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Pols call for Q75 bus to be restored


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The . Q/36 extension is absolutely crazy and there is another example of how NIMBY's defeated a change to make the route better when it was proposed that the route be extended to LIRR Floral Park Station. The only thing that I can think of that caused this bit of stupidity as there was a problem in keeping the two routes separate as no one goes from Jamaica to Little Neck as the Q/30 A does the same thing via different routing. 

Let me throw out this idea involving the Eastern part of the Q/88 and say it runs to Springfield and Jamaica instead of being cut is for it runs out of  the Queens Village garage. By starting it there, even though it may not carry many passengers until Fresh Meadows, the bosses can say that it is not dead head mileage as the bus is providing service. Knowing how bureaucracies  think and work, i would not pt it past them 

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9 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Lazy answer: Jamaica av. isn't far enough south.... JMO.

Detailed answer: How would it not (do much good), when you yourself proclaim that the reliability issues along the route are occurring west of QCC? You pinpoint a clear & definitive portion of the route that's the most problematic.... It gets enough ridership to hold its own, so I'm not seeing how splitting the Q27 in such a manner not amounting to doing much good... You find the problem, you quarantine it & deal with it accordingly.... If the Q27 wasn't as long as it is, we wouldn't be having this discussion.... Look at what happened with the n20; yes there's turnover galore, but where else would you conceivably have split that route, outside of LIRR Great Neck? The same general train of thought applies here....

It's not necessarily about what's wrong with Jamaica av, per se.... My point is that there's a moderate amt. of SE Queens folks emanating south of Jamaica av, that are riding up past Hillside, to at least Union Tpke... You already have the Q1 & the Q88 over-saturating Springfield b/w Jamaica av & Hillside av.... The problem I'm having, quite frankly, is this *let's just plug any ole route to fill that void south of Jamaica av on the Q27*..... Again, some may disagree, and the MTA may have even accidentally tapped into that demand (whatever year that was), but I agreed with the swapping of the Q83 up to the rail station for a southward extension of the Q27 into Cambria Heights instead.... Those 83's used to carry air; can't say the same thing for the Q27 south of Jamaica av. by any stretch of the imagination.....

In laymens, the Q27 gets you out of SE Queens without having to cut through Jamaica proper first..... There is no other (local) bus route that does that....

I say all that, but let me be very crystal clear here.... I would rather leave the Q27 running between Flushing & Cambria Heights, than to go about (cutting the route back to Jamaica av from Flushing or splitting the route at HHE).... Too bad Flushing is as far away from HHE/Springfield....

Springfield south of Jamaica av used to be quite dead in terms of bus activity 20 or so years ago.... The Q27 extension gave it life.... So I'm of the camp that says leave the Q27 alone down there (that includes, not extending it to Merrick... which some believe should happen)....

Agreed in regards to preserving the Q27. But I guess I don't see much of the point of quarantining the problem, given that most of the ridership is where the problem is anyways, so the other sections are not contributing to the problem at all. If you were to quarantine the problem, then the other sections would just get much worse bus service overall.

I think the big issue with the Queens bus network is that until you get as far east as Springfield, you have no north-south buses that cross Hillside Avenue, and between 188th and Springfield there are no north-south buses that go to Flushing. That's quite a large gap in service. Perhaps you could fill that with the Q26, but that's neither here nor there.

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I’m late to the party but I’ll add some of my thoughts. 

I remember back when the Q75 ran, it did not carry much people except during the rush hours where you would have a few people standing up. Ideally on paper it sounds like a good idea to bring back the Q75 as it will provide Oakland Gardens with direct bus service and eliminate the transfer between the Q17 and Q88 at 73rd and 188th Street. However most people along 73rd and Oakland Gardens don’t want service to Jamaica. This is evident due to the fact that no one is transferring at 73rd and 188 to continue service. 

I totally disagree with a Q64 extension. I use that bus everyday so I would be biased but you all have to remember, the longer a route gets the more unreliable it gets. The Q64 is a feeder for the subway and provides direct service to Queens College. It does what it does perfectly and see good usage argueable which could make it a candidate for artics during rush hours. 

For those who want the Q74 back I don’t think it’s necessary only because Queens College has its own shuttle bus and the Q64 was always way more frequent than the Q74 ever was, plus you do have the Q88 on the Horace Harding. The Q17/Q20/Q25/Q34/Q44 also don’t offer much growth for the Q74 either.

I would not touch the Q27 or Q88 in that area either. Let’s say if the Q27 presently had its old routing where it only went to Springfield and the Horace Harding I could see every 3rd bus going to Oakland Gardens. But yeah that’s not the case since the Q27 goes all the way to 120th Ave. The Q27 does too much IMO but it works though and bet the Q27 would even plow over the Q77’s usage between Francis Lewis Blvd and Merrick Blvd if it was to ever be extended that far. I don’t recommend the extension at all but I could see where the Q77 would become sort of irrelevant if the Q27 did go to Merrick. 

I also don’t see the MTA rerouting some Q88’s over to Oakland either no matter how light it carries down to Jamaica Ave. The Q88 down there was more or less for the purpose of having it terminate closer to the depot and even possibly having a reasonable terminate that doesn’t stop short. That’s the reason why I don’t see it being tunicated to Union turnpike like B35 suggest. I rode the Q88 to its Queens Village terminal before and yeah the Q27 no doubt sees the most usage out of the 3 lines on that stretch. The Q1 in my opinion should be eliminated because it supplements the Q43 and even to a certain extent Q36 since it does pass the Queens Village LIRR but I’m not 100% sure how well it does on Springfield and or Braddock. If I had to take a guess probably not that well since it’s service is split between two eastern terminals on top of the fact that it’s service is not that well in the first place. 

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Based on what most of  the posters on this thread, we can agree that the Q/74 & Q/75 should not be resurrected from the list of dead routes.  The Q/64 should remain as is as well as the Q/27.  What  comes across loud and clear is the need for short turns and more buses on some routes as the MTA cannot provide the same level of service that it did many years ago as the communities in Eastern Queens have changed from 20 -30 years ago and thus there has been an increase in bus ridership but not to terminals like Jamaica.

New Flyer 230 raises a good point about the Q/1 as to what does it do and is it really needed? I have been asking that question for many years since I first saw a schedule for the route when it was first published. Does it pick up that many passengers on Springfield Boulevard from Hillside to Jamaica Avenues that go to Jamaica? if the route is eliminated what routes should receive the buses are now available.

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Agreed in regards to preserving the Q27. But I guess I don't see much of the point of quarantining the problem, given that most of the ridership is where the problem is anyways, so the other sections are not contributing to the problem at all. If you were to quarantine the problem, then the other sections would just get much worse bus service overall.

The point is one of attempting to make the Q27 more reliable....

The simplest way is to split the thing (you're making arguments as if I said it was the best way or something)... I intentionally ignored that point about the (Springfield) split getting much worse service the first time you mentioned it because 1] I'm not disputing it & 2] I've made that very point to someone on here in the past that had an actual Q27 split idea.....

The initial option/suggestion/talking point originally presented (having every trip run to Jamaica av) isn't going to make the Q27 too much more reliable than what it is now... The way I see it, the message you're conveying here is - In an attempt to make the route more reliable, the riders that solely utilize the Q27 at & south of HHE (or QCC) on down to Jamaica av. should be subjected to the delays/problems that are clearly emanating from the Flushing - HHE portion of the route.... Telling me that the other sections aren't contributing to the problem (while true) is not relevant - you would really only have a point with that, if the vast majority of SE Queens riders were riding all the way out to Flushing.... Which they are not... Which is why I said splitting that route in such a manner is the simplest way....

16 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

I think the big issue with the Queens bus network is that until you get as far east as Springfield, you have no north-south buses that cross Hillside Avenue, and between 188th and Springfield there are no north-south buses that go to Flushing. That's quite a large gap in service. Perhaps you could fill that with the Q26, but that's neither here nor there.

The MTA gave SE Queens a boatload of bus service as a compromise for never having built a subway out there..... Even if we completely disregard stark demographical differences & things of that nature, a lot of that lack of connectivity b/w NE Queens & SE Queens has to do with that compromise....

Personally, I think the sub-network in LIC is even more problematic....

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21 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

The . Q/36 extension is absolutely crazy and there is another example of how NIMBY's defeated a change to make the route better when it was proposed that the route be extended to LIRR Floral Park Station. The only thing that I can think of that caused this bit of stupidity as there was a problem in keeping the two routes separate as no one goes from Jamaica to Little Neck as the Q/30 A does the same thing via different routing. 

Let me throw out this idea involving the Eastern part of the Q/88 and say it runs to Springfield and Jamaica instead of being cut is for it runs out of  the Queens Village garage. By starting it there, even though it may not carry many passengers until Fresh Meadows, the bosses can say that it is not dead head mileage as the bus is providing service. Knowing how bureaucracies  think and work, i would not pt it past them 

Before I started posting on any forums, I used to think that the Q88 interlined with the Q83 (back when the Q83 ended at LIRR QV full time).....

If your hypothesis at the end there is true, then it's just one more of many things that's wrong with this agency....

2 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

....The Q1 in my opinion should be eliminated because it supplements the Q43 and even to a certain extent Q36 since it does pass the Queens Village LIRR but I’m not 100% sure how well it does on Springfield and or Braddock. If I had to take a guess probably not that well since it’s service is split between two eastern terminals on top of the fact that it’s service is not that well in the first place.

1 hour ago, Interested Rider said:

Based on what most of  the posters on this thread, we can agree that the Q/74 & Q/75 should not be resurrected from the list of dead routes.  The Q/64 should remain as is as well as the Q/27.  What  comes across loud and clear is the need for short turns and more buses on some routes as the MTA cannot provide the same level of service that it did many years ago as the communities in Eastern Queens have changed from 20 -30 years ago and thus there has been an increase in bus ridership but not to terminals like Jamaica.

New Flyer 230 raises a good point about the Q/1 as to what does it do and is it really needed? I have been asking that question for many years since I first saw a schedule for the route when it was first published. Does it pick up that many passengers on Springfield Boulevard from Hillside to Jamaica Avenues that go to Jamaica? if the route is eliminated what routes should receive the buses are now available.

To Interested Rider: Yeah, instead of suggesting artics & SBS' to try to rectify matters (like some are prone to), I have always favored short turning buses... Over the years more of them have popped up on the Q17 & look how many of them are on the Q30.... I wish it would happen here in Brooklyn w/ the B15; too many trips are running to Woodhull that need not be....

To both of you: Lol, the Q1.... man, I've been saying that redundant ass route should be eliminated.... The Q1 is needed like I need a hole in the head - All it really is, is a half-ass Q43 supplement that serves 165th... Give those physical buses to the Q43 (have that route short turn to serve the Braddock portion), or some other route that could put those resources to better use..... The Q1 Springfield branch carries quite a bit of air before it hits Hillside from the south (an argument can be made that's it actually less useful down there than the Q88)... I tend to find it funny when (right after WB buses turn onto Hillside) the bus fills up w/ schoolkids at Springfield....

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2 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

Based on what most of  the posters on this thread, we can agree that the Q/74 & Q/75 should not be resurrected from the list of dead routes.  The Q/64 should remain as is as well as the Q/27.  What  comes across loud and clear is the need for short turns and more buses on some routes as the MTA cannot provide the same level of service that it did many years ago as the communities in Eastern Queens have changed from 20 -30 years ago and thus there has been an increase in bus ridership but not to terminals like Jamaica.

New Flyer 230 raises a good point about the Q/1 as to what does it do and is it really needed? I have been asking that question for many years since I first saw a schedule for the route when it was first published. Does it pick up that many passengers on Springfield Boulevard from Hillside to Jamaica Avenues that go to Jamaica? if the route is eliminated what routes should receive the buses are now available.

At least during the peak, the Q27 is running essentially at the max it can go without being gummed up on Holly; that road should really be one-way with how narrow it is.

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21 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

At least during the peak, the Q27 is running essentially at the max it can go without being gummed up on Holly; that road should really be one-way with how narrow it is.

I have never liked the stretch along Holly. It's just too narrow, especially after a snowfall. 

Maybe the Q27 should use 45th Avenue instead between Parsons and Kissena. Or maybe it could just follow the Q26 along Parsons between 46th and Sanford; the Q65 can take over the "helper" function on Kissena.

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I don't mean to go off topic, but why the hell does the Q1 exist? It's basically a short-turned Q43, and got the nerve to have 2 lanes at 165. Like it runs every 5 minutes or something. On top of that, it has a short turn to 179. Welp, gotta thank those Van Buren kids that take it

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I have to agree that the Q/27 making the turn from Holly Avenue into Kissena Boulevard and vice versa is a major problem. I can remember back to my days of taking the Q/17 from Flushing to the college seeing the Q/27  having problems making that turn especially with a bus waiting to turn in the opposite direction. Let's face it as Kissena is no bargain either as it is quite similar to Holly (not that much) and the other routes get delayed there as well. This raises the issue of if the route is changed to what streets  are wider or whether it should follow the Q/26 routing from Flushing or will a change in streets not work as there are a lot of riders transferring when the route operates on Kissena?

I think that there is agreement for the need for short turns on the Q/17 and the Q/27 but then the question is where is the bulk of the ridership? Taking the Q/17 i am presuming is it north and west of 188th Street and the Expressway or Utopia Parkway or is it from Jamaica? If the ridership drops by the time it arrives at 188th Street, then the short turn at 188th Street and 69th Avenue  should be there. If the drop in ridership occurs before then it should be  at fresh Meadow Lane. The question then becomes how much service does  Jamaica need and should the short turns be made during the mid day as well as rush hours?

Should the Q/27 short turn at the Community College from Flushing instead of at the expressway during the week? IS that were the bulk of the ridership is or does it start picking up around Utopia Parkway where the Q/26 joins with the route?  

 

 

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5 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

I have never liked the stretch along Holly. It's just too narrow, especially after a snowfall. 

Maybe the Q27 should use 45th Avenue instead between Parsons and Kissena. Or maybe it could just follow the Q26 along Parsons between 46th and Sanford; the Q65 can take over the "helper" function on Kissena.

I get that the little stretch it has on Holly Ave between Kissena and Parsons is narrow but why subject the Q65 to the same thing. The Q65 has a few problems on its own and it doesn’t need another one. 

For one I always felt that the Q65 should follow the Q26 route on 46th Ave and then onto Parsons but instead of turning onto Sanford it would continue up Parsons to Roosevelt Ave and then pass Main Street to College Point Blvd and then normal route. I think it would slightly speed things up and avoid all the traffic and narrow blocks it runs on.

Another problem with that route in general is that after a certain time the Q25 and Q65 is a joke. I don’t know why the headway’s are so poor in the evenings on top of buses being late, bunching all the time and literally the Q17 grabs up a good portion of the Q25 riders since its service is lousy in the evening. 

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The only problem for the Q27 is Holly. IIRC someone proposed that 45 and 46 Avs should be made one way, which I wouldn't mind.

I also think that the Q65 has no business being on Main; it should run via Union and 35 Av rather than Main and Northern. But that is neither here nor there.

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On 10/9/2017 at 5:08 PM, B35 via Church said:

The point is one of attempting to make the Q27 more reliable....

The simplest way is to split the thing (you're making arguments as if I said it was the best way or something)... I intentionally ignored that point about the (Springfield) split getting much worse service the first time you mentioned it because 1] I'm not disputing it & 2] I've made that very point to someone on here in the past that had an actual Q27 split idea.....

The initial option/suggestion/talking point originally presented (having every trip run to Jamaica av) isn't going to make the Q27 too much more reliable than what it is now... The way I see it, the message you're conveying here is - In an attempt to make the route more reliable, the riders that solely utilize the Q27 at & south of HHE (or QCC) on down to Jamaica av. should be subjected to the delays/problems that are clearly emanating from the Flushing - HHE portion of the route.... Telling me that the other sections aren't contributing to the problem (while true) is not relevant - you would really only have a point with that, if the vast majority of SE Queens riders were riding all the way out to Flushing.... Which they are not... Which is why I said splitting that route in such a manner is the simplest way....

The MTA gave SE Queens a boatload of bus service as a compromise for never having built a subway out there..... Even if we completely disregard stark demographical differences & things of that nature, a lot of that lack of connectivity b/w NE Queens & SE Queens has to do with that compromise....

Personally, I think the sub-network in LIC is even more problematic....

Agreed, western and southern(?) Queens is a crapshoot. I don't know about SE Queens, but Eastern Queens (I don't really consider anything between Northern and Hillside to be "NE") does okay with what it has, even if the buses are becoming too crowded. At least the buses show up.

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On 10/6/2017 at 9:31 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

 

 I would instead revamp the Q75, so that it terminates at Kew Gardens, via Union Turnpike west of 188 Street. (could run as a limited-stop service), in order to relieve the Q46. It reduces the redundancy, and if an extension to QCC is planned, allows riders from the west to not have to ride all the way to Jamaica or Flushing to catch a bus to QCC. 

There was an electrical failure last weekend that brought QBL subway service to a snarl.

Looking at the comments, I can see why restoring it isn't easier said than done, but QBL subway tunnels are the most stressed out tunnels in the system, and may be suffering even more than the Canarsie tubes set to shutdown in year and a half.

If those kinds of issues persist, I think the City DOT should consider something similar to the Canarsie shutdown, except for QBL.

 

it is an insane proposal. But what would be more insane are the casualties, personal and financial, that occur from not addressing an overburdened Queens Boulevard.

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On Fri Oct 06 2017 at 8:46 PM, JubaionBx12+SBS said:

Given less than 1,000 people a weekday used the Q75 leading up to it's elimination, I don't see where this push to restore it has any legs. The last thing this bus system are deadweight routes when all of them are having major issues and bellweathers like the M15 and B46 are dropping in ridership. I was going through BusTime earlier when I had some downtime at work and wanted to faceplam at the service on several different routes. 

Your talking about unused lines, the M8 has to be the most underused line based on the way I've been seeing it the last 4 weeks

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The Q/46 is one of those routes that should be left alone except to add more service. So the suggestion to add some Q/75 buses from Oakland Gardens is as far as I am concerned a non-starter as  the question then becomes what route has to be cut to provide the buses for Oakland Gardens which had a route that did have the ridership when it ran.

I can understand the request for the Q/46 to become an SBS service as the route serves a diverse group of traffic generators. The route serves two hospitals (Long Island Jewish and the Queens Hospital Center  (164th Street),) St. John's University, and the E & F at Union Turnpike. in addition it is the only bus route from Eastern Queens that serves Queens Borough Hall and transfers to all routes that that run north-south to the Queens Line. In other words, it is a very heavily traveled route. It has limited service during the rush hours and the buses are quite crowded. My suggestion is that limited service be expanded during the day as the route can become quite crowded, The only reason that i can think of for it not being considered for SBS is that Union Turnpike is three lane in each way street and is mostly residential with few apartment houses on its route. Even though there are businesses on Union Turnpike, there are places where the buses can make up time except as it gets closer to the Queens Boulevard terminal.

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6 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

The Q/46 is one of those routes that should be left alone except to add more service. So the suggestion to add some Q/75 buses from Oakland Gardens is as far as I am concerned a non-starter as  the question then becomes what route has to be cut to provide the buses for Oakland Gardens which had a route that did have the ridership when it ran.

I can understand the request for the Q/46 to become an SBS service as the route serves a diverse group of traffic generators. The route serves two hospitals (Long Island Jewish and the Queens Hospital Center  (164th Street),) St. John's University, and the E & F at Union Turnpike. in addition it is the only bus route from Eastern Queens that serves Queens Borough Hall and transfers to all routes that that run north-south to the Queens Line. In other words, it is a very heavily traveled route. It has limited service during the rush hours and the buses are quite crowded. My suggestion is that limited service be expanded during the day as the route can become quite crowded, The only reason that i can think of for it not being considered for SBS is that Union Turnpike is three lane in each way street and is mostly residential with few apartment houses on its route. Even though there are businesses on Union Turnpike, there are places where the buses can make up time except as it gets closer to the Queens Boulevard terminal.

 

Totally agree more service is needed, both peak and off-peak. The service gaps have become horrible as of late. 

 

In terms of SBS, just having off-board payment would be a big help. One lane of Union is already a "no parking" lane in rush hour, so turning it into a bus only lane during that period is not a big deal. But I don't think it needs a bus lane 24/7.

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On 10/11/2017 at 1:33 AM, bobtehpanda said:

Agreed, western and southern(?) Queens is a crapshoot. I don't know about SE Queens, but Eastern Queens (I don't really consider anything between Northern and Hillside to be "NE") does okay with what it has, even if the buses are becoming too crowded. At least the buses show up.

Neither do I, nor was I trying to.... I specifically brought up NE Queens purposefully.

On 10/11/2017 at 1:25 PM, Around the Horn said:

What does that have to do with the Q75?

What does his posts have to do with anything....

On 10/11/2017 at 1:44 PM, Lawrence St said:

Your talking about unused lines, the M8 has to be the most underused line based on the way I've been seeing it the last 4 weeks

Same old M8 huh? Lol.... Don't miss being around that route at all... Spent too much time getting stuck behind some delivery vehicle (or any other double parked vehicle) along W. 10th.... Worse than that, it practically does nothing for the west side of Manhattan (even the M21 is more useful on that end)....

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9 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Neither do I, nor was I trying to.... I specifically brought up NE Queens purposefully.

What does his posts have to do with anything....

Same old M8 huh? Lol.... Don't miss being around that route at all... Spent too much time getting stuck behind some delivery vehicle (or any other double parked vehicle) along W. 10th.... Worse than that, it practically does nothing for the west side of Manhattan (even the M21 is more useful on that end)....

Haha, very funny.

 

I'm saying that the MTA wastes money on services that should be cut. If the Q75 were to return, do they want it there to use it or just to use it when they need it?

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5 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Haha, very funny.

I'm saying that the MTA wastes money on services that should be cut. If the Q75 were to return, do they want it there to use it or just to use it when they need it?

Yes, I got your point.... All I'm saying (in so many words), is that things apparently haven't changed w/ the route (taking your post into consideration)....
I wouldn't be too quick to pull the trigger on it though (entirely anyway), but that's another discussion for another time.....

As far as that inquiry about the Q75, well this is clearly a political move; to try improve relations with their constituents (which by itself isn't a bad thing).... At the same time, there was never much of a clamoring for Oakland Gardens - Jamaica travel anyway.... Quite frankly, I refuse to believe there's a sudden influx of that drastic a change in commuting habits from a community that's still rather 1] car centric & 2] one of the more older neigborhoods (in terms of residents) in the city - to the point where the Q75 should be resurrected....

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I  agree with B/35 via Church as this is a straight out political move by Councilman Ydanis Rodriguez who was appointed to the MTA Board by our great and mighty mayor and approved by the New York State Senate last year. This is why this smacks as a political favor to the councilman in that district of Queens who should be honest with his constituents and tell them the truth as to why the route was eliminated in the first place in 2010. I doubt if any of the people complaining want to go to Jamaica so where is the ridership going to come from as there is service to Kew Gardens on Union Turnpike, Flushing service on Springfield Boulevard, Queens Center service on Springfield Boulevard and 73rd Avenue and Express Bus service on at least one or two streets within walking distance. The area has been car-centric for decades as the only time that my aunts, uncles and cousins used the bus was to go to Manhattan to work. The only difference from that time to today was they switched to the express bus service to go to  Manhattan.

It drives me up a wall when these know nothings in various positions in city and state government come up with these ideas where if they would go back and learn the reasons why a route was eliminated before running to a member of the council who is also a member of the MTA board. Sometimes i think that the theme song of every person running for elected office should be "Promises, Promises" (Thank you Bert Bachrach and Dionne Warwick). What happened to honesty and truth in politics or did that disappear when Harry S. Truman left the White House on January 20, 1953?

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On 10/7/2017 at 3:50 PM, Q43LTD said:

I would bring back the Q74 as a rush hour route. The Q14, I'm kinda on the fence on that. Seems like everyone's on the "extend the Q64 eastward to 230" bandwagon. (myself included). I doubt anyone in Oakland Gardens was willing to backtrack to Jamaica for subway service. 

Here's a hybrid idea (assuming sufficient resources)...

 

(1) Restore parts of Q74 and Q75 as a new Q73 (73rd Avenue Crosstown) from Kew Gardens subway via Vleigh Place and 73rd Avenue to 230th Street (or extended to QCC).

 

(2) Link Queens College from Queens Blvd subway (express and local) with a new Q64 branch/short-turn ("Q63"?) via Jewel Avenue, left Kissena Blvd, left Melbourne Avenue, to terminal. Return via Melbourne, left 150th Street, right Jewel Avenue, to Forest Hills.

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