Hylan Blvd.

 

See the thing that I can agree with them on is that having an express bus serve both Downtown & Midtown via local streets can cause heavy delays and bunching. I've seen my fair share of X17s and (especially) X10s bunching on 30 minute headways. Even the X1 has its moments. And then on top of that, on the weekends, you have all these parades in Midtown and the reroutes & detours just add to the delays. And then with all this bunching, you end up with people waiting Downtown while multiple buses pass by them filled with people further up the route.

 

I would rather have more frequent, more reliable service that requires a transfer, rather than less reliable service that offers a one-seat ride. My dad also takes the express bus (and while he might be a little more transit-saavy than a typical commuter, he's definitely not a transit enthusiast) and I showed him the leaked plan and he said he agrees with the general idea of what they're trying to do.

 

2. Just because it was crowded early in the morning doesn't necessarily mean a significant amount of those people were coming from points before Brighton Avenue.

1. My issue is we already have express buses that only make say eight stops and they are still caught in a ton of traffic. Sure cut some stops and make routes more direct. The traffic will still be there and that's the real problem here. If traffic isn't such a big issue, routes like the X10 and X17 don't take any longer than the subway, and I say this because I can recall taking the subway and trying to catch an X10 Downtown and that bus kept up right with the subway. I made it to the bus but barely, so the idea that some lines make too many stops is just a lie. It's the traffic that's a problem. Hell the BxM1 makes only eight stops in Manhattan and yet it can take 40 minutes from 96th down to 56th, and that's without the bus making every stop in most cases, so unless you address the traffic you just have a bus making fewer stops still stuck in traffic. Don't get me wrong, restructuring is needed, but my issue with them is they're trying to sell this as if the traffic will suddenly go away if you have more buses stopping pick-ups at 23rd Street. We already have numerous Super Express buses running from 57th to 23rd to "speed" up commutes and they too are stuck in traffic, so what happens when they decide to say oh these buses are spending too much time in traffic too? We need restructuring of some lines yes, but we also need traffic mitigation as well.

2. Even so, how much time is being saved running from Victory and Clove and Victory and Forest? What? 5 minutes? So you save 5 minutes and inconvenience anyone who actually does get on at the eliminated stops. A route like the off-peak X17 you restructure. Restructuring the X30 is stupid because it does more harm than good and you already have enough people driving to lines like the X12 and down to Hylan for express bus service from the North Shore. Cutting peoples' service doesn't stop them from using express buses. It just means that they either drive to another line and clog up the roads or they drive altogether and clog up the roads. This is a point made on the SiLive page and one that I've seen in action daily as a express bus commuter. There are people that can drive in and will because they're going to say why in the hell should I pay $6.50 to transfer to the subway? The LIRR and MNRR are a different animal because it's not as if those riders had Downtown service in the first place, not to mention that plenty of people don't have to transfer to a subway after getting off. There are plenty of people in my area that ride the MNRR precisely to avoid the subway. As I said, they had better plan this right or it'll make congestion worse than what it is. You try to force people into doing something and they'll give the (MTA) the middle finger and do their own thing. Restructure what makes sense to restructure, but don't go crazy.

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Are you saying that NYCT should schedule more service than is needed just in case DOT forgets how to run the ferry? Wouldn't a better solution focus on properly managing the ferry to keep it reliable (without creating an "MTA Boat Company")?

Oh please. Everyone talks about the ferry like it's so reliable. Those boats are built like crap and constantly break down. You think the (7) is bad. Try relying on that boat to get to and from Manhattan. Not only that but the daily grind of waiting for the boat, hoping the bus is on time and doesn't miss the ferry, then hoping the ferry is on time and then hoping the subway is on time is a royal PITA. They've already sunk enough money into those new boats as it is with nothing to show for it, and on top of that, the boats they purchased aren't really built for the type of travel that the SI Ferry does. A failure all around. YES, spend more money to run reliable express bus service. Waiting another 30 minutes when a boat is canceled is pathetic, on top of subway and bus delays.
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1. My issue is we already have express buses that only make say eight stops and they are still caught in a ton of traffic. Sure cut some stops and make routes more direct. The traffic will still be there and that's the real problem here. If traffic isn't such a big issue, routes like the X10 and X17 don't take any longer than the subway, and I say this because I can recall taking the subway and trying to catch an X10 Downtown and that bus kept up right with the subway. I made it to the bus but barely, so the idea that some lines make too many stops is just a lie. It's the traffic that's a problem. Hell the BxM1 makes only eight stops in Manhattan and yet it can take 40 minutes from 96th down to 56th, and that's without the bus making every stop in most cases, so unless you address the traffic you just have a bus making fewer stops still stuck in traffic. Don't get me wrong, restructuring is needed, but my issue with them is they're trying to sell this as if the traffic will suddenly go away if you have more buses stopping pick-ups at 23rd Street. We already have numerous Super Express buses running from 57th to 23rd to "speed" up commutes and they too are stuck in traffic, so what happens when they decide to say oh these buses are spending too much time in traffic too? We need restructuring of some lines yes, but we also need traffic mitigation as well.

2. Even so, how much time is being saved running from Victory and Clove and Victory and Forest? What? 5 minutes? So you save 5 minutes and inconvenience anyone who actually does get on at the eliminated stops. A route like the off-peak X17 you restructure. Restructuring the X30 is stupid because it does more harm than good and you already have enough people driving to lines like the X12 and down to Hylan for express bus service from the North Shore. Cutting peoples' service doesn't stop them from using express buses. It just means that they either drive to another line and clog up the roads or they drive altogether and clog up the roads. This is a point made on the SiLive page and one that I've seen in action daily as a express bus commuter. There are people that can drive in and will because they're going to say why in the hell should I pay $6.50 to transfer to the subway? The LIRR and MNRR are a different animal because it's not as if those riders had Downtown service in the first place, not to mention that plenty of people don't have to transfer to a subway after getting off. There are plenty of people in my area that ride the MNRR precisely to avoid the subway. As I said, they had better plan this right or it'll make congestion worse than what it is. You try to force people into doing something and they'll give the (MTA) the middle finger and do their own thing. Restructure what makes sense to restructure, but don't go crazy.

 

1. Alright well no disagreement that traffic needs to be handled better. The thing is that at least with a physically shorter route, you don't have additional delays from extra passengers that built up as a result of the delay. Right now if a bus comes in 20 minutes late to Worth Street, it might end up leaving Battery Place 30 minutes late even if there was no traffic Downtown because you had all the extra people who were trying to catch the following bus.

 

And on the Midtown end, at least once you leave 23rd Street (or 42nd Street) you don't have to worry about additional delays from extra passengers (of course, you still have to deal with whatever traffic is on the expressways between Manhattan and Staten Island, but like I said, I fully agree with you there that things like bus lanes should be implemented to help move buses in places that don't currently have them)

 

2. Well, if they keep buses at Victory & Clove they've got to figure out a better layover spot in the morning, because as of right now, those buses make traffic worse in that area. They can't layover at the actual first stop because you have all the S62/91/92 buses picking up & dropping off people, so they layover before the intersection and help contribute to traffic backups down Victory. 

 

Are you saying that NYCT should schedule more service than is needed just in case DOT forgets how to run the ferry? Wouldn't a better solution focus on properly managing the ferry to keep it reliable (without creating an "MTA Boat Company")?

 

No I am not saying that. 30 minute headways is 30 minute headways. What I'm saying is that if you have a line like the S62 or S76 where they put 3 buses on the line and give them the bare minimum recovery time, then perhaps it would be better to run the same 30 minute headways using 4 buses because at least if the bus gets to the end of the line late, it gives the B/O a chance to be on time for the next trip.

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What we also need is a direct Express bus service to the Hudson Yards Complex once that is completed, I.e. Far West side.

 

I don't think there would be significantly more demand compared to other parts of Midtown. Besides, it's just one stop on the (7) train heading back from Times Square (or under the current configuration, you just walk back from 34th & 9th). 

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I don't think there would be significantly more demand compared to other parts of Midtown. Besides, it's just one stop on the (7) train heading back from Times Square (or under the current configuration, you just walk back from 34th & 9th).

You noticed that I didn't say now. And it's actually 30-34th St in the vincinity of 10/11/WSH. One or two routes can hit the area from there if people don't use the 7. You sometimes can't always rely on the subways all the time, even though the M12 has recently picked up more ridership since.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

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2. Well, if they keep buses at Victory & Clove they've got to figure out a better layover spot in the morning, because as of right now, those buses make traffic worse in that area. They can't layover at the actual first stop because you have all the S62/91/92 buses picking up & dropping off people, so they layover before the intersection and help contribute to traffic backups down Victory.

I thought they widened Victory in that area anyway to allow for better traffic flow?
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You don't like Cappelli. Grimm was convicted of doing illegal acts and was completely useless to his constituents as a result. Cappelli was a volunteer on the (MTA) board. Grimm was not. You're comparing apples and oranges.

OT, but I'm just wondering where you guys get local and state politics news from. NYT, NYP, NYDN, SI Advance, Streetsblog and Brooklyn Eagle are way too thin on covering politics that I see you guys mentioning people and things they've done and can't find any background.

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OT, but I'm just wondering where you guys get local and state politics news from. NYT, NYP, NYDN, SI Advance, Streetsblog and Brooklyn Eagle are way too thin on covering politics that I see you guys mentioning people and things they've done and can't find any background.

As a former Staten Island resident, I was quite involved in the political side of things, and voted for several politicians. They include politicians such as Michael Grimm, Vito Fossella, and Dan Donovan. I did my own research about elected officials, and also was in regular contact with some of them on issues such as express bus service, so I speak often times from personal experience. Additionally, I attended a few (MTA) board meetings where I spoke about the need for additional express bus service such as the X1 running over night, which was eventually implemented. I usually used sites such as Silive.

 

You should know what some of the local newspapers can be rather bias towards the North Shore, especially areas north of Forest Avenue. Ironically, my former neighborhood was ranked the most affluent on the entire island. lol I say ironically because even though there are quite a few affluent areas on the North Shore (Randall Manor is one, the next neighborhood over from me), and several others (Emerson Hill, Grymes Hill and Westerleigh come to mind), the papers will usually focus on the South Shore on such issues. I would find out who your elected officials are and contact them on issues that concern you. Where I live now in Riverdale, I regularly speak with my elected officials, and even have spoken with the local community board. People need to understand that we are paying for services and need to be outspoken about the needs of our communities. If your elected officials aren't responsive to your needs, vote them out. I have even been active in former areas of Brooklyn that I've lived in, helping to get numerous local and express buses restored. I may get involved with this project too. Right now from what I'm seeing, this study is total BS and nothing more than the (MTA) trying to pull a fast one on Staten Island commuters. One reason I left Staten Island was because the (MTA) severely slashed express bus service serving West Brighton. Forest Avenue once had FOUR express buses (the X13, X14, X16 and X30). The (MTA) ignored petitions and speakers like myself who slammed them for cutting so much service and basically told us we could just use the ferry. Now they're trying the same crap.

 

Food for thought below:

http://www.silive.com/news/2016/01/the_wealthiest_enclaves_on_sta.html

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I thought they widened Victory in that area anyway to allow for better traffic flow?

 

That was heading westbound. So now there's a separate turning lane for cars turning right from Victory Blvd who want to head north on Clove (I think Walgreens had to fund part of it when they set up shop at that location). But I was referring to the opposite movement (from eastbound Victory to southbound Clove). 

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OT, but I'm just wondering where you guys get local and state politics news from. NYT, NYP, NYDN, SI Advance, Streetsblog and Brooklyn Eagle are way too thin on covering politics that I see you guys mentioning people and things they've done and can't find any background.

 

DNAinfo is the big website that's kind of eating all the little guys alive.

 

I tend to look at the hyperlocal newspapers with a skeptical eye, since more often than not they're tilted towards viewing things from the very old-timers who have the time to care about such things. In areas where the racial composition has changed in the past 20 or so years, this effect can be very biased - I would say the Times-Ledger, for instance, does not cover Flushing news from the perspective of most of Flushing's residents.

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Hmmm....interesting: On page 23 they mention that peak-only routes would have a uniform start/end time. I would hope they would tend to err on the longer side, since if you can get a bus to make an outbound trip at say, 2:30pm, you can get it to Staten Island by say, 4pm or 4:30pm and have it make another trip at say, 6pm or 6:30pm. So if the routes are as solid as they claim them to be, then a nice 5am-9am span in the morning and a 2pm-8pm span in the evening wouldn't be unreasonable to ask for. (Though realistically, I'd expect them to do 3pm-7pm or 3pm-7:30pm).

 

For the routes that run longer than that, I would expect those to be the candidates for off-peak service (hmmm, so I guess you can add the X23/24 to that list I made earlier of routes that would likely get off-peak service)

 

In terms of weekday ridership, the busiest SI express routes are the X17, X1, X10, X22, X12/42, X5, X7, X2, and X15. So like I mentioned, I'm basically willing to bet the X7 would run off-peak, the X22 would run off-peak, and I have a hunch the X17J would run off-peak as well. (Now the question is: Are they really going to leave the entire South Shore with basically just the X22 to Midtown off-peak?)

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That was heading westbound. So now there's a separate turning lane for cars turning right from Victory Blvd who want to head north on Clove (I think Walgreens had to fund part of it when they set up shop at that location). But I was referring to the opposite movement (from eastbound Victory to southbound Clove).

 

I meant all of Victory. That was my understanding when it was first presented years ago. In any event, that bus could layover along Clove somewhere. The real issue it had out of Meredith was running incredibly behind schedule. Sometimes they were so late that they would send buses down Clove to Forest, have people get on there and then have us board another bus at Forest and Richmond Avenue.
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We need a Midtown Manhattan express route along the X15 line on Staten Island.

 

This is the only branch that has service to Lower Manhattan but NO Midtown service.

It's called transfer at Hylan Blvd or drive to Hylan Blvd.  I used to take the X15 and it sucks.  The waits after a certain time are too damn long, and the buses are either late or early which is quite annoying.  For that reason I ditched the X15 and started either going to Hylan where I have MANY more frequent options or getting driven over to the X17J or X12.

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I meant all of Victory. That was my understanding when it was first presented years ago. In any event, that bus could layover along Clove somewhere. The real issue it had out of Meredith was running incredibly behind schedule. Sometimes they were so late that they would send buses down Clove to Forest, have people get on there and then have us board another bus at Forest and Richmond Avenue.

 

Victory Blvd hasn't been widened in any area other than at a couple of specific intersections. You just had the one westbound lane added approaching Clove Road and the one eastbound lane added approaching Richmond Avenue.

 

In any case, there's no other spot to layover. Clove Road has 2 travel lanes and no parking lane. I just don't see a scenario where you're going to have tons of former X30 riders clogging up the roads any more than what the X30 currently does to contribute to traffic in that area. As much as I can't stand the ferry, I just don't physically see people using the X30 along Victory like that.

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Victory Blvd hasn't been widened in any area other than at a couple of specific intersections. You just had the one westbound lane added approaching Clove Road and the one eastbound lane added approaching Richmond Avenue.

 

In any case, there's no other spot to layover. Clove Road has 2 travel lanes and no parking lane. I just don't see a scenario where you're going to have tons of former X30 riders clogging up the roads any more than what the X30 currently does to contribute to traffic in that area. As much as I can't stand the ferry, I just don't physically see people using the X30 along Victory like that.

I'm not sure why you're bringing up the X30 in the comments I made earlier as a way to delegitimize what I said about other routes. The point is there is no reason to inconvenience people that do use it to save a measly five minutes. Taking even a small amount of people off of buses and into their cars is not what should be happening when we already have enough people driving to express buses as it is. When you combine all of the other lines that may push people to drive, it WILL make a difference. All of the X16 people that lost their service... I can assure you many of them didn't just switch to the ferry. A good chunk of those people simply drove to the X12. It isn't a coincidence that the line has seen increased service in the mornings.

 

I support buses making fewer stops and obvious restructuring, but at a time when bus ridership is where it is, we need to be encouraging people to use the system, not pushing them away.

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I mean, we're talking about the X30 starting at Forest & Brighton instead of Victory & Clove. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to talk about the X30 truncation without talking about the X30 lol

 

In the case of X30 passengers along Victory there are very few of them, and as it is now, X30 buses physically block traffic near a very busy intersection (i.e. They actually cause traffic) as a result of having to start where they do. I'm not making any other points about any other routes in that comment.

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I mean, we're talking about the X30 starting at Forest & Brighton instead of Victory & Clove. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to talk about the X30 truncation without talking about the X30 lol

 

In the case of X30 passengers along Victory there are very few of them, and as it is now, X30 buses physically block traffic near a very busy intersection (i.e. They actually cause traffic) as a result of having to start where they do. I'm not making any other points about any other routes in that comment.

Please. And the local buses don't cause ANY traffic along Victory... *Sarcasm*
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Is it just me or are they giving the impression that all the Downtown routes are going along one route through the center (most likely Trinity Place/ Broadway)?

 

I don't that's going to go over well with the folks who work near Water Street...

 

Yes, that is most likely what they are actually proposing.

 

Please. And the local buses don't cause ANY traffic along Victory... *Sarcasm*

 

Boy are you dense.

 

For starters, there's a difference between buses standing still blocking a lane versus a moving bus.

 

Second of all, we're talking about a completely empty bus (that will only pick up a handful of people tops along the portion of Victory Blvd it travels up) versus standing-room-only or sometimes crushloaded local buses. In this particular case the express bus is causing more traffic compared to the number of cars it potentially takes off the road. You can't say that about the local buses.

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Boy are you dense.

 

For starters, there's a difference between buses standing still blocking a lane versus a moving bus.

 

Second of all, we're talking about a completely empty bus (that will only pick up a handful of people tops along the portion of Victory Blvd it travels up) versus standing-room-only or sometimes crushloaded local buses. In this particular case the express bus is causing more traffic compared to the number of cars it potentially takes off the road. You can't say that about the local buses.

No, I'm only "dense" because you're full of crap.  You're trying to justify cutting the route back and I'm challenging you on it.  You are assuming that only a few people would be affected by such a cut back even though you acknowledge that you're not sure what exactly the usage is, when the time saved would be maybe five minutes tops.  Then you go on to talk about how there's no where for the bus to lay over and how it blocks traffic oh so bad  <_<, but the local buses aren't an issue because they pick up and go. Well here's a question for you... If it was that much of an issue for alllllll of these years, why hasn't it been addressed?  I don't buy it.  I've seen buses laid over there for years on a daily basis (I've often times used the express buses right over there after making a stop in the morning), and I can't possibly imagine how "terrible" the congestion would be, especially considering that part of Victory was widened.  The X30 bus stop isn't even with the local buses anyway, so in theory, the only way that the bus would block up traffic is if it was parked at the local bus stop, and if it is, then the idiot B/Os can simply lay over where they're supposed to.  Problem solved.

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No, I'm only "dense" because you're full of crap.  You're trying to justify cutting the route back and I'm challenging you on it.  You are assuming that only a few people would be affected by such a cut back even though you acknowledge that you're not sure what exactly the usage is, when the time saved would be maybe five minutes tops.  Then you go on to talk about how there's no where for the bus to lay over and how it blocks traffic oh so bad  <_<, but the local buses aren't an issue because they pick up and go. Well here's a question for you... If it was that much of an issue for alllllll of these years, why hasn't it been addressed?  I don't buy it.  I've seen buses laid over there for years on a daily basis (I've often times used the express buses right over there after making a stop in the morning), and I can't possibly imagine how "terrible" the congestion would be, especially considering that part of Victory was widened.  The X30 bus stop isn't even with the local buses anyway, so in theory, the only way that the bus would block up traffic is if it was parked at the local bus stop, and if it is, then the idiot B/Os can simply lay over where they're supposed to.  Problem solved.

 

Every time I take the limited-stop bus through there, every single person waiting at the stop (either Clove Road, Eddy Street, or Forest Avenue) boards the bus. Not a single person stands back and lets the bus go. That I'm confident on, and that's from years of using the S92 through there.

 

And nice of you to ignore the second part of my statement: The local buses actually get significant usage in that area.  ;) You're talking 40-50 people per local bus, compared to what, 5 tops on the X30?

 

No, that part of Victory wasn't widened, and you want to talk about being full of crap. It's still one lane for left turns and another lane for right turns & through traffic and that's it. And the first X30 stop is with the local/limited buses on the southeast corner of Victory & Clove (again, more crap from you) but that's not actually where they layover. They layover near that baseball field down by Ontario Avenue.

 

Why haven't they suggested anything until now? Well for starters, you know how slowly the MTA goes about things. I don't even know if they were concerned about having buses layover in a congested area or if they were purely just concerned about ridership.

 

Yeah, from the perspective of ridership, I don't think it's a big deal to have the buses continue down Victory. But you're not going to convince me on some congestion-based argument. Maybe for restoring the X16 or something like that, sure, but not for sending the X30 down to Sunnyside.

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