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SI Bus Study sort of up on MTA website


Union Tpke

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You'd be surprised at how ridership works in S.I. You would think it would die down around 8-9 pm? Nope. Its basically the subway of the island.

 

I would never forget those Friday and Saturday nights I would come home from the city around 1:30-2am, and the X1 is packed!

 

Also, Sunday morning going into Staten Island, X10s and X1s tend to have fully seated loads, been happening often as of late.

 

One thing that I think should happen with the Hylan Blvd corridor is to have some type of system where certain routes don't start dropping off until they reach a certain part, or in the mornings pick up until a certain location, and then just drive to the city. For example, since the X2 ends at New Dorp, you would have another route run all the way to New Dorp, and drop off only after New Dorp.

 

Same thing with the West Shore routes.

 

 

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People take the express bus to Manhattan at 9PM at night? Wow...

lol... There's only a few express bus lines that really see heavy usage that late at night.  X1, X10 and BxM1 come to mind.  Some of the Bronx express buses do too (BxM11 - that 23:00 bus is quite crowded).  Lot of people working overnight taking those buses.  For the Staten Island express buses it's a mix of things. People going to the city to hang out, and people working overnight.  The X1 really opened up express bus service late at night for Staten Island.  The X1 will eventually need service every 20 - 30 minutes that late at night because the buses are packed (almost SRO). The (MTA) hasn't added it yet because they're trying to be cheap, but those buses will eventually see SRO crowds if they aren't already.  Unlike the X27 along Shore Road which serves the more affluent demographic in Bay Ridge that use it solely to go and relax in Manhattan, Staten Island is a different animal entirely.  I've even taken the X1 at 00:00 to Manhattan from New Dorp, and those buses see 15 - 20 people even when it's cold out.  What's interesting though particularly with the X1s though is a lot of those people get off Downtown and transfer to the (A).  That is true of the X10 but not as much.  More people stay on up until 14th street for Union Square and then some.  

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lol... There's only a few express bus lines that really see heavy usage that late at night. X1, X10 and BxM1 come to mind. Some of the Bronx express buses do too (BxM11 - that 23:00 bus is quite crowded). Lot of people working overnight taking those buses. For the Staten Island express buses it's a mix of things. People going to the city to hang out, and people working overnight. The X1 really opened up express bus service late at night for Staten Island. The X1 will eventually need service every 20 - 30 minutes that late at night because the buses are packed (almost SRO). The (MTA) hasn't added it yet because they're trying to be cheap, but those buses will eventually see SRO crowds if they aren't already. Unlike the X27 along Shore Road which serves the more affluent demographic in Bay Ridge that use it solely to go and relax in Manhattan, Staten Island is a different animal entirely. I've even taken the X1 at 00:00 to Manhattan from New Dorp, and those buses see 15 - 20 people even when it's cold out. What's interesting though particularly with the X1s though is a lot of those people get off Downtown and transfer to the (A). That is true of the X10 but not as much. More people stay on up until 14th street for Union Square and then some.

Oh no those X1 in the middle of the night are SRO, people don't complain because they know its the middle of the night, buses don't run as often. Its really Friday/Saturday nights I've witnessed it.

 

MTA seriously needs to treat riders accordingly, if you're getting PAYING CUSTOMERS that late at night, how hard is it to add more service. I mean we appreciate the service can yall help us out? Its not like people aren't paying, let people go home in comfort(meaning everyone get a seat).

 

I still hate how they raised the express bus fare. Express bus riders pay their fare, why increase the fare? Isn't that why fares go up? Because of loss revenue?

 

 

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Oh no those X1 in the middle of the night are SRO, people don't complain because they know its the middle of the night, buses don't run as often. Its really Friday/Saturday nights I've witnessed it.

 

MTA seriously needs to treat riders accordingly, if you're getting PAYING CUSTOMERS that late at night, how hard is it to add more service. I mean we appreciate the service can yall help us out? Its not like people aren't paying, let people go home in comfort(meaning everyone get a seat).

 

I still hate how they raised the express bus fare. Express bus riders pay their fare, why increase the fare? Isn't that why fares go up? Because of loss revenue?

 

 

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Remember I was only talking about the express buses going TO Manhattan late at night, NOT the ones going back to Staten Island.  Yes, I've been on my fair share of those where they were SRO.  I even once took a cab from the Penn Station area (bar hopping with friends and lost track of time lol), had the guy floor it down to the last stop to an X1 and just made it. lol I got one of the last seats on the bus that Saturday night and this was after 01:00 in the morning.  The problem with the X1 in particular is when you have teens or young adults from the neighborhood that travel in packs of 10 - 20 (not kidding either).  They ALL go to the friggin city like a pack of tourists and then pack up the express bus at say 14th street.  By the time it gets Downtown, forget it.  More frequent service would help, but I think you would still have SRO buses for that reason.  The holidays are particularly awful for the X1 too.  All of the families go to Christmas shows or go shopping.  During those times they should perhaps consider enhanced holiday schedules because the X1 buses especially are insanely packed.  What I used to do is avoid the X1 after a certain time and stick with the X10. They're also crowded but tend to not have packs of people traveling like that together.

 

With that said, the (MTA) also needs to be careful about trying to address demand. They must know that Staten Islanders can afford the express bus fare being the richest borough (highest median income), so the more service they add, the more people will flock to it.  Ultimately they're going to have to come up with other transportation options to pull people off of those express buses.  It's only going to get worse as a result.  For those who put their kids on the express bus out of safety concerns so that they don't have to use the subway or the ferry, having a fast ferry from parts of Staten Island to other parts of Manhattan could perhaps work.  Make the fare high enough to attract a certain demographic and that would help. This is one reason they tried to break up the X1.  They could see with the headways they were providing exactly what was happening. The more buses they added, the more people flocked to the X1. That's why I favor having express bus service equally spread out across the island so that people on the North Shore aren't running down to Hylan Blvd for express bus service.

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lol... There's only a few express bus lines that really see heavy usage that late at night.  X1, X10 and BxM1 come to mind.  Some of the Bronx express buses do too (BxM11 - that 23:00 bus is quite crowded).  Lot of people working overnight taking those buses.  For the Staten Island express buses it's a mix of things. People going to the city to hang out, and people working overnight.  The X1 really opened up express bus service late at night for Staten Island.  The X1 will eventually need service every 20 - 30 minutes that late at night because the buses are packed (almost SRO). The (MTA) hasn't added it yet because they're trying to be cheap, but those buses will eventually see SRO crowds if they aren't already.  Unlike the X27 along Shore Road which serves the more affluent demographic in Bay Ridge that use it solely to go and relax in Manhattan, Staten Island is a different animal entirely.  I've even taken the X1 at 00:00 to Manhattan from New Dorp, and those buses see 15 - 20 people even when it's cold out.  What's interesting though particularly with the X1s though is a lot of those people get off Downtown and transfer to the (A).  That is true of the X10 but not as much.  More people stay on up until 14th street for Union Square and then some.  

 

Yeah I would expect the buses at night from Manhattan to be pretty crowded, just wasn't expecting the same to Manhattan.

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Yeah I would expect the buses at night from Manhattan to be pretty crowded, just wasn't expecting the same to Manhattan.

It wasn't always this way. It's only become that way recently. There were times when I would go home to Staten Island and then get car service over to the X10 to go back to the city and those buses weren't crowded at all. What's happened is more people moving to the Island and them not taking the ferry.  The X1 running over night basically changed everything. It opened up Staten Island to being far more accessible to Manhattan than every before, so now people will go to Manhattan whenever because they know they have an express bus 24/7.  I'm willing to bet that some people moved there for that reason too.  Better transportation makes areas more attractive.

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It wasn't always this way. It's only become that way recently. There were times when I would go home to Staten Island and then get car service over to the X10 to go back to the city and those buses weren't crowded at all. What's happened is more people moving to the Island and them not taking the ferry.  The X1 running over night basically changed everything. It opened up Staten Island to being far more accessible to Manhattan than every before, so now people will go to Manhattan whenever because they know they have an express bus 24/7.  I'm willing to bet that some people moved there for that reason too.  Better transportation makes areas more attractive.

Yeah, I would have to agree with that X1 change. It's one of the better things the MTA has done recently.

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Yeah I'm saying it because of all of the people that take the X10 and get off at Richmond and Victory. Before the X17's span was increased, those people were on the X10. My issue with the (MTA) is they're not giving the North Shore its fair share of service, so routes like the X17 get inflated while the X10 looks "stagnant".

Yeah I'm saying it because of all of the people that take the X10 and get off at Richmond and Victory. Before the X17's span was increased (by what, a half hour?), those people were on the X10 or in their cars because they don't want to spend an extra 20-25 minutes getting out of the island and doing the same thing on the way back. My issue with the (MTA) is they're not giving the North Shore its fair share of service, so routes like the X17 get inflated while the X10 looks "stagnant".

 

Fixed.  ;)

 

Speaking of the X10, they're going to eventually have to add more service during the week going to Manhattan. The last few X10 buses get quite crowded, not SRO levels yet, but not too far from it either.  I've taken buses at 21:00 and was shocked by how crowded they were, particularly along Richmond Avenue.

 

 

People take the express bus to Manhattan at 9PM at night? Wow...

 

They're really cheap with inbound X1/X10 service in the evening. The X1 runs every hour after 5PM, and the X10 runs every hour after 6:15PM (leaving their respective terminals). If there was more frequent service, buses wouldn't be as crowded.

 

But yeah, the fact that there's no problem filling up an express bus on hourly headways out here is no shock. It's a lot quicker than making your way to the ferry, or taking the S53/79/93 to Brooklyn for the (R) train (generally about 30 minutes quicker, depending on the exact neighborhood you're coming from and the time of day you're traveling)

 

I still hate how they raised the express bus fare. Express bus riders pay their fare, why increase the fare? Isn't that why fares go up? Because of loss revenue?

 

Not just lost revenue, there's also increased expenses. Gas, wages, etc

 

And they didn't raise the express fare in the last fare hike. They cut the bonus (which effectively raises it), but they didn't raise it from $6.50 to $7 like was planned.

 

With that said, the (MTA) also needs to be careful about trying to address demand. They must know that Staten Islanders can afford the express bus fare being the richest borough (highest median income), so the more service they add, the more people will flock to it.  Ultimately they're going to have to come up with other transportation options to pull people off of those express buses.  It's only going to get worse as a result.  For those who put their kids on the express bus out of safety concerns so that they don't have to use the subway or the ferry, having a fast ferry from parts of Staten Island to other parts of Manhattan could perhaps work.  Make the fare high enough to attract a certain demographic and that would help. This is one reason they tried to break up the X1.  They could see with the headways they were providing exactly what was happening. The more buses they added, the more people flocked to the X1. That's why I favor having express bus service equally spread out across the island so that people on the North Shore aren't running down to Hylan Blvd for express bus service.

 

Yeah, keep harping on this affluence crap....as if nobody gets on the X10 over by the Todt Hill Houses or in Port Richmond, or as if there weren't a ton of complaints about the X18 being eliminated from Park Hill. As if you don't see college students using express buses to go to/from school or access retail jobs in Manhattan.

 

If the alternatives are crappy, people will resort to using express buses, affluent or not.

 

You know how to pull people off express buses? Give us better alternatives that are cheaper. Connect the S53/79/93 to the (N) at 59th Street so people aren't forced to take the (R). Run more frequent ferry service. The best thing would just be a subway. I'd gladly take a local bus to Port Richmond or St. George and jump on the subway there but I won't hold my breath on that happening within my lifetime (so you can hold the comments on that). 

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Fixed. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

They're really cheap with inbound X1/X10 service in the evening. The X1 runs every hour after 5PM, and the X10 runs every hour after 6:15PM (leaving their respective terminals). If there was more frequent service, buses wouldn't be as crowded.

 

But yeah, the fact that there's no problem filling up an express bus on hourly headways out here is no shock. It's a lot quicker than making your way to the ferry, or taking the S53/79/93 to Brooklyn for the (R) train (generally about 30 minutes quicker, depending on the exact neighborhood you're coming from and the time of day you're traveling)

 

 

 

Not just lost revenue, there's also increased expenses. Gas, wages, etc

 

And they didn't raise the express fare in the last fare hike. They cut the bonus (which effectively raises it), but they didn't raise it from $6.50 to $7 like was planned.

 

 

 

Yeah, keep harping on this affluence crap....as if nobody gets on the X10 over by the Todt Hill Houses or in Port Richmond, or as if there weren't a ton of complaints about the X18 being eliminated from Park Hill. As if you don't see college students using express buses to go to/from school or access retail jobs in Manhattan.

 

If the alternatives are crappy, people will resort to using express buses, affluent or not.

 

You know how to pull people off express buses? Give us better alternatives that are cheaper. Connect the S53/79/93 to the (N) at 59th Street so people aren't forced to take the (R). Run more frequent ferry service. The best thing would just be a subway. I'd gladly take a local bus to Port Richmond or St. George and jump on the subway there but I won't hold my breath on that happening within my lifetime (so you can hold the comments on that).

 

Let's be honest here. The express bus is a LUXURY for most people. They don't say oh my I HAVE to use the express bus. That's my point. Someone who is struggling to make ends' meet is not thinking about an express bus, and while you claim that everyone uses the express buses on Staten Island, that is simply not true. Those X10 buses generally don't pick up much after Slosson Avenue until the last few stops PAST areas near housing projects, especially off-peak. I used to get on the X10 by the Todt Hill houses as do MANY people because it's a drop-off point, not because so many people from those projects actually use it. Do some use it? Sure, for the occasional ride, but generally not regularly. Let's not act like $13.00 round trip is so cheap. That's almost three times a round trip fare at $2.75 each way, and more than what most people spend on lunch. College kids get monies for transportation and general living expenses in most cases, so of course they'll take the express bus. Why not? My point is someone taking the express bus regularly (not on occasion), is likely middle to upper middle class. Given how expensive things are becoming in NYC in general, spending $239 or more depending on how many weeks there are in the month just for the express bus is not something a poor person is generally going to be able to afford when they barely have money for other basics, so you may not like me saying it, but that's the reality. When you get out on your own and start paying your own way for rent or a mortgage, food, etc (with no help from Mommy and Daddy or college aid), you'll get what I'm saying, or maybe you'll still think $239 is just chump change for the express bus, but in my world it isn't. Some people feed their entire family on that for the month, and if you look at where most express buses run and actually perform well, they tend to run in areas where the residents are either middle class or upper middle class.
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Let's be honest here. The express bus is a LUXURY for most people. They don't say oh my I HAVE to use the express bus. That's my point. Someone who is struggling to make ends' meet is not thinking about an express bus, and while you claim that everyone uses the express buses on Staten Island, that is simply not true. Those X10 buses generally don't pick up much after Slosson Avenue until the last few stops PAST areas near housing projects, especially off-peak. I used to get on the X10 by the Todt Hill houses as do MANY people because it's a drop-off point, not because so many people from those projects actually use it. Do some use it? Sure, for the occasional ride, but generally not regularly. Let's not act like $13.00 round trip is so cheap. That's almost three times a round trip fare at $2.75 each way, and more than what most people spend on lunch. College kids get monies for transportation and general living expenses in most cases, so of course they'll take the express bus. Why not? My point is someone taking the express bus regularly (not on occasion), is likely middle to upper middle class. Given how expensive things are becoming in NYC in general, spending $239 or more depending on how many weeks there are in the month just for the express bus is not something a poor person is generally going to be able to afford when they barely have money for other basics, so you may not like me saying it, but that's the reality. When you get out on your own and start paying your own way for rent or a mortgage, food, etc (with no help from Mommy and Daddy or college aid), you'll get what I'm saying, or maybe you'll still think $239 is just chump change for the express bus, but in my world it isn't. Some people feed their entire family on that for the month, and if you look at where most express buses run and actually perform well, they tend to run in areas where the residents are either middle class or upper middle class.

 

It's not about chump change. It's the same reason why you have people with cars in those same neighborhoods who would prefer not to buy them. If somebody is out and about for 16 hours a day or more, whether it's working multiple jobs, or working a job and going to school, it's understandable why they would spend the extra $120 or so. I've had tutoring clients who wanted a session at say, 6PM and my class ends at 4:30PM. I can't reach them in time unless I take the express bus, and if I reach them too late, I'm out an entire $100 session. And days when I've worked until 11PM, gotten home at midnight and had to wake up at 6AM the next day to get to class on time (which would've been 5AM with the local bus), it's understandable why somebody who doesn't want to spend the money would feel forced to buy the express pass.

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It's not about chump change. It's the same reason why you have people with cars in those same neighborhoods who would prefer not to buy them. If somebody is out and about for 16 hours a day or more, whether it's working multiple jobs, or working a job and going to school, it's understandable why they would spend the extra $120 or so. I've had tutoring clients who wanted a session at say, 6PM and my class ends at 4:30PM. I can't reach them in time unless I take the express bus, and if I reach them too late, I'm out an entire $100 session. And days when I've worked until 11PM, gotten home at midnight and had to wake up at 6AM the next day to get to class on time (which would've been 5AM with the local bus), it's understandable why somebody who doesn't want to spend the money would feel forced to buy the express pass.

You're talking about something completely different. That has nothing to do with what people can and can't afford.
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You're talking about something completely different. That has nothing to do with what people can and can't afford.

 

What are you talking about? I'm giving the example of somebody who would need to take the express bus to reach work/school on time, but still overall makes a low income. They would take the local bus if it were a reasonable alternative. 

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What are you talking about? I'm giving the example of somebody who would need to take the express bus to reach work/school on time, but still overall makes a low income. They would take the local bus if it were a reasonable alternative. 

Ok so use yourself then, but you are not supporting yourself anyway so it's irrelevant. We already talked about low income college kids being able to take the express bus and why. My point still remains. Someone supporting themselves (i.e. the head of their household) taking the express bus daily is likely middle to upper middle class. Even if someone feels "forced" to take it, if they don't have the money, guess what? They'll have to take what they can afford. I had people attending college on the X30 riding daily too. Financial aid allows you to do a lot of things, but once that dried up, you didn't see them anymore.

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  • 3 months later...

I went to the latest meeting. So since they released the proposal, they made some updates:

* The X15 will not bypass Richmondtown (not sure if it was originally an error, but anyway, it'll remain as-is on Staten Island)

* The X19 will end at Hylan & Craig in Tottenville instead of Hylan & Huguenot.

* The X22 & X23 will both end at Hylan & Craig (instead of the X22 ending at Hylan & Page and being the only express route in Tottenville)

* X17A/X17J go to Annadale instead of the X31 as originally proposed (the X17A basically remains as-is)

* X30 goes to Forest & Oxford (basically Forest & Victory) instead of Forest & Brighton.

* X14/42 end at Castleton & Jewett instead of the local bus terminal in Port Richmond (agree with that decision 100%)

* It looks like the X14 will have its first/last Staten Island stop be Clove & Howard (the X15 will cover the Narrows Road stops).

* They're going to do something about the lack of service to the WFC after all the complaints (including from yours truly, even though I don't work there).

* No updates on anything relating to off-peak service. They're not sure if they're going to just pick a few routes and run them off-peak as-is, or combine some routes, or have them all run to Midtown via Downtown.

* It looks like they're leaning towards having the "via NJ" routes run down 34th & 5th/Madison (instead of 42nd & 5th/Madison)/

They had some pamphlets that they gave out which will be posted to their website soon.

I told them that they need to consider the local network in conjunction with this: Even if they only make a few changes, they have to consider that some people may need the local bus to access another express bus (e.g. Take a limited-stop S53 to reach the X2 since the X14 will not serve Midtown). Additionally, they should consider more routes to the (R) train, since some people may decide that if they're going to transfer anyway, they might as well pay $2.75 instead of $6.50 (so they don't overcrowd the existing Brooklyn-bound buses)

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I went to the meeting as well. Just like you pointed out, many people were unhappy with the proposal to remove express bus service from the WFC and I agree with them. Even though I don’t work there, I’ve ridden the X7 and X9 around that area numerous times and it gets more than enough people to warrant express bus service.

Some also didn’t agree with removing some stops which I somewhat understand, but I do feel that some are just too close.

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1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I went to the latest meeting. So since they released the proposal, they made some updates:

* The X15 will not bypass Richmondtown (not sure if it was originally an error, but anyway, it'll remain as-is on Staten Island)

* The X19 will end at Hylan & Craig in Tottenville instead of Hylan & Huguenot.

* The X22 & X23 will both end at Hylan & Craig (instead of the X22 ending at Hylan & Page and being the only express route in Tottenville)

* X17A/X17J go to Annadale instead of the X31 as originally proposed (the X17A basically remains as-is)

* X30 goes to Forest & Oxford (basically Forest & Victory) instead of Forest & Brighton.

* X14/42 end at Castleton & Jewett instead of the local bus terminal in Port Richmond (agree with that decision 100%)

* It looks like the X14 will have its first/last Staten Island stop be Clove & Howard (the X15 will cover the Narrows Road stops).

* They're going to do something about the lack of service to the WFC after all the complaints (including from yours truly, even though I don't work there).

* No updates on anything relating to off-peak service. They're not sure if they're going to just pick a few routes and run them off-peak as-is, or combine some routes, or have them all run to Midtown via Downtown.

* It looks like they're leaning towards having the "via NJ" routes run down 34th & 5th/Madison (instead of 42nd & 5th/Madison)/

They had some pamphlets that they gave out which will be posted to their website soon.

I told them that they need to consider the local network in conjunction with this: Even if they only make a few changes, they have to consider that some people may need the local bus to access another express bus (e.g. Take a limited-stop S53 to reach the X2 since the X14 will not serve Midtown). Additionally, they should consider more routes to the (R) train, since some people may decide that if they're going to transfer anyway, they might as well pay $2.75 instead of $6.50 (so they don't overcrowd the existing Brooklyn-bound buses)

So the route numbers are pretty much staying the same?

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12 hours ago, S78 via Hylan said:

I went to the meeting as well. Just like you pointed out, many people were unhappy with the proposal to remove express bus service from the WFC and I agree with them. Even though I don’t work there, I’ve ridden the X7 and X9 around that area numerous times and it gets more than enough people to warrant express bus service.

Some also didn’t agree with removing some stops which I somewhat understand, but I do feel that some are just too close.

 

12 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I went to the latest meeting. So since they released the proposal, they made some updates:

* The X15 will not bypass Richmondtown (not sure if it was originally an error, but anyway, it'll remain as-is on Staten Island)

* The X19 will end at Hylan & Craig in Tottenville instead of Hylan & Huguenot.

* The X22 & X23 will both end at Hylan & Craig (instead of the X22 ending at Hylan & Page and being the only express route in Tottenville)

* X17A/X17J go to Annadale instead of the X31 as originally proposed (the X17A basically remains as-is)

* X30 goes to Forest & Oxford (basically Forest & Victory) instead of Forest & Brighton.

* X14/42 end at Castleton & Jewett instead of the local bus terminal in Port Richmond (agree with that decision 100%)

* It looks like the X14 will have its first/last Staten Island stop be Clove & Howard (the X15 will cover the Narrows Road stops).

* They're going to do something about the lack of service to the WFC after all the complaints (including from yours truly, even though I don't work there).

* No updates on anything relating to off-peak service. They're not sure if they're going to just pick a few routes and run them off-peak as-is, or combine some routes, or have them all run to Midtown via Downtown.

* It looks like they're leaning towards having the "via NJ" routes run down 34th & 5th/Madison (instead of 42nd & 5th/Madison)/

They had some pamphlets that they gave out which will be posted to their website soon.

I told them that they need to consider the local network in conjunction with this: Even if they only make a few changes, they have to consider that some people may need the local bus to access another express bus (e.g. Take a limited-stop S53 to reach the X2 since the X14 will not serve Midtown). Additionally, they should consider more routes to the (R) train, since some people may decide that if they're going to transfer anyway, they might as well pay $2.75 instead of $6.50 (so they don't overcrowd the existing Brooklyn-bound buses)

I like the changes to the X14 in particular. Too many damn stops and the changes should speed up service.  I don't necessarily agree with all of these changes.  The focus should really be on MORE bus lanes, not fewer stops.  That makes the express buses less accessible.  What they could do is keep Midtown and Downtown service and make the bus more like a local subway making stops every 5  - 6 blocks.  That seems quite reasonable, but I don't think a lot of Staten Islanders will go for the whole only Downtown or only Midtown with nothing in between.  That just forces more people onto the subway unnecessarily, and the whole point is to minimize transfers.

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1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 

I like the changes to the X14 in particular. Too many damn stops and the changes should speed up service.  I don't necessarily agree with all of these changes.  The focus should really be on MORE bus lanes, not fewer stops.  That makes the express buses less accessible.  What they could do is keep Midtown and Downtown service and make the bus more like a local subway making stops every 5  - 6 blocks.  That seems quite reasonable, but I don't think a lot of Staten Islanders will go for the whole only Downtown or only Midtown with nothing in between.  That just forces more people onto the subway unnecessarily, and the whole point is to minimize transfers.

It was mostly mixed opinions as some agreed with the Downtown or Midtown only proposal while others said that they prefer keeping some routes the same, just with fewer stops.

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11 minutes ago, S78 via Hylan said:

It was mostly mixed opinions as some agreed with the Downtown or Midtown only proposal while others said that they prefer keeping some routes the same, just with fewer stops.

Well I think lines like the X10 should stay as is perhaps with fewer stops.  I still go back to Staten Island, and I like being able to get the bus anywhere from 57th down to Downtown depending on where I'm at without having to deal with the subway.

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7 hours ago, Vtrain said:

Was anything mention about the X23/24 routes finally being taken over by the MTA?

 

Was anything mention about a new Midtown express route along the X15 route on Staten Island?

I'll get back to the other responses, but in the meantime, this is what was given out at the meeting: https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/3f7fbbc5-e10e-4de5-9bc4-1104a0d4ba44

And no, the X15 is proposed to be a Downtown-only route, the same way it currently is.

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On 10/12/2017 at 10:54 PM, S78 via Hylan said:

I went to the meeting as well. Just like you pointed out, many people were unhappy with the proposal to remove express bus service from the WFC and I agree with them. Even though I don’t work there, I’ve ridden the X7 and X9 around that area numerous times and it gets more than enough people to warrant express bus service.

Some also didn’t agree with removing some stops which I somewhat understand, but I do feel that some are just too close.

I agree as well. There's enough ridership to maintain service over there (and also, even aside from the extra walking, there's also the extra traffic and travel time from looping down to Battery Place and then back up).

The consolidated stops on the Staten Island end aren't a big deal. It looks like they tried to eliminate every other stop, or every third stop. I didn't pay much attention to that (since I was more concerned with the general routes), but looking closely at the map, the X11 would bypass the CSI stop (my suspicion was that they would try to run the X11/12 off-peak in place of the X10, and have one of them stop in Concord. In any case, whether it's the X10, X11, or both, the Victory Blvd express route that runs by CSI should definitely stop there). 

On Forest Avenue, I noticed the X14/30 skip Forest & Manor, and Forest & Jewett. I guess for whoever's taking the local bus to connect with the express bus in that area, they want them to continue down to the X12/42 (unless it's a simple oversight like the issue with the X15 in Oakwood Heights).. Those are the only ones that really stand out, all the other ones seem pretty reasonable. 

On 10/12/2017 at 11:55 PM, Around the Horn said:

So the route numbers are pretty much staying the same?

They said they haven't come up with a numbering scheme, but for simplicity's sake, I just use the existing numbers.

13 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I like the changes to the X14 in particular. Too many damn stops and the changes should speed up service.  I don't necessarily agree with all of these changes.  The focus should really be on MORE bus lanes, not fewer stops.  That makes the express buses less accessible.  What they could do is keep Midtown and Downtown service and make the bus more like a local subway making stops every 5  - 6 blocks.  That seems quite reasonable, but I don't think a lot of Staten Islanders will go for the whole only Downtown or only Midtown with nothing in between.  That just forces more people onto the subway unnecessarily, and the whole point is to minimize transfers.

Just so you know, the X14 would be a Downtown-only route under the plan.

In any case, the existing express network basically makes the same stops as the local subway lines. For example, offhand, the bus stops at (approximately) 23rd, 14th, Waverly Place, and Houston Street, while the (R) train stops at 23rd, 14th, 8th, and Prince.

As for Downtown-only vs. Midtown-only, there's a lot of routes during rush hour that run that pattern, most notably the busiest express route on the island....the X17. But even on the South Shore (meaning, all the areas west of Eltingville, like Arden Heights, Rossville, Tottenville, etc), the rush hour routes are all Midtown-only except for the X19 which is Downtown-only.

The whole point of the express bus AFAIC is to get to Manhattan as quickly as possible. I'll gladly take the X17 to Manhattan and catch the subway to Upper Manhattan, over having to do the bus-ferry-subway deal and take an extra 30-45 minutes on a good day.

11 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Well I think lines like the X10 should stay as is perhaps with fewer stops.  I still go back to Staten Island, and I like being able to get the bus anywhere from 57th down to Downtown depending on where I'm at without having to deal with the subway.

The original plan had the X10 eliminated entirely during rush hour (well, the X10B basically), but with the protests about lack of West Street service (which I agree they should find some way of keeping WFC service at least), they're going to revisit it. They said they weren't sure about how they were going to handle off-peak service (either pick some routes that run Downtown-only and Midtown-only and just run them as-is, or run the Midtown-via-Downtown routes off-peak.

The issue is that with all the parades and detours in Midtown, that throws the schedule out the window (especially on Sundays). Though weekdays off-peak, you could realistically run them with no issues.

10 hours ago, limitednyc said:

so the 22 stays as is , the 17j gets straightened as a huguenot ave ave only?

The whole South Shore network will be restructured (the PDF I posted is more updated. My post from a few months back was based on the map they had up at the time, which is still up on that Civic Connect website). So this is basically how it'll go (and for simplicity's sake, I'll use some of the existing numbers)

* The X22 would run down Rossville, and then take over the X23 route through Princes Bay, before continuing down Hylan Blvd to Tottenville.

* The X22A would run straight up Bloomingdale Road and make a few more stops before entering the West Shore Expressway at the Bloomingdale Road entrance. It would bypass Arthur Kill Road (not sure if it would also bypass Travis).

* The X24 would run straight down Arden Avenue (so it would take over the Arden Avenue portion of the X17J).

* The X23 would run the length of Huguenot Avenue (taking over parts of the X17J & X24).

* The X17J would run to Annadale with the X17A (it gives that little pocket some Midtown service while also allowing the X21 to bypass Annadale Road)

* The X19 would run the length of Huguenot Avenue, then turn onto Hylan Blvd to go to Tottenville (so basically, Arden Heights gets Downtown service via Huguenot Avenue instead of Arden Avenue, and the western part of Hylan Blvd gains a Downtown route).

The South Shore part is probably the part they redesigned the best. Hopefully, the more direct routes and better coverage will encourage people to either walk (if the route happens to be nearby), or at least drive to a closer area, instead of people from all over the South Shore driving over to the "Checkpoint" by Arthur Kill Road. The only thing I wish is that they had some more Downtown service (maybe a route for Arden and a route for Bloomingdale, and riders on Rossville/Seguine can just make their way over to either Bloomingdale or Huguenot for Downtown service). 

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Thanks for that PDF, b/c I completely forgot what this study entailed..... In any event, I wish they would have simply broken down what changes would be made with each route.....

I've always said that the south shore express bus network (for lack of a better term right now) is utter shit.... Much of that has to do w/ the fact that the x23/24 exists "separately" from the rest of the MTA network (which explains the meandering).... I see what the whole plan's trying to accomplish overall, but I don't particularly care for eliminating stops to go about straightening the network down there or whatever.... That said, there is no way in hell I would have buses running along Hylan to Tottenville from Seguine & from Huguenot (respectively).... That to me is straight up wasteful..... There are some things I agree with (from what I'm seeing on this map) though...

I'm running late, so I'ma have to get back to this later.... It's going to be a whale of a post.... I've been rather silent about SI express service....

I'm in a mood.

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35 minutes ago, Vtrain said:

Will the X23/24 finally be taken over by the MTA, the MTA has 50 new express bus coaches proposed to replace the 30 4300 series & 19 2200 series buses, they should just keep these buses & use these 50 new express bus coaches for the X23/24 takeover & the new Huguenot Av to Midtown service as well.

The 4300 series is already up there in age. By the time new buses are ready they may be near their time to retire. You have to realize that SI express bus routes eat up mileage.

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