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Future ENY OP

Derailment Near 125 Street (8th Avenue); Minor Injuries Reported

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Also, there's a rail condition on the (E) and (M) which is further limiting and delaying service on 6th Avenue and 8th Avenue.

Where is this one. Midtown or Downtown ????

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I agree we should wait until we know more before we start laying blame on what caused the derailment. However, I still consider the R46s a death trap for two reasons. 1) the locked end doors 2) the lack of intercom between the car and the train crew.

 

If the train crew isn't able to reach the cars in an emergency, the passengers would be trapped with no way out and no way to talk to anyone. I find it shocking that the MTA has never bothered to retrofit the pre-NTT cars with critical safety equipment like an intercom.

 

Intercoms are old technology and are not rocket science so I won't accept technical excuses why they can't be installed. It's likely that the MTA made a business decision not to have intercoms.

QFT. Being stuck in one during a track fire at 207th St made me avoid those cars whenever possible. Same with R68/A - locked doors are the biggest safety risk whenever there's an emergency.

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Before we condemn the 46s as death traps, shall we consider the events that actually transpired today? There are a lot of assumptions coming out with very little actual information to back up. What we do know is that an (A) train derailed this morning, specifically the first car. The fact that it involved a 46 consist may actually be irrelevant as derailments are usually caused by defects in the tracks, not the train cars. That means it could've been the same circumstances had the train been a (B) or (D) train (68s) or a (C) train running on the express tracks (160s). Rather than jump to conclusions and declare the 46s unfit for service, perhaps we should wait for the official report concerning the incident.

∆ THIS!!!

I was just about to go ham on some of these comments till once again, Lance brings some sense to the issue. Look, I know there's a lot of "46 haters" here. This isnt the incident to go 46 bashing now. It could've been a New Tech just as easy. A train malfunctions regardless of age. Its mechanical and anything mechanical fails. In this case, it could be a broken rail, debris on the tracks, or a combination. The only thing on the actual train I see being a factor would be a flat wheel. But let's find out what the investigation finds...

 

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

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Whatever cuased that BIE..It cudnt have happened at a worse spot..The southbound tracks dip down just north of those switches giving southbound trains good acceleration comin into 125..All of em come in doin at least 25-30 mph..Now They will put speed timers now slowing the lines down even further smh..glad no one was killed tho

 

 

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Either due to budget, or intentionally wanting new cars and more CBTC, I suspect routine inspections or schedule parts replacement stopped on the R46 fleet. Compare LIRR M3s vs MNRR M3s. Or why the LIRR removed the sinks in M3 bathrooms a few years ago without a peep. When the R46 MTBF falls to the bottom, magically the $ or timeline for R179s/R211s will accelerate. A manager will just argue "why maintain them when they will replaced in a few years? I'll get a bonus by saving $ in my dept". Wild guess, flanges or suspension contributed to the derailment. Atleast this time some passengers knew how to break out of a locked R46 https://twitter.com/MylesMill/status/879716270882643968/photo/1but didnt know about the switch. 

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First and foremost, hopefully everybody on that train can recover from their injuries and its not as serious.

Second, one incident in the past month can be blamed on the R46 which is the breakdown at 77th street. Coincidence or not, the incidents all happened with R46's. Supposedly, the MTA said something triggered the emergency brake that caused the train to derail and cause a whole slew of other problems. Can that not also be blamed on the R46's?

 

Edit: the story seems unclear at this point, so I will wait for more details instead.

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Edited by danielhg121

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I agree that blaming the R46s doesn't appear appropriate here, however I still think that they are deathtraps waiting to happen. The fact that there is no means of emergency egress is pretty disturbing. What if the train crew is incapacitated during an incident and passengers are trapped? I think the R46s have to go before something catastrophic happens.

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I agree that blaming the R46s doesn't appear appropriate here, however I still think that they are deathtraps waiting to happen. The fact that there is no means of emergency egress is pretty disturbing. What if the train crew is incapacitated during an incident and passengers are trapped? I think the R46s have to go before something catastrophic happens.

There are some that only think about running the fleet into the ground because its their favorite set of cars.  To hell with passenger safety...  <_<

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Locked end doors and no intercom. Passengers in R46s basically have to handle everything by themselves before the crew arrives... :wacko:

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I wouldn't soley blame the R46 but more so our infrastructure. The real concern is, can the MTA keep up frequent trains running as wear/tear will be much more prevalent. Side note; the R46's have been in many incidents this year and lets not forget the derailment of the (F) a few years ago on Queens Boulevard. Those cars sway too aggressively, but also the emergency brake being activated is definitely a concern raised in this (A) train derailment. I also have a HUGE problem with the end cab doors being locked on those cars.

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Just got off the (1) train. It was so full to the brim with not only its own riders, but also all those (A)(C)(B)(D) riders as well.

 

Anyway, I hope all the injured people are okay and are recovering. I honestly didn't expect something like this to happen. I'm positive that they are going to slow the southbound (A) and (D) expresses even more so on the approach to 125th downtown with today's derailment being the main reason...

Edited by Jemorie

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I agree we should wait until we know more before we start laying blame on what caused the derailment.  However, I still consider the R46s a death trap for two reasons. 1) the locked end doors 2) the lack of intercom between the car and the train crew.  

 

If the train crew isn't able to reach the cars in an emergency, the passengers would be trapped with no way out and no way to talk to anyone.  I find it shocking that the MTA has never bothered to retrofit the pre-NTT cars with critical safety equipment like an intercom.  

 

Intercoms are old technology and are not rocket science so I won't accept technical excuses why they can't be installed.  It's likely that the MTA made a business decision not to have intercoms.

Totally agree. I understand the 75 foot situation and the large gaps between cars on sharp curves, but seriously, in this day and age, customers should feel safe, not trapped. It's not even like sharp curves and large gaps between cars are anything new; take the (J)(Z) as it turns between Cypress and Crescent, and various stations along the IRT where the platform is 5+ inches from the train. If there aren't emergency intercoms, at least have the doors always unlocked. The recent (F) train issue is a perfect example of why the doors shouldn't remain locked.

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These idiots are still going on "The R46"  "The R46" "The R46" "The R46" .....its a train. Shouldn't matter if its a retried fleet, or the newest fleet its a train everything breaks down or wears down. Keep blaming "The R46" but some of you idiots don't know that almost 10 years ago a (N) derailed and guess what it was an R-160 so screw the safety of the passengers and crew lets care about the fact that aging subway cars need to go. May as well retire the R-160's because like I said 10 years ago one derailed on the (N) thats the attitude you idiots have no sympathy for safety but the R-type class.

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The exact cause of the derailment has yet to be determined. So we can't really say that the R46 hasn't made a contribution to this incident. Maybe it had something to do with the structure of the subway car.

Edited by B46 via Utica

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Wasn't there a stabbing incident years ago where passengers were trapped in the cars because they were locked? Forget about the car type, we need to demand that ALL car doors be unlocked for the sake of passengers. As others said, if the crew is injured or can't reach the passengers, how in the hell are they supposed to get out???

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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These idiots are still going on "The R46"  "The R46" "The R46" "The R46" .....its a train. Shouldn't matter if its a retried fleet, or the newest fleet its a train everything breaks down or wears down. Keep blaming "The R46" but some of you idiots don't know that almost 10 years ago a (N) derailed and guess what it was an R-160 so screw the safety of the passengers and crew lets care about the fact that aging subway cars need to go. May as well retire the R-160's because like I said 10 years ago one derailed on the (N) thats the attitude you idiots have no sympathy for safety but the R-type class.

 

 

You could still move between cars and reach out for the crew if you are in broken down/derailed IRT cars/60-foot B-div cars. But if you are in R46/R68 you are out of luck.

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Wasn't there a stabbing incident years ago where passengers were trapped in the cars because they were locked? Forget about the car type, we need to demand that ALL car doors be unlocked for the sake of passengers. As others said, if the crew is injured or can't reach the passengers, how in the hell are they supposed to get out???

 

There is a reason why the doors are locked:

Eric B posted this on pintrest:

2ab2c226caaa39a61606b8cd160a2ebe.jpg

 

"

bdmnqr2_1414982756_75.jpg
 

If anyone ever wonders why the doors have always been locked on the BMT/IND subway cars with orange seats (which were all 75 feet long, where others on those lines are 60 ft). Mind you, this is SITTING on a yard track (26, JamaicaYD), and on a mild curve at that. Now imagine when it's MOVING, and over a sharper curve, or switch. It jerks violently and moves that far across and even more, sometimes!"

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There is a reason why the doors are locked:

Eric B posted this on pintrest:

2ab2c226caaa39a61606b8cd160a2ebe.jpg

 

"

bdmnqr2_1414982756_75.jpg
 

If anyone ever wonders why the doors have always been locked on the BMT/IND subway cars with orange seats (which were all 75 feet long, where others on those lines are 60 ft). Mind you, this is SITTING on a yard track (26, JamaicaYD), and on a mild curve at that. Now imagine when it's MOVING, and over a sharper curve, or switch. It jerks violently and moves that far across and even more, sometimes!"

 

I understand this, but having the doors locked leaving passengers trapped in emergencies is just as bad.  You also didn't answer my question about the stabbing.  It's a perfect example of what can happen when the doors are left locked.

 

I found the article:

 

Would You Be Comfortable Locked On A Train With A Murderer?
BY BEN MUESSIG IN NEWS ON NOV 23, 2009 10:18 PM
 
 
 

2009_11_subwaydoors-thumb-366x335-460690

Is there anything more horrifying than being locked on the subway with a knife-toting murderer? About two dozen commuters found themselves in that hellish situation early on Saturday, when they were locked on in the first car of an uptown D train with suspect Gerardo Sanchez, who according to witnesses had just stabbed a passenger to death in an argument over a seat.

 

While police celebrated the train crew for keeping the doors locked for several minutes until police arrived, the Daily News spoke with a handful of commuters who felt that the decision put innocent bystanders at risk. "[They] gambled with a lot of lives," said Richard Kaye, 45, of Morrisania.

 

"God forbid he had stabbed four more people." But at least one brave straphanger, Leo Genn, 52, of Chelsea, said the decision might prevent similar attacks.

 

"It shows people in the future that if you commit a crime on the train, you're going to get caught," he said. "My instinct is they did the right thing."

 

Did the MTA do the right thing by locking subway passengers in a car with a suspected murderer until police arrived? (Poll Closed)
Yes  46.11%  (545 votes) 
 
 
No  53.89%  (637 votes) 
 
 
 
Total Votes: 1,182
 
 

Meanwhile, the Post examines whether or not passengers who witnessed the attack made a mistake when they pulled the emergency cord, bringing the train to a screeching halt in the tunnel between the Rockefeller Center and Seventh Avenue stations. MTA Transit spokesman Charles Seaton told the paper that commuters should never pull the cord when the train is between stations. When contacted by Gothamist to further explain the agency's position, Seaton said:

 

"Use the emergency cord only to prevent an accident or injury. For example, if someone gets caught between closing subway car doors and is being dragged, pull the cord. But if your train is between stations and someone aboard becomes ill, do not pull the emergency cord. The train will stop, preventing medical professionals from reaching the sick passenger. A sick person is better off if the train goes to the nearest station where police and medical services will be waiting or can be quickly summoned, without interruption."

 
Contact the author of this article or email tips@gothamist.com with further questions, comments or tips.
 
 

Source: http://gothamist.com/2009/11/23/commuters_doubt_mta_to_lock_doors_o.php

 

If these trains are such a risk, they should be pulled ASAP from service when the new cars come in.  I think it's absurd to have these car doors locked like this with nowhere to escape.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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It seems to me that a good and simple compromise might be to place end door keys in little break-glass-in-case-of-emergency boxes. Or boxes that blare an alarm if you open them, like fire alarm covers, etc. 

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I thought one of the TA employees on here posted that all end doors can be unlocked via a switch by the T/O or C/R, after that last incident with the sweltering (F) car recently?

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If it was indeed a emergency brake malfunction, then every single R46 needs to be inspected. But this seems like something triggered the brakes to activate, maybe some trash, or an object tripped the brake arm, or some fool pulled on the brake in the car. We won't know till the investigation comes out.

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Any subway car series over 60 feet long has always had the doors between the cars locked for the reason that has been shown on this post.

For those who do not remember history, the Standards, the Triplexes and the Multis all had their doors locked between the cars for the same reason while in service.

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