The Crime of being short $2.75: Policing communities of color at the turnstile

[CenSin]

1 hour ago, RailRunRob said:

The message I'm getting is almost like telling someone to swim against you with an arm tied behind there back in some cases both arms tied And then actually judging there performance based on you swimming under normal conditions. How is this different?

The message I get from you is that this is an example of oppression. Another way to think about it is that people are not swimming with handicaps, but the better swimmers have gills and fins. Just adding perspective…

Realistically, people are not born equal. The treatment for this situation is usually between one of these two extremes:

1. Leave things as-is. A child born with whatever fortunes/privileges/talents keeps all of it. Those born with none just work from there.
2. Facilitate equalization by investing resources in an otherwise unremarkable child. Prevent well-off parents from mobilizing their resources for the benefit of their own children; redirect their resources to worse-off children.

[CDTA]

I don't understand how you can say there isn't an inherent bias when

A) At least one officer has been reprimanded for not ticketing enough blacks and hispanics for farebeating

and

B) None of southwest Brooklyn is targeted despite also being low income and woah, what a coincidence, those parts are all majority asian and white

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, CDTA said:

I don't understand how you can say there isn't an inherent bias when

A) At least one officer has been reprimanded for not ticketing enough blacks and hispanics for farebeating

and

B) None of southwest Brooklyn is targeted despite also being low income and woah, what a coincidence, those parts are all majority asian and white

Southwest Brooklyn encompasses several areas, including neighborhoods such as Bay Ridge, Dyker Heights, Bensonhurst, Bath Beach and Sea Gate, as well as Coney Island.  Bay Ridge is middle to upper middle class, and is especially well-to-do west of Third Avenue and around and along Shore Rd.  The same is true of Dyker Heights.  Coney Island meanwhile is quite poor overall with a large minority population and I'd say that cops are mainly there for safety purposes more than farebeating.  All of the stations in Bay Ridge along the  line don't suffer from farebeating from what I've seen, and more importantly, Bay Ridge is very safe, with very low crime, so you have to focus your resources where they are needed. A friend of mine is an NYPD cop who works in Bay Ridge and I can assure you that they don't spend a lot of time monitoring the subway stations there when there are more pressing issues. 

[RailRunRob]

1 hour ago, CenSin said:

The message I get from you is that this is an example of oppression. Another way to think about it is that people are not swimming with handicaps, but the better swimmers have gills and fins. Just adding perspective…

Realistically, people are not born equal. The treatment for this situation is usually between one of these two extremes:

1. Leave things as-is. A child born with whatever fortunes/privileges/talents keeps all of it. Those born with none just work from there.
2. Facilitate equalization by investing resources in an otherwise unremarkable child. Prevent well-off parents from mobilizing their resources for the benefit of their own children; redirect their resources to worse-off children.

Having gills and fins in society means life or death win or lose predator or prey. At least with a handicap, you might be able to compensate somehow.  People aren't born equal that's a reality been that way or another since the beginning not arguing that. More so the BS that's fed to people that everyone's on an even playing field that's what get's me. Then when we know it's not we judge and hit them with the infamous "Well I did it so can you... just work hard." Wouldnt it just be easier to just say it's not even? But then again no one wants to held accountable and not seem civil so.  I want my cake and hel* ya im going to eat it too.   Only thing I could say is build wealth and create your own.

[Dave2836]

The focus on the article had been alluded to a map of Brooklyn, highlighting the prevalence of arrests jn correlation, however:

Pg22 has a testimonial from Jose O. Who was trying to get from lower Manhattan to Queens, the origin station and destination station weren't even mentioned, not discounting his "story" includes two Boroughs which are not the focus of the article "Fare evasion arrests in BROOKLYN".

The article does not take into account the recividism of the population surrounding the Atlantic Avenue, Sutter Avenue stations.

Pg 24 mentions how arrests can adversely affect immigrants, so there is an allusion to believe that hardworking immigrants want to stay out of trouble, along with the maps on pg 7 and 9, the graph on pg 12, and chart on pg 14, a conclusion can be made the immigrant communities, primarily Asian and Latino have learned and taught each other to avoid committing foolish crimes.

This article is faulty at best and does a better job at propaganda than actually reporting relevant facts.

Not saying people aren't treated differently, afterall, Police Officers are less likely to arrest a single parent with their three children for fare evasion as opposed to a young adult. 

How about it's not about race or poverty, it's about culture.  NYC is such a great place, even the wild turkies living in Staten Island are protected by the law, when immigrants come over here from a far off land where the government is really corrupt and their neighbors and relatives vanish in the middle of the night without a word... really indoctrinates them into believing this is the land of opportunity.

[Deucey]

12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It's called being accountable, which our society doesn't seem to think matters anymore. At the end of the day, we can make all of the excuses as to how it isn't someone's fault that they jumped the turnstile, but if you do the crime then you have to pay for it. You seem to be advocating for a pass for these sorts of things and I think that sends the wrong message because if we're supposed to excuse this behavior then what's the point of anyone paying for their fare?  All of the other factors are secondary.  Sometimes I wonder if you live in reality.

I think accountability goes both ways. It's like the ethics question about the stoplight:

Quote

If you're stopped at a red light for 5 minutes, you're almost late to your destination, and there's no cross traffic or monitoring devices, do you wait for it to turn green, or do you drive through?"

====rest of my post follows. Can't get it out of the damned quote box====

Quote

Driving through is breaking the law, but is it reasonable to disobey the law when the situation created by the law causes a hardship by it's rigidness? (Rigidness being the long red.)

There's nothing wrong with your ethics saying to wait for the green, since that's default and the letter. But the unreasonableness of a law's/rule's rigidity in light of circumstances makes going through wrong but right - especially since that long red and no cross traffic makes it unreasonable.

So in this situation, yeah, the fine is the correct response; maybe jail is. The unreasonableness is a) the high disparity between citation and arrest of fare evaders, and b) the focal points of where the enforcement actions occur.

The accountability aspect is to basically ask: "Given the actual income levels of the people being caught for evasion, is our policy on fares in need of a re-evaluation?" I.E. are the fares too damn high? Would a subsidy program benefit this demographic and not cost us more than fare evasion? Is there a way we can fix finances so fares can stay level or be reduced for many or all vs few? Is there a way to design entry points to deter and minimize fare evasion? Are the penalties for fare evasion reasonable? Should we subject penalties to means-testing; include non-financial penalties (ex: community service, alternative sentencing)?

I think that's what @RailRunRob is getting at.

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, Dave2836 said:

The focus on the article had been alluded to a map of Brooklyn, highlighting the prevalence of arrests jn correlation, however:

Pg22 has a testimonial from Jose O. Who was trying to get from lower Manhattan to Queens, the origin station and destination station weren't even mentioned, not discounting his "story" includes two Boroughs which are not the focus of the article "Fare evasion arrests in BROOKLYN".

The article does not take into account the recividism of the population surrounding the Atlantic Avenue, Sutter Avenue stations.

Pg 24 mentions how arrests can adversely affect immigrants, so there is an allusion to believe that hardworking immigrants want to stay out of trouble, along with the maps on pg 7 and 9, the graph on pg 12, and chart on pg 14, a conclusion can be made the immigrant communities, primarily Asian and Latino have learned and taught each other to avoid committing foolish crimes.

This article is faulty at best and does a better job at propaganda than actually reporting relevant facts.

Not saying people aren't treated differently, afterall, Police Officers are less likely to arrest a single parent with their three children for fare evasion as opposed to a young adult. 

How about it's not about race or poverty, it's about culture.  NYC is such a great place, even the wild turkies living in Staten Island are protected by the law, when immigrants come over here from a far off land where the government is really corrupt and their neighbors and relatives vanish in the middle of the night without a word... really indoctrinates them into believing this is the land of opportunity.

Except that it is about race and poverty, since one race only makes up 1/3 of the poor but 2/3 of the arrests and citations.

[Dave2836]

15 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Except that it is about race and poverty, since one race only makes up 1/3 of the poor but 2/3 of the arrests and citations.

That's what the article is trying to make you believe.  If race was a primary factor and poverty was a secondary factor in consideration of these arrests, then howcome East Flatbush along the 2/5, Midwood and Prospect Lefferts Gardens along the Q/B, and the Barclay Center isn't lit up as  high arrest points?  There are enough passengers who fit the criteria of being Black, Latino, Asian, and also poor.

[Deucey]

13 minutes ago, Dave2836 said:

That's what the article is trying to make you believe.  If race was a primary factor and poverty was a secondary factor in consideration of these arrests, then howcome East Flatbush along the 2/5, Midwood and Prospect Lefferts Gardens along the Q/B, and the Barclay Center isn't lit up as  high arrest points?  There are enough passengers who fit the criteria of being Black, Latino, Asian, and also poor.

And yet in the hotspots cited, black people are 66% of the arrests and citations...

There's a lot of ways to dissect this report to challenge it's external validity, but you're not doing any of them. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

I think accountability goes both ways. It's like the ethics question about the stoplight:

====rest of my post follows. Can't get it out of the damned quote box====

lol... Well I strongly believe that the fares are indeed too high, especially when you compare what you get for them.  The problem with NYC right now is everything is becoming overpriced and the rate at which everything is going up is just crazy.  I honestly hadn't been giving it much thought until recently, particularly for things like food and other things I normally buy.  I just finalized a lease for a new apartment after negotiating back and forth via e-mail.  Roughly the same size as my old apartment and of course fully renovated, but for $1600. An apartment of the same size say five years ago or less could be had for $1100-1200.  Then you look at the cost of food now versus just a few years ago. Organic milk in some places is over $6.00 versus being around $4.00 not too long ago. Try going into a store with $5.00 and getting something of actual quality. I was thinking about this a few months ago and decided to experiment. The cheapest thing was a little over $3.00.  

The idea of providing these people with reduced fare passes doesn't sit well with me because I believe it opens the door to more feelings of entitlement.  If you keep giving people everything without them having to work for it, they don't appreciate it most of the time. It's like a lot of school kids now.  They get a free pass so they think that means they NEVER have to pay to get around the city, even on weekends or when they aren't in school, and this sense of entitlement lingers.

Some board members have also said that the fares are too high, or rather the rate at which they keep going up.  If you look at the rate of inflation versus salaries in this city overall, it's pretty easy to see why so many people are getting roommates and can't afford to live their own. lol

 

The problem is though, I don't see how the increase in the fares can slow down with everything else going up.  workers are already complaining that they are being priced out of the City, as many of them now commute from afar, and that puts more pressure on the  to pay higher salaries and benefits.  That money has to come from somewhere.  Couple that with their need for more funding for capital projects and so on and sooner or later the increases to them likely feel justified.

[Deucey]

8 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

lol... Well I strongly believe that the fares are indeed too high, especially when you compare what you get for them.  The problem with NYC right now is everything is becoming overpriced and the rate at which everything is going up is just crazy.  I honestly hadn't been giving it much thought until recently, particularly for things like food and other things I normally buy.  I just finalized a lease for a new apartment after negotiating back and forth via e-mail.  Roughly the same size as my old apartment and of course fully renovated, but for $1600. An apartment of the same size say five years ago or less could be had for $1100-1200.  Then you look at the cost of food now versus just a few years ago. Organic milk in some places is over $6.00 versus being around $4.00 not too long ago. Try going into a store with $5.00 and getting something of actual quality. I was thinking about this a few months ago and decided to experiment. The cheapest thing was a little over $3.00.  

The idea of providing these people with reduced fare passes doesn't sit well with me because I believe it opens the door to more feelings of entitlement.  If you keep giving people everything without them having to work for it, they don't appreciate it most of the time. It's like a lot of school kids now.  They get a free pass so they think that means they NEVER have to pay to get around the city, even on weekends or when they aren't in school, and this sense of entitlement lingers.

Some board members have also said that the fares are too high, or rather the rate at which they keep going up.  If you look at the rate of inflation versus salaries in this city overall, it's pretty easy to see why so many people are getting roommates and can't afford to live their own. lol

 

The problem is though, I don't see how the increase in the fares can slow down with everything else going up.  workers are already complaining that they are being priced out of the City, as many of them now commute from afar, and that puts more pressure on the  to pay higher salaries and benefits.  That money has to come from somewhere.  Couple that with their need for more funding for capital projects and so on and sooner or later the increases to them likely feel justified.

It's simple econ - scarcity + demand = profit, but even I wonder if the scarcity is artificially created to take more of our money.

I learned in the current real estate gig that the bulk of the rent increases and gentrification happened after the crash when buildings owned by Mom and pops were picked up by poachers at foreclosure and tax lien sales. So it has me picking at causation/correlation...

But even on the   I checked some comparisons for a reply in another thread I never posted, and it has  almost as much debt as the State of Texas. So I can see fares accelerating and maintenance and ops deteriorating because the service on $35 B in debt's gotta take up at least 30-70¢ of every $1 in fare revenue. And I'm guessing that since  debt is on the agency and not the division, that it's also the cause of these high ass tolls TBTA charges to go across water. (I'm guessing PA is just as bad, given its high ass tolls, Fat Ass using it to fix the Pulaski, and the low farebox recovery ratio for PATH.)

So that adds another accountability question: how does  fix it's debt problem?

Maybe it needs better lobbyists in Albany and Washington. LA MTA has great ones...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, Deucey said:

It's simple econ - scarcity + demand = profit, but even I wonder if the scarcity is artificially created to take more of our money.

I learned in the current real estate gig that the bulk of the rent increases and gentrification happened after the crash when buildings owned by Mom and pops were picked up by poachers at foreclosure and tax lien sales. So it has me picking at causation/correlation...

But even on the   I checked some comparisons for a reply in another thread I never posted, and it has  almost as much debt as the State of Texas. So I can see fares accelerating and maintenance and ops deteriorating because the service on $35 B in debt's gotta take up at least 30-70¢ of every $1 in fare revenue. And I'm guessing that since  debt is on the agency and not the division, that it's also the cause of these high ass tolls TBTA charges to go across water. (I'm guessing PA is just as bad, given its high ass tolls, Fat Ass using it to fix the Pulaski, and the low farebox recovery ratio for PATH.)

So that adds another accountability question: how does  fix it's debt problem?

Maybe it needs better lobbyists in Albany and Washington. LA MTA has great ones...

I've said previously that they need to do a better job of capitalizing on the real estate that they have.  We both know how expensive land is becoming across the five boroughs.  Developers are buying up anything and everything they can get their hands on and trying to beat out new zoning restrictions in some cases, or just cash in while the market remains hot (though it is starting to show signs of cooling with salaries still lagging), but that doesn't mean that prices have plummeted. Despite the amount of property that the has sold, they could still do even better, not to mention the property that they either can or fail to maximize on in terms of collecting rent.

[Deucey]

4 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I've said previously that they need to do a better job of capitalizing on the real estate that they have.  We both know how expensive land is becoming across the five boroughs.  Developers are buying up anything and everything they can get their hands on and trying to beat out new zoning restrictions in some cases, or just cash in while the market remains hot (though it is starting to show signs of cooling with salaries still lagging), but that doesn't mean that prices have plummeted. Despite the amount of property that the has sold, they could still do even better, not to mention the property that they either can or fail to maximize on in terms of collecting rent.

I still think that when you have 6.5 million on your trains every day, you should be taking more money in on advertising than present.

That said, I think OutFront/CBS is ripping straphangers off. If they can make money off billboards alongside rural highways that might see 30,000 vehicles a day with no guarantee that anyone saw the ad for Cracker Barrel being 30 miles away,  should be getting more money telling me about NBC's fall lineup when I'm waiting for a delayed  at Bowling Green or Sukanya joining FOX 5 when staring at the B26 sitting in the Ridgewood layover space 5 minutes after it should've departed.

There's just too many groupthinkers in the organization.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, Deucey said:

I still think that when you have 6.5 million on your trains every day, you should be taking more money in on advertising than present.

That said, I think OutFront/CBS is ripping straphangers off. If they can make money off billboards alongside rural highways that might see 30,000 vehicles a day with no guarantee that anyone saw the ad for Cracker Barrel being 30 miles away,  should be getting more money telling me about NBC's fall lineup when I'm waiting for a delayed  at Bowling Green or Sukanya joining FOX 5 when staring at the B26 sitting in the Ridgewood layover space 5 minutes after it should've departed.

There's just too many groupthinkers in the organization.

Well there's two problems. The  is not as aggressive as it could be when it comes to advertising  and they also limit what types of ads can be put up.  The focus is also always on Manhattan when it comes to new ways of advertising (notice that all of the bus shelters below 96th street have nice big bright screens),j but the the shelters in upper Manhattan and elsewhere are just the old bland ones.  That shouldn't be.

[Deucey]

Politically, I'm kinda like "We don't need Westboro or other bigoted political interest group ads going up" but ethically I'm like "free speech is sacrosanct."

But as a straphanger, seeing all those groupthinkers in power doing the bare minimum to provide adequate and affordable service - whilst refusing to imagine the absurd and make it practicable, as well as letting every bad behavior slide so long as it doesn't damage equipment makes me long for the day I have a car again. Tolls are becoming preferable to fares since a) I know when I'll be underway to my destination and b) when costs get higher than I'm okay with, I can switch gas brands and insurance companies and coverage.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 hours ago, Deucey said:

Politically, I'm kinda like "We don't need Westboro or other bigoted political interest group ads going up" but ethically I'm like "free speech is sacrosanct."

But as a straphanger, seeing all those groupthinkers in power doing the bare minimum to provide adequate and affordable service - whilst refusing to imagine the absurd and make it practicable, as well as letting every bad behavior slide so long as it doesn't damage equipment makes me long for the day I have a car again. Tolls are becoming preferable to fares since a) I know when I'll be underway to my destination and b) when costs get higher than I'm okay with, I can switch gas brands and insurance companies and coverage.

I hear ya. The whole thing is something I will definitely be thinking about because I too am becoming sick of the costs for what you get.

[CenSin]

7 hours ago, Deucey said:

Except that it is about race and poverty, since one race only makes up 1/3 of the poor but 2/3 of the arrests and citations.

Correlation does not equal causation.

[CenSin]

The likelier situation is that criminal behavior and poverty co-occur with race/ethnicity/nationality, and that law enforcement resources are allocated to correlate with areas of success (read: places where they can catch lawbreakers). They’re like spiders in a way; if there is nothing to catch for a while, they close up shop and find some place better to set up.

[Porter]

Speaking of the fares being too damned high, let's address the (other) elephant in the room:  contractors are paid too damned much and take too damned long to finish their projects, often only to do a slipshod job anyway. The unions have taken this too far, and at this point, I'd rather import contractors from China and pay by the job rather than by the hour. Seriously stop and consider how much work actually needs to be done on a given project, as well as how much time, money, and effort it should really take. There's an insulting disparity.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Skipper said:

Speaking of the fares being too damned high, let's address the (other) elephant in the room:  contractors are paid too damned much and take too damned long to finish their projects, often only to do a slipshod job anyway. The unions have taken this too far, and at this point, I'd rather import contractors from China and pay by the job rather than by the hour. Seriously stop and consider how much work actually needs to be done on a given project, as well as how much time, money, and effort it should really take. There's an insulting disparity.

Let's not go crazy... I do agree that unions drive up costs, BUT being a protectionist, I would never support importing workers from China. The Chinese may do it cheap, but their safety standards are nowhere near what ours are. Just think about all of the contaminated products that come from there... What I would favor though is hiring workers that were more skilled and requiring higher education.  The makes a point to pay top dollar for their project managers and other upper management positions citing the need to draw from a limited pool of talent. Well the same thing should apply for capital projects.

[Missabassie]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 11:48 PM, bobtehpanda said:

We all know the quota system exists. This is not a issue with shades of grey. Sure, people of color may be more likely to do it anyways, but it's about equal enforcement. I don't see this type of enforcement at Rockefeller Center, or 81st-MoNH, or 86 St-Lex, or Flushing-Main St the way I do in black and Hispanic neighborhoods, when those stations are much busier and definitely have people farebeating.

Precisely. Rich white folks do this shit all the time, no one bats an eye because they know they'll get away with it.

[Porter]

On 10/25/2017 at 12:09 AM, Missabassie said:

Precisely. Rich white folks do this shit all the time, no one bats an eye because they know they'll get away with it.

Hm, I've been around the more upscale Manhattan stations for years and haven't noticed any rich and/or white folks evade the fares. I suppose that's just anecdotal on my part, though.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

42 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Hm, I've been around the more upscale Manhattan stations for years and haven't noticed any rich and/or white folks evade the fares. I suppose that's just anecdotal on my part, though.

Oh please.  Whites don't do it on a large scale, but they do it as well.  The guy that I saw ducking under the turnstile at Central Park West and 81st street the other night sure as hell looked white.  If anything some people are just more discreet with it than others.  One kid that I tutor is white and he lives in an expensive building on the Upper West Side.  He thought he had lost his wallet a few weeks ago, so he jumped the turnstile to get home.  Turns out his wallet was hidden in his backpack, so yeah it does happen, but as I said earlier, the cops aren't out patrolling the subway stations like Central Park West, since crime isn't really an issue there, so of course he wasn't apprehended.  I'm pretty sure his parents bring in close to $250,000 a year with their combined salaries, so while they're aren't rich per se, they're not exactly hurting either.

[Deucey]

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Oh please.  Whites don't do it on a large scale, but they do it as well.  The guy that I saw ducking under the turnstile at Central Park West and 81st street the other night sure as hell looked white.  If anything some people are just more discreet with it than others.  One kid that I tutor is white and he lives in an expensive building on the Upper West Side.  He thought he had lost his wallet a few weeks ago, so he jumped the turnstile to get home.  Turns out his wallet was hidden in his backpack, so yeah it does happen, but as I said earlier, the cops aren't out patrolling the subway stations like Central Park West, since crime isn't really an issue there, so of course he wasn't apprehended.  I'm pretty sure his parents bring in close to $250,000 a year with their combined salaries, so while they're aren't rich per se, they're not exactly hurting either.

Most insidious myth in America is that one about minorities being more crime prone than whites. Taking out the racial bias of covering crimes, the only reason the myth exists is policing - minority areas have more police patrolling, so we get arrested more.

One of my best friends in high school and college - an ex-Mormon, was the biggest narcotics and meth distro in Northern California. Go-between of the Mexican cartels, Triads and the Russians. Had Gs of cash hidden in trees just in case he ever needed to make a run for it. Would even deliver product and collect receipts in person. Cops knew who the dealers were; some even bought off him for personal use. Some were even bought off by him.

How’d he get caught? Traffic stop for doing 80 in a 65 on the Cal-Nevada border. CHP lit him up; Nevada Highway Patrol had to do the citation. NHP has a K-9 that smelled something, and arrested for trafficking across state lines.

Add to it all the grow houses and meth labs in the suburbs; parents selling Rx pills for extra cash, and my favorite, FBI stats showing similar murder rates between whites and minorities, and it’s evident every race’s shit stinks.

White people just don’t get caught as often since the aforementioned myth is pervasive enough to cause biased policy.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

35 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Most insidious myth in America is that one about minorities being more crime prone than whites. Taking out the racial bias of covering crimes, the only reason the myth exists is policing - minority areas have more police patrolling, so we get arrested more.

One of my best friends in high school and college - an ex-Mormon, was the biggest narcotics and meth distro in Northern California. Go-between of the Mexican cartels, Triads and the Russians. Had Gs of cash hidden in trees just in case he ever needed to make a run for it. Would even deliver product and collect receipts in person. Cops knew who the dealers were; some even bought off him for personal use. Some were even bought off by him.

How’d he get caught? Traffic stop for doing 80 in a 65 on the Cal-Nevada border. CHP lit him up; Nevada Highway Patrol had to do the citation. NHP has a K-9 that smelled something, and arrested for trafficking across state lines.

Add to it all the grow houses and meth labs in the suburbs; parents selling Rx pills for extra cash, and my favorite, FBI stats showing similar murder rates between whites and minorities, and it’s evident every race’s shit stinks.

White people just don’t get caught as often since the aforementioned myth is pervasive enough to cause biased policy.

There's a lot of truth to what you're saying. In fact one of the things that the NYPD has been noting is that more drug dealers are setting up in safe, low-crime, quiet neighborhoods because they know that cops won't patrol as much, and it allows them to go about their business without being watched. A few years ago there was one of the biggest drug busts in NYC right in Riverdale, near Broadway, just steps away from tony Fieldston and Horace Mann School.  They had set up in a non-discreet building and were dealing like crazy. People in that part of Riverdale were in shock. I just chuckled since a lot of safe upper middle class neighborhoods are suffering from the same nonsense. Staten Island is the richest borough, and has the biggest drug problem out of the boroughs.  Not a coincidence.

In white areas, the main difference is things like drug dealing is done indoors, while in the minority areas, you see it right on the corner in some cases.  Much more blatant.  When I lived back in Southern Brooklyn as a teen, I would hang out at one of my friend's house on Fridays and we'd all have tequila shots or booze up.  The area was mainly white (this group of friends were mainly white and my buddy Dave was the only Asian in the group), but if you wanted 420, Dave could make a phone call and have some delivered in minutes, so basically there's a lot going on all over.  Just a question of what is seen and what isn't.