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DOT's Bus Lane Trickery


BrooklynBus

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1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

I'm sorry, but the real problem is that there are too many cars on the road. We can't continue to have people ditching the buses for cars. It's unsustainable. And yes we do need to expand SBS and its features to more routes, but this should not be a long-term solution to not building subways, which is the real reason why I think the (MTA) likes this. Despite the added costs, it's still a lot cheaper than building subways. We know that for a fact. In cases where SBS exists, it allows the (MTA) to say hey listen we have this "bus rapid transit" that's as good as a subway without actually building one. We don't need to spend monies on elevators either because buses are ADA accessible. I think this is the real danger everyone should focus on. Buses CANNOT replace subways. They can supplement them though. I hope people realize what's going on here.

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1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'm sorry, but the real problem is that there are too many cars on the road. We can't continue to have people ditching their buses for cars. It's unsustainable. And yes we do need to expand SBS and its features to more routes, but this should not be a long-term solution to not building subways, which is the real reason why I think the (MTA) likes this. Despite the added costs, it's still a lot cheaper than building subways. We know that for sure fact. In cases where SBS exists it allows the (MTA) to say hey listen we have this "bus rapid transit" that's as good as a subway without actually building one. We don't need to spend monies on elevators either because buses are ADA accessible. I think this is the real danger everyone should focus on. Buses CANNOT replace subways. They can supplement them though. I hope people realize what's going on here.

Yes there are too many cars on the road. But SBS will do nothing to get people out of their cars to use buses. DOT and the MTA even with all their lies, omissions, and misleading statements, have never made any predictions as to how many will switch from car to bus because of SBS. That is because they know that no one will. 

SBS will save at most 15 minutes. Those who are currently using their car instead of the bus make their trip more than 15 minutes quicker than if they took the bus. If the trip takes 45 minutes by car, even with SBS and a longer car trip, the car will still be quicker than SBS especially if more than one bus is needed. 

As far as the rest of your post, I agree that Buses cannot replace subways but before we expand SBS, the MTA and DOT need to prove its worth the expense. So far they have not. There needs to be a moratorium on new SBS routes until MetroCard is replaced. To invest many millions of dollars in new fare machines that will be obsolete in five years if MetroCard is replaced with a tap and go system makes no sense. 

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24 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Yes there are too many cars on the road. But SBS will do nothing to get people out of their cars to use buses. DOT and the MTA even with all their lies, omissions, and misleading statements, have never made any predictions as to how many will switch from car to bus because of SBS. That is because they know that no one will. 

SBS will save at most 15 minutes. Those who are currently using their car instead of the bus make their trip more than 15 minutes quicker than if they took the bus. If the trip takes 45 minutes by car, even with SBS and a longer car trip, the car will still be quicker than SBS especially if more than one bus is needed. 

As far as the rest of your post, I agree that Buses cannot replace subways but before we expand SBS, the MTA and DOT need to prove its worth the expense. So far they have not. There needs to be a moratorium on new SBS routes until MetroCard is replaced. To invest many millions of dollars in new fare machines that will be obsolete in five years if MetroCard is replaced with a tap and go system makes no sense. 

As I said before they don't care because it's cheaper than building subways. Just imagine the cost to build a subway down Woodhaven Blvd...

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9 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

As I said before they don't care because it's cheaper than building subways. Just imagine the cost to build a subway down Woodhaven Blvd...

But why would anyone want to build a subway down Woodhaven with all the disruption that would cause when you have an unused right of way one half mile to the east. That could be turned into a subway for one sixth the cost of the Second Avenue subway on a per mile basis.

The following letter also appeared in the same issue. 

http://www.qchron.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/stop-the-sbs-plan/article_3593162d-faf6-51d8-9565-a1a423cf1063.html

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4 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

But why would anyone want to build a subway down Woodhaven with all the disruption that would cause when you have an unused right of way one half mile to the east. That could be turned into a subway for one sixth the cost of the Second Avenue subway on a per mile basis.

The following letter also appeared in the same issue. 

http://www.qchron.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/stop-the-sbs-plan/article_3593162d-faf6-51d8-9565-a1a423cf1063.html

You just answered the question as to why SBS is being pushed as "the thing". 

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1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

But why would anyone want to build a subway down Woodhaven with all the disruption that would cause when you have an unused right of way one half mile to the east. That could be turned into a subway for one sixth the cost of the Second Avenue subway on a per mile basis.

Where the hell is the money supposed to come from? We're not cancelling any current projects to rebuild RBB, that's insane. We're spending out the nose on projects as it is.

Phase II, SAS - ~$6B

East Side Access - $12B and counting

Gateway - $20B

LIRR Third Track - $2B

Port Authority - $10B

A subway is certainly preferable, but the piggy bank is empty.

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8 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Where the hell is the money supposed to come from? We're not cancelling any current projects to rebuild RBB, that's insane. We're spending out the nose on projects as it is.

Phase II, SAS - ~$6B

East Side Access - $12B and counting

Gateway - $20B

LIRR Third Track - $2B

Port Authority - $10B

A subway is certainly preferable, but the piggy bank is empty.

Haven't you realized by now that the problem is not the money? It's the will. Politicians can find money for any project they want to fund. They are going to find money for 21 new SBS routes in the next ten years although they still haven't proven that it helps more than it hurts. Each route costs about $3 million more to operate each year. So with the 14 we already have, that equals 35 routes or over $100 million annually or $1 billion in ten years just in additional operating costs not considering inflation. 

Add to that the construction and DOT's ongoing costs to maintain lanes and signage. If each route costs only $15 million to construct, that's another $.5 billion. So where is that $1.5 billion coming from if the pot is empty? They are finding ways like linking SBS to Vision Zero to tap that funding. 

And what about the $4 billion for Cuomo's LGA link that doesn't even reduce trip times from Manhattan but only helps the real estate industry and a few Long Islanders who use LGA. He bypassed the MTA for that one and just ordered it done because he wants to do it. Where is that money coming from? They can certainly find $1.5 billion for Queens Rail if the political will was there. 

QueensRail is cost effective costing one sixth of what the SAS costs per mile. It makes sense even as a subway costing a little more than above ground. 

Maybe the answer is to reduce construction costs so that it doesn't cost more here than anyone else to build a deep tunnel subway (which would not be necessary in Queens). Maybe we shouldn't have spent the last 50 years building East Side Access which is always five years away from opening with its benefits that are not worth $12 billion. Wait until Brooklyn finds out that this "improvement" will reduce the Atlantic branch to a subway forcing you to switch platforms and walk up and downstairs to transfer at Jamaica. 

Money is not the problem. The problem is transportation is only improved when real estate benefits. (E.g. #7 extension) They do not care about the riders.

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23 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I don't follow your thinking. Explain.

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But why would anyone want to build a subway down Woodhaven with all the disruption that would cause when you have an unused right of way one half mile to the east. That could be turned into a subway for one sixth the cost of the Second Avenue subway on a per mile basis.

That unused right of way doesn't run the length of Woodhaven Blvd, and it's cheaper to spend millions on SBS service than billions on a subway.  It's very clear that something is needed along Woodhaven Blvd despite your denials.  You've written several articles on this Woodhaven Blvd situation now and while I partially agree with you, you've also done your own finagling of data to suit your agenda, so let's cut the BS here, like trying to underplay just how many riders use the buses along that corridor. Do you really think that artics aren't needed on the Q52 and Q53 just because you drove along there or took the bus a few times and happened to get on a bus that wasn't packed beyond belief?  I tutored in that area for several months on Saturday mornings. I would take the QM15 in from Midtown and QM15 out.  During my waits, I had a chance to see the overcrowding and sometimes would even use one of the buses to get me further up Woodhaven Blvd to have access to the BM5 when I finished early so I could get back to Manhattan quicker versus waiting longer for the QM15 and there were times when they would have empty buses start further up Woodhaven Blvd to address the overcrowding, so I don't doubt the ridership nor the need for artics.  You can talk about the cars traveling down that corridor all you want.  Buses should take priority over cars in this city.

In due time, the DOT can see how to accommodate drivers, but not before addressing the needs of those using public transportation despite all of the reasons you've provided. I understand that there are gaps in service that makes driving a necessity, but at the same time we cannot continue with the status quo.  Taking public transportation is a sacrifice that millions of New Yorkers make, even those of us that live in "transit deserts" like myself where there are no subways (the nearest subway for me is about a 20 minute walk).  If we don't start somewhere, we'll have a problem that only worsens with more and more of our streets turning into parking lots.  How about you do an article on how the city and the DOT needs to put a cap on the number of Uber and Lyft cars because they are causing an incredible amount of congestion in this city.  Those who haven't ditched the buses and subways for driving are now taking Ubers and that simply isn't sustainable given our finite amount of street space.  

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Bus Lanes are a NEED in this city, the Congestion is a living hell at this point. You may deny if you want but I as a daily Bus/Subway rider can tell you that MTA isn't gonna place articulated buses for any crazy reason, overcrowded routes need them, and they are studied for needs of articulation. People rely on Public Transportation as the quickest, and cheapest mode of transport here in the city, but now with Uber and Lyft Invading the city streets, all of a sudden it has become difficult to control the amount of ridesharing vehicles under our Jurisdiction. Politicians also have a blame on this issue because the City Council wrote a hill to CAP the amount Uber and Lyft vehicles in the city, and the Bill is stuck in City Hall because NONE OF THE PARTIES can agree to pass the Bill, and then come out and wonder why there is too much overcrowding? In order for MTA to gain more customers, they have to clean up their act, and give customers a sort of Incentive for to use Public Transportation. Street parking is another issue, its nice to see new buildings that are mandated to have garage's, I feel that the DOT needs to work on Constructing more Garages on bottleneck areas, and could help alleviate traffic by removing street parking on High Traffic Bus Routes and adding Bus Lanes, this would encourage residents to use DOT Parking Garages and open up more street space to make a relief on traffic, as well as making new structures that can accomodate Bus Lanes, Bike Lanes, Extra Lanes, HOV Lanes, etc.

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DOT's bus lane trickery.... What the hell's the "trick" supposed to be exactly...

With such an implicative title like that, you're sending off the message that bus lanes In general are TOTALLY unnecessary....

You seem to come on these forums to feign a stance of pro-transit, when you've gotten so pro-car, it isn't even funny.... And on this Woodhaven issue in particular, I mean honestly, how many times are you going to (forward articles to us on this forum) that parrot the same tired talking points (some of which are rooted in a little deception of your own).....

 

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That unused right of way doesn't run the length of Woodhaven Blvd, and it's cheaper to spend millions on SBS service than billions on a subway.  It's very clear that something is needed along Woodhaven Blvd despite your denials.  You've written several articles on this Woodhaven Blvd situation now and while I partially agree with you, you've also done your own finagling of data to suit your agenda, so let's cut the BS here, like trying to underplay just how many riders use the buses along that corridor. Do you really think that artics aren't needed on the Q52 and Q53 just because you drove along there or took the bus a few times and happened to get on a bus that wasn't packed beyond belief?  I tutored in that area for several months on Saturday mornings. I would take the QM15 in from Midtown and QM15 out.  During my waits, I had a chance to see the overcrowding and sometimes would even use one of the buses to get me further up Woodhaven Blvd to have access to the BM5 when I finished early so I could get back to Manhattan quicker versus waiting longer for the QM15 and there were times when they would have empty buses start further up Woodhaven Blvd to address the overcrowding, so I don't doubt the ridership nor the need for artics.  You can talk about the cars traveling down that corridor all you want.  Buses should take priority over cars in this city.

In due time, the DOT can see how to accommodate drivers, but not before addressing the needs of those using public transportation despite all of the reasons you've provided. I understand that there are gaps in service that makes driving a necessity, but at the same time we cannot continue with the status quo.  Taking public transportation is a sacrifice that millions of New Yorkers make, even those of us that live in "transit deserts" like myself where there are no subways (the nearest subway for me is about a 20 minute walk).  If we don't start somewhere, we'll have a problem that only worsens with more and more of our streets turning into parking lots.  How about you do an article on how the city and the DOT needs to put a cap on the number of Uber and Lyft cars because they are causing an incredible amount of congestion in this city.  Those who haven't ditched the buses and subways for driving are now taking Ubers and that simply isn't sustainable given our finite amount of street space.  

I also remember when he tried to downplay just how many ppl. take buses along Woodhaven.... Quite embarrassing, to say the least.....

The deceptiveness of (just how useful) SBS is, is one thing, but bus lanes? Come the f*** on....

Flag on the play....

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36 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

DOT's bus lane trickery.... What the hell's the "trick" supposed to be exactly...

With such an implicative title like that, you're sending off the message that bus lanes In general are TOTALLY unnecessary....

You seem to come on these forums to feign a stance of pro-transit, when you've gotten so pro-car, it isn't even funny.... And on this Woodhaven issue in particular, I mean honestly, how many times are you going to (forward articles to us on this forum) that parrot the same tired talking points (some of which are rooted in a little deception of your own).....

 

I also remember when he tried to downplay just how many ppl. take buses along Woodhaven.... Quite embarrassing, to say the least.....

The deceptiveness of (just how useful) SBS is, is one thing, but bus lanes? Come the f*** on....

Flag on the play....

 

36 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

DOT's bus lane trickery.... What the hell's the "trick" supposed to be exactly...

With such an implicative title like that, you're sending off the message that bus lanes In general are TOTALLY unnecessary....

You seem to come on these forums to feign a stance of pro-transit, when you've gotten so pro-car, it isn't even funny.... And on this Woodhaven issue in particular, I mean honestly, how many times are you going to (forward articles to us on this forum) that parrot the same tired talking points (some of which are rooted in a little deception of your own).....

 

I also remember when he tried to downplay just how many ppl. take buses along Woodhaven.... Quite embarrassing, to say the least.....

The deceptiveness of (just how useful) SBS is, is one thing, but bus lanes? Come the f*** on....

Flag on the play....

First of all, the title wasn't mine. It was the newspaper's editor. If you have problems with it, take it up with him. 

I believe bus lanes are necessary where they are necessary. They are not necessary on Woodhaven, certainly not in the center lanes where they will disrupt traffic more than in the service roads. They are not necessary when there is a bus only once every ten or 15 minutes and 80 percent of the traffic is cars. 

And when did I ever downplay the numbers who use buses? DOT claims it is like 32,000 per day. All I did was compare that number to those in passenger cars which is between 100,000 and 150,000 per day, which DOT tries to hide. I also mentioned that many of those 32,000 will not benefit from SBS because they travel short distances or will have to walk extra to an SBS stop wiping out their time savings. 

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44 minutes ago, WestFarms36 said:

Bus Lanes are a NEED in this city, the Congestion is a living hell at this point. You may deny if you want but I as a daily Bus/Subway rider can tell you that MTA isn't gonna place articulated buses for any crazy reason, overcrowded routes need them, and they are studied for needs of articulation. People rely on Public Transportation as the quickest, and cheapest mode of transport here in the city, but now with Uber and Lyft Invading the city streets, all of a sudden it has become difficult to control the amount of ridesharing vehicles under our Jurisdiction. Politicians also have a blame on this issue because the City Council wrote a hill to CAP the amount Uber and Lyft vehicles in the city, and the Bill is stuck in City Hall because NONE OF THE PARTIES can agree to pass the Bill, and then come out and wonder why there is too much overcrowding? In order for MTA to gain more customers, they have to clean up their act, and give customers a sort of Incentive for to use Public Transportation. Street parking is another issue, its nice to see new buildings that are mandated to have garage's, I feel that the DOT needs to work on Constructing more Garages on bottleneck areas, and could help alleviate traffic by removing street parking on High Traffic Bus Routes and adding Bus Lanes, this would encourage residents to use DOT Parking Garages and open up more street space to make a relief on traffic, as well as making new structures that can accomodate Bus Lanes, Bike Lanes, Extra Lanes, HOV Lanes, etc.

They are a need on some roads but not on Woodhaven Blvd. and certainly not 24/7. If articulated buses are being used to reduce overcrowding and not to reduce service, then why are five buses replaced with four attics? 

Except for rush hours and Beach traffic, the Q52 and Q53 carry seated loads at all other times. You have to wonder is the extra fuel and operator costs make them worthwhile for 24 hour service. Since service is based on crowding levels, their use on Woodhaven will result in less frequent service, not more service. That will not encourage transit use. 

As for your other points, I mostly agree with you. 

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13 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

They are a need on some roads but not on Woodhaven Blvd. and certainly not 24/7. If articulated buses are being used to reduce overcrowding and not to reduce service, then why are five buses replaced with four attics? 

Except for rush hours and Beach traffic, the Q52 and Q53 carry seated loads at all other times. You have to wonder is the extra fuel and operator costs make them worthwhile for 24 hour service. Since service is based on crowding levels, their use on Woodhaven will result in less frequent service, not more service. That will not encourage transit use. 

As for your other points, I mostly agree with you. 

You would again be incorrect. You've made that claim several times now, and several times you've been corrected. Stop spreading that lie.  As someone who has seen the crowds and has used those buses at times to go further north to have the BM5 and the QM15 as options, your claims are simply not true.  Per the (MTA) 's figures, the Q53 is 4th in ridership in (MTA) Bus overall, carrying over 5 million passengers last year.

http://web.mta.info/nyct/facts/ridership/ridership_busMTA_annual.htm

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1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

They are a need on some roads but not on Woodhaven Blvd. and certainly not 24/7. If articulated buses are being used to reduce overcrowding and not to reduce service, then why are five buses replaced with four attics? 

Except for rush hours and Beach traffic, the Q52 and Q53 carry seated loads at all other times. You have to wonder is the extra fuel and operator costs make them worthwhile for 24 hour service. Since service is based on crowding levels, their use on Woodhaven will result in less frequent service, not more service. That will not encourage transit use. 

As for your other points, I mostly agree with you. 

You're joking, I ALWAYS see standing loads on both the Q52 and Q53 and have experienced that myself over the past few weeks, and I ALWAYS see them at Jamaica Avenue and at Liberty!

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2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You would again be incorrect. You've made that claim several times now, and several times you've been corrected. Stop spreading that lie.  As someone who has seen the crowds and has used those buses at times to go further north to have the BM5 and the QM15 as options, your claims are simply not true.  Per the (MTA) 's figures, the Q53 is 4th in ridership in (MTA) Bus overall, carrying over 5 million passengers last year.

http://web.mta.info/nyct/facts/ridership/ridership_busMTA_annual.htm

 

2 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

You're joking, I ALWAYS see standing loads on both the Q52 and Q53 and have experienced that myself over the past few weeks, and I ALWAYS see them at Jamaica Avenue and at Liberty!

So tell me how come when I drive on Woodhaven about every other weekend, I can drive all the way from the Belt Parkway to Queens Blvd and pass only three or four buses on all the routes, Q11, Q21, Q52, Q53. In the opposite direction, there are only six buses. And other than on a beach day each bus has about only 20 passengers? I do see crowds of 30 or so at Liberty when there hasn't been a bus for 30 minutes. So if the service is so frequent, where are all the buses? On the service road near Atlantic Avenue where they are not visible? 

Only occasionally do I ever see an express bus and most of them that I see are out of service. 

When I am there occasionally during the week, the situation is similar. I am not there anymore during the rush hours. 

 

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19 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

 

So tell me how come when I drive on Woodhaven about every other weekend, I can drive all the way from the Belt Parkway to Queens Blvd and pass only three or four buses on all the routes, Q11, Q21, Q52, Q53. In the opposite direction, there are only six buses. And other than on a beach day each bus has about only 20 passengers? I do see crowds of 30 or so at Liberty when there hasn't been a bus for 30 minutes. So if the service is so frequent, where are all the buses? On the service road near Atlantic Avenue where they are not visible? 

Only occasionally do I ever see an express bus and most of them that I see are out of service. 

When I am there occasionally during the week, the situation is similar. I am not there anymore during the rush hours. 

 

How about you actually ride them and stop being a spectator from a car? Because unlike you, I actually ride them during the rush hour and the weekends, and they get pretty packed with some semblance of a standing load.

They don't get packed ALL THE WAY down to the Rockaways. From every single time I've seen standing loads, the biggest drop off points tend to be at Jamaica Avenue and Liberty Avenue during the rush hour and the afternoon hours during the weekend, with Liberty being another big pick-up spot.

Hell, even the artics that I've have had standing loads in them Southbound, but not crush loads.

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8 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

How about you actually ride them and stop being a spectator from a car? Because unlike you, I actually ride them during the rush hour and the weekends, and they get pretty packed with some semblance of a standing load.

They don't get packed ALL THE WAY down to the Rockaways. From every single time I've seen standing loads, the biggest drop off points tend to be at Jamaica Avenue and Liberty Avenue during the rush hour and the afternoon hours during the weekend, with Liberty being another big pick-up spot.


Hell, even the artics that I've have had standing loads in them Southbound, but not crush loads.

lol Took the words right out of my mouth... From Jamaica to points north is where it can be really crowded.

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4 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

 

First of all, the title wasn't mine. It was the newspaper's editor. If you have problems with it, take it up with him. 

I believe bus lanes are necessary where they are necessary. They are not necessary on Woodhaven, certainly not in the center lanes where they will disrupt traffic more than in the service roads. They are not necessary when there is a bus only once every ten or 15 minutes and 80 percent of the traffic is cars. 

And when did I ever downplay the numbers who use buses? DOT claims it is like 32,000 per day. All I did was compare that number to those in passenger cars which is between 100,000 and 150,000 per day, which DOT tries to hide. I also mentioned that many of those 32,000 will not benefit from SBS because they travel short distances or will have to walk extra to an SBS stop wiping out their time savings. 

Not only have you brought it to our attention, you're siding with it... So I'll take it up with you... If said editor wants to come on here & defend himself, he's more than willing - and I'll be right here to state my case.....

With that said, I never said anything about any numbers.... You have downplayed the amt. of bus riders along Woodhaven right along with the DOT... The difference is in the narratives being pushed that you do it & that the DOT does it..... Hell, you just did it with that statement about the Q52/53 carrying seated loads outside of rush hours & during beach season (summers).... To make like those routes don't get at least SRO outside of the rush is simply not true.....

Of course, the lesser the amt. of people you can convey that would benefit from bus lanes, the more you can justify Woodhaven blvd not benefitting from them.... You are definitely more pro-car than you are pro-transit & your never ending rhetoric specifically regarding Woodhaven Blvd. has gotten quite tiresome on this transit based forum.....

You're looking for nothing more than an audience wherever you can find it at this point.... Hate to break it to ya, but there are several ppl. on this forum that share the sentiment that although you make good points, they're the same good points over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.....

Diversity is not a foreign concept..... Try it sometime... It'll make you a more well-rounded writer.

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I was frequent Q52/Q53 rider as well and you need to ride Q52/Q53 to judge. I didn't ride new Artic yet.

BrooklynBus, during weekday rush hour, park your car at Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge and take ride on Q53 bus ride to Woodsdie and take back to Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge to see how Q53 passengers feel. Majority of elderly and pregnant women cannot get their seats because majority of rush hour Q52/Q53 buses are overcrowded.

I have taken Q52 and Q53 many times and during weekday rush hours and if you're waiting for Q53 at Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge in Broad Channel, sometimes Q53 bus doesn't show up until 4 Q52s passed by and sometimes it feels like hour wait when it's 30 minutes.

Q11/Q21/Q52/Q53/QM5 gets stuck in Woodhaven Blvd by Queens Center Mall and LIE.

Also sometimes during summer season are worst are worst, because majority of beach goers on cars crush up Woodhaven-Cross Bay Blvd for Rockaway Beach or continue through the Rockaways to Atlantic Highland Beach to Long Beach or continue through Long Beach to Jones Beach as well.

Q53 bus is also worst in summer when there are lots of beach goers who board Q53 heading to Rockaway Beach.

Q53 gets majority of crowd at Woodside, 74th St, Queens Center Mall, along subway stations and Rockaways.

Q52 between Queens Center and Broad Channel.

Lots of Woodhaven-Cross bay Blvd local/limited bus riders want faster ride on Woodhaven-Cross Bay Blvds and how it impossible for some riders to get on bus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

lol Took the words right out of my mouth... From Jamaica to points north is where it can be really crowded.

Most of my trips starts from Hoffman Drive(when the Queens Blvd Line runs like ass) to Jamaica Avenue or Atlantic Avenue, at times, Liberty Avenue as well. It stays pretty crowded till Jamaica Avenue, then empties out again at Liberty with more people boarding as well. The A train doesn't help matters at Liberty with the amount of people transferring to the Q52 or Q53.

Northbound during the midday and evening hours, I'll give him that one, they're not that packed Northbound, and I don't ride it in the AM to have a say in that. But during the PM, the last time I rode the Q53, which was roughly 2 days ago due to signal problems at Forest Hills, I rode it from Jackson Heights to Atlantic Avenue(to catch the Q24) and there was a seated load from Jackson Heights to Hoffman, and it then got packed at Hoffman. The majority got off at Jamaica Avenue. When I got off at Atlantic Avenue, there were still standees on the bus. This was on an articulated bus as well.

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BrooklynBus, take look at this video I found. Majority of Woodhaven-Cross Bay Blvd passengers don't like leaving left behind because of overcrowded bus. I assume this is Q53 heading to Rockaways by JC Penny in background.

Q52/Q53 dies run after Belt Parkway and mostly only several people go to Broad Channel. In summer season, majority of beach goers onboard Q52/Q53 stay on bus to Rockaways, which is good amount of people.

 

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2 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Most of my trips starts from Hoffman Drive(when the Queens Blvd Line runs like ass) to Jamaica Avenue or Atlantic Avenue, at times, Liberty Avenue as well. It stays pretty crowded till Jamaica Avenue, then empties out again at Liberty with more people boarding as well. The A train doesn't help matters at Liberty with the amount of people transferring to the Q52 or Q53.

Northbound during the midday and evening hours, I'll give him that one, they're not that packed Northbound, and I don't ride it in the AM to have a say in that. But during the PM, the last time I rode the Q53, which was roughly 2 days ago due to signal problems at Forest Hills, I rode it from Jackson Heights to Atlantic Avenue(to catch the Q24) and there was a seated load from Jackson Heights to Hoffman, and it then got packed at Hoffman. This was on an articulated bus as well.

I always used the QM15 on Saturdays starting going towards Queens in the morning and then leaving in the afternoon via the QM15 or sometimes the BM5.  By the afternoon, northbound, the crowds at Jamaica Avenue can be pretty intense. I got the impression that some of those people must go to school or something during then and that's the reason for some of the crowds.  Then you have all sorts of other businesses north of Jamaica with people shopping and the like, so given all of that it would make sense that the lines that run along Woodhaven Blvd get decent crowds. 

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I also agree Bus Lane is needed and MTA and DOT makes sure bus lanes are not in narrow streets.

Portion of Woodhaven-Cross Bay Blvds are wide enough to have one bus lane in each direction.

Q52/Q53 SBS boarding could be similar to Bx6 SBS's Median Island at Yankees Stadium and Sheridan which makes bus riders, subway riders, and baseball  fans safety cross 161st St with median bus boarding.

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