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Petition to allow open strollers on nyc buses


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56 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Listen say whatever you like THESE young people with all these Jordans they represent your community, not mine. These are the folks coming up after you right? Your replacements? You're very opinionated about it then reach out what does that say about the future? This isn't the 1st time I've heard this type of talk maybe it's time to find a new community away from the heathens I'll leave that for you to sort out sounds personal.  You saying there's no need for strollers isn't law in the real world. You think the vaccinations that you received this child or that computer that you're on right now came into full wish from personal truths? The world moves forward objectively or through money, power or Influence. Will you ever get that opportunity to have the final word? What makes your world better than someone else? Whatsoever? Umm.. When you get to Lhota's level let know how the job is. Then be accountable for telling people the reason you don't want strollers on buses. There's a process for telling people no in a Civil hierarchy and it's not based on Human perspective/perception. Do the study do the report then say the reasons.  "I say so and get it together don't fly".  Again I'm not for or against but the process is the process. 

Yeah, you're most certainly for having open strollers on buses; your little passive aggressive comments here portray it all too perfectly.... Trying to attack what you perceive to be my "community", preaching this bullshit about having the final word & getting to Lhota's level (as if that's some end goal of mine on a transit forum), going on & on about the world moving forward (which is something else you do in other discussions btw - anybody that opines about something that isn't exactly on your wavelength amounts to them not being progressive thinkers, have you tell it)..... This whole objectivity spiel of yours is nothing more than a smokescreen as to not professing any biased opinions "for or against".....

This isn't about no, my world being better than anyone else's.... This isn't the first time you tried to spin this into some better or worse shit either, commencing your commentary in this thread inquiring about measures of success.... Never said anything about "no need for strollers" either - What I said was, there is no NEED for open strollers on a bus whatsoever.... Way to display your objectivity there.

Nobody's arguing what the process is or isn't, so miss me with that red herring argument....

Someone that's supposed to be neutral doesn't make these type of comments you've just made, to someone that's clearly on one side of the fence with this open strollers on buses topic .... But keep on with this I'm objective, I'm not for or against, I don't know anything about anything act.....

 

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1 hour ago, RailRunRob said:

We own in Prospect Heights I have 2 other friends that just purchased in Parkslope and Bedstuy respectively. Again read any study on planning and Millennial patterns for all the differences that's throughline. Go to LIC, Dumbo, Parkslope, Prospect Heights there are tons of families and kids 30's and 40's. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not happening. Some of that is also based on younger folks not leaving cities the same way their parents did part is like you stated being closer to home base with work. MassTransit is a cornerstone of these shifts all i'm saying. I'm just trying to look at the Bus topic objectively. I see people with babies getting on buses occasionally around the neighborhood who are any of us not to hear the argument out at least.  At the end of the day, Time will tell we'll see what happens over the decade or two.

I've been to those areas and mass transit isn't the cornerstone to those shifts. Places like LIC, Dumbo, and Park Slope, and Prospect Heights are sold based on their close proximity to Manhattan. Developers are going as far as to turn everything north of Grand Army Plaza into Manhattan just appeal to young people who want a single life in the city. Raising a family was never taken in consideration when those luxury apartments  were built because Millennials believe that the traditional family is dead in the 21st Century Progressive world and taught to think that way by the politicians who espouse this rhetoric.

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3 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Open strollers on buses? Seriously? Ain't buses over crowded as it is and this b.s. petition comes up? Just because they're allowed open on the subway, doesn't mean they should be allowed on in the bus.

My, how times have changed. Women's standards for men have decreased. Now they're making babies with men who have 50 pairs of Jordan's and a 7 day unlimited they probably got from the food stamp office. I don't mean to go off topic, but there are some women who will stand by the entrance to a subway station that doesn't have an elevator will look at you like, "please help me get this stroller downstairs, I can't do it. It's too heavy."

They exist and I walk right past them. Women in NYC are just incredible. Self-centered, "victims" who think all men are creeps, but they expect you to "help" them. GTFOH.

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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, you're most certainly for having open strollers on buses; your little passive aggressive comments here portray it all too perfectly.... Trying to attack what you perceive to be my "community", preaching this bullshit about having the final word & getting to Lhota's level (as if that's some end goal of mine on a transit forum), going on & on about the world moving forward (which is something else you do in other discussions btw - anybody that opines about something that isn't exactly on your wavelength amounts to them not being progressive thinkers, have you tell it)..... This whole objectivity spiel of yours is nothing more than a smokescreen as to not professing any biased opinions "for or against".....

This isn't about no, my world being better than anyone else's.... This isn't the first time you tried to spin this into some better or worse shit either, commencing your commentary in this thread inquiring about measures of success.... Never said anything about "no need for strollers" either - What I said was, there is no NEED for open strollers on a bus whatsoever.... Way to display your objectivity there.

Nobody's arguing what the process is or isn't, so miss me with that red herring argument....

Someone that's supposed to be neutral doesn't make these type of comments you've just made, to someone that's clearly on one side of the fence with this open strollers on buses topic .... But keep on with this I'm objective, I'm not for or against, I don't know anything about anything act.....

 

 Missed the point again. So simply state it as your option and keep it moving.If you feel the Buses are too crowded and slow say that. Not about some kids and jordans and on about responsibility then stating it as law and getting aggressive at the same time that's how I perceived it? So yeah what make's your option valid over anyone else's.? Wouldnt you come it the same way? All I said was maybe it's someone that should be heard nothing more nothing less. My apologies you did say open strollers okay let me hear the points on that as well. It's not about the strollers it's about the process and immediate defensiveness this how it is deal with it energy same issue I have with VG8 at times.Communication is key so if I'm wrong let me know  But the respect is there none the less. Your right it's a forum and maybe that's my issue what I'm not realizing is that the stuff that some people don't get to say in the actual world they voice it here so maybe I shouldn't take it so literally. People possibly don't want to hear another point of view.  Live and let live.   So for the record, I am neutral on the bus topic just not on the process how the arguments being made. You can point to all the young Mother's out there not making the right choices but remember there's going to come a topic that affects you in some way. I'm sure broad generalizations isn't the way you want it started by the people saying Thumbs-up or Thumbs down.

Edited by RailRunRob
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3 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Point the missed again. So simply state it as your option and keep it moving.If you feel the Buses are too crowded and slow say that. Not about some kids and jordans and on about responsibility then stating it as law and getting aggressive at the same time that's how I perceived it? So yeah what make's your option valid over anyone else's.? Wouldnt you come it the same way? All I said was maybe it's someone that should be heard nothing more nothing less. My apologies you did say open strollers okay let me hear the points on that as well. It's not about the strollers it's about the process and immediate defensiveness this how it is deal with it energy same issue I have with VG8 at times.Communication is key so if I'm wrong let me know  But the respect is there none the less. Your right it's a forum and maybe that's my issue what I'm not realizing is that the stuff that some people don't get to say in the actual world they voice it here so maybe I shouldn't take it so literally. People possibly don't want to hear another point of view.  Live and let live.   So for the record, I am neutral on the bus topic just not on the process how the arguments being made. You can point to all the young Mother's out there not making the right choices but remember there's going to come a topic that affects you in some way. I'm sure broad generalizations isn't the way you want it started by the people saying Thumbs-up or Thumbs down.

Oh BS. You are not neutral on the topic. You're passing judgment on other peoples' opinions and trying to sound high and mighty yet again. Maybe you just don't realize it, but you are with that crap at the end... "...but remember there's going to come a topic that affects you." 

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9 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

I've been to those areas and mass transit isn't the cornerstone to those shifts. Places like LIC, Dumbo, and Park Slope, and Prospect Heights are sold based on their close proximity to Manhattan. Developers are going as far as to turn everything north of Grand Army Plaza into Manhattan just appeal to young people who want a single life in the city. Raising a family was never taken in consideration when those luxury apartments  were built because Millennials believe that the traditional family is dead in the 21st Century Progressive world and taught to think that way by the politicians who espouse this rhetoric.

There are a lot of two-three family houses in my area same in Parkslope and Bedstuy but your right Frankin and Washington they didn't get Vanderbilt (yet!) there are a lot of young people moving in but more of that is Downtown with the high-rises and most if not all of those are rentals. There's still many quiet enclaves and kids play at the park same as when we grew up.  But you have a point were here because of proximity to the City 15 mins to Bowling Green on a good day. WhitePlains was on the table as well be we wanted to be closer to everything. But I say that to say people travel within our neighborhoods all the time I know people that take the bus to the coffee shop we have a Barnes and Noble on 7th ave i've taken the B69 there one or twice with my Daugther older at the time when we didn't want to drive. Kinda the same growing up in Riverdale as well.. So I see people on Vanderbilt and 7th ave with Strollers getting off and on every so often. We just opened a small space in Dumbo on Jay street I see alot of kids that way as well. LIC is more rentals.  But there's more and more to do within one's neighborhood I don't remember the last I ate in the city.  This was the case before the Suburban expansion and the interstate people had a Butcher a Bakery, Movie theater all in their neighborhood. I feel people will start to use Mass transit more to move around within the general area as more business are centered back around the neighborhood mothers included in those riders. I see it on the on my local buses B45,48,67,69 more people are riding 45 for sure. Traditions.. Traditions all we can do it try to instill them in our kids and teach them how to think for themselves. We had our time they'll have there's the way of the world I suppose hopefully traditional isn't fully dead as we think.

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31 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Oh BS. You are not neutral on the topic. You're passing judgment on other peoples' opinions and trying to sound high and mighty yet again. Maybe you just don't realize it, but you are with that crap at the end... "...but remember there's going to come a topic that affects you." 

It's called submission try it.  I'm okay with being wrong always something new to learn. Problem with you is your not used to being checked. Sometimes you may say something and someone might not agree it's called life. I get checked all the time if people don't agree and they don't always.  We can coexist its not a problem. The world would be a boring place if we didn't.

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30 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

It's called submission try it.  I'm okay with being wrong always something new to learn. Problem with you is your not used to being checked. Sometimes you may say something and someone might not agree it's called life. I get checked all the time if people don't agree and they don't always.  We can coexist its not a problem. The world would be a boring place if we didn't.

Submission to what? Make up your mind. One minute you're neutral and the next you're checking people. I don't care what your position is, just own it.

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3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Submission to what? Make up your mind. One minute you're neutral and the next you're checking people. I don't care what your position is, just own it.

Come on buddy seriously I have to break this down?. Submission to the fact that someone else might have a different point of view from yourself without getting all worked up?  Not starting everything from a point of someone's trying to get over and taking from me. And maybe it's fine to co-exist with someone that doesn't see the world exactly as you do.? Man, maybe I have been speaking Japanese or I might as well be.  The stance has been the entire thread. Hear the Argument, See the data and make the decision. Show me where I didn't say that or come from that point?  The judging started after the noise came in... Jordan, Young mothers and get yourself together talk entered. Never did I hear anything about overall ridership how there affected which what I was expecting.  Just zero to sixty "These people are asking too much"." Just Get it together get a taxi". I mean geez slow down let's hear the argument 1st....   That's where I started to go in my bag and say "hey what about this?" "Is this an objective way of looking at it ?"... every action has a reaction.  As for checking maybe that was the wrong word shouldn't have used checked. I probably should have said you're not used to pushback or a counter-argument. I push and get pushed back day in and day out. Art of the deal give and take compromise, the Socratic process. But it always comes from a point of respect, Respect for the deal respect for the game. But people can co-existing can if that's the starting point. Isn't that the world?  I don't see how im not solid on my positions. Back your sh*t up with quantifiable data and tangible shi*. That's been our back and forth for years. Let's not take our eyes off the ball and get distracted. 

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7 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Come on buddy seriously I have to break this down?. Submission to the fact that someone else might have a different point of view from yourself without getting all worked up?  Not starting everything from a point of someone's trying to get over and taking from me. And maybe it's fine to co-exist with someone that doesn't see the world exactly as you do.? Man, maybe I have been speaking Japanese or I might as well be.  The stance has been the entire thread. Hear the Argument, See the data and make the decision. Show me where I didn't say that or come from that point?  The judging started after the noise came in... Jordan, Young mothers and get yourself together talk entered. Never did I hear anything about overall ridership how there affected which what I was expecting.  Just zero to sixty "These people are asking too much"." Just Get it together get a taxi". I mean geez slow down let's hear the argument 1st....   That's where I started to go in my bag and say "hey what about this?" "Is this an objective way of looking at it ?"... every action has a reaction.  As for checking maybe that was the wrong word shouldn't have used checked. I probably should have said you're not used to pushback or a counter-argument. I push and get pushed back day in and day out. Art of the deal give and take compromise, the Socratic process. But it always comes from a point of respect, Respect for the deal respect for the game. But people can co-existing can if that's the starting point. Isn't that the world?  I don't see how im not solid on my positions. Back your sh*t up with quantifiable data and tangible shi*. That's been our back and forth for years. Let's not take our eyes off the ball and get distracted. 

You should speak for yourself. You don't even ride buses. I do on a daily basis. If a family needs five seats but only pays for two, they need to take a cab. Other riders that pay for each seat can't sit. Common courtesy works both ways. You don't need to look at stats for that. Common sense stuff... 

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6 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

 Missed the point again. So simply state it as your option and keep it moving.If you feel the Buses are too crowded and slow say that. Not about some kids and jordans and on about responsibility then stating it as law and getting aggressive at the same time that's how I perceived it? So yeah what make's your option valid over anyone else's.? Wouldnt you come it the same way? All I said was maybe it's someone that should be heard nothing more nothing less. My apologies you did say open strollers okay let me hear the points on that as well. It's not about the strollers it's about the process and immediate defensiveness this how it is deal with it energy same issue I have with VG8 at times.Communication is key so if I'm wrong let me know  But the respect is there none the less. Your right it's a forum and maybe that's my issue what I'm not realizing is that the stuff that some people don't get to say in the actual world they voice it here so maybe I shouldn't take it so literally. People possibly don't want to hear another point of view.  Live and let live.   So for the record, I am neutral on the bus topic just not on the process how the arguments being made. You can point to all the young Mother's out there not making the right choices but remember there's going to come a topic that affects you in some way. I'm sure broad generalizations isn't the way you want it started by the people saying Thumbs-up or Thumbs down.

You're running with the Jordan's shit like my entire viewpoint is centered around that.... Stop with the disingenuousness & intellectual dishonesty already.

State what as my option.... You likely mean opinion, and the side of the coin I'm on in this issue was as clear as day (categorized by said "aggression"... leaving ZERO doubt)... I kept it moving - then you came along with this appeal to sympathy crap & being covert about the affinity you truly have when it comes to this topic..... The act like you're not swayed one way or another is the issue I have with your posts here..... Don't (logically) try to tell me that you're neutral, but at the same time, tell me that there's going to come a topic that affects me in some way... That is masqueraded bias; trying to shame me into seeing things their (these petitioners') way - "nothing more, nothing less".... I say this a lot offline & I'll say it now - Shaming tactics don't work on me.... I told you from jump street - "And don't bother with trying to get me to see their side of the picture because it's simply not going to happen".... You kept trying to do just that, so you got the successive responses you got.....

Parental responsibility is a large part of the problem when open strollers on public buses has to become a thing.... I don't see what you don't get about that & I'm not going to excuse it (which is how you're coming across right now)...... I'm going to say it & I don't give one hot cup of f*** who doesn't like it or how tactless & unapologetic it is - When you have to transport stroller aged children onto a bus, you're FAILING as a parent.... Mothers don't like to hear that, but fathers have to hear how much of deadbeat dads they are time & time & damn time again..... When are the mothers ever wrong? Instead, things must be shuffled & rearranged to make their f***-ups appear (because life is all about illusions with women) less than as such.... Then when the kid ends getting sick on the bus, these same types petitioning for this to happen will be the first to want to sue the MTA.... I'm not living & let live when I have a problem with this gynocentric ass society which doesn't have to be this way.... Look champ, when boxers become obsolete & manties becomes the accepted norm for the male gender, then get back to me about living & let live.....

If i feel the buses are too crowded? That should be obvious to anyone that utilizes buses the way I have in this city over the years & shared my extensive viewpoints on buses/bus routes on this forum over what, a little over a decade now.... I could have kept it strictly transit related (if that's the point you're making with this), but quite frankly, I see this issue as being bigger than being confined to a transit only issue.... I'm attacking the entitled attitude of these women in question, in case it's not quite registering with you....

There's going to be a topic that affects me in some way? Also obvious.....These cuts & the declination of quality of service on these buses has affected me.... It's why I'm doing as much driving as I am now.... Then I have to read about some women petitioning about open strollers on NYC's buses? I'm like get ALL the way the f*** out of here with that.....

This is not about disrespecting you, Rob (if I can call you that?) so the feeling is mutual.... This issue is MUCH larger than this mere discourse the two (well, the handful) of us are having on here....

Edited by B35 via Church
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17 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

I would also add that part of the personal responsibility angle is finding a suitable, foldable stroller. Strollers aren't even that expensive, and it's not like there are less foldable strollers than there were decades ago.

Have open strollers end up becoming a thing on these buses & it's going to open the floodgates.... What's to stop the next person(s) from petitioning to have open shopping carts as being permissible (which is much more commonly done as it is)....

Feeding into your point, and with the consensus of us in there that are "nay" with this issue, the million dollar question is obviously - Why do the strollers HAVE to be open?!

 

15 hours ago, Deucey said:

I must be the only person here who's ridden buses in all 5 boroughs and three downstate counties in the (MTA) service area and have NEVER seen anyone fold a stroller.

Most people I notice tend to fold them before they get on the bus.... Off the cuff, I can't recall seeing anyone undergoing the process of folding a stroller while already on the bus (meaning, they entered the bus with the stroller open)...... I have not seen an open stroller on a bus here in NYC in a good while & I would like it to remain that way.....

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12 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

You're running with the Jordan's shit like my entire viewpoint is centered around that.... Stop with the disingenuousness & intellectual dishonesty already.

State what as my option.... You likely mean opinion, and the side of the coin I'm on in this issue was as clear as day (categorized by said "aggression"... leaving ZERO doubt)... I kept it moving - then you came along with this appeal to sympathy crap & being covert about the affinity you truly have when it comes to this topic..... The act like you're not swayed one way or another is the issue I have with your posts here..... Don't (logically) try to tell me that you're neutral, but at the same time, tell me that there's going to come a topic that affects me in some way... That is masqueraded bias; trying to shame me into seeing things their (these petitioners') way - "nothing more, nothing less".... I say this a lot offline & I'll say it now - Shaming tactics don't work on me.... I told you from jump street - "And don't bother with trying to get me to see their side of the picture because it's simply not going to happen".... You kept trying to do just that, so you got the successive responses you got.....

Parental responsibility is a large part of the problem when open strollers on public buses has to become a thing.... I don't see what you don't get about that & I'm not going to excuse it (which is how you're coming across right now)...... I'm going to say it & I don't give one hot cup of f*** who doesn't like it or how tactless & unapologetic it is - When you have to transport stroller aged children onto a bus, you're FAILING as a parent.... Mothers don't like to hear that, but fathers have to hear how much of deadbeat dads they are time & time & damn time again..... When are the mothers ever wrong? Instead, things must be shuffled & rearranged to make their f***-ups appear (because life is all about illusions with women) less than as such.... Then when the kid ends getting sick on the bus, these same types petitioning for this to happen will be the first to want to sue the MTA.... I'm not living & let live when I have a problem with this gynocentric ass society which doesn't have to be this way.... Look champ, when boxers become obsolete & manties becomes the accepted norm for the male gender, then get back to me about living & let live.....

If i feel the buses are too crowded? That should be obvious to anyone that utilizes buses the way I have in this city over the years & shared my extensive viewpoints on buses/bus routes on this forum over what, a little over a decade now.... I could have kept it strictly transit related (if that's the point you're making with this), but quite frankly, I see this issue as being bigger than being confined to a transit only issue.... I'm attacking the entitled attitude of these women in question, in case it's not quite registering with you....

There's going to be a topic that affects me in some way? Also obvious.....These cuts & the declination of quality of service on these buses has affected me.... It's why I'm doing as much driving as I am now.... Then I have to read about some women petitioning about open strollers on NYC's buses? I'm like get ALL the way the f*** out of here with that.....

This is not about disrespecting you, Rob (if I can call you that?) so the feeling is mutual.... This issue is MUCH larger than this mere discourse the two (well, the handful) of us are having on here....

Listen I hear you. And by all means, I'm definitely not expecting you to be apologetic for anything I'm not trying to push Christianity here It's your point of view I respect it.So if I come off that way it isn't intentional. It was the parental responsibility standards that caught me off guard a bit. And we escalated from there. Im parent of two that hasn't really been my personal experience my families or the people around me. I don't know if that's hard to believe or if's that good or bad. Not to take away from your point again that might be your experience so I can't diminish that. And I can't say that as a parent we don't have obligations and responsibilities to our children. I took it has a broad generalization was it communicated like that? probably not. But I'm going to practice what I preach and just submit maybe it's something I don't fully understand. I was expecting it to be more transit orientated. I'm not fully acclimated to the bus system but I do see women riding with children in my neighborhood. So could there be Opportunities to allow such a policy on certain routes maybe off-peak hours? I don't know but I'm trying to come from a point of having an open mind and asking the question because I don't know and don't have pre limitations what do they do in other places?. The world I come from and the principles I encourage with my team and business. Everythings a possibility, never underestimate or over-evaluate It could end you. So maybe it's weird, foreign and naïve to some but just my process I ask questions.. I don't mean any disrespect by it. Hopefully, my POV adds another perspective to the topics and chats even if different. But yeah the respects there even if we go back and forth a bit on a few debates.  

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14 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You should speak for yourself. You don't even ride buses. I do on a daily basis. If a family needs five seats but only pays for two, they need to take a cab. Other riders that pay for each seat can't sit. Common courtesy works both ways. You don't need to look at stats for that. Common sense stuff... 

Arent we talking about a Mother with a stroller? We're talking a pack now? That scenario's a bit extreme I'm not pushing for social charity. I'm saying hear the argument out then say no.

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4 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

Listen I hear you. And by all means, I'm definitely not expecting you to be apologetic for anything I'm not trying to push Christianity here It's your point of view I respect it.So if I come off that way it isn't intentional. It was the parental responsibility standards that caught me off guard a bit. And we escalated from there. Im parent of two that hasn't really been my personal experience my families or the people around me. I don't know if that's hard to believe or if's that good or bad. Not to take away from your point again that might be your experience so I can't diminish that. And I can't say that as a parent we don't have obligations and responsibilities to our children. I took it has a broad generalization was it communicated like that? probably not. But I'm going to practice what I preach and just submit maybe it's something I don't fully understand. I was expecting it to be more transit orientated. I'm not fully acclimated to the bus system but I do see women riding with children in my neighborhood. So could there be Opportunities to allow such a policy on certain routes maybe off-peak hours? I don't know but I'm trying to come from a point of having an open mind and asking the question because I don't know and don't have pre limitations what do they do in other places?. The world I come from and the principles I encourage with my team and business. Everythings a possibility, never underestimate or over-evaluate It could end you. So maybe it's weird, foreign and naïve to some but just my process I ask questions.. I don't mean any disrespect by it. Hopefully, my POV adds another perspective to the topics and chats even if different. But yeah the respects there even if we go back and forth a bit on a few debates.  

With what bus routes? Almost all the current routes in existence are crowded throughout the day (and even into the night). Some of the mid-ridership routes and the dinkies are exempt, but those are a very small portion of ridership. I'm pretty sure the MTA would not allow this because if enough people complain about flagging, more buses would have to be added.

 

We cannot accommodate every single request. We don't have time, resources, or the patience to do this. These groups of people, not only with strollers, but with other bulky stuff such as carts and bikes, are a minority of the riding public (although in some areas it may be more prevalent), and it should stay that way. To what cost are we all going to be open minded? You would only please a few and royally piss off the rest.

Additionally, annoyance like this do cause people to stop taking buses and subways altogether, either directly or indirectly. 

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18 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

With what bus routes? Almost all the current routes in existence are crowded throughout the day (and even into the night). Some of the mid-ridership routes and the dinkies are exempt, but those are a very small portion of ridership. I'm pretty sure the MTA would not allow this because if enough people complain about flagging, more buses would have to be added.

 

We cannot accommodate every single request. We don't have time, resources, or the patience to do this. These groups of people, not only with strollers, but with other bulky stuff such as carts and bikes, are a minority of the riding public (although in some areas it may be more prevalent), and it should stay that way. To what cost are we all going to be open minded? You would only please a few and royally piss off the rest.

Additionally, annoyance like this do cause people to stop taking buses and subways altogether, either directly or indirectly. 

And you know what I could respect that answer! Look at the question's I asked up thread. What's the % of riders with this issue and how does it affect general ridership? I don't know the answer but If the MTA can't accommodate this then they can't. But the issue should be looked into at least and given an official answer. My point from the beginning. If I not going to do business with you im at least going to look you in your eyes and say it face to face.

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1 hour ago, RailRunRob said:

Arent we talking about a Mother with a stroller? We're talking a pack now? That scenario's a bit extreme I'm not pushing for social charity. I'm saying hear the argument out then say no.

I'm talking about a pack because that scenario is usually what I see when I see "a mother with a stroller". In short, it's rarely just a mother with her stroller but rather much more than that. There's a legitimate reason the (MTA) doesn't allow unfolded strollers. They're a liability issue. If someone trips and falls, they're going to look to sue the (MTA). Why? Because the first thing they're going to argue is this wouldn't have happened if the (MTA) wouldn't have allowed it. The mother with the stroller will not be penalized despite being the one causing the problem. The (MTA) can ill afford more lawsuits on top what they're already dealing with.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'm talking about a pack because that scenario is usually what I see when I see "a mother with a stroller". In short, it's rarely just a mother with her stroller but rather much more than that. There's a legitimate reason the (MTA) doesn't allow unfolded strollers. They're a liability issue. If someone trips and falls, they're going to look to sue the (MTA). Why? Because the first thing they're going to argue is this wouldn't have happened if the (MTA) wouldn't have allowed it. The mother with the stroller will not be penalized despite being the one causing the problem. The (MTA) can ill afford more lawsuits on top what they're already dealing with.

I hardly ever see that on my local bus routes Subway yes!. Sorry not saying it doesn't happen just not my experience on this end. Furthermore, I'm going off some of the comments on the petition itself.   Read for yourself I don't think they all fit your description.

 

https://www.thepetitionsite.com/879/816/546/

Edited by RailRunRob
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As for liability could you argue babies are safer in strollers? I am playing Devils Advocate on that one there's three sides to everything.  Capacity issues is the best argument stick to that. 

Edited by RailRunRob
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18 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

As for liability could you argue babies are safer in strollers? I am playing Devils Advocate on that one there's three sides to everything.  Capacity issues is the best argument stick to that. 

No I'm not sticking to that. I'm pretty sure that's why the (MTA) doesn't allow them open in the first place.

 

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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2 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

And you know what I could respect that answer! Look at the question's I asked up thread. What's the % of riders with this issue and how does it affect general ridership? I don't know the answer but If the MTA can't accommodate this then they can't. But the issue should be looked into at least and given an official answer. My point from the beginning. If I not going to do business with you im at least going to look you in your eyes and say it face to face.

With how huge some strollers are, in the open position they could easily take up the space of two to four standees. That's why they're banned today. Whatever ridership we're depressing with this is definitely not worth losing capacity on overcrowded bus routes.

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12 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

No I'm not sticking to that. I'm pretty sure that's why the (MTA) doesn't allow them.open in the first place.

 

 

11 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

With how huge some strollers are, in the open position they could easily take up the space of two to four standees. That's why they're banned today. Whatever ridership we're depressing with this is definitely not worth losing capacity on overcrowded bus routes.

If that's the case then the MTA should just communicate that so people understand, and don't feel as if this is done out of spite.  Problem solved. 

Edited by RailRunRob
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3 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

 

If that's the case then the MTA should just communicate that so people understand, and don't feel as if this is done out of spite.  Problem solved. 

It should be pretty obvious. If your stroller blocks the entire aisle, where are people supposed to go? These people are just entitled and stupid because they know that those strollers block up the aisle and every time they get on, B/O's refuse to move the bus, citing that very reason, and then they look bewildered like how dare the driver make an announcement over the loud speaker to fold up my stroller. We had a lady on the M86SBS with the same nonsense.

We sat there until she realized who the driver was talking to. Hello, you're the only one with a stroller on the bus... <_<

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