DOT's Bus Lane Trickery

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Yes, you've clearly explained why you're opposed to bus lanes... That's not what's being asked of you, nor was that ever in doubt ... At this juncture, it is this bit about you being so fair & the fact of the matter is, is that you're not.... You will get others to believe that you are, when your commentaries start correlating with such a disposition..... Funny how I'm all of a sudden putting bus riders on a pedestal because I don't agree with this crap about putting bus lanes on the freakin service road.... Of course, same old song & dance with you - Allan Rosen, never wrong.....

I'm "retaining" what's being put before me, emanating from you; and apparently, I'm not the only person coming to the same conclusions regarding your rhetoric.... I'm not the problem here..... You're not the only motorist on the planet & they all don't think like you... I also happen to drive & I'm not remotely close to this pseudo pro-transit, anti-transit crap that you're on..... The opposite of the stance of not putting bus lanes on the main road isn't putting bus riders on a pedestal.... Anybody that's truly for the betterment of transit is not going to sit up there & convey that since only 20% of the road users on a given roadway would benefit from bus lanes, so therefore, to hell with putting them on the main road (in this particular case) because 80% represents the majority.... For someone to convey that a roadway having a bus lane on it is indicative of somebody putting bus riders on a pedestal, says enough.... You have shown to be clearly for the motorist throughout this whole ordeal, you have shown virtually no sympathy for bus riders along Woodhaven blvd. throughout this discussion, and someone's supposed to believe that you're fair & balanced?????

You say buses won't move any faster with bus lanes in effect between those times in question... Interesting - so buses are going to move at no better than the same rate that they are now, with much less traffic in front of them.... Gotcha.....

Something else I've found interesting about you over the years is that..... How it is that so many people have it out for you?

 

And how come so many support me? At the Woodhaven Residents block Association meeting in November of 2015 (or 16, I forget which), when everyone was asked if they support SBS and the bus lanes, 100 said they were against it and only one hand went up in favor of it? 

And you are putting bus riders on a pedestal if by saying time saved by 20 percent is more important than time lost by 80 percent. If the roles were reversed and it was the bus riders who represented 80 percent and the motorists 20 percent, I would be the first one fighting for the bus riders demanding the bus lane. 

You obviously don't use Woodhaven on the weekends and see how fast those buses travel. I wouldn't be surprised if during the off peak, Woodhaven /Cross Bay has the fastest bus speeds in the city. I have been in the main road traveling for half a mile trying to catch up to a bus in the service road. That's how long it can take to pass a bus. Their average speed has to be close to 25 mph. And yes if they had their own lane they wouldn't be traveling any faster because there is no traffic in front of them. 

All the bus lanes would accomplish on weekends is to slow down the cars. And I wouldn't have written that article about beach service and how to fix the problems if I didn't sympathize with bus riders. So cut out the crap about me not caring about bus riders. You just don't like the article because it doesn't support SBS. If all I cared about were cars, I wouldn't have suggested turning the parking lane into a travel lane. 

[BrooklynBus]

6 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

To be fair, by reducing the relative advantage of car vs. public transit, that might be enough to get somebody to switch to mass transit. 

If congestion pricing was used to fund the MTA (without taking away another source of revenue), some of that money would be able to provide better alternatives, or just more frequency on crowded routes.

The goal should be to reduce mass transit travel times, not to increase car trip time by so much that it becomes the better alternative. I drove on Woodhaven Blvd daily to get to work for nine years. The trip took between 45 minutes and one hour everyday. The BQE would have taken 1 1/2 to 2 hours. My first month on the job, I too know the train at 90 minutes each way. Then I bought a car because I couldn't take it anymore. Then DOT made a bunch of traffic changes which I won't get into now, so if I was still working and made the trip today it would take 55 to 70 minutes. The only exclusive bus lanes will add at least another ten minutes. (Some are claiming they are already spending another 20 minutes in traffic with the Rego Park lanes.) So now a car trip which used to be 50 percent quicker than the train will now take just as long or longer than the train. Is that what we should be doing to get more people to use mass transit? That seems to be the city's strategy.

What it does do is cause more of the middle class to leave and seek employment elsewhere eroding the tax base. 

As far as congestion pricing, you say some of that money would be able to provide better alternatives or service. Would does not mean will. Even if the MTA had more money to provide more service doesn't mean that is what they would do. I worked for the MTA for nearly 25 years and do you know what they did three months after each fare hike? They gave out management merit increases. Until the MTA undergoes a culture change (which Tom Prendergast recognized and tried to do something about) they still will not care about providing better service. They will only care about the budget. 

4 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Nope, that bus was actually on-time. I checked the schedule beforehand, and bustime after that to see if it was worth catching the bus.

The southbound bus in question arrives at Broadway & 75th at 10:04pm. I would say that he was a minute or two late at Hoffman because a driver cut the bus off at Queens Blvd and made him miss the light.

Then the MTA is obviously not running enough service at that time and is violating their service planning guidelines. 

In the late 1960s I used to ride the B35 on nights during the summer. Those buses were also jammed at 10 PM the especially the nights the bingo parlors let out and 50 people would pile on at one bus stop. But back then they didn't have the methodology to know when their riders rode buses. Today they do know. They just don't care. 

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

And how come so many support me? At the Woodhaven Residents block Association meeting in November of 2015 (or 16, I forget which), when everyone was asked if they support SBS and the bus lanes, 100 said they were against it and only one hand went up in favor of it? 

And you are putting bus riders on a pedestal if by saying time saved by 20 percent is more important than time lost by 80 percent. If the roles were reversed and it was the bus riders who represented 80 percent and the motorists 20 percent, I would be the first one fighting for the bus riders demanding the bus lane. 

You obviously don't use Woodhaven on the weekends and see how fast those buses travel. I wouldn't be surprised if during the off peak, Woodhaven /Cross Bay has the fastest bus speeds in the city. I have been in the main road traveling for half a mile trying to catch up to a bus in the service road. That's how long it can take to pass a bus. Their average speed has to be close to 25 mph. And yes if they had their own lane they wouldn't be traveling any faster because there is no traffic in front of them. 

All the bus lanes would accomplish on weekends is to slow down the cars. And I wouldn't have written that article about beach service and how to fix the problems if I didn't sympathize with bus riders. So cut out the crap about me not caring about bus riders. You just don't like the article because it doesn't support SBS. If all I cared about were cars, I wouldn't have suggested turning the parking lane into a travel lane. 

Anybody that isn't on what you're on as far as this goes, is putting bus riders on a pedestal..... Pure anti-transit stance.

I'll cease bringing up you not caring about bus riders, when you stop forwarding these articles & making subsequent posts on here with your anti-transit, pro-car crap you've been on for some odd years now.... That's how that works..... The fact that you've now resorted to conjuring up an unfounded, blatant lie about me not liking this article because I'm an SBS supporter all of a sudden, shows that I struck a nerve in debunking your delusion of being fair & balanced.... You being called out on your shit in this thread has less to do about SBS (for a change) & much more to do with this rhetoric regarding bus lanes - because it just so happens to disrupt motorists.... You couldn't explain away having bus lanes on the service road being this pro-transit, pro-car, fair & balanced stance, so now you've resorted to outright lying, dismissing me as some SBS supporter - Coming from the same person that made at least 1 post on here in the past proclaiming you're more for SBS than I am, when I accused you of being just as much anti-SBS as I am.... Combating refutations with lies, but have the nerve to (sarcastically) ask me if I support the DOT's lies....

What article about beach service? The last article you came out with that had anything to do with the Rockaways was that article about removing stops from off the Q22..... That article (the one you initially provided no context for btw) is a good example of why I call (what you call you being pro-transit these days) as being pseudo pro-transit.... Your main sticking point was regarding the elderly folks in the western part of the Rockaways (which you've always had a bit of an affinity for anyways) that would be inconvenienced... Yes, yes, but they're still bus riders though, you're pro-transit, got all that.... Wouldn't know it though, reading these posts of yours in this thread.....

If all you cared was about cars, suggesting turning the parking lane into a travel lane is only one way of conveying such a stance....

 

[MHV9218]

Amen to all of these posts B35.

I drive, B35 drives, a lot of us drive. We know the difference between being respectful of motorists and anti-transit. These posts essentially amount to spam, at this point, when week after week we get linked to another website where we read a new rant repeating the exact same anti-transit argument.  

[FamousNYLover]

How about find parking space in the Rockaways near Q53 bus stop at Rockway Park-B 116th St bus stop and ride round trip to Woodside and back to see how Q53 bus riders feel?

 

[BrooklynBus]

25 minutes ago, FamousNYLover said:

How about find parking space in the Rockaways near Q53 bus stop at Rockway Park-B 116th St bus stop and ride round trip to Woodside and back to see how Q53 bus riders feel?

 

Every time I've been to Rockaway to go to the beach, I have never seen an empty parking space. Anyway, don't try to make it seem like all Q53 passengers are in favor of SBS. They are not. One person listed somewhere that although he thought he would benefit by it, it is still a bad idea. A friend of mine uses the Q53 regularly from Rockaway to Queens Blvd. He is always complaining how poor the service is, but he is one of the leading advocates against SBS. 

Once it starts, more bus riders will be against it because they will find that their trips will not be as quick as they expected. Service may not be reduced immediately, but after one or two picks you will see less frequent service because of the articulated buses. You will also see little or no improvement in bus reliability if other routes can be used as a guide. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

Once it starts, more bus riders will be against it because they will find that their trips will not be as quick as they expected. Service may not be reduced immediately, but after one or two picks you will see less frequent service because of the articulated buses. You will also see little or no improvement in bus reliability if other routes can be used as a guide. 

It is already being reduced starting November 12. I also do not think service can be reduced significantly; a lot of these buses were crush loaded before artics. The reductions technically make sense (but if they reduce service from that, THEN we have a problem). 

[B35 via Church]

8 hours ago, FamousNYLover said:

How about find parking space in the Rockaways near Q53 bus stop at Rockway Park-B 116th St bus stop and ride round trip to Woodside and back to see how Q53 bus riders feel?

About what, the bus lanes or about SBS? You're gonna get a biased sample regardless....

6 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

It is already being reduced starting November 12....

What else is new.... What are they reducing it to now?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

On 11/7/2017 at 4:38 AM, B35 via Church said:

About what, the bus lanes or about SBS? You're gonna get a biased sample regardless....

What else is new.... What are they reducing it to now?

Q53 Frequencies before SBS (Wkdy/Sat/Sun)

AM: 6 / 12 / 12-15

Noon: 10 / 10 / 10

PM: 8 / 10 /  10

Eve: 12-20 / 12-20 / 15-20

Night: 60 / 60 / 60

 

Q53 After SBS (Weekday/Sat/Sun)

Bold denotes reduction, Italics denote increase:

AM: 8 / 15 /15

Noon: 12 /  12 / 12

PM: 7 /  12 /  12

Eve: 12-20 / 12-20 / 15-20

Night: 60 / 60 / 60

[LGA Link N Train]

If i'm not mistaken, SBS on the Q52 and Q53 is about to start???

and yesterday, I saw that Woodhaven Blvd looked WAY different than from what I remember

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 11/5/2017 at 6:06 PM, BrooklynBus said:

And how come so many support me? At the Woodhaven Residents block Association meeting in November of 2015 (or 16, I forget which), when everyone was asked if they support SBS and the bus lanes, 100 said they were against it and only one hand went up in favor of it? 

And you are putting bus riders on a pedestal if by saying time saved by 20 percent is more important than time lost by 80 percent. If the roles were reversed and it was the bus riders who represented 80 percent and the motorists 20 percent, I would be the first one fighting for the bus riders demanding the bus lane. 

You obviously don't use Woodhaven on the weekends and see how fast those buses travel. I wouldn't be surprised if during the off peak, Woodhaven /Cross Bay has the fastest bus speeds in the city. I have been in the main road traveling for half a mile trying to catch up to a bus in the service road. That's how long it can take to pass a bus. Their average speed has to be close to 25 mph. And yes if they had their own lane they wouldn't be traveling any faster because there is no traffic in front of them. 

All the bus lanes would accomplish on weekends is to slow down the cars. And I wouldn't have written that article about beach service and how to fix the problems if I didn't sympathize with bus riders. So cut out the crap about me not caring about bus riders. You just don't like the article because it doesn't support SBS. If all I cared about were cars, I wouldn't have suggested turning the parking lane into a travel lane. 

 

I'm not sure about that "putting bus riders on a pedestal" thing. The real issue is less about cars versus buses and more about people. How many people are riding in the car lanes? How many people are riding in the bus lanes? 

 

Maybe your non-neighbors in Queens oppose SBS because they have never seen the inside of a bus in their lives (and are proud of it). Maybe they would prefer a Robert Moses-esque solution of simply banning buses on Woodhaven. Is that your goal, too?

 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

I'm not sure about that "putting bus riders on a pedestal" thing. The real issue is less about cars versus buses and more about people. How many people are riding in the car lanes? How many people are riding in the bus lanes? 

 

Maybe your non-neighbors in Queens oppose SBS because they have never seen the inside of a bus in their lives (and are proud of it). Maybe they would prefer a Robert Moses-esque solution of simply banning buses on Woodhaven. Is that your goal, too?

 

 

Seriously, those people that live in Woodhaven are so car centric that it's sickening, and many of them are indeed proud that they have never seen the inside of a bus. They're worse than Staten Islanders with that crap. They may think they live in suburbia, but it's still Queens in NYC, and it's not even that suburban compared to places like Douglaston, or Little Neck. Woodhaven by comparison is far more walkable. Those people will find any excuse to drive.

[FamousNYLover]

5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Seriously, those people that live in Woodhaven are so car centric that it's sickening, and many of them are indeed proud that they have never seen the inside of a bus. They're worse than Staten Islanders with that crap. They may think they live in suburbia, but it's still Queens in NYC, and it's not even that suburban compared to places like Douglaston, or Little Neck. Woodhaven by comparison is far more walkable. Those people will find any excuse to drive.

Also majority of Long Island motorists don't respect any buses at. I have been on LIE expressway in Queens when some bad jeep driver drive like crazy stunt driver and driver on shoulder! I don't think majority of LI motorists will abuse bus lanes because they think they could do what they want. Everytime when I'm on artic bus on n6, Long Island motorists honk at articulated bus driver because they can't wait until bus turns.

Also Woodhaven-Cross Bay Blvd is also used by car centric Long Island as well sometimes.

 

When I took first Q53 SBS round trip in early morning Sunday, it only took 1 hour between Woodside and Rockaway Park Station.

 

 

 

 

[BrooklynBus]

12 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

I'm not sure about that "putting bus riders on a pedestal" thing. The real issue is less about cars versus buses and more about people. How many people are riding in the car lanes? How many people are riding in the bus lanes? 

 

Maybe your non-neighbors in Queens oppose SBS because they have never seen the inside of a bus in their lives (and are proud of it). Maybe they would prefer a Robert Moses-esque solution of simply banning buses on Woodhaven. Is that your goal, too?

 

 

There are about 32,000 daily bus riders which includes charters, school buses, and casino buses. No figures are available regarding people in cars. The only numbers we have are the number of cars crossing specific intersections. About 40,000 vehicles cross the Belt Parkway on Cross Bay Boulevard. Intersections along Woodhaven have between 45,000 and 60,000 vehicles crossing them. Woodhaven is 4 miles long and Cross Bay is 6. If we assume an average five mile trip length on Woodhaven/Cross Bay, that would be about 100,000 vehicles daily. The car occupancy rate is usually 1.3 people per car, making it 130,000 people in cars. However if the turnover rate is greater than two which is very possible since some cars may only travel a mile or less, the number would be significantly higher, like between 150,000 and 180,000. 

Also, if we assume 30,000 in local and express buses, some of those passengers are also using the bus for a mile or two only which means the amount of time saved by SBS would only be about a minute or two. So we are talking about only 25,000 that could be significantly helped by SBS versus about 140,000 that are significantly hurt by SBS. 

[BrooklynBus]

4 hours ago, FamousNYLover said:

When I took first Q53 SBS round trip in early morning Sunday, it only took 1 hour between Woodside and Rockaway Park Station.

That is the scheduled running time. Was it 20 to 30 percent quicker as promised? 

[BrooklynBus]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/11/14/woodhaven-blvd-bus-lane/

 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/11/14/woodhaven-blvd-bus-lane/

 

 

Aww... Those poor babies are stuck in their cars... Imagine that...  Let them take public transportation like so many other New Yorkers do. If they didn't drive like lunatics maybe this wouldn't be necessary. Try being a pedestrian crossing Woodhaven or Cross Bay Blvd. The cars fly up the boulevard and you have to run for your life to cross.  Totally unacceptable in a city where the majority of residents don't drive.  As one representative noted, 30,000 commuters use buses along Woodhaven & Cross Bay Blvd and they also have some of the longest commute times in the country.  

http://www.ny1.com/nyc/queens/news/2017/10/11/residents-say-sbs-expansion-in-ozone-park-is-causing-traffic-woes

[BrooklynBus]

16 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Aww... Those poor babies are stuck in their cars... Imagine that...  Let them take public transportation like so many other New Yorkers do. If they didn't drive like lunatics maybe this wouldn't be necessary. Try being a pedestrian crossing Woodhaven or Cross Bay Blvd. The cars fly up the boulevard and you have to run for your life to cross.  Totally unacceptable in a city where the majority of residents don't drive.  As one representative noted, 30,000 commuters use buses along Woodhaven & Cross Bay Blvd and they also have some of the longest commute times in the country.  

http://www.ny1.com/nyc/queens/news/2017/10/11/residents-say-sbs-expansion-in-ozone-park-is-causing-traffic-woes

Sorry to say but I am now losing all respect I had with you with this comment of yours. I have already explained to you numerous times why most who drive on Woodhaven have no other choice. Bus is not an option for them. No cars are flying up Woodhaven any more since they can't travel any faster than 15 mph most of the time. 

You keep saying the majority of the city's residents don't drive. That is irrelevant. We are not talking about the entire city. We are talking about Woodhaven Blvd where 80 percent of the traffic is from cars. Only 20 percent of those in motor vehicles are in buses. So if you want to talk about helping the majority, let's use the true numbers, not irrelevant ones. 

And your link is out of date anyway. It is about construction delays before implementation. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

28 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Sorry to say but I am now losing all respect I had with you with this comment of yours. I have already explained to you numerous times why most who drive on Woodhaven have no other choice. Bus is not an option for them. No cars are flying up Woodhaven any more since they can't travel any faster than 15 mph most of the time. 

You keep saying the majority of the city's residents don't drive. That is irrelevant. We are not talking about the entire city. We are talking about Woodhaven Blvd where 80 percent of the traffic is from cars. Only 20 percent of those in motor vehicles are in buses. So if you want to talk about helping the majority, let's use the true numbers, not irrelevant ones. 

And your link is out of date anyway. It is about construction delays before implementation. 

So in the other words, to hell with people who don't drive along the corridor.  They can continue to have to run across the street to avoid getting run over like I had to when making my way to the QM15.  

You want to talk solely about Woodhaven Blvd? Okay fine.  You can address my safety comment above.  The medians are a necessity. It's a boulevard, not a damn raceway, and those cars fly up the Boulevard without a damn care in the world about the people that need to cross.  Unacceptable.  I posted the link because I share Councilman Donovan's sentiment in that the city needs to do more to allow the 30,000 bus commuters along Woodhaven Blvd with faster commutes and they should be able to cross safely.  If you faced a similar situation along Oriental Blvd where you had to run for your life just to cross the street and wait for the B49 or B1 in Manhattan Beach, you would be singing a different tune, so spare me with your outrage for cars along Woodhaven Blvd.  We are a pedestrian city regardless of how many people drive in a particular area, and we must always think about their safety.  It is not okay for people to be run over just trying to cross the street.   

 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

So I've been keeping track of the bus lane on the BM5 and QM15 express buses.

 

AM QM15's are actually running ahead of schedule. Some trips arrive 34 Street up to 8 minutes earlier than the scheduled time (this is during the height of the rush too). Some of the BM5's also make it to 34 Street a lot faster than before, some rush hour trips now take 50 minutes to get to 34 Street. This is great because any delay in Midtown will not be as catastrophic anymore. One thing that does need to be worked on though, is time adjustments. Currently, I believe that some BO's are departing late, and some are just departing at their regular time. I've seen cases of bus bunching occurring from south of Liberty Avenue.

 

Midday service is relatively smooth; buses are generally on time. 

 

PM rush will see the least change in reliability, since the trips start from Midtown. However, what I will say is I've seen QM15 buses make it to Lindenwood in record time (about 60-70 minutes).

 

Evening service is reliable, and also faster by a few minutes. Not much of a change since both a generally fast during those hours.

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

So I've been keeping track of the bus lane on the BM5 and QM15 express buses.

 

AM QM15's are actually running ahead of schedule. Some trips arrive 34 Street up to 8 minutes earlier than the scheduled time (this is during the height of the rush too). Some of the BM5's also make it to 34 Street a lot faster than before, some rush hour trips now take 50 minutes to get to 34 Street. This is great because any delay in Midtown will not be as catastrophic anymore. One thing that does need to be worked on though, is time adjustments. Currently, I believe that some BO's are departing late, and some are just departing at their regular time. I've seen cases of bus bunching occurring from south of Liberty Avenue.

 

Midday service is relatively smooth; buses are generally on time. 

 

PM rush will see the least change in reliability, since the trips start from Midtown. However, what I will say is I've seen QM15 buses make it to Lindenwood in record time (about 60-70 minutes).

 

Evening service is reliable, and also faster by a few minutes. Not much of a change since both a[re] generally fast during those hours.

I'm supposed to believe there's such this ruse being put into play - You know, buses couldn't travel any faster - due to the speed limit being 25 & buses have to make stops on top of it...... But yet we have you stating that QM15's in the morning, at minimum, are running ahead of schedule & BM5's getting to Manhattan faster than before..... Well aint that some shit.... Have this character tell it, you are against cars, you're not being fair, you're putting BM5 & QM15 riders on a pedestal, this is all in your head, etc. etc.....

------------------------

Once upon a time, people went to Central Park to see David Blaine "disappear" & got dis...appointed with this instead  

There hasn't been one person on here (a transit forum, mind you) yet that's fully concurred with this narrative that's been on display... But three no cheers for those folks that represent the so-called Woodhaven Residents Block Association & other sole pro-car folks & organizations that's he's apparently fighting the good fight for - oh how they just adore public transportation so.....

The moral of this corrupted story is, bus lanes exist to stick it to motorists - To hell with anyone that dares or wishes to use public transit - especially if it's that of the MTA - the same agency that got rid of him whenever the hell they did..... This shit has gotten downright sad & embarrassing at this point....

To all you younger folks on here, don't ever, and I mean EVER, let one employer affect you the way that it has this dude.....

....and in the interlude:

 

[BrooklynBus]

20 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

So in the other words, to hell with people who don't drive along the corridor.  They can continue to have to run across the street to avoid getting run over like I had to when making my way to the QM15.  

You want to talk solely about Woodhaven Blvd? Okay fine.  You can address my safety comment above.  The medians are a necessity. It's a boulevard, not a damn raceway, and those cars fly up the Boulevard without a damn care in the world about the people that need to cross.  Unacceptable.  I posted the link because I share Councilman Donovan's sentiment in that the city needs to do more to allow the 30,000 bus commuters along Woodhaven Blvd with faster commutes and they should be able to cross safely.  If you faced a similar situation along Oriental Blvd where you had to run for your life just to cross the street and wait for the B49 or B1 in Manhattan Beach, you would be singing a different tune, so spare me with your outrage for cars along Woodhaven Blvd.  We are a pedestrian city regardless of how many people drive in a particular area, and we must always think about their safety.  It is not okay for people to be run over just trying to cross the street.   

 

Don't put words in my mouth by accusing me of saying things I never said or thinking things I never thought. There are many ways to improve bus service along Woodhaven which I have previously mentioned without creating SBS which is a cut in service and provides less service not more. 

As far as people running across the street to avoid getting run over, why don't you thank DOT for that with their median islands that requires you to cross the street twice as often. As far as drivers being inpatient and not giving pedestrians the right of way, can you really blame them for wanting to save a minute after DOT just added 20 minutes to their trip? And may I ask you if you were in a crosswalk when you weren't given the right of way? Or do you expect as a pedestrian to be allowed to break the law while you expect drivers to obey all the laws all the time? 

As far as cars flying up the roadway without them caring about those wanting to cross as you put it, are they doing that in the middle of the block where you expect them to stop for you to cross or are they doing it because they are flying through red lights while you are waiting in the crosswalk? 

If you are crossing at a crosswalk and start at the beginning of the green signal not when you have a red hand flashing or an indication of seven seconds less, you certainly have enough time to cross the entire street safely at a normal pace. Even if you walk as slow as I do now, you would still have enough time. All the walk signals have been lengthened to allow you to cross safely. The days where you could only cross half a boulevard on a walk cycle are long since gone.

And it is no major crime if you do have to safely wait on a pedestrian island for the following signal. That is what they are there for. Cars routinely have to wait for two or even three green signals to cross an intersection, but that poses no problems for you and you do not think there is anything wrong with that. You just believe they have no business in a car and should have been on the bus without considering their individual circumstances. You just believe all of them wouldn't want to be caught riding a bus under any circumstances.

That is just not true. My neighbor takes a taxi to work although she could take one direct bus. The difference is 20 minutes by car vs one hour by bus. Your solution would be to make her car trip take longer than one hour to make the bus competitive. That is why you support SBS and the exclusive bus lanes 24/7 even during times they don't even make the bus trip any faster. You are just glad that those damn car drivers have slower trips. But when someone offers you a lift in their car so you can save a few minutes, you grab it, you hypocrite.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

17 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Don't put words in my mouth by accusing me of saying things I never said or thinking things I never thought. There are many ways to improve bus service along Woodhaven which I have previously mentioned without creating SBS which is a cut in service and provides less service not more. 

As far as people running across the street to avoid getting run over, why don't you thank DOT for that with their median islands that requires you to cross the street twice as often. As far as drivers being inpatient and not giving pedestrians the right of way, can you really blame them for wanting to save a minute after DOT just added 20 minutes to their trip? And may I ask you if you were in a crosswalk when you weren't given the right of way? Or do you expect as a pedestrian to be allowed to break the law while you expect drivers to obey all the laws all the time? 

As far as cars flying up the roadway without them caring about those wanting to cross as you put it, are they doing that in the middle of the block where you expect them to stop for you to cross or are they doing it because they are flying through red lights while you are waiting in the crosswalk? 

If you are crossing at a crosswalk and start at the beginning of the green signal not when you have a red hand flashing or an indication of seven seconds less, you certainly have enough time to cross the entire street safely at a normal pace. Even if you walk as slow as I do now, you would still have enough time. All the walk signals have been lengthened to allow you to cross safely. The days where you could only cross half a boulevard on a walk cycle are long since gone.

And it is no major crime if you do have to safely wait on a pedestrian island for the following signal. That is what they are there for. Cars routinely have to wait for two or even three green signals to cross an intersection, but that poses no problems for you and you do not think there is anything wrong with that. You just believe they have no business in a car and should have been on the bus without considering their individual circumstances. You just believe all of them wouldn't want to be caught riding a bus under any circumstances.

That is just not true. My neighbor takes a taxi to work although she could take one direct bus. The difference is 20 minutes by car vs one hour by bus. Your solution would be to make her car trip take longer than one hour to make the bus competitive. That is why you support SBS and the exclusive bus lanes 24/7 even during times they don't even make the bus trip any faster. You are just glad that those damn car drivers have slower trips. But when someone offers you a lift in their car so you can save a few minutes, you grab it, you hypocrite.

You can provide all of the examples you want, but overall I'm willing to put money on it that most of the people driving along Woodhaven Blvd are anti-transit and wouldn't be caught dead on a bus of any kind.  There's nothing wrong with wanting a faster commute.  I totally get that and you don't need to keep bringing that up to me as the reason why it's so important along Woodhaven Blvd as if that's the only corridor in all of NYC with people who need to drive.  The fact of the matter is before the DOT took the measures that it did to make the corridor more pedestrian friendly, it was hell getting across safely.  Woodhaven Blvd is very wide and even for me I had to worry about getting across quickly because the cars would turn onto the Blvd and come flying.  You act is if because pedestrians have the right away at a corner that they don't have cars to worry about. They do, and those drivers do NOT want to wait for pedestrians to cross because they don't give a damn, so since they have no consideration for people that need to cross, the DOT was forced to take these measures to avoid people being run over.  You may like them but I think they were needed.

Now with regards to the bus only lanes, I think the DOT should keep them 24/7, but they should reward people who car pool and allow those people into the lanes as well outside of rush hour, otherwise I support the bus only lanes.  We have to reward people who are are sacrificing and taking public transit because if we don't, we're going to have more and more people getting into their cars because they can, not because they need to, and while you b*tch and moan about it, we don't have an infinite amount of road space on Woodhaven Blvd or anywhere else, so we have to maximize the space that we have that will get the biggest bang for the buck.  So there's one measly bus lane along the corridor. Big deal.

[BrooklynBus]

31 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You can provide all of the examples you want, but overall I'm willing to put money on it that most of the people driving along Woodhaven Blvd are anti-transit and wouldn't be caught dead on a bus of any kind.  There's nothing wrong with wanting a faster commute.  I totally get that and you don't need to keep bringing that up to me as the reason why it's so important along Woodhaven Blvd as if that's the only corridor in all of NYC with people who need to drive.  The fact of the matter is before the DOT took the measures that it did to make the corridor more pedestrian friendly, it was hell getting across safely.  Woodhaven Blvd is very wide and even for me I had to worry about getting across quickly because the cars would turn onto the Blvd and come flying.  You act is if because pedestrians have the right away at a corner that they don't have cars to worry about. They do, and those drivers do NOT want to wait for pedestrians to cross because they don't give a damn, so since they have no consideration for people that need to cross, the DOT was forced to take these measures to avoid people being run over.  You may like them but I think they were needed.

Now with regards to the bus only lanes, I think the DOT should keep them 24/7, but they should reward people who car pool and allow those people into the lanes as well outside of rush hour, otherwise I support the bus only lanes.  We have to reward people who are are sacrificing and taking public transit because if we don't, we're going to have more and more people getting into their cars because they can, not because they need to, and while you b*tch and moan about it, we don't have an infinite amount of road space on Woodhaven Blvd or anywhere else, so we have to maximize the space that we have that will get the biggest bang for the buck.  So there's one measly bus lane along the corridor. Big deal.

Woodhaven is different than any other corridor in the city with bus lanes because IT HAS NO PARALLEL ROADWAYS. You don't seem to get that. You just can't take the Avenue a block away when Woodhaven gets overcrowded. The dangers of Woodhaven have been over exaggerated with deaths and fatalities accumulated over 15 year periods. Single digit numbers just aren't dramatic enough when you want to paint a roadway as one of the deadliest in the city. 

I suggested allowing carpools in the bus lane but DOT refused to consider it. Getting the biggest bang for the buck using buses is only theory but worthless in reality. When there are so many reasons why buses are not a feasible alternative for many, saving ten minutes out of an otherwise two hour trip by bus/train will not get people out if their cars. Last night at 9:30 PM I would have had to wait 30 minutes for two buses that were bunched. Tell me that was because of traffic or because the MTA doesn't care or doesn't have the resources to run its buses on time, or is it's incompetent. And SBS buses are no more reliable with their exclusive lanes and bunch just as often. 

And then tell me why it makes sense to close a lane to traffic and have a bus lane when buses are scheduled every 15 or 30 minutes, or no buses are scheduled to run at all. The answer is to punish drivers and this punishment results in declines and eventual shutdowns of local businesses until the only things you will see are chain stores and medical offices, and the middle class moving out to other cities and the suburbs. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

29 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Woodhaven is different than any other corridor in the city with bus lanes because IT HAS NO PARALLEL ROADWAYS. You don't seem to get that. You just can't take the Avenue a block away when Woodhaven gets overcrowded. The dangers of Woodhaven have been over exaggerated with deaths and fatalities accumulated over 15 year periods. Single digit numbers just aren't dramatic enough when you want to paint a roadway as one of the deadliest in the city. 

I suggested allowing carpools in the bus lane but DOT refused to consider it. Getting the biggest bang for the buck using buses is only theory but worthless in reality. When there are so many reasons why buses are not a feasible alternative for many, saving ten minutes out of an otherwise two hour trip by bus/train will not get people out if their cars. Last night at 9:30 PM I would have had to wait 30 minutes for two buses that were bunched. Tell me that was because of traffic or because the MTA doesn't care or doesn't have the resources to run its buses on time, or is it's incompetent. And SBS buses are no more reliable with their exclusive lanes and bunch just as often. 

And then tell me why it makes sense to close a lane to traffic and have a bus lane when buses are scheduled every 15 or 30 minutes, or no buses are scheduled to run at all. The answer is to punish drivers and this punishment results in declines and eventual shutdowns of local businesses until the only things you will see are chain stores and medical offices, and the middle class moving out to other cities and the suburbs. 

I totally get it.  You want business as usual to continue on Woodhaven Blvd and it can't.  Bus lanes won't solve everything as to why bus service is atrocious in this city and along Woodhaven Blvd, but it's a start in the right direction. There are numerous reasons as to why bus service is horrendous along that corridor.  Unsynced lights, horrible B/Os that can't drive and B/Os playing games definitely come to mind.

The dangers of Woodhaven Blvd have not been over exaggerated.  You're looking at Woodhaven Blvd from a driver's perspective. How many times have you been a pedestrian and had to cross?  Tell me that.  You also are going solely off of how many people have been killed, which isn't indicative of anything. I'm a young healthy male and even I had to run to get across that corridor when going to get the QM15. Imagine someone who is older or disabled trying to cross.  Not a walk in the park, that's for sure.  

As for the DOT's refusal, they're taking a hard stance on the issue and they should.  Our buses have to start moving, and that WILL mean drivers having to have longer commutes.  There's no nice way to say it, and you'll have to suck it up.  Drivers in NYC always have been paying more (via time and via money) for the privilege to drive because we have limited space here, and having so many drivers in their cars is unsustainable.  I suspect that the DOT will eventually cave in to your request because the back-ups will be so bad that they'll have to re-consider.

What I am not pleased with is why the DOT is not implementing traffic signal priority for ALL buses along that corridor NOW?  Their report says that they'll be implementing that technology in "the coming years".  They are definitely doing it along the M79 at locations like Lexington and 79th and Park and 79th, and the reason I know is because I've seen several M79 buses go right through the intersection (Lex and 79th) despite the light basically changing. The bus was given a few extra seconds to go through while traffic was held. They also do this with the M86 along 86th and Park. I can't recall ever having a bus held at that intersection.