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Broken Elevators Plague New 63rd and Lex Station


Via Garibaldi 8
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13 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What an ignorant comment. Sometimes people need to think...

I'm just being matter-of-fact. The (MTA) obviously needs to fix the elevators ASAP, especially since I use the 3rd Avenue entrance every weekday now and am greatly inconvenienced by this. That being said, it's rather hyperbolic to say that the station is somehow completely unusable now when the station has lacked the 3rd Avenue entrance for the vast majority of its existence. So I ask, in all honesty, what did handicapped people do last year? There were no elevators and yet the world kept turning, the station kept operating, etc. Forgive me for not blindly jumping into the usual chorus chanting grievances against the (MTA), \since that's so helpful\.

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1 minute ago, Skipper said:

I'm just being matter-of-fact. The (MTA) obviously needs to fix the elevators ASAP, especially since I use the 3rd Avenue entrance every weekday now and am greatly inconvenienced by this. That being said, it's rather hyperbolic to say that the station is somehow completely unusable now when the station has lacked the 3rd Avenue entrance for the vast majority of its existence. So I ask, in all honesty, what did handicapped people do last year? There were no elevators and yet the world kept turning, the station kept operating, etc. Forgive me for not blindly jumping into the usual chorus chanting grievances against the (MTA), \since that's so helpful\.

You're not handicapped, so it's easy for you to blurt out such a response.  People that are handicapped in this city have to plan very carefully which subway station to use, and that may add a substantial amount of time to their commute, but no biggie. <_< What did they do before? They used another station obviously, but that's neither here nor there.  A relatively new station with four elevators and all of them out is alarming...

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1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You're not handicapped, so it's easy for you to blurt out such a response.  People that are handicapped in this city have to plan very carefully which subway station to use, and that may add a substantial amount of time to their commute, but no biggie. <_< What did they do before? They used another station obviously, but that's neither here nor there.  A relatively new station with four elevators and all of them out is alarming...

Yes, it is alarming in theory, but this shouldn't shock us anymore. I suspect that there's a racket whereby "someone" ensures that certain features of station installations break down so that repairmen have an excuse to generate more guaranteed work and earn an income. What's the consequence for something working and then breaking weeks or months later? Is the contractor held accountable? The damned escalator at South Ferry is broken after just reopening, also on 53rd street, and several other places. It seems like everywhere I go there's a broken elevator or escalator, including brand-spanking-new places. It's a conspiracy!

My flippancy is a result of (MTA) fatigue. I have now come to expect that things will break unreasonably and inconceivably as a matter of course, so we should just accept that as their new default "modus in-operandi" unless someone plans to do something concrete that will back the agency into a corner and force them to act.

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2 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Yes, it is alarming in theory, but this shouldn't shock us anymore. I suspect that there's a racket whereby "someone" ensures that certain features of station installations break down so that repairmen have an excuse to generate more guaranteed work and earn an income. What's the consequence for something working and then breaking weeks or months later? Is the contractor held accountable? The damned escalator at South Ferry is broken after just reopening, also on 53rd street, and several other places. It seems like everywhere I go there's a broken elevator or escalator, including brand-spanking-new places. It's a conspiracy!

My flippancy is a result of (MTA) fatigue. I have now come to expect that things will break unreasonably and inconceivably as a matter of course, so we should just accept that as their new default "modus in-operandi" unless someone plans to do something concrete that will back the agency into a corner and force them to act.

Well here's the thing... How many elevators or escalators do you use outside of the ones in (MTA) stations, and how many of those are broken?  Quite frankly it makes no sense.  Either they're accepting bids that are far too low and/or contractors are trying to fatten their pockets by doing shoddy or both.  It really doesn't make any sense. Not necessarily shocking per se, but if the (MTA) is spending what they claim they are to repairs these things, then clearly something needs to be changed.  My personal take on it is they don't want to be bothered with elevators or escalators and go for the lowest bids possible.  It's not as if elevators and escalators are such technology. We've been using them in thousands of buildings now for many years. and somehow they seem to work, but then again they are also better maintained, something the (MTA) is not known for in general.

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To be honest, I'd rather a station open without escalators and elevators if it means opening it on time or only a "little bit" late, rather than holding up the completion of an entire station due to their ineptitude. Elevator issues delayed the opening of the Hudson Yards Station, South Ferry Station, Fulton Center, and Dey Street Concourse for months, an example of (MTA) inefficiency and ineptitude that is still fresh in my mind. Perhaps it all comes down to money; the (MTA) doesn't really care about elevators because the majority of customers can use the stairs and are so desperate for transit that they will. The agency won't act out of goodwill towards the people of the city it serves, so it needs some kind of financial incentive to not cheap-out on these things. I say legally compel contractors to make repairs for free if and when things break down within one year of opening as part of the original contract.

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1 hour ago, Skipper said:

To be honest, I'd rather a station open without escalators and elevators if it means opening it on time or only a "little bit" late, rather than holding up the completion of an entire station due to their ineptitude. Elevator issues delayed the opening of the Hudson Yards Station, South Ferry Station, Fulton Center, and Dey Street Concourse for months, an example of (MTA) inefficiency and ineptitude that is still fresh in my mind. Perhaps it all comes down to money; the (MTA) doesn't really care about elevators because the majority of customers can use the stairs and are so desperate for transit that they will. The agency won't act out of goodwill towards the people of the city it serves, so it needs some kind of financial incentive to not cheap-out on these things. I say legally compel contractors to make repairs for free if and when things break down within one year of opening as part of the original contract.

Well we really don't know how many disabled people want to use the system, but are shut out from doing so since I haven't seen any statistics, but given the amount of lawsuits from disabled riders of late, I'd say it's a fair amount.  I found an article on this very issue earlier that I'm going to post.  It's quite eye-opening what disabled people have to go through in some areas just to use the subway, let alone take efficient trips.

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10 hours ago, Skipper said:

To be honest, I'd rather a station open without escalators and elevators if it means opening it on time or only a "little bit" late, rather than holding up the completion of an entire station due to their ineptitude.

I can't believe I even have to say this again, but I'm gonna do it anyways.

This is not about the MTA doing charity work. The ADA is about the civil rights of disabled people. Hence all the damn lawsuits.

If the MTA were segregated and the colored stairs and the colored elevators were busted all the time, that would be a civil rights issue. This is the same damn thing. Disabled people are capable of fully integrating with society just like the rest of them if they are given to chance, but institutional discrimination prevents this.

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On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 10:02 PM, Skipper said:

I guess if all the elevators are broken, then treat the station like its 1989-2016 version, but with the (Q) added. What did handicapped people do last year?

They used the station just as they do currently. That station opened with elevators back in '89, as did the rest of the 63rd Street stations.

Besides, even if the elevators were installed recently to coincide with the (Q) extension, that is not an excuse. This station has been closed off and on for nearly three years for renovations related to the Second Avenue line. In that time, all of the elevators should've been confirmed to be in working order so there would not be any incidents a few months later. Things like this continue to show the MTA's incompetence in matters such as these. Installing elevators and ensuring they work beyond the initial installation, especially in new-build stations, should not be rocket science, but once again, it is. Why is that other transit agencies can effectively provide handicapped access, but not New York? I think we're getting past the point where we can use age as a reason for the delays. Not with contemporary systems in Boston and London making significant strides towards full access.

 

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On 10/17/2017 at 3:22 PM, RailRunRob said:

Id love the numbers to compare New York's stats to a city like London per-say see what there escalator breakdown percentages are. Yeah there more stations here but London Has a good amount of deep level stations only accessible by escalator. Think that would be a good way of seeing were the MTA is and ways to make it better and hold them accountable. It's almost impossible with no reference. There has to be a margin of failure factored in for mechanics and machines it's just understanding what the acceptable margin is. Keep in mind is 24/7 City as well.

Here's the stats for London Underground lift (elevator) availability.  Can't find escalators

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/lift-availability

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Interestingly, I think I’ve heard that the elevators replaced what should have been escalators and stairs. The provisions were built for such, but they did extra work to put in elevators instead. Now when they are broken, customers have to walk an entire avenue down to use the old-school method of locomotion—stairs or escalators or malfunctioning escalators.

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On 10/22/2017 at 3:10 PM, CenSin said:

Interestingly, I think I’ve heard that the elevators replaced what should have been escalators and stairs. The provisions were built for such, but they did extra work to put in elevators instead. Now when they are broken, customers have to walk an entire avenue down to use the old-school method of locomotion—stairs or escalators or malfunctioning escalators.

Correct, the Third Avenue side had already been half-built as a mirrored twin of the Lexington side for decades. The (MTA) could have saved a bunch of dough by simply building the other half, but they felt that elevators were a better option, for whatever reason. This isn't hearsay either; I saw dozens of photos of the incomplete side with my own eyes—the framework had already long since been in place.

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