MTA task force fails to stop fare-beaters on buses

[Via Garibaldi 8]

MTA task force fails to stop fare-beaters on buses

The MTA said using Eagle Teams didn't significantly reduce fare evasion on buses.

(DANIEL BARRY/GETTY IMAGES)

BYDAN RIVOLI

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Monday, July 31, 2017, 11:51 PM

The MTA couldn’t beat the fare-beaters.

The team of retired cops who patrol for nonpayers on MTA buses, known as Eagle Teams, failed to stop freeloaders or down-on-their-luck riders who slip aboard without paying up.

Now, to save $6.7 million a year, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority is cutting 64 positions from the Eagle Teams assigned to regular, local bus routes. Instead, they’ll be reassigned to the MTA’s 12 Select Bus Service routes, where riders dip their MetroCards on street-side equipment for a paper receipt, instead of onboard.

“It has been determined that this effort, which relied on intermittent fare evasion enforcement, did not result in significant or lasting reductions in fare evasion,” MTA officials wrote in a financial document.

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/mta-task-force-fails-stop-fare-beaters-buses-article-1.3372943

[BreeddekalbL]

That is where they should have been all along

[bobtehpanda]

They existed on regular bus routes?

[Cait Sith]

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

They existed on regular bus routes?

I've seen them on Staten Island(some in plain clothes as well).....but not elsewhere.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

They existed on regular bus routes?

As Cait said, only on Staten Island, and that was mainly because of a few elected officials and a former board member expressing outrage and the need to address the problem, but when that the news outlets stopped focusing on it, it was basically business as usual.  I think this is sending the wrong message quite frankly.  There really isn't rampant fare beating on the SBS lines, with the exception of the Bronx lines like the Bx6 and Bx41.  From what I've seen with the Bx12, most people seem to get their tickets.  From what I've seen with the Q44, I would say the same thing.  With the Manhattan routes, there are only a few that don't and that's usually because they have no clue of what they're supposed to do because they're too lazy and too dumb to read.  I had a guy trying to get a ticket for the M79. Older guy.... I refused to assist him.  I get tired of being everyone's personal information booth because of their laziness and then they don't even address you properly. When I want information, I approach people as "Mam" or "Sir" and then ask my question like someone who is raised with manners does .  Furthermore, I wanted him to take the time to read like I do when I use the service. So after looking at the machines for a few seconds, he gave up and got a taxi.  

Edited September 28, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Italianstallion]

On September 28, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

As Cait said, only on Staten Island, and that was mainly because of a few elected officials and a former board member expressing outrage and the need to address the problem, but when that the news outlets stopped focusing on it, it was basically business as usual.  I think this is sending the wrong message quite frankly.  There really isn't rampant fare beating on the SBS lines, with the exception of the Bronx lines like the Bx6 and Bx41.  From what I've seen with the Bx12, most people seem to get their tickets.  From what I've seen with the Q44, I would say the same thing.  With the Manhattan routes, there are only a few that don't and that's usually because they have no clue of what they're supposed to do because they're too lazy and too dumb to read.  I had a guy trying to get a ticket for the M79. Older guy.... I refused to assist him.  I get tired of being everyone's personal information booth because of their laziness and then they don't even address you properly. When I want information, I approach people as "Mam" or "Sir" and then ask my question like someone who is raised with manners does .  Furthermore, I wanted him to take the time to read like I do when I use the service. So after looking at the machines for a few seconds, he gave up and got a taxi.  

You seem like a nice fellow.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 minutes ago, Italianstallion said:

You seem like a nice fellow.

Not any nicer than you... 

[WestFarms36]

On 9/28/2017 at 2:04 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

As Cait said, only on Staten Island, and that was mainly because of a few elected officials and a former board member expressing outrage and the need to address the problem, but when that the news outlets stopped focusing on it, it was basically business as usual.  I think this is sending the wrong message quite frankly.  There really isn't rampant fare beating on the SBS lines, with the exception of the Bronx lines like the Bx6 and Bx41.  From what I've seen with the Bx12, most people seem to get their tickets.  From what I've seen with the Q44, I would say the same thing.  With the Manhattan routes, there are only a few that don't and that's usually because they have no clue of what they're supposed to do because they're too lazy and too dumb to read.  I had a guy trying to get a ticket for the M79. Older guy.... I refused to assist him.  I get tired of being everyone's personal information booth because of their laziness and then they don't even address you properly. When I want information, I approach people as "Mam" or "Sir" and then ask my question like someone who is raised with manners does .  Furthermore, I wanted him to take the time to read like I do when I use the service. So after looking at the machines for a few seconds, he gave up and got a taxi.  

It's very sad how people aren't able to take 1 SECOND OF THEIR PRECIOUS LIVES to actually STOP AND READ a simple sign that says "Pay Before Boarding the Bus." and then wonder why the hell did they get a $100 dollar fine. Like I sometimes feel like going "You Brainless @$$hole the instructions to pay are in your face!" And then they even simply ignore the sign on the Farebox that say "No Fares Collected Inside the Bus." And still dump the MetroCard in the Farebox, I have no sympathy for people who know how to read and later act that they didn't know, and honestly their balloni is what's screwing this country up. They think that by just victimizing themselves and running over to the media is going to stop everything they consider bad. Same people who ask for a free ride while we have to pay to take a ride and then deal with their BS. Taxpayer dollars going into transit filling up more than half of the necessary gap to pay for those freeby @$$holes. We need more enforcement involved with this issue, and people need to stop being a potato and damn take a second to get your face off the screen and read!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 hours ago, WestFarms36 said:

It's very sad how people aren't able to take 1 SECOND OF THEIR PRECIOUS LIVES to actually STOP AND READ a simple sign that says "Pay Before Boarding the Bus." and then wonder why the hell did they get a $100 dollar fine. Like I sometimes feel like going "You Brainless @$$hole the instructions to pay are in your face!" And then they even simply ignore the sign on the Farebox that say "No Fares Collected Inside the Bus." And still dump the MetroCard in the Farebox, I have no sympathy for people who know how to read and later act that they didn't know, and honestly their balloni is what's screwing this country up. They think that by just victimizing themselves and running over to the media is going to stop everything they consider bad. Same people who ask for a free ride while we have to pay to take a ride and then deal with their BS. Taxpayer dollars going into transit filling up more than half of the necessary gap to pay for those freeby @$$holes. We need more enforcement involved with this issue, and people need to stop being a potato and damn take a second to get your face off the screen and read!

I so agree. The laziness is mind boggling.

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

On 9/28/2017 at 12:26 PM, bobtehpanda said:

They existed on regular bus routes?

I agree with your inference. There are 278 bus routes but barely a baker's dozen SBS so this is yet more MTA waste.

20K people farebeat every year. Only 788 get arrested.

 

Paying is tough. When I fell short this summer, I walked. It was tiring, but exercise so I wasn't as bummed. I walked 5 miles and I didn't even know it once. Took 2 hours but I made it five minutes early and I don't run.

[Q43LTD]

I thought Eagle Teams were on SBS routes. I didn't know they were on local buses, too. Where they only on SI or in the Bronx as well where fare beating is more prevalent?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

21 minutes ago, Q43LTD said:

I thought Eagle Teams were on SBS routes. I didn't know they were on local buses, too. Where they only on SI or in the Bronx as well where fare beating is more prevalent?

Your question was answered above in earlier posts.

 

[Q43LTD]

Just now, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Your question was answered above in earlier posts.

 

Ok, then. I was just putting in my input

[BrooklynBus]

Any wonder why "ridership" is declining? I just witnessed about 50 Kingsboro students going in through the back door not paying their fare on the B49 at the college today at 2:00. There were about a hundred waiting for the bus. Half entered through the front. It did save the driver several minutes though. (Very few of those using the B49 get off at the subway which is one reason I proposed sending some buses down the old route at school dismissal. The MTA never responded.) If half transferred to other buses, the MTA still lived lost some money from those without unlimited passes who did not transfer. 

But more like more important than than the monetary issue is that these passengers are not considered when service is scheduled. I asked the dispatcher if he saw those entering through the back. He told me it happens all the time. He said something about the students forcing the door open while the interlock was being engaged. Didn't understand what that meant. 

I think for many, the fare wasn't the issue. I think they just wanted the bus to leave quicker. They were waiting for some time.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

50 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Any wonder why "ridership" is declining? I just witnessed about 50 Kingsboro students going in through the back door not paying their fare on the B49 at the college today at 2:00. There were about a hundred waiting for the bus. Half entered through the front. It did save the driver several minutes though. (Very few of those using the B49 get off at the subway which is one reason I proposed sending some buses down the old route at school dismissal. The MTA never responded.) If half transferred to other buses, the MTA still lived lost some money from those without unlimited passes who did not transfer. 

But more like more important than than the monetary issue is that these passengers are not considered when service is scheduled. I asked the dispatcher if he saw those entering through the back. He told me it happens all the time. He said something about the students forcing the door open while the interlock was being engaged. Didn't understand what that meant. 

I think for many, the fare wasn't the issue. I think they just wanted the bus to leave quicker. They were waiting for some time.

The B49 has seen severe cuts too.  I remember back in the day that bus ran better than the B36 AND the B4.  The frequencies were decent too.

[BrooklynBus]

18 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The B49 has seen severe cuts too.  I remember back in the day that bus ran better than the B36 AND the B4.  The frequencies were decent too.

And the cuts probably resulted from the number of farebeaters, not from reduced ridership. That's the sad part. I wonder what the real figures are for fare evasion. The MTA insisted it was at acceptable levels at 3% until they admitted it was 14%. I bet it is much higher. They probably know it too. 

[B35 via Church]

I never really cared for the B49, but I noticed that service started going downhill when they added "LTD" service..... Things never got any better with the route there-afterwards - and with the B44 SBS snatching up riders along Rogers, it's not going to either.....

Farebeating is increasing throughout the city on buses & SBS of all things has only exacerbated it.... No one really mentions this, but there is this palpable attitude from some folks that SBS is exempt from service cuts..... This bonanza (lol) of service won't last (I'd argue it's being used as a bit of a teaser).... Wait til they start thinning service on SBS routes over time as the base fare undergoes increases!! Riders having to shell out more money for "faster" service while having to walk longer distances to catch buses (unless they opt to put up w/ local buses, where there's been drawbacks w/ service levels as it is).....

There are more people are entering through the back door nowadays (local/non-SBS routes I'm referring to here), as more buses have become overcrowded.... There is only but so much that alternate means of travel can accomplish in a city of this magnitude where as many people rely on mass transit..... This phenomenon isn't going to get any better & it plays into the MTA's hands, the way I see it....

To sum it up, farebeating gives the illusion that there is even more "ridership" being lost than what already is..... This agency is already trigger happy as it is, when it comes to the bus.....

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

An article was in the paper about the B46 Stabbing Incident today.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/driver-safety-rider-speed-easy-board-nyc-buses-article-1.3572448

I am supportive of more off bus paying so that drivers aren't wedged into scenarios like the one they talk about. But I also feel if operators are too passive it sends a signal that they're easy to overpower and backstab, as was the case with the B46 incident. I can understand why SBS for this route is so deserved and mostly symbolic.

However, an operator can still keep their lips zipped and call 911. Don't city buses have call pads that can dispatch the police?

 

Regardless of the backstory, anyone who farebeats tends to have the least appreciation for buses and operators should never let their guards down. I think the B49 can be redrawn to another avenue if it is to be saved, as the area it goes through is nothing short of depressing.

[NY1635]

Off board payment isn't needed as a one size fits all solution to fare beating in the city. Folks just need to be prepared to pay their fares and don't expect the bus driver to let them on after explaining why they thought it was a good idea to board the bus without getting a metro card. They don't have time to hear a passenger's personal drama over why they didn't have the common sense to buy a metrocard at the MVM, or store.  OTOH, dispatchers need to be on the stop to make sure people are using the SBS ticket machines. It sounds to me like a failure to communicate down there.

[checkmatechamp13]

9 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I never really cared for the B49, but I noticed that service started going downhill when they added "LTD" service..... Things never got any better with the route there-afterwards - and with the B44 SBS snatching up riders along Rogers, it's not going to either.....

What I would personally do with the B49 is run it down NY Avenue/Brooklyn Avenue, and have the B44 local run up Rogers. That way, the bus can get people going from Brighton Line territory to Nostrand Line territory (as well as further into East Flatbush since Brooklyn Avenue doesn't have service in that area)

[Trainmaster5]

5 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

What I would personally do with the B49 is run it down NY Avenue/Brooklyn Avenue, and have the B44 local run up Rogers. That way, the bus can get people going from Brighton Line territory to Nostrand Line territory (as well as further into East Flatbush since Brooklyn Avenue doesn't have service in that area)

My question is what routing would you have the B49 take north of Flatbush Avenue, n/b and s/b, from the northern terminal? I'm asking because both New York and Brooklyn Avenues are one-way streets for major parts of the Crown Heights and Lefferts areas. Don't forget that the B43 runs in a segment of that area. Carry on.

[BrooklynBus]

On 10/19/2017 at 2:15 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

What I would personally do with the B49 is run it down NY Avenue/Brooklyn Avenue, and have the B44 local run up Rogers. That way, the bus can get people going from Brighton Line territory to Nostrand Line territory (as well as further into East Flatbush since Brooklyn Avenue doesn't have service in that area)

You need to be more specific. But one negative I see is that it increases travel time for anyone transferring to the B35 westbound if they are coming from the south. I still believe the B49 should travel both ways on Ocean and a new route serve the Brooklyn / Albany area. But I agree with all the B44s using Nostrand Rogers. 

[checkmatechamp13]

On 10/19/2017 at 8:01 PM, Trainmaster5 said:

My question is what routing would you have the B49 take north of Flatbush Avenue, n/b and s/b, from the northern terminal? I'm asking because both New York and Brooklyn Avenues are one-way streets for major parts of the Crown Heights and Lefferts areas. Don't forget that the B43 runs in a segment of that area. Carry on.

 

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

You need to be more specific. But one negative I see is that it increases travel time for anyone transferring to the B35 westbound if they are coming from the south. I still believe the B49 should travel both ways on Ocean and a new route serve the Brooklyn / Albany area. But I agree with all the B44s using Nostrand Rogers. 

I would run it via Foster to NY/Brooklyn, then go to either Lenox or Linden to get around the hospital. Then buses would run both ways on NY Avenue and end at Empire Blvd where riders can transfer to the B43 to continue further north (I was thinking about keeping mileage similar and going up to Fulton Street, and a small part of me wanted to send it to Utica/Eastern, but the B12 already connects the B14/17/46 to the hospitals by Albany Avenue, and that area is already a short walk/crosstown bus ride from the  and . 

[BrooklynBus]

10 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

 

I would run it via Foster to NY/Brooklyn, then go to either Lenox or Linden to get around the hospital. Then buses would run both ways on NY Avenue and end at Empire Blvd where riders can transfer to the B43 to continue further north (I was thinking about keeping mileage similar and going up to Fulton Street, and a small part of me wanted to send it to Utica/Eastern, but the B12 already connects the B14/17/46 to the hospitals by Albany Avenue, and that area is already a short walk/crosstown bus ride from the  and . 

One of the positives I could think of with your proposal is that it would be saleable to the MTA because it would be a cut in service and the MTA would be for any cuts. The other positive is the providing of service on Brooklyn Avenue. Other than what I mentioned before about transferring to the B35, there are other disadvantages. I do not believe Empire and New York is a strong enough point for a terminus. 

I also would use Brooklyn Ave both ways where it is two-way. 

Using your ideas as a basis what I would do is the following: split the B49 and B50 into two routes. The B49 would operate as currently from Manhattan Beach but continue along Ocean until Empire Blvd. there it would turn east along Empire until Utica, north on Utica to Montgomery, east to East NY Ave and East NY to Empire Blvd and back to Ocean. The B50 would start at Manhattan Beach and use the old B49 route bypassing the Sheepshead Bay subway station by taking Emmons directly to Ocean. Then it would take Ocean to Foster to Brooklyn to Church to NY to Empire where it would join the B49 to Utica. 

I do not see any reason to serve the Eastern Parkway subway station. Don't think it is worth the extra mileage. 

There are several advantages to this over your plan. Mileage would be similar and not be a cut. There would be a direct transfer to the B35 without circuitous routing. Brooklyn would be faster than NY especially near the cemetery. It keeps the route on the same streets in both directions and gives riders from Manhattan Beach to option of the subway detour which can be very time-consuming when there is traffic adding 10 minutes or longer. When I recommended the detour in 1978, traffic was much lighter and only added five minutes. Also, only about 20 percent of riders need the detour. Most are going straight through. This compares with over 50 percent of B1 passengers getting on and off at the Brighton subway. 

Also, I lived near Utica and Empire for 25 years and can tell you an Empire Blvd route is sorely needed. Using the B12 and B44 is very indirect and we always walked miles to travel along Empire rather than use indirect routing. Also, the Montgomery East NY turn looks difficult on a map but school runs did it regularly without any problems. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by BrooklynBus

[B35 via Church]

Much of nobody wants the B49 around here (in this part of Brooklyn I'm at).... The surrounding north-south routes (B41/B44) much better satisfies ppl's transit needs (in terms of buses, that is).... The B49 is more vital for [South Brooklyn folks traveling w/i South Brooklyn] & [Crown Heights/Bed Stuy folks traveling down towards this part of Brooklyn, or no further south than Flatbush av]..... The latter is really the only reason I would keep that segment north of Flatbush.... Otherwise, for all I care, it may as well be cut back to Flatbush av from the south; either that or (as much as I abhor the idea) have it continue to run up along the rest of Ocean to Prospect Park subway.....

What the B44 SBS does north of nostrand (well, up to Fulton), is actually an idea I had many moons ago on rider diaries - back when you had folks on that *combine the B48/B49* bit..... Instead of combining those 2 routes, I was thinking up ways that the B49 should be split.... I have said that a turn makes a major difference as far as how useful a route is (in light of addressing/debunking this theory that all bus routes should be straight as possible, which is why I favor modified grid routes over grid routes)... The B12 is an optimistic case (the turn onto Albany, etc. instead of continuing along Clarkson), where as the B49 is a pessimistic case (the turn down onto Ocean from Foster).....

Anyway, the 2 ideas were:

- Nostrand/Av. U to Fulton/Franklin
[NB routing via the current B44 SBS b/w Av U & Fulton, then the current B49 to Fulton/Franklin]
[SB routing via the current 49 to flatbush av, Flatbush av, Nostrand av, then the current B44 to Av. U]

- KCC to Newkirk (B)(Q) via a diverted B49 making a left (instead of making a right) on Foster....

Basically, the former suggestion was something I thought that should've been done via a modification of the B49.... Instead, the MTA uses such a routing (and then some) to take away from the B44 local (which is what SBS does)..... Fact of the matter is, the B44 local was (and still is) much more useful than the B49 - for the central part of Brooklyn here OR southern Brooklyn !

------------------------------------------------------

On 10/2/2017 at 2:01 AM, WestFarms36 said:

It's very sad how people aren't able to take 1 SECOND OF THEIR PRECIOUS LIVES to actually STOP AND READ a simple sign that says "Pay Before Boarding the Bus." and then wonder why the hell did they get a $100 dollar fine. Like I sometimes feel like going "You Brainless @$$hole the instructions to pay are in your face!" And then they even simply ignore the sign on the Farebox that say "No Fares Collected Inside the Bus." And still dump the MetroCard in the Farebox, I have no sympathy for people who know how to read and later act that they didn't know, and honestly their balloni is what's screwing this country up. They think that by just victimizing themselves and running over to the media is going to stop everything they consider bad. Same people who ask for a free ride while we have to pay to take a ride and then deal with their BS. Taxpayer dollars going into transit filling up more than half of the necessary gap to pay for those freeby @$$holes. We need more enforcement involved with this issue, and people need to stop being a potato and damn take a second to get your face off the screen and read!

+100....

It's cool to be irresponsible... It's easier to be a victim....

Welcome to feminized USA !

Act oblivious to EVERYTHING & be immersed & "educated" on total bullshit..... Feign stupidity when it comes to consequences of actions you shouldn't be engaging in in the first place, but can break down who's screwing who on some reality TV show to the goddamn tee..... Some people say Michael Jackson was the first black man to die a white woman - Well, I've never thought I'd end up being subjected to experiencing the emasculation of as many future young men adult males; growing up to being drama queens....

I'll accept the title of being a tin foil hat wearing f*****' nutcase, if it means being galaxies away from the matrix that's completely constituted of being mass media controlled by the gubbermintz.... I'd like to believe that people in general aren't stupid, but I'd only be wasting my time..... Common sense isn't common & free-thought is actually ridiculed (and in some cases, reprimanded)....

You'll get no counter argument from me on this.... I've long been sick & f***ing tired of this slut culture (which is what it is) that we're in; where everything should be handed out to you, while you work towards & contribute much of nothing to & for the betterment of society.....

No sympathy from me either.... I get a certain glee when farebeaters are caught..... Good.... Public transportation isn't free here, nor are you entitled to it... Farebeating like a MF-er, but be the first person bitching when fares go up....

Incredible....

Edited October 22, 2017 by B35 via Church