Rockaway Beach Branch

[Coney Island Av]

Guys keep in mind there is a proposal using the abandoned trolley terminal at Essex St for a "Low Line." These hipsters should just throw support for that since there's no real use for the terminal. and if they don't support it? Renovate forest park instead. 

However there's just one problem for using the terminal lol   

[LGA Link N Train]

5 hours ago, D to 96 St said:

Guys keep in mind there is a proposal using the abandoned trolley terminal at Essex St for a "Low Line." These hipsters should just throw support for that since there's no real use for the terminal. and if they don't support it? Renovate forest park instead. 

However there's just one problem for using the terminal lol   

Renovating forest park is a good idea, as for the trolley terminal, I'd use it as some type of alternative to the train shutdown for the BQX since it currently serves no real purpose 

[RR503]

I'm sure I've brought this up before, but why all the hype over the RBB? Aside from the short segment north of Forest Park (which can be taken care of with LMB service), it serves areas that already have some sort of subway access. Using QBlocal capacity to build out over the LIE to, say, utopia parkway brings access to many more people and areas than the RBB ever would. So why is this the holy grail? 

[Wallyhorse]

Simple:

It brings more direct midtown service to Manhattan, making it easier on people who live in The Rockaways.

It allows for a line of Queens Boulevard to directly access The Rockaways. 

[RR503]

1 hour ago, Wallyhorse said:

Simple:

It brings more direct midtown service to Manhattan, making it easier on people who live in The Rockaways.

It allows for a line of Queens Boulevard to directly access The Rockaways. 

Exactly. What I’m saying is that you’re net benefitting fewer ppl by doing that than with LIE. Those rock people have train service. People in Eastern queens don’t. 

[BreeddekalbL]

3 hours ago, RR503 said:

Exactly. What I’m saying is that you’re net benefitting fewer ppl by doing that than with LIE. Those rock people have train service. People in Eastern queens don’t. 

It needs to become a subway to improve the access from the rockaways instead of forcing them to go via brooklyn, also to atop deblasio from repaying his developer oligarch overlords in making it a stupid park for queens  

[T to Dyre Avenue]

22 hours ago, RR503 said:

Exactly. What I’m saying is that you’re net benefitting fewer ppl by doing that than with LIE. Those rock people have train service. People in Eastern queens don’t. 

It’s true that you’d net benefit more people with an LIE branch off of the Queens Blvd Line. But the line would have to be built entirely from scratch, as would its tie-in to the QBL. And it would require widening the expressway right-of-way to make room for at least two tracks and make space for platforms at potential station locations. Also, like with a Rockaway Branch-Queens Blvd connection, it would be very beneficial to convert Woodhaven Blvd into an express station.

Speaking of Woodhaven Blvd, you would have to figure out how to get from under Queens Blvd to the expressway r-o-w. There isn’t a lot of space to do that because the LIE crosses over Queens Blvd  immediately east of the Woodhaven Blvd station. It seems like it would be easiest to make the connection between QB and the LIE via the local tracks and extend the  or  onto the LIE branch. But the northbound local track connection would have to swing under the four existing tracks, then ascend to the expressway level. At least with the RBB connection, there is already an existing provision for it and though you’d have to tunnel under 66th Ave or 65th Road, then under the LIRR Main Line to get over to the abandoned railroad branch, it seems like it would still be an easier connection. And though the r-o-w will require a considerable amount of rehabilitation to make it suitable for operations once again, that’s got to be much easier than widening a major expressway r-o-w to add tracks, together with relocating retaining walls and rebuilding overpasses in Northeast Queens to accommodate stations. Just adding car lanes to the LIE is no small task. Imagine how it would be add a subway r-o-w to the LIE.

To me, putting a subway service on the abandoned branch is providing an alternative transit option to a very busy  stretch of road from Broad Channel to Rego Park on Cross Bay and Woodhaven boulevards. A stretch of road that’s anything but a pleasant drive. Either you sit in heavy traffic or you deal with reckless drivers who are only too happy to speed up once the traffic breaks up.

19 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

It needs to become a subway to improve the access from the rockaways instead of forcing them to go via brooklyn, also to atop deblasio from repaying his developer oligarch overlords in making it a stupid park for queens  

Agreed that it should be subway. Connecting it back to the LIRR is a nonstarter because few people in the Rockaways, Howard Beach and Ozone Park will be willing to expensive LIRR fares and tolerate typical LIRR service frequencies of just 1-3 tph. Though I don’t think de Blasio is actively looking to convert the branch to a High Line type of park as a way of repaying his “developer overlords.” I think the Brooklyn-Queens streetcar is more likely to be a gift to them than preventing rail from ever returning to the RBB north of Liberty Avenue. 

[BreeddekalbL]

5 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

It’s true that you’d net benefit more people with an LIE branch off of the Queens Blvd Line. But the line would have to be built entirely from scratch, as would its tie-in to the QBL. And it would require widening the expressway right-of-way to make room for at least two tracks and make space for platforms at potential station locations. Also, like with a Rockaway Branch-Queens Blvd connection, it would be very beneficial to convert Woodhaven Blvd into an express station.

Speaking of Woodhaven Blvd, you would have to figure out how to get from under Queens Blvd to the expressway r-o-w. There isn’t a lot of space to do that because the LIE crosses over Queens Blvd  immediately east of the Woodhaven Blvd station. It seems like it would be easiest to make the connection between QB and the LIE via the local tracks and extend the  or  onto the LIE branch. But the northbound local track connection would have to swing under the four existing tracks, then ascend to the expressway level. At least with the RBB connection, there is already an existing provision for it and though you’d have to tunnel under 66th Ave or 65th Road, then under the LIRR Main Line to get over to the abandoned railroad branch, it seems like it would still be an easier connection. And though the r-o-w will require a considerable amount of rehabilitation to make it suitable for operations once again, that’s got to be much easier than widening a major expressway r-o-w to add tracks, together with relocating retaining walls and rebuilding overpasses in Northeast Queens to accommodate stations. Just adding car lanes to the LIE is no small task. Imagine how it would be add a subway r-o-w to the LIE.

To me, putting a subway service on the abandoned branch is providing an alternative transit option to a very busy  stretch of road from Broad Channel to Rego Park on Cross Bay and Woodhaven boulevards. A stretch of road that’s anything but a pleasant drive. Either you sit in heavy traffic or you deal with reckless drivers who are only too happy to speed up once the traffic breaks up.

Agreed that it should be subway. Connecting it back to the LIRR is a nonstarter because few people in the Rockaways, Howard Beach and Ozone Park will be willing to expensive LIRR fares and tolerate typical LIRR service frequencies of just 1-3 tph. Though I don’t think de Blasio is actively looking to convert the branch to a High Line type of park as a way of repaying his “developer overlords.” I think the Brooklyn-Queens streetcar is more likely to be a gift to them than preventing rail from ever returning to the RBB north of Liberty Avenue. 

But the thing is is the highline for queens is owned by one of his donors so follow the $ supposedly after the election it will be decided

[RR503]

1 hour ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

It’s true that you’d net benefit more people with an LIE branch off of the Queens Blvd Line. But the line would have to be built entirely from scratch, as would its tie-in to the QBL. And it would require widening the expressway right-of-way to make room for at least two tracks and make space for platforms at potential station locations. Also, like with a Rockaway Branch-Queens Blvd connection, it would be very beneficial to convert Woodhaven Blvd into an express station.

Speaking of Woodhaven Blvd, you would have to figure out how to get from under Queens Blvd to the expressway r-o-w. There isn’t a lot of space to do that because the LIE crosses over Queens Blvd  immediately east of the Woodhaven Blvd station. It seems like it would be easiest to make the connection between QB and the LIE via the local tracks and extend the  or  onto the LIE branch. But the northbound local track connection would have to swing under the four existing tracks, then ascend to the expressway level. At least with the RBB connection, there is already an existing provision for it and though you’d have to tunnel under 66th Ave or 65th Road, then under the LIRR Main Line to get over to the abandoned railroad branch, it seems like it would still be an easier connection. And though the r-o-w will require a considerable amount of rehabilitation to make it suitable for operations once again, that’s got to be much easier than widening a major expressway r-o-w to add tracks, together with relocating retaining walls and rebuilding overpasses in Northeast Queens to accommodate stations. Just adding car lanes to the LIE is no small task. Imagine how it would be add a subway r-o-w to the LIE.

To me, putting a subway service on the abandoned branch is providing an alternative transit option to a very busy  stretch of road from Broad Channel to Rego Park on Cross Bay and Woodhaven boulevards. A stretch of road that’s anything but a pleasant drive. Either you sit in heavy traffic or you deal with reckless drivers who are only too happy to speed up once the traffic breaks up.

Agreed that it should be subway. Connecting it back to the LIRR is a nonstarter because few people in the Rockaways, Howard Beach and Ozone Park will be willing to expensive LIRR fares and tolerate typical LIRR service frequencies of just 1-3 tph. Though I don’t think de Blasio is actively looking to convert the branch to a High Line type of park as a way of repaying his “developer overlords.” I think the Brooklyn-Queens streetcar is more likely to be a gift to them than preventing rail from ever returning to the RBB north of Liberty Avenue. 

Good points on engineering aspects. I was thinking that you’d use the express platform provisions at Woodhaven, create side platforms for LIE service, then tunnel under the service roads until the park (or thereabouts) where the line would ascend onto an AirTrain like structure above the expressway. Yes, community opposition to els is a thing, but given that there would be stations, and they already have an expwy there, it shouldn’t be that bad. 

Agreed that the RBB is a subway line in waiting though — parallels a busy corridor and is an existing rail ROW. Maybe the one that isn’t built can be tied into a bypass/Northern boulevard line..

[bobtehpanda]

On 10/31/2017 at 5:35 AM, RR503 said:

I'm sure I've brought this up before, but why all the hype over the RBB? Aside from the short segment north of Forest Park (which can be taken care of with LMB service), it serves areas that already have some sort of subway access. Using QBlocal capacity to build out over the LIE to, say, utopia parkway brings access to many more people and areas than the RBB ever would. So why is this the holy grail? 

Realistically speaking, if you were to serve that section of Queens, extending the QBL local via 73rd, and bringing the PW up to rapid transit standards, would be much more cost-effective ways of achieving the same goal. The problem with an LIE line is besides the engineering difficulties, it's 1. not at a great place to divert trains, and 2. none of the destinations in Queens over there actually front the LIE. Queens College and the shopping center on 188th technically lie alongside it, and Francis Lewis HS and QCC are nearby, but their main entrances and such face the cross streets, not the LIE itself. Most of the LIE is also fronted by narrow strips of housing, or cemeteries. A line on Jewel would be able to hit those areas much better, and has the advantage of probably being easier to construct, not diverting service from local stations, and much friendlier walkshed.

[BrooklynBus]

There is more RBB discussion here:

 

[BreeddekalbL]

liz crowley who supports light rail on the lower montauk into the rbb but supports the queensway looks like she will be upset by a democrat running on republican and reform line, but the big nemisis koslowitz won unopposed

[LGA Link N Train]

I'm going to work on a project called "The Woodhaven Plan" which will talk about the RBB. I don't have an official release date (not even a starting date) but stay tuned for that

[LGA Link N Train]

Can someone answer the following question. 

I have noticed that for quite some time, the Queensrail supporters are a 2 in 1 group. What I mean by that is one part of the group wants to see is as reactivated LIRR service while another group wants to see it converted for the subway system to use. Can someone please tell me why this is because I'm confused here

[Coney Island Av]

LGA Link N train: I think it's because they want ANY type of transit access, whether it's LIRR or subway. But buses are EXTREMELY INADEQUATE for the people despite SBS service on the Q52/53. 

Anyways, this is my proposal for RBB in the SHORT-TERM. A LONG-TERM proposal will be posted later. 

IMG_0432 by Jacob Robles, on Flickr

 

[RR503]

While I don’t think that there’ll be space/need for the  post RBB (everything else I agree with), that’s a damn impressive hand-drawn map. Great job!

Edited November 23, 2017 by RR503

[Deucey]

Just looking at @D to 96 St‘s map, I’m wondering why the Lefferts Bl spur wasn’t extended to Jamaica Center.

[RR503]

In real life it ends quite a bit south of Jamaica.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6909182,-73.82196,14.75z

[LGA Link N Train]

@D to 96 St that is a really impressive hand drawn map, Nice job. That would give me another option to go to school since I currently use the / , , and   to get there. in your map, i'd only need the and  to get there. Anyways on a side note, is there any news on the Rockaway Beach Branch?? I haven't heard anything in awhile from it. Last thing I heard was some Queensway stuff and nothing else. 

I REALLY hope that the Queensrail Wins this unnecessary battle which should've been resolved years ago

[bobtehpanda]

8 hours ago, Deucey said:

Just looking at @D to 96 St‘s map, I’m wondering why the Lefferts Bl spur wasn’t extended to Jamaica Center.

It is 40 minutes from Ozone Park to Chambers St (A). The makes it to WTC in 45 minutes. There's not much improvement.

[Italianstallion]

On 11/1/2017 at 12:13 PM, BreeddekalbL said:

But the thing is is the highline for queens is owned by one of his donors so follow the $ supposedly after the election it will be decided

Don't know what you mean by owned by a donor. The ROW is owned by the city.

[BreeddekalbL]

2 minutes ago, Italianstallion said:

Don't know what you mean by owned by a donor. The ROW is owned by the city.

Im saying the queensway is fronted by a deblasio donor

[Lawrence St]

Ok, we don't need to make every single dam abandoned rail line into a park that no one will use. The High Line is the first and LAST line to be converted because it's in actual location where you can actually see shit.

 

As for the line itself, I revisted it back in October, it is really falling apart. You got houses extending their backyards into there when they aren't suppose to,  you got a dam school bus parking lot taking up half of WOODHAVEN Junction, you got the ball park tearing up the only track remaining towards Rego Park, it really is a shame.

[NY1635]

Would the Rockaway Beach subway line via Queens Blvd and Midtown even be faster than the via Fulton Street and Lower Manhattan?

[R68OnBroadway]

11 hours ago, NY1635 said:

Would the Rockaway Beach subway line via Queens Blvd and Midtown even be faster than the via Fulton Street and Lower Manhattan?

Probably. The  is extremely slow and suffers from long headways in the Rockaways.