Jump to content

SI Bus Study sort of up on MTA website


Union Tpke

Recommended Posts

The branches should run where they're needed....

Yes, including throughout Staten Island too.... There are so many physical/literal buses carrying air along Richmond av, it isn't even funny.... Buses should be terminating in points throughout the island... Like an x30 (clove/victory via silver lake), an x22 (tottenville), x11 (middle of nothing in travis), x12/42 (Mariners harbor).... Not all these routes/variants ending at either ETC (for YUK), right at CAS (depot), or New Dorp (as many of them anyway).... Reason they even have buses ending at New Dorp, is, as to not somehow overwhelm ETC....

 

I don't even want to get started with people on the North Shore that are making their way to Hylan blvd. for better service... Ridiculous... Shouldn't be happening in any capacity, let alone in the numbers that they are....

 

They would save so much money if they could divide up the X1's ridership among all of the branches effectively.

Hard to do when the x1 has been marketed as "the" bus route along Hylan....

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 153
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Yes, including throughout Staten Island too.... There are so many physical/literal buses carrying air along Richmond av, it isn't even funny.... Buses should be terminating in points throughout the island... Like an x30 (clove/victory via silver lake), an x22 (tottenville), x11 (middle of nothing in travis), x12/42 (Mariners harbor).... Not all these routes/variants ending at either ETC (for YUK), right at CAS (depot), or New Dorp (as many of them anyway).... Reason they even have buses ending at New Dorp, is, as to not somehow overwhelm ETC....

 

I don't even want to get started with people on the North Shore that are making their way to Hylan blvd. for better service... Ridiculous... Shouldn't be happening in any capacity, let alone in the numbers that they are....

 

Hard to do when the x1 has been marketed as "the" bus route along Hylan....

 

I don't think it's an issue of overwhelming the ETC. That parking lot looks like it can hold a decent amount of buses. The thing is that if the X2/3/9 started at the ETC, you'd have more people on those buses, and fewer people on the X5/4/7 respectively, so it evens out the ridership that way.

 

I'm curious where you'd send those buses to. In New Dorp, maybe one of them could go up the X15's route through Richmondtown (Wilder Avenue, Clarke Avenue, etc) and one could go to Bay Terrace or something. But for Port Richmond, I don't see any good alternate routings for either the X10 or X14. Maybe send one of them up to Walker & Morningstar (I suppose you could go all the way to Richmond Terrace but north of Walker starts getting more industrial and once you're in S40/90 territory an express bus can't even compete time-wise, let alone fare-wise). Probably the X14 since it's a peak-only route. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think it's an issue of overwhelming the ETC. That parking lot looks like it can hold a decent amount of buses. The thing is that if the X2/3/9 started at the ETC, you'd have more people on those buses, and fewer people on the X5/4/7 respectively, so it evens out the ridership that way.

 

I'm curious where you'd send those buses to. In New Dorp, maybe one of them could go up the X15's route through Richmondtown (Wilder Avenue, Clarke Avenue, etc) and one could go to Bay Terrace or something. But for Port Richmond, I don't see any good alternate routings for either the X10 or X14. Maybe send one of them up to Walker & Morningstar (I suppose you could go all the way to Richmond Terrace but north of Walker starts getting more industrial and once you're in S40/90 territory an express bus can't even compete time-wise, let alone fare-wise). Probably the X14 since it's a peak-only route. 

It's all speculation at this point based on that poorly detailed map but I don't see the MTA ever eliminating the New Dorp x2,x3,x9 terminals. New Dorp/Oakwood residents and elected officials will understandably raise hell. Too many people board on Hylan Blvd & Cannon Blvd. Commuters aren't going to drive south to a park-n-ride to board a bus going north. And if x2,x3,x9 service starts at the ETC then all the seats will be taken by the time the buses reach Keegans Lane despite what the MTA may think. And what about the local routes????? They were part of the Study too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's all speculation at this point based on that poorly detailed map but I don't see the MTA ever eliminating the New Dorp x2,x3,x9 terminals. New Dorp/Oakwood residents and elected officials will understandably raise hell. Too many people board on Hylan Blvd & Cannon Blvd. Commuters aren't going to drive south to a park-n-ride to board a bus going north. And if x2,x3,x9 service starts at the ETC then all the seats will be taken by the time the buses reach Keegans Lane despite what the MTA may think. And what about the local routes????? They were part of the Study too.

Yeah, unlike the North Shore, the Mid Island and South Shore have political clout...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, unlike the North Shore, the Mid Island and South Shore have political clout...

Actually the difference on SI is that the Reps and Dems work together for the good of the Island. And even though we vote Republican, Governor Cuomo is our friend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually the difference on SI is that the Reps and Dems work together for the good of the Island. And even though we vote Republican, Governor Cuomo is our friend.

I'm just glad you have some competent people running the show on Staten Island (save Matthew Titone and Debbie Rose).  When I lived on the island, I too voted Republican (Michael Grimm) and regretted it.  He only looked out for the Mid Island and South Shore when it came to express bus service.  That dope is considering running for borough president...  <_<

 

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/grimm-considering-a-returning-to-politics

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm just glad you have some competent people running the show on Staten Island (save Matthew Titone and Debbie Rose).  When I lived on the island, I too voted Republican (Michael Grimm) and regretted it.  He only looked out for the Mid Island and South Shore when it came to express bus service.  That dope is considering running for borough president...  <_<

 

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/grimm-considering-a-returning-to-politics

I also voted for Grimm. He did his time but should forget about politics. Oddo will crush him in the republican primary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Dan1: I don't see how buses would be full by Keegans Lane (which is a point south of Tysens Lane) if the X2/3/9 were to start at the ETC unless there was a giant cut in service. In other words, what you're saying is that X1/4/5/7 buses are presently overcrowded before they even get to New Dorp (and if that were true, you'd have people in Midland/South Beach complaining about consistent flagging instead of just unreliable service).

 

@VG8: So Grimm's a dope, but Cappelli isn't? ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@VG8: So Grimm's a dope, but Cappelli isn't? ;)

You don't like Cappelli.  Grimm was convicted of doing illegal acts and was completely useless to his constituents as a result.  Cappelli was a volunteer on the (MTA) board.  Grimm was not.  You're comparing apples and oranges.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think it's an issue of overwhelming the ETC. That parking lot looks like it can hold a decent amount of buses. The thing is that if the X2/3/9 started at the ETC, you'd have more people on those buses, and fewer people on the X5/4/7 respectively, so it evens out the ridership that way.

 

I'm curious where you'd send those buses to. In New Dorp, maybe one of them could go up the X15's route through Richmondtown (Wilder Avenue, Clarke Avenue, etc) and one could go to Bay Terrace or something. But for Port Richmond, I don't see any good alternate routings for either the X10 or X14. Maybe send one of them up to Walker & Morningstar (I suppose you could go all the way to Richmond Terrace but north of Walker starts getting more industrial and once you're in S40/90 territory an express bus can't even compete time-wise, let alone fare-wise). Probably the X14 since it's a peak-only route. 

You can only have so many BPH picking ppl. up in the morning & dropping them off during the PM hrs... I can't believe ETC has the capacity to have the New Dorp routes terminate there as well (the addition of the x21, however many trips each way it has, doesn't help matters)..... The temporary housing of buses inside the "storage" portion of ETC wasn't what I was getting at with that statement....

 

The question I have for myself, is which route would remain ending at New Dorp (I would still have at least 1 route ending there).... I put it like that because most of my SI express ideas deal with the South Shore.... As for the x15, I would split that route w/o question.... Instead of only having a couple trips terminating at St. Patrick's place, I'd have all:

 

- AM trips begin at Amboy/Oakley, then run down Amboy to Clarke > Wilder > then continue along Richmond rd to do the rest of the route going towards Manhattan....

- PM trips would do the current x15 from Manhattan to Wilder/Richmond, and then hang a right along Richmond rd to end at Rockland....

 

Arthur Kill rd service would be replaced by one of the Hylan variants... From ETC, have it do the current x15 route to Guyon av, where it would then run down Guyon to Hylan..... Instead of having a slew of buses run up Richmond (av).... The x7/8 are the only routes that doesn't do that (aside from the New Dorp short turns obviously) & it's part of the problem I have w/ the Hylan routes.... Speaking of those two routes, I wouldn't have those ending at ETC either... I'd start em at Getz plaza; one stop after the fact.....

 

As for North Shore service, personally I would bring the x18 back... You're right, the Port Richmond point doesn't apply, since I'm still thinking of there being 4 routes (10, 13, 14, 16)  ending there instead of two.....

 

I have to come up w/ a plan for Hylan blvd.... I wouldn't focus on balancing out ridership on the variants the way the network is currently structured... I would have the x1 be "the" Richmond av & Hylan blvd route, have at least one equivalent unofficial short turn of the x1 end at New Dorp (whether it's given a different route # or still dubbed the "x1" is immaterial to me), and then work from there.... The focus would be to have other Hylan routes access areas north of Hylan other than the x1/4/5 running on Richmond av & the x7/8 running on Nelson (both sets of routes all ending at ETC)....That's my mindset, fam......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The X21 terminates at Hylan & Richmond (not sure if you were just referring to it passing through the ETC or if you were under the impression it terminated there).

 

Heh, I see what you're doing there. ;) The X15 would have a Downtown Loop and an Oakwood Heights/Richmondtown Loop lol. Personally, I'm not fond of loop routes, so I would have one of the New Dorp short-turns (probably the X3 since it also goes Downtown) run up Hylan-Tysens-Amboy and then take over the X15's route. The X15 itself I would just terminate at Rockland & Richmond coming straight from Richmond (Road, not Avenue lol, since Rockland intersects both)

 

I'm also not fond of routes ending just short of a major hub. If there's anything I would kick out of the ETC, it's the X17J (Just cut it back to the SI Mall, restructure the X23/24 to cover its portion in Arden Heights/Huguenot, and give the ETC ridership over to the X21). The X17A & X17C I would still leave there of course.

 

I do look forward to seeing your complete Hylan Blvd restructuring plan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The X21 terminates at Hylan & Richmond (not sure if you were just referring to it passing through the ETC or if you were under the impression it terminated there).

 

Heh, I see what you're doing there. ;) The X15 would have a Downtown Loop and an Oakwood Heights/Richmondtown Loop lol. Personally, I'm not fond of loop routes, so I would have one of the New Dorp short-turns (probably the X3 since it also goes Downtown) run up Hylan-Tysens-Amboy and then take over the X15's route. The X15 itself I would just terminate at Rockland & Richmond coming straight from Richmond (Road, not Avenue lol, since Rockland intersects both)

 

I'm also not fond of routes ending just short of a major hub. If there's anything I would kick out of the ETC, it's the X17J (Just cut it back to the SI Mall, restructure the X23/24 to cover its portion in Arden Heights/Huguenot, and give the ETC ridership over to the X21). The X17A & X17C I would still leave there of course.

 

I do look forward to seeing your complete Hylan Blvd restructuring plan.

I was referring to it passing through there (x21); the only time I rode it, I took it out of Hylan/Richmond..... It's 6-8 more buses (or however many trips it has each way; that I don't know) during the rush that adds to the myriad of exp. buses that run inside ETC..... Should've also mentioned the x17....

 

That was pure co-incidence with the "loop" theme.... I don't have much of a problem with loop routes though.

 

As far as ETC goes, the way I see it is that for the locals, yes, ETC is a major hub & I would agree with not having locals stop short of it.... I wouldn't have the S74 for example end at Getz Plaza (I have it ending at ETC btw)..... Express buses OTOH, I don't really see ETC as a major hub for them (like PABT is for all the NJT buses).... At the bare minimum, the x15 & the x31 does not need to end at ETC..... Generally speaking, I see having to serve ETC as waste of time for some routes & not much more than the MTA being frugal (as far as DH mileage goes)....

 

When it comes to express buses, ideally, I believe they should all end in residential areas or some apartment complex (like NST & the QM6/36).... If the street grid doesn't allow for it, then it is what it is with that.... What I'm not fond of though is excessive branching (express or local).... The hub & spoke model works, but the most I can tolerate of any level of branching, is what's done on Fulton st w/ the B25, 26, 38, and 52..... What's going on along Hylan & Union Tpke would irritate me if I was a planner.... I tend to favor The Bronx's express bus network myself.... For all that is said about the great borough of Brooklyn (saying that as sarcastically as I can), the express bus network here out of all the outerboroughs is the worst.....

 

Something else I wanted to reply to here after I saw your post earlier & left, but can't think of it right now....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lack of ridership between 23rd and Worth? Where is that even coming from?  How anyone could make such a statement is incredible.  Do you see the long lines for the X1 alone at 14th street and Broadway?  I don't support this at all because Staten Islanders have long commutes and they should not be forced onto the subway.  Some express bus riders take the express bus precisely because they want to keep that one seat ride.  Such a restructuring could mean serious changes to express bus service across the city.  Since it isn't clear when this way put out, I'm not too worried about it, but I think it stinks overall.  Goes back to the need to have tiered services in this city to attract riders out of their cars.  Those who don't want to the subway will use cars to get around. It's that simple.

I have to agree. There's a reason the X1 comes out of 3 depots..... It's the heaviest used NYCT express run hands down! Not only that, but rush hours are when the buses are packed! Many are SRO and that would be a huge mistake to cut that in any capacity. The bus comes out of 3 depots at rush. And to touch on 23rd street there are tons of express bus riders in that area as well..... I disagree with a few of those proposed changes and eliminations.

 

As mentioned above most all Express bus riders take the bus to avoid the subway. I know I do!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to agree. There's a reason the X1 comes out of 3 depots..... It's the heaviest used NYCT express run hands down! Not only that, but rush hours are when the buses are packed! Many are SRO and that would be a huge mistake to cut that in any capacity. The bus comes out of 3 depots at rush. And to touch on 23rd street there are tons of express bus riders in that area as well..... I disagree with a few of those proposed changes and eliminations.

 

As mentioned above most all Express bus riders take the bus to avoid the subway. I know I do!

The 'proposals' on that map aren't really official. Not enough detail. I can't see eliminating the New Dorp terminal. Express buses have been using it for almost 50 years now and serves too many people. As I live within walking distance it's added a bit to the value to our homes, being near a transportation hub of sorts. Also can't see eliminating Lexington Avenue or Water Street services. Both major employment centers. But we'll have to wait for the real report to come out. Some of the express stops are too close to each other on SI, like the Lindbergh Avenue and Tysens lane stops. Eliminate Lindbergh Avenue or the Cannon Blvd and Ebbitts Avenue stops. Eliminate Ebbitts Avenue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 'proposals' on that map aren't really official. Not enough detail. I can't see eliminating the New Dorp terminal. Express buses have been using it for almost 50 years now and serves too many people. As I live within walking distance it's added a bit to the value to our homes, being near a transportation hub of sorts. Also can't see eliminating Lexington Avenue or Water Street services. Both major employment centers. But we'll have to wait for the real report to come out. Some of the express stops are too close to each other on SI, like the Lindbergh Avenue and Tysens lane stops. Eliminate Lindbergh Avenue or the Cannon Blvd and Ebbitts Avenue stops. Eliminate Ebbitts Avenue.

Yeah, but the express bus stops within your neighborhood are close to make the service attractive and if there aren't many people using the stop, well the bus won't stop there.  Speaking of added value, I lived near the Staten Island Zoo in West Brighton. We had four express buses along Forest Avenue, and when they restructured service, we lost the X13 and the X16, and were left with just the X14 and X30.  I strongly believe that some people in my area either moved or started driving to other express bus lines.  It was definitely a factor when I left Staten Island.  My thinking was I was either going to move further south with access more express bus lines that ran longer, or be somewhere where driving to numerous lines was easy.  Ultimately I left because I wasn't thrilled about either arrangement.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking personally and unofficially as an bus operator:

 

Along Hylan, one of the heaviest stops for express pickups and drop offs are indeed Tysens and Ebbitts. Those stops, if I had to guess are unlikely to be discontinued. 

 

For the buses that terminate in the New Dorp area they are easier for buses to get to for a second AM trip (deadhead from Manhattan) and to deadhead for a second PM trip.

 

As for ETC, ETC is a logical transfer point (in that the state/city already had the land) and for the most part works well (I do have concerns but won't address them here for the time being). In the morning, especially 5a - 6a you will see people getting on all express buses that pull up to the stops, I find that interesting.

 

As for the x17J, from personal observation, it is heavily underutilized from Woodrow/Huguenot to ETC as the x21/x23/x24 provide a direct route. It is duplicated by the x19 where someone can easily transfer at Veteran's Road and Arthur Kill Road to the x21/x22/x22a/x23/x24 for Midtown.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking personally and unofficially as an bus operator:

 

Along Hylan, one of the heaviest stops for express pickups and drop offs are indeed Tysens and Ebbitts. Those stops, if I had to guess are unlikely to be discontinued. 

 

For the buses that terminate in the New Dorp area they are easier for buses to get to for a second AM trip (deadhead from Manhattan) and to deadhead for a second PM trip.

 

As for ETC, ETC is a logical transfer point (in that the state/city already had the land) and for the most part works well (I do have concerns but won't address them here for the time being). In the morning, especially 5a - 6a you will see people getting on all express buses that pull up to the stops, I find that interesting.

 

As for the x17J, from personal observation, it is heavily underutilized from Woodrow/Huguenot to ETC as the x21/x23/x24 provide a direct route. It is duplicated by the x19 where someone can easily transfer at Veteran's Road and Arthur Kill Road to the x21/x22/x22a/x23/x24 for Midtown.

Thanks for your input. Have you heard anything on the 'inside' regarding the SI Bus Study? Express routes? Local routes?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for ETC, ETC is a logical transfer point (in that the state/city already had the land) and for the most part works well (I do have concerns but won't address them here for the time being). In the morning, especially 5a - 6a you will see people getting on all express buses that pull up to the stops, I find that interesting.

For the locals, it's a logical xfer point..... For the express routes, it's a logical park & ride....

You have as many south shore riders driving to the Hylan routes for Lower Manhattan service, as there is too little service direct service provided with the 17a & the 19......

 

What I don't care for about ETC is the fact that there's too much space dedicated for (temporarily) housing buses - to the point where you have the locales of that x8/x15 pickup stop (which I've always thought wasn't all that safe) & that other stop around the corner from it (where the mall bound S79 & a couple other buses) stop at, being where they are....

 

As for the x17J, from personal observation, it is heavily underutilized from Woodrow/Huguenot to ETC as the x21/x23/x24 provide a direct route. It is duplicated by the x19 where someone can easily transfer at Veteran's Road and Arthur Kill Road to the x21/x22/x22a/x23/x24 for Midtown.

Yeah.... Makes too many stops/picks up too many ppl. b/w ETC & the SIE.... x17 is heavily utilized by mid-islanders.

Don't really blame South Shore residents for barely patronizing it....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ugh....quote function's not working again....anyway.....

 

@B35: The mall-bound S79 wasn't moved because of space issues, but rather to speed up service as part of the SBS project (buses used to go up Richmond, turn left on Arthur Kill, turn into the ETC, then go back to Wainwright to head to Richmond. Now they only have to pass through the Richmond/Arthur Kill intersection once instead of twice).

 

The other two routes using that stop are the S59/89 (I remember wondering why it took them a few months to reroute those buses when they could've just done it simultaneously with the S79). I checked Google Streetview and apparently they added the X21 to it as well.

 

But yeah, I do see what you're saying about the Arthur Kill Road express routes. I would agree with the idea of what it looks like you're trying to accomplish (taking some buses out and making some space for the remaining routes at the ETC), but the thing with the X7/8 is that they serve rather "unique" parts of Downtown (the X7 is the only route out of the ETC to go to the WFC, and the X8 is the only one to go to Water Street). Granted, if somebody could use those buses in both directions, all they'd have to do is park near Getz Plaza or another stop further up, but then the issue becomes what if somebody can use the X7/8 in one direction, but wants to take the X1 or X17 because they're returning after the PM rush?

 

The other issue is that since the road is narrow in that area, I'm not sure if buses would be able to take any type of layover in the morning: They'd basically have to come straight from the depot and start picking up passengers (On the X30, those buses waiting to start their trips at Victory & Clove do contribute somewhat to the traffic backups around there, since they block the right lane for a stretch).

 

@ENY: Running the X1 during rush hour is like running a local version of the (2) train during rush hour (now that it short-turns at 23rd Street, maybe the equivalent is an all-local (2) that short-turns at East 180th Street). Sure, it's heavily used, but who wants to sit through every single stop when there's quicker alternatives? Those resources would be better off maintaining quicker access between the different segments of its route in both SI & Manhattan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking personally and unofficially as an bus operator:

 

Along Hylan, one of the heaviest stops for express pickups and drop offs are indeed Tysens and Ebbitts. Those stops, if I had to guess are unlikely to be discontinued. 

 

For the buses that terminate in the New Dorp area they are easier for buses to get to for a second AM trip (deadhead from Manhattan) and to deadhead for a second PM trip.

 

As for ETC, ETC is a logical transfer point (in that the state/city already had the land) and for the most part works well (I do have concerns but won't address them here for the time being). In the morning, especially 5a - 6a you will see people getting on all express buses that pull up to the stops, I find that interesting.

 

As for the x17J, from personal observation, it is heavily underutilized from Woodrow/Huguenot to ETC as the x21/x23/x24 provide a direct route. It is duplicated by the x19 where someone can easily transfer at Veteran's Road and Arthur Kill Road to the x21/x22/x22a/x23/x24 for Midtown.

I definitely noticed this myself it seems very few ride the X17 and X17J until it passes ETC. Outside of the X1 the only other line I've seen been used for intermediate trips is the X17 between Tottenville and ETC. Seems as it's being utilized a as local route as well as an express route.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The mall-bound S79 wasn't moved because of space issues, but rather to speed up service as part of the SBS project (buses used to go up Richmond, turn left on Arthur Kill, turn into the ETC, then go back to Wainwright to head to Richmond. Now they only have to pass through the Richmond/Arthur Kill intersection once instead of twice).

 

The other two routes using that stop are the S59/89 (I remember wondering why it took them a few months to reroute those buses when they could've just done it simultaneously with the S79). I checked Google Streetview and apparently they added the X21 to it as well.

 

But yeah, I do see what you're saying about the Arthur Kill Road express routes. I would agree with the idea of what it looks like you're trying to accomplish (taking some buses out and making some space for the remaining routes at the ETC), but the thing with the X7/8 is that they serve rather "unique" parts of Downtown (the X7 is the only route out of the ETC to go to the WFC, and the X8 is the only one to go to Water Street). Granted, if somebody could use those buses in both directions, all they'd have to do is park near Getz Plaza or another stop further up, but then the issue becomes what if somebody can use the X7/8 in one direction, but wants to take the X1 or X17 because they're returning after the PM rush?

 

The other issue is that since the road is narrow in that area, I'm not sure if buses would be able to take any type of layover in the morning: They'd basically have to come straight from the depot and start picking up passengers (On the X30, those buses waiting to start their trips at Victory & Clove do contribute somewhat to the traffic backups around there, since they block the right lane for a stretch).

I mentioned the mall bound S79 b/c it was the first route that came to mind that stops at that stop in question; wasn't saying that the SBS mall bound S79 was moved b/c of space issues...

 

As for the rest of the post, I'll put it like this.... ETC could undergo a massive redesign where differing routes have differing lanes or whatever, and I would still have routes like the x7,8,15, and the 31 not serve it.... While it would help with space, my primary reasoning for removing those routes would be due to usage issues (especially with the x31)....

 

What you're mentioning (about what could be done for such a truncated) x7/8 is exactly what's done over there on the West shore expwy exit 4 northbound for the x19, 21, 23, 24..... That's not backed up traffic you see on that exit ramp there!! IDK how they get away w/ it, but apparently it's allowed.....

 

Lastly, coming straight from the depot to start their trips at Getz Plaza (x7/8), Amboy/Oakley (split x15), and Marsh/Richmond Hill (x31) is exactly what I think should happen, instead of them all starting at ETC.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps the X31 from was more useful when the X17J wasn't as frequent, and when services such as the X21, X23, and X24 didn't exist. However, I do agree that the X31 does not need to run down to ETC.

You may have nailed it there.... With the influx/increased popularity of the 17J, it likely rendered the x31 practically useless @ ETC itself... I have been on buses that still had 1/2 the bus full after Merry Mount/Travis (saying to myself, so I won't be the sole soul riding it to the end) - only to have practically everyone left get off at Ring/Marsh

 

At this rate, I'd let New Springville & Willowbrook have the x31 to themselves....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mentioned the mall bound S79 b/c it was the first route that came to mind that stops at that stop in question; wasn't saying that the SBS mall bound S79 was moved b/c of space issues...

 

As for the rest of the post, I'll put it like this.... ETC could undergo a massive redesign where differing routes have differing lanes or whatever, and I would still have routes like the x7,8,15, and the 31 not serve it.... While it would help with space, my primary reasoning for removing those routes would be due to usage issues (especially with the x31)....

 

What you're mentioning (about what could be done for such a truncated) x7/8 is exactly what's done over there on the West shore expwy exit 4 northbound for the x19, 21, 23, 24..... That's not backed up traffic you see on that exit ramp there!! IDK how they get away w/ it, but apparently it's allowed.....

 

Lastly, coming straight from the depot to start their trips at Getz Plaza (x7/8), Amboy/Oakley (split x15), and Marsh/Richmond Hill (x31) is exactly what I think should happen, instead of them all starting at ETC.....

 

I agree with you 100% about the X31 I'll say that much.

 

Come to think about it, I've always thought there should be a local bus covering the area east of Marsh Avenue (probably an S55/56 extension to CSI), but at the same time, how about if the X31 also swung by there quickly en route to the Yukon Depot? Just take Richmond Hill to Forest Hill and make a couple of stops along the way. I always refer to that part of New Springville (along Marsh Avenue) as "the area behind the mall", but in reality, you have an additional area behind that that's isolated due to the street grid. So you can give the entirety of Marsh Avenue ridership to the X17, and leave the X31 focusing (pretty much entirely) on residential areas.

 

That would be in addition to any local service running along Richmond Hill.

 

Perhaps the X31 from was more useful when the X17J wasn't as frequent, and when services such as the X21, X23, and X24 didn't exist. However, I do agree that the X31 does not need to run down to ETC.

 

Yeah, I remember looking at some old maps and seeing the X17J having a few trips a day (on the level of the present-day X21 & X42). I think around 2002 or so was when they really started beefing it up (it might've been around the time they added Saturday service to the X17C as well)

 

I definitely noticed this myself it seems very few ride the X17 and X17J until it passes ETC. Outside of the X1 the only other line I've seen been used for intermediate trips is the X17 between Tottenville and ETC. Seems as it's being utilized a as local route as well as an express route.  

 

Well that makes sense because of how crappy the local service is down there. As much as the S55/56 meander around the South Shore, there's still areas uncovered by them, and then you throw in the 30 minute headways (and the fact that they end around 7PM) and I could see why people would resort to using the X17. Not sure why you'd be seeing too many people use the X1 as a local bus: The S79 is generally quick and frequent. The X10 on the other hand, I've personally used that as a local bus many times. The local bus coverage isn't as bad as the South Shore, but you save a lot of time transferring (e.g. S62-S53/93, etc)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.