news Derailment Near 125 Street (8th Avenue); Minor Injuries Reported

[Fresh Pond]

Totally agree. I understand the 75 foot situation and the large gaps between cars on sharp curves, but seriously, in this day and age, customers should feel safe, not trapped. It's not even like sharp curves and large gaps between cars are anything new; take the as it turns between Cypress and Crescent, and various stations along the IRT where the platform is 5+ inches from the train. If there aren't emergency intercoms, at least have the doors always unlocked. The recent train issue is a perfect example of why the doors shouldn't remain locked.

Curves like the ones seen on lower Broadway come to mind, especially between Cortlandt and City Hall.

I thought one of the TA employees on here posted that all end doors can be unlocked via a switch by the T/O or C/R, after that last incident with the sweltering car recently?

Every can does have a switch that can unlock every cab door in the train all at once.

[Deucey]

Curves like the ones seen on lower Broadway come to mind, especially between Cortlandt and City Hall.

Every can does have a switch that can unlock every cab door in the train all at once.

Shame the conductor chose to yell at us to get off at 207th St when a track fire occurred instead of flipping that switch.

 

And she was livid she had to come through 7 cars to use the key to unlock the doors.

 

Point being that just because there's a switch doesn't mean it works or that it's used.

[HenryB]

Every can does have a switch that can unlock every cab door in the train all at once.

 

 

What if the power is gone?

 

 

 

rbrome, on 27 Jun 2017, said:

 

It seems to me that a good and simple compromise might be to place end door keys in little break-glass-in-case-of-emergency boxes. Or boxes that blare an alarm if you open them, like fire alarm covers, etc. 

 

I think that's the best solution. 

Or not the keys because it would be difficult to be used in case of emergency. IMO it could be unlock doors, but handles covered with alarm boxes.

[Wallyhorse]

 

There is a reason why the doors are locked:

Eric B posted this on pintrest:

 

"

 

Eric Bolden saved to Travel and transit

If anyone ever wonders why the doors have always been locked on the BMT/IND subway cars with orange seats (which were all 75 feet long, where others on those lines are 60 ft). Mind you, this is SITTING on a yard track (26, JamaicaYD), and on a mild curve at that. Now imagine when it's MOVING, and over a sharper curve, or switch. It jerks violently and moves that far across and even more, sometimes!"

 

And as I remember, early on there were numerous injuries from those platforms, which is why they were locked in the first place.

[Trainmaster5]

What if the power is gone?

 

 

I think that's the best solution. 

Or not the keys because it would be difficult to be used in case of emergency. IMO it could be unlock doors, but handles covered with alarm boxes.

WRONG on all counts. I'm not singling you or anyone else out but take the time to re-read Interested Rider's post earlier in this thread. There's a reason for the locked doors on the longer equipment. Most are probably too young to remember that there were lawsuits because the end doors were unlocked and people lost their balance and went down. Can't have it both ways. Most are also too young that there were subway cars that had fire extinguishers installed where vandals/thieves could remove them. Do you actually think the is going to openly display keys for vandals or worse to access ? Remember that those R46 cars were going up and down the road at a time when track fires, derailments, and crime in general was more common than it is today. Funny thing is that the battery sellers and the other "salespeople" knew how to go from car to car on the R46s by using a bent card to do this. I saw it happen a few times and I happened to ask a coworker from that division and he said that many people knew about that trick and that was back in the '80s .What's with this sudden onslaught of fear and paranoia lately? Perhaps someone can enlighten this old guy. Carry on.

[Wallyhorse]

WRONG on all counts. I'm not singling you or anyone else out but take the time to re-read Interested Rider's post earlier in this thread. There's a reason for the locked doors on the longer equipment. Most are probably too young to remember that there were lawsuits because the end doors were unlocked and people lost their balance and went down. Can't have it both ways. Most are also too young that there were subway cars that had fire extinguishers installed where vandals/thieves could remove them. Do you actually think the is going to openly display keys for vandals or worse to access ? Remember that those R46 cars were going up and down the road at a time when track fires, derailments, and crime in general was more common than it is today. Funny thing is that the battery sellers and the other "salespeople" knew how to go from car to car on the R46s by using a bent card to do this. I saw it happen a few times and I happened to ask a coworker from that division and he said that many people knew about that trick and that was back in the '80s .What's with this sudden onslaught of fear and paranoia lately? Perhaps someone can enlighten this old guy. Carry on.

As said in my post directly above yours, there were injuries from poorly designed platforms (why they were not fixed for the R68 or not enough I don't know).   I remembered reading about that in the '80s when yes, the problems you describe were all there in their "full glory." 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

WRONG on all counts. I'm not singling you or anyone else out but take the time to re-read Interested Rider's post earlier in this thread. There's a reason for the locked doors on the longer equipment. Most are probably too young to remember that there were lawsuits because the end doors were unlocked and people lost their balance and went down. Can't have it both ways. Most are also too young that there were subway cars that had fire extinguishers installed where vandals/thieves could remove them. Do you actually think the is going to openly display keys for vandals or worse to access ? Remember that those R46 cars were going up and down the road at a time when track fires, derailments, and crime in general was more common than it is today. Funny thing is that the battery sellers and the other "salespeople" knew how to go from car to car on the R46s by using a bent card to do this. I saw it happen a few times and I happened to ask a coworker from that division and he said that many people knew about that trick and that was back in the '80s .What's with this sudden onslaught of fear and paranoia lately? Perhaps someone can enlighten this old guy. Carry on.

The system is falling apart. That's enough to freak people out. That and the acting as if all is well. Not a day goes by now without some crazy incident going on. It's ridiculous. I'm disgusted and I'm not even a daily rider (thank God). The people that now have to rely on such an abysmal service and wonder if they'll get to work on time... Those are the people that are the biggest concern.

[Eric B]

Ch.7 just reported that it was an unsecured rail left over from repair work from last night. (always worried about that, with all the rails stored ont he tracks).

[Around the Horn]

Ch.7 just reported that it was an unsecured rail left over from repair work from last night. (always worried about that, with all the rails stored ont he tracks).

Yikes.

[danielhg121]

Dang but how, certainly it couldn't have been the first train to use that track right after repair work was done. All the rumbling caused it to move out of place?

 

 

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[Far Rock Depot]

Ch.7 just reported that it was an unsecured rail left over from repair work from last night. (always worried about that, with all the rails stored ont he tracks).

Someone on FB about 3-4 hours ago mentioned that.

 

So wait.....wait just a second!!!!! Hold the phone!!! After all of that hate earlier.......

 

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[QM1to6Ave]

Someone's head is gonna roll over this one...all that damage and risk to life from a damn rail improperly stored. Or, at least I'm assuming it was improperly stored. If it was stored correctly, that's even more concerning.

 

Joe Lhota certainly is having a trial-by-fire welcome back to the MTA. 

[Interested Rider]

The New York Daily News online has an excellent  piece written by Zachary Arcidacomos (forgive me if I misspelled his name) who is a train operator on the letter lines and TWU Vice Chairman for workers on the letter lines. He debunks Joe Lhota's statement about the train being in emergency (as has Channel 7 has as well) based on his own.experience as a train operator for many years.

 

If you notice that when an accident occurs, the investigators do not speculate on the cause until all the evidence is examined. .This is what should have happened here as well. 

[HenryB]

The New York Daily News online has an excellent  piece written by Zachary Arcidacomos (forgive me if I misspelled his name) who is a train operator on the letter lines and TWU Vice Chairman for workers on the letter lines. He debunks Joe Lhota's statement about the train being in emergency (as has Channel 7 has as well) based on his own.experience as a train operator for many years.

 

If you notice that when an accident occurs, the investigators do not speculate on the cause until all the evidence is examined. .This is what should have happened here as well. 

 

 

I post the link and the article here in case others couldn't find it:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/mta-boss-wrong-train-derailment-article-1.3283095

 

 

MTA Chairman Joe Lhota said that maybe it wasn’t the track, maybe it wasn’t the equipment — maybe it was caused by the emergency brakes activating.

I’m a subway train operator in the B division, which is all the letter trains. I’ve worked every letter train, except the L.

Basically, there’s three main ways a train is going to go “brakes-in-emergency” — when you pull the cord, it basically dumps air out of the system and it causes the train to go brakes-in-emergency.

Another way that the train can go brakes-in-emergency is a tripping device on every train car. If you go past a red signal or you hit some other obstruction on the roadbed, that’s going to trip the device. I hit a basketball once.

A third way is the deadman’s switch. You can take your hand off the master controller or you swing it all the way to the emergency position.

Going brakes-in-emergency is kind of like putting on the maximum amount of brakes.

That is not something that derails a train. That would be a pretty bad safety device, if going brakes-in-emergency is going to derail the train. If the train derailed, that would be the cause of the train going into the braking emergency.

Obviously, if you were going too fast in the area, that could cause a derailment but not in this particular case. I don’t see any evidence of that.

A brakes-in-emergency wouldn’t cause a derailment at any speed. It’s not designed to derail a train whether at a high or low rate of speed.

Arcidiacono has been a train operator since June 2007 and is a Transport Workers Union Local 100 vice chairman for workers on the lettered subway lines.

[Fresh Pond]

And as I remember, early on there were numerous injuries from those platforms, which is why they were locked in the first place.

Anticlimbers.

 

They're called anticlimbers.

[Interested Rider]

Thank you Henry B. for posting the article for all who are part of this forum to be able to read it. Whenever I am posting on this forum (which is the only one where I post I might add), I try to include the source that will support my statement(s).  I am still in the dark ages, however, when it comes to the process of transferring the post to my writing on the forum.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just heard from two of the stuck passengers on that train. They decided to get out because there was NO communication from the train crew (what a surprise); their car was filling with smoke with people throwing up and so on who couldn't breathe. The notion of staying put sounds great, but when your life may be at risk, you have to do what's best to protect yourself first and foremost. People were banging in the other car and eventually broke through because of the smoke issue, not knowing where they were, and the possibility of them being in imminent danger.

 

We are taught this during fire drills too and I'm the fire deputy for my company. You may be told to stay put, but if you feel you need to leave, that's a choice you have to make. The other thing about this whole staying put thing is what happens if the train crew is injured? With those stupid cars locked, it just made things worse. Get those cars replaced and soon and any other locked cars. They're death traps.

[danielhg121]

Funny a lady from the train on the news said there was communication from the train crew. They were calmly lead out and those that walked the tunnels got the help of firemen and other MTA personnel to pull them out. She said thank god there was communication too. Maybe the connection was severed between train cars.

 

 

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[YankeesPwnMets]

The NY Times included this throwback picture from 1997...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Funny a lady from the train on the news said there was communication from the train crew. They were calmly lead out and those that walked the tunnels got the help of firemen and other MTA personnel to pull them out. She said thank god there was communication too. Maybe the connection was severed between train cars.

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That clearly varied between cars. These people were further back.

[Deucey]

So are running express on CPW now or nah?

[Deucey]

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/subway-supervisors-suspended-train-derailment-article-1.3284904

 

"Two track maintenance supervisors were yanked off duty early Wednesday after the Harlem derailment that injured 34 riders and crippled subway service citywide, sources told the Daily News.

 

The two supervisors were suspended at 1:30 a.m. based on an order from a superintendent, the sources said.

 

The men oversaw the replacement of a rail on Monday night near the site of the A train derailment near 125th Street. After the new rail was installed, the unused pieces were stored in the center of the track.

 

The MTA blamed the 9:45 a.m. Tuesday derailment on a poorly secured, loose rail.

 

The derailment sent two train cars crashing against the tunnel wall, peeled open a train car door and damaged track equipment.

 

Hundreds of people filled the subway tracks and tunnels as they evacuated from smoky cars. All 34 injuries were considered non-life-threatening, officials said."

 

 

============

 

Seems like a convenient explanation, but not fully credible.

 

Unused rail is stored all over the subway in between tracks without incident. If it was stored and moved due to trains moving over it, to me it says there's a larger issue with the stability of the trackbed and vibrations than where rail was stored. UNLESS they were stacked on top of each other instead of side by side.

[Lawrence St]

The NY Times included this throwback picture from 1997...

What ever happened to that car? Did it get repaired or was it scrapped on site?

[SmallParkShuttle]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that NYCT has a policy that all rail stored in the tracks need to be secured by spikes into the ties. If that is done properly with good ties, vibrations should not have loosened the rail to a point that it would move so far as to derail a train, especially if the rail was secured the night before.

 

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[SmallParkShuttle]

 

 

And also some of these on Twitter:

I know there's still much to be learned, but it looks to me like that frog on the right side of the pic took some serious damage as well as caused some...

 

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