DOT's Bus Lane Trickery

[T to Dyre Avenue]

The articulated buses on the Q52 and Q53, along with the bus lanes with off-board fare collection are steps in the right direction towards improving transit on Woodhaven Blvd. But make no mistake, that’s exactly what they are - steps. SBS shouldn’t be the permanent solution. The permanent solution is to rebuild the nearby abandoned Rockaway Beach branch for subway service and extend the ,  or a possible second Second Ave Subway service onto the branch. 

I’m fully aware we have a thread for that in the subway forum. I’ve posted many times in favor of putting subways on the old LIRR branch because I believe that is the best solution as far as offering a superior public transit alternative to the madness otherwise known as driving on Woodhaven and Cross Bay boulevards. And yes, it is madness. I’ve driven on Woodhaven and Cross Bay enough times to know. Either you sit in heavy traffic or you deal with reckless, selfish drivers who are only too happy to speed up once the traffic breaks up. There’s got to be a better way to travel from North Queens to South Queens than that.

[BrooklynBus]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I totally get it.  You want business as usual to continue on Woodhaven Blvd and it can't.  Bus lanes won't solve everything as to why bus service is atrocious in this city and along Woodhaven Blvd, but it's a start in the right direction. There are numerous reasons as to why bus service is horrendous along that corridor.  Unsynced lights, horrible B/Os that can't drive and B/Os playing games definitely come to mind.

The dangers of Woodhaven Blvd have not been over exaggerated.  You're looking at Woodhaven Blvd from a driver's perspective. How many times have you been a pedestrian and had to cross?  Tell me that.  You also are going solely off of how many people have been killed, which isn't indicative of anything. I'm a young healthy male and even I had to run to get across that corridor when going to get the QM15. Imagine someone who is older or disabled trying to cross.  Not a walk in the park, that's for sure.  

As for the DOT's refusal, they're taking a hard stance on the issue and they should.  Our buses have to start moving, and that WILL mean drivers having to have longer commutes.  There's no nice way to say it, and you'll have to suck it up.  Drivers in NYC always have been paying more (via time and via money) for the privilege to drive because we have limited space here, and having so many drivers in their cars is unsustainable.  I suspect that the DOT will eventually cave in to your request because the back-ups will be so bad that they'll have to re-consider.

What I am not pleased with is why the DOT is not implementing traffic signal priority for ALL buses along that corridor NOW?  Their report says that they'll be implementing that technology in "the coming years".  They are definitely doing it along the M79 at locations like Lexington and 79th and Park and 79th, and the reason I know is because I've seen several M79 buses go right through the intersection (Lex and 79th) despite the light basically changing. The bus was given a few extra seconds to go through while traffic was held. They also do this with the M86 along 86th and Park. I can't recall ever having a bus held at that intersection.

Of course you won't answer any of my questions so I am not going to continue to debate with you. If there is an intersection that is especially dangerous or one where walk times need to get adjusted, of course those issues need to be addressed but this has nothing t do with exclusive bus lanes or SBS. So stop trying to deflect the discussion. 

I have crossed Woodhaven Blvd a number of times and never had any problems. Last year I observed Woodhaven and Metropolitan for ten minutes to see if new islands as DOT was proposing was really necessary. What I saw was buses traveling at 30 mph which meant that no exclusive lane was necessary. Also, there were only three pedestrians crossing the street, all of whom had adequate time to cross the street walking slowly, and fifty cars waiting and making left turns that DOT was trying to ban. I saw no justification for islands or for banning the left turn that DOT since changed their mind about. As bad as traffic is now, it would even have been worse if DOT's original plan to ban left turns at 12 additional intersections. 

You keep saying buses need to start moving but you and DOT haven't provided a single iota of evidence why bus lanes are needed outside of the peak. Buses already traveling a 30 mph do not need to travel any faster. I thought safety was important to you. 

As far as TSP goes, I am amazed that you believe whatever BS DOT and the MTA puts out. I originally thought that TSP was a great idea even though it doesn't help cars. But they have been talking about it as a selling point for SBS since 2007. So why in ten years is it still only available at a handful of locations? Obviously they are not telling us the whole story and are only interested in using it as a selling point and not to make improvements.

So now I have become suspicious if it really will even help that much or maybe it would make traffic congestion even worse. Obviously, you can't help everyone. What happens at intersections where you gave two crossing bus routes, how do you decide who has priority and how do we know that helping one route won't totally mess up the timings on the other? So far it is all talk. When I actually see it in wide operation, if ever, then I will draw conclusions as to if it is worthwhile or not. 

 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Of course you won't answer any of my questions so I am not going to continue to debate with you. If there is an intersection that is especially dangerous or one where walk times need to get adjusted, of course those issues need to be addressed but this has nothing t do with exclusive bus lanes or SBS. So stop trying to deflect the discussion. 

I have crossed Woodhaven Blvd a number of times and never had any problems. Last year I observed Woodhaven and Metropolitan for ten minutes to see if new islands as DOT was proposing was really necessary. What I saw was buses traveling at 30 mph which meant that no exclusive lane was necessary. Also, there were only three pedestrians crossing the street, all of whom had adequate time to cross the street walking slowly, and fifty cars waiting and making left turns that DOT was trying to ban. I saw no justification for islands or for banning the left turn that DOT since changed their mind about. As bad as traffic is now, it would even have been worse if DOT's original plan to ban left turns at 12 additional intersections. 

You keep saying buses need to start moving but you and DOT haven't provided a single iota of evidence why bus lanes are needed outside of the peak. Buses already traveling a 30 mph do not need to travel any faster. I thought safety was important to you. 

As far as TSP goes, I am amazed that you believe whatever BS DOT and the MTA puts out. I originally thought that TSP was a great idea even though it doesn't help cars. But they have been talking about it as a selling point for SBS since 2007. So why in ten years is it still only available at a handful of locations? Obviously they are not telling us the whole story and are only interested in using it as a selling point and not to make improvements.

So now I have become suspicious if it really will even help that much or maybe it would make traffic congestion even worse. Obviously, you can't help everyone. What happens at intersections where you gave two crossing bus routes, how do you decide who has priority and how do we know that helping one route won't totally mess up the timings on the other? So far it is all talk. When I actually see it in wide operation, if ever, then I will draw conclusions as to if it is worthwhile or not. 

 

 

What questions do you have that I've been avoiding?  As for why bus lanes are needed 24/7... Because buses should not have to sit in any traffic, regardless of whether or not you haven't seen such instances.  I've been on QM15 buses that have been stuck along Woodhaven Blvd and support 24/7 bus lanes because those sacrificing and taking public transit should get priority over drivers. 

[BrooklynBus]

3 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

The articulated buses on the Q52 and Q53, along with the bus lanes with off-board fare collection are steps in the right direction towards improving transit on Woodhaven Blvd. But make no mistake, that’s exactly what they are - steps. SBS shouldn’t be the permanent solution. The permanent solution is to rebuild the nearby abandoned Rockaway Beach branch for subway service and extend the ,  or a possible second Second Ave Subway service onto the branch. 

I’m fully aware we have a thread for that in the subway forum. I’ve posted many times in favor of putting subways on the old LIRR branch because I believe that is the best solution as far as offering a superior public transit alternative to the madness otherwise known as driving on Woodhaven and Cross Bay boulevards. And yes, it is madness. I’ve driven on Woodhaven and Cross Bay enough times to know. Either you sit in heavy traffic or you deal with reckless, selfish drivers who are only too happy to speed up once the traffic breaks up. There’s got to be a better way to travel from North Queens to South Queens than that.

I also drive on Woodhaven. Have not yet been on it since the 24/7 bus lanes. And I can tell you most if the time outside of rush hours or summer beach traffic it is a breeze when the lights are synced correctly. A few times I have driven from the Belt to Queens Blvd on one green signal in only ten minutes. With about three signals it is 15 minutes. Usually it takes about 20. When the lights are badly out of sync, I have hit 15 red lights and of course they all turn red just as you get there. Then the trip can take 30 minutes even without traffic. But an hour or an hour and a quarter in a car is just unacceptable for about a six mile trip. 

When I drove in rush hour years ago, it was only really bad about two or three times a week, not every day. Even with all that, it was always still better than Ocean Parkway which is a similar roadway but without the trucks and buses. Now I am sure it is equally as bad or even worse than Ocean Parkway. I will find out how bad when I use it next. 

[Far Rock Depot]

On 11/3/2017 at 10:17 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That unused right of way doesn't run the length of Woodhaven Blvd, and it's cheaper to spend millions on SBS service than billions on a subway.  It's very clear that something is needed along Woodhaven Blvd despite your denials.  You've written several articles on this Woodhaven Blvd situation now and while I partially agree with you, you've also done your own finagling of data to suit your agenda, so let's cut the BS here, like trying to underplay just how many riders use the buses along that corridor. Do you really think that artics aren't needed on the Q52 and Q53 just because you drove along there or took the bus a few times and happened to get on a bus that wasn't packed beyond belief?  I tutored in that area for several months on Saturday mornings. I would take the QM15 in from Midtown and QM15 out.  During my waits, I had a chance to see the overcrowding and sometimes would even use one of the buses to get me further up Woodhaven Blvd to have access to the BM5 when I finished early so I could get back to Manhattan quicker versus waiting longer for the QM15 and there were times when they would have empty buses start further up Woodhaven Blvd to address the overcrowding, so I don't doubt the ridership nor the need for artics.  You can talk about the cars traveling down that corridor all you want.  Buses should take priority over cars in this city.

In due time, the DOT can see how to accommodate drivers, but not before addressing the needs of those using public transportation despite all of the reasons you've provided. I understand that there are gaps in service that makes driving a necessity, but at the same time we cannot continue with the status quo.  Taking public transportation is a sacrifice that millions of New Yorkers make, even those of us that live in "transit deserts" like myself where there are no subways (the nearest subway for me is about a 20 minute walk).  If we don't start somewhere, we'll have a problem that only worsens with more and more of our streets turning into parking lots.  How about you do an article on how the city and the DOT needs to put a cap on the number of Uber and Lyft cars because they are causing an incredible amount of congestion in this city.  Those who haven't ditched the buses and subways for driving are now taking Ubers and that simply isn't sustainable given our finite amount of street space.  

actually the Row Does run the length until the LIRR main line. The new line can tunnel from just south of the LIRR main line to the QBL. Its why theres bellmouths by the Rego Park subway Station.

And SBS originally was a short term solution to be in place until planned subway lines are in place i.e. Second Ave. 

[Far Rock Depot]

4 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

The articulated buses on the Q52 and Q53, along with the bus lanes with off-board fare collection are steps in the right direction towards improving transit on Woodhaven Blvd. But make no mistake, that’s exactly what they are - steps. SBS shouldn’t be the permanent solution. The permanent solution is to rebuild the nearby abandoned Rockaway Beach branch for subway service and extend the ,  or a possible second Second Ave Subway service onto the branch. 

I’m fully aware we have a thread for that in the subway forum. I’ve posted many times in favor of putting subways on the old LIRR branch because I believe that is the best solution as far as offering a superior public transit alternative to the madness otherwise known as driving on Woodhaven and Cross Bay boulevards. And yes, it is madness. I’ve driven on Woodhaven and Cross Bay enough times to know. Either you sit in heavy traffic or you deal with reckless, selfish drivers who are only too happy to speed up once the traffic breaks up. There’s got to be a better way to travel from North Queens to South Queens than that.

THIS!!!

[BrooklynBus]

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What questions do you have that I've been avoiding?  As for why bus lanes are needed 24/7... Because buses should not have to sit in any traffic, regardless of whether or not you haven't seen such instances.  I've been on QM15 buses that have been stuck along Woodhaven Blvd and support 24/7 bus lanes because those sacrificing and taking public transit should get priority over drivers. 

Questions not answered:

Why don't you thank DOT for making you cross Woodhaven Blvd twice as many times with the new median (since it seems to be such a problem for you)?

Were you in the crosswalk every tine you weren't given the right of way? 

If drivers do not give you the right of way, is it fair to blame them for trying to save a minute after DOT just added 20 minutes to their commute? By the way DOT promised the drive would also be quicker for drivers because of LESS congestion.

Are the cars flying up the roadway in the middle of the block (where pedestrians are not affected if legally crossing) or are they flying through red lights? 

Do you start crossing at the beginning of the green cycle since you claim there is not enough time or do you start with the flashing red walk signal or timer at 15 seconds or less? 

If there isn't enough time to cross why can't you just wait on the pedestrian refuge island which is why they are there instead of running across? Are you just too impatient for that? But you have no problem with drivers have no to wait for two or theee green signals to cross an intersection. They have no right to be impatient because of that but you do have that right.

You can't seem to realize that there are legitimate uses why someone needs a car and can't take a bus. It's not that everyone in a car doesn't want to be caught dead in a bus. Yes there are some people like that. But most would change their mind if you give them a service that is a real improvement and has advantages over them taking their car. SBS doesn't do that especially when you are going to cut service when you convert the route to SBS. Waiting 15 minutes instead of 12 makes up for the few seconds you might save by passengers not dipping their cards. 

And if you hate anyone with a car as you seem to do, you shouldn't be accepting car rides when one is offered to you. You should tell them to their face they shouldn't be driving. See how many fights you get into if you do that. 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 11/17/2017 at 7:02 PM, BrooklynBus said:

Questions not answered:

1. Why don't you thank DOT for making you cross Woodhaven Blvd twice as many times with the new median (since it seems to be such a problem for you)?

2. Were you in the crosswalk every tine you weren't given the right of way? 

-If drivers do not give you the right of way, is it fair to blame them for trying to save a minute after DOT just added 20 minutes to their commute? By the way DOT promised the drive would also be quicker for drivers because of LESS congestion.

-Are the cars flying up the roadway in the middle of the block (where pedestrians are not affected if legally crossing) or are they flying through red lights? 

-Do you start crossing at the beginning of the green cycle since you claim there is not enough time or do you start with the flashing red walk signal or timer at 15 seconds or less? 

-If there isn't enough time to cross why can't you just wait on the pedestrian refuge island which is why they are there instead of running across? Are you just too impatient for that? But you have no problem with drivers have no to wait for two or theee green signals to cross an intersection. They have no right to be impatient because of that but you do have that right.

3. You can't seem to realize that there are legitimate uses why someone needs a car and can't take a bus. It's not that everyone in a car doesn't want to be caught dead in a bus. Yes there are some people like that. But most would change their mind if you give them a service that is a real improvement and has advantages over them taking their car. SBS doesn't do that especially when you are going to cut service when you convert the route to SBS. Waiting 15 minutes instead of 12 makes up for the few seconds you might save by passengers not dipping their cards. 

4. And if you hate anyone with a car as you seem to do, you shouldn't be accepting car rides when one is offered to you. You should tell them to their face they shouldn't be driving. See how many fights you get into if you do that. 

 

1. All of my comments regarding crossing where before these changes came about, so as much as you dislike them, as a pedestrian, they were a necessity.

2. I don't see what difference it makes, but I had the light (always crossing at the corner) and just because you have the light doesn't mean that there weren't cars turning onto Woodhaven.  Given how wide the street was and the fact there really weren't many places to wait safely, the best thing to do was run across or walk across quickly.

-Um, no because cars should yield to pedestrians when they have the light to cross, but along Woodhaven Blvd they usually don't bother.

-Cars were flying up Woodhaven Blvd everywhere. That's the point.  Pedestrians should have enough time to cross and feel safely doing so.

-Why should I have to wait two lights to cross one bloody intersection.  I know you may not think so, but pedestrians have places to go to, and I wanted to make it to the QM15 stop in time not to miss it.

3. I realize it very well.  Again, we only have but so much capacity and we have to maximize it.  Given how many in this city use public transit to get around, they should take priority since they help to lessen congestion.  Having one person per car causes more congestion versus having 50 - 75 people per bus.

4. No what I hate is people that insist on driving everywhere and are inconsiderate of others around them, as many drivers are along Woodhaven and Cross Bay Blvd.  I accepted your ride because we were coming from a transportation meeting, where ironically my options of getting back to Manhattan were extremely limited. I had just got up and spoke about the need to restore the B4 and the BM3 and run weekend service by having the  serve Sheepshead Bay, and got down there with the BM3 express bus. My option would've been taking the B44 to the B36 to reach the subway, so yes I accepted your ride, and I would've done the same for you. That has nothing to do with this topic at hand though.  What was good is that you had me and the other gentlemen in your car instead of one person in a car. I'm not against drivers.  I'm against not maximizing our road ways.  Those who carpool should definitely be rewarded in some fashion. If we didn't have this congestion problem, I couldn't care less how people got around, but the fact is we don't have the space for everyone to drive, so we need more people using public transit or at least carpooling as much as possible.

[P3F]

Legitimate question -- why is it not possible to have bus lanes be on the service road of a main boulevard such as Woodhaven Boulevard or Kings Highway?

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, P3F said:

Legitimate question -- why is it not possible to have bus lanes be on the service road of a main boulevard such as Woodhaven Boulevard or Kings Highway?

It certainly is possible. I also believe it is advisable. I never understood why the buses were ever put in the main road of Kings Highway anyway. They would not be any slower in the service road since there is never much traffic on either the main road or service road. The buses now average over 20 mph on Kings Highway with a speed limit of 25 mph so how could they even go any faster on the main road? There are only two possible reasons for exclusive bus lanes on the main road: to cause congestion and slow down traffic or because the MTA needs two features to call it SBS. Wider spaced bus stops, articulated buses, fare prepayment, or exclusive lanes. Without exclusive lanes, the only other feature that would qualify the B82 for SBS is fare prepayment. 

The B14 used to operate on the main road of Eastern Parkway in both directions. It was moved to the service road about sixty years ago. Why did they move that route to the service road but not the B5 and B7? 

[BrooklynBus]

23 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

1. All of my comments regarding crossing where before these changes came about, so as much as you dislike them, as a pedestrian, they were a necessity.

2. I don't see what difference it makes, but I had the light (always crossing at the corner) and just because you have the light doesn't mean that there weren't cars turning onto Woodhaven.  Given how wide the street was and the fact there really weren't many places to wait safely, the best thing to do was run across or walk across quickly.

-Um, no because cars should yield to pedestrians when they have the light to cross, but along Woodhaven Blvd they usually don't bother.

-Cars were flying up Woodhaven Blvd everywhere. That's the point.  Pedestrians should have enough time to cross and feel safely doing so.

-Why should I have to wait two lights to cross one bloody intersection.  I know you may not think so, but pedestrians have places to go to, and I wanted to make it to the QM15 stop in time not to miss it.

3. I realize it very well.  Again, we only have but so much capacity and we have to maximize it.  Given how many in this city use public transit to get around, they should take priority since they help to lessen congestion.  Having one person per car causes more congestion versus having 50 - 75 people per bus.

4. No what I hate is people that insist on driving everywhere and are inconsiderate of others around them, as many drivers are along Woodhaven and Cross Bay Blvd.  I accepted your ride because we were coming from a transportation meeting, where ironically my options of getting back to Manhattan were extremely limited. I had just got up and spoke about the need to restore the B4 and the BM3 and run weekend service by having the  serve Sheepshead Bay, and got down there with the BM3 express bus. My option would've been taking the B44 to the B36 to reach the subway, so yes I accepted your ride, and I would've done the same for you. That has nothing to do with this topic at hand though.  What was good is that you had me and the other gentlemen in your car instead of one person in a car. I'm not against drivers.  I'm against not maximizing our road ways.  Those who carpool should definitely be rewarded in some fashion. If we didn't have this congestion problem, I couldn't care less how people got around, but the fact is we don't have the space for everyone to drive, so we need more people using public transit or at least carpooling as much as possible.

1. So you are not denying that the medians are causing you inconvenience by requiring you to cross the street twice as often.

2. So you don't see what difference it makes if you were in the crosswalk or not when cars didn't give you the right of way? And cars turning and not giving you the right of way is certainly not only a problem on Woodhaven and is in no way justification for SBS or the exclusive bus lanes. In fact it's quite the opposite. Delaying drivers as this project has done just makes them more anxious and less likely for them to give you the right of way. 

Again you didn't answer if you started at the beginning of the green cycle or not. The walk time is at least 30 seconds or maybe even 45, more than enough time to safely cross the street unless maybe if you are using a walker or on crutches. Of course if you start when the hand is already flashing you might have to run cross. I suspect that is what is happening. 

3. Again you are talking theory when it comes to the capacity of buses versus cars. Yes, a bus can theoretically has the capacity to hold what twelve cars hold. But in actuality every car does not hold five passengers and every bus does not carry 70 passengers. What matters is reality and as I have previously explained, the ten minute savings that SBS may provide for someone's 90 minute trip is just not an incentive enough for the average person to switch from his car to the bus. How many gave switched from car to bus because of the other 14 SBS routes? I doubt it if it is more than a handful. 

4. And you are so sure that most drivers on Woodhaven have a realistic option to take the bus, not knowing where any of their trips are originating from or where they are destined to go? Come on now. You just justified why you accepted my ride because your other options were all very poor. So why can't you accept the same is true for those who choose to drive on Woodhaven? I am also for carpooling whenever possible which is why I suggested the bus lanes also carry HOVs. 

[Art Vandelay]

Got to ride the Q53 yesterday, PM Shoulder, a little before 3PM. 
A few notes:
- Boarded at Queens Boulevard. The Q52 that was loading ended up SRO upon departure. 
-Missed first Q53 due to metrocard issues. 
-Second Q53 came, roughly 2/3rds of a scheduled headway after the first. It was SRO upon departure despite that. I boarded
-The bus lanes are glorious. Despite traffic not seeming substantially different, we got a jump on every light, 
-Off board fare collection certainly reduces wait time at stops, however contrary to what I expected, it seems to me as if the lanes are what is really speeding up the Q52/53
-Still slow on Cross Bay. They should add bus lanes there too. 
- Traffic appeared nearly unchanged from before. I strongly suspect that the claims people are making of severely lengthened commute times are entirely fabricated. 

 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

6 hours ago, Art Vandelay said:

Got to ride the Q53 yesterday, PM Shoulder, a little before 3PM. 
A few notes:
- Boarded at Queens Boulevard. The Q52 that was loading ended up SRO upon departure. 
-Missed first Q53 due to metrocard issues. 
-Second Q53 came, roughly 2/3rds of a scheduled headway after the first. It was SRO upon departure despite that. I boarded
-The bus lanes are glorious. Despite traffic not seeming substantially different, we got a jump on every light, 
-Off board fare collection certainly reduces wait time at stops, however contrary to what I expected, it seems to me as if the lanes are what is really speeding up the Q52/53
-Still slow on Cross Bay. They should add bus lanes there too. 
- Traffic appeared nearly unchanged from before. I strongly suspect that the claims people are making of severely lengthened commute times are entirely fabricated. 

 

Glad to hear the bus lanes are making it a better ride. They should be doing just that. Hope to see them on Cross Bay too, but with no service roads on Cross Bay, the buses may have a tougher go at it with cars pulling in and out of the parking lanes. Maybe they can employ "bulb-outs," where the sidewalks are extended out at the bus stops. And why not? Bus stops are always no-parking zones, so why not make it easier for passengers to get over to the bus without having to step off a curb? That might work better on Cross Bay.

On 11/17/2017 at 6:25 PM, BrooklynBus said:

I also drive on Woodhaven. Have not yet been on it since the 24/7 bus lanes. And I can tell you most if the time outside of rush hours or summer beach traffic it is a breeze when the lights are synced correctly. A few times I have driven from the Belt to Queens Blvd on one green signal in only ten minutes. With about three signals it is 15 minutes. Usually it takes about 20. When the lights are badly out of sync, I have hit 15 red lights and of course they all turn red just as you get there. Then the trip can take 30 minutes even without traffic. But an hour or an hour and a quarter in a car is just unacceptable for about a six mile trip. 

When I drove in rush hour years ago, it was only really bad about two or three times a week, not every day. Even with all that, it was always still better than Ocean Parkway which is a similar roadway but without the trucks and buses. Now I am sure it is equally as bad or even worse than Ocean Parkway. I will find out how bad when I use it next. 

I'm going to have to disagree there. Only once was I able to drive on Woodhaven without too much difficulty, and that was when I went to get pizza at New Park Pizza (I saw good reviews about it... and it was very good pizza so I’m glad I went there) That was on a nice summer night in 2014. And most times I took Woodhaven were on weekends. Ocean Parkway is definitely not any better with having to stop at every light, but at least you've got the  train a few blocks away on McDonald Ave and the  a bit further away between East 16th and East 17th streets. With Woodhaven, we have no such options. Wouldn't it be great if we did?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Glad to hear the bus lanes are making it a better ride. They should be doing just that. Hope to see them on Cross Bay too, but with no service roads on Cross Bay, the buses may have a tougher go at it with cars pulling in and out of the parking lanes. Maybe they can employ "bulb-outs," where the sidewalks are extended out at the bus stops. And why not? Bus stops are always no-parking zones, so why not make it easier for passengers to get over to the bus without having to step off a curb? That might work better on Cross Bay.

I'm going to have to disagree there. Only once was I able to drive on Woodhaven without too much difficulty, and that was when I went to get pizza at New Park Pizza (I saw good reviews about it... and it was very good pizza so I’m glad I went there) That was on a nice summer night in 2014. And most times I took Woodhaven were on weekends. Ocean Parkway is definitely not any better with having to stop at every light, but at least you've got the  train a few blocks away on McDonald Ave and the  a bit further away between East 16th and East 17th streets. With Woodhaven, we have no such options. Wouldn't it be great if we did?

We? He's not from Queens. He's from South Brooklyn like me. You would think he lives in Queens with as much yapping as he does about Woodhaven Blvd, but he doesn't.

[LGA Link N Train]

Fun fact (even though I'm in Woodhaven Boulevard as I'm typing this in a passenger car) in my opinion, its a corridor like no other 

[BrooklynBus]

I finally had a chance to drive on Woodhaven yesterday, the day before Thanksgiving and this is what I saw. Really can't draw any conclusions about traffic since it certainly was not a typical day with many leaving work early or not working at all this week due to the holiday. Also, since I have not driven there recently on a weekday afternoon I can only compare it to a Saturday. Although traffic seemed to be lighter than usual (even lighter on the BQE), the trip from the Belt to Queens Blvd took about three minutes longer. This was not due to traffic but due to the traffic signals at 2:30. It was not possible to get two green lights in a row. Must have hit about 20 red lights. Even when you are going against the lights when they are synced in the opposite direction, you only get about 16 red lights. Usually it's about ten. And when the lights are synced it was once possible to make the entire trip on be green signal with hitting three red lights at the most. 

But what was more interesting than the traffic was how few buses there were. I was traveling northbound and never saw a bus in the northbound bus lane and I passed only two local buses. Southbound there was only one Q53 and two locals. I also counted four not in service buses. All the buses had only a handful of passengers on them. So the question is where are all the buses? They should have been operating on a regular schedule. I can understand the light loads because there were fewer cars also. The waits for the SBS had to be 30 minutes in either direction. Remember I didn't see a single B52 and only one B53 all the way between the Belt and Queens Blvd. 

Will be on Woodhaven again this evening. 

Another interesting point is that my friend from Astoria is meeting me later today at the Cross Bay Diner. She used trip planner to find out how to get there by bus. Trip planner told her there was no way for her to get there. There was no Q53 in the pull down menu. So I tried asking and it told me to take three buses including the Q60 and Q22. It listed an alternative itiniery that did mention the Q52 SBS. Apparently the MTA removed the Q53 Limited from trip planner and never replaced it with the Q53 SBS. If she didn't already know which buses to take most likely she would decide not to make the trip by bus. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

55 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

But what was more interesting than the traffic was how few buses there were. I was traveling northbound and never saw a bus in the northbound bus lane and I passed only two local buses. Southbound there was only one Q53 and two locals. I also counted four not in service buses. All the buses had only a handful of passengers on them. So the question is where are all the buses? They should have been operating on a regular schedule. I can understand the light loads because there were fewer cars also. The waits for the SBS had to be 30 minutes in either direction. Remember I didn't see a single B52 and only one B53 all the way between the Belt and Queens Blvd. 

Will be on Woodhaven again this evening. 

 

The waits were bad, because traffic near QCM was horrendous yesterday. Because there was no bus lanes north of Eliot Avenue, There's no way the Q52 and Q53 could get through that traffic. Backups on Queens Boulevard and the LIE didn't help either.

[BrooklynBus]

6 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The waits were bad, because traffic near QCM was horrendous yesterday. Because there was no bus lanes north of Eliot Avenue, There's no way the Q52 and Q53 could get through that traffic. Backups on Queens Boulevard and the LIE didn't help either.

And who helped to create those backups? DOT with those damn bike lanes used by just a few. 

Today going north, the traffic lights were better although there was more traffic. Long waits at red signals and traffic traveled much slower but the trip did not seem longer. Regarding buses, saw only one bus Q53 (which had standees) all get way from the Belt to Queens Blvd. No locals at all in both directions unless they were all hiding at Atlantic Avenue which I could not see. 

Southbound there were three Q53s and two Q52s. One Q52 and Q53 were back to back on a day with holiday schedule. So I guess any problems north of Queens Blvd caused the bunching. So much more SBS being more reliable. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

41 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

And who helped to create those backups? DOT with those damn bike lanes used by just a few. 

Today going north, the traffic lights were better although there was more traffic. Long waits at red signals and traffic traveled much slower but the trip did not seem longer. Regarding buses, saw only one bus Q53 (which had standees) all get way from the Belt to Queens Blvd. No locals at all in both directions unless they were all hiding at Atlantic Avenue which I could not see. 

Southbound there were three Q53s and two Q52s. One Q52 and Q53 were back to back on a day with holiday schedule. So I guess any problems north of Queens Blvd caused the bunching. So much more SBS being more reliable. 

There you go again yapping. The DOT has already said that they want to see how things go and then they will make adjustments where needed. Calm down.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

42 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

And who helped to create those backups? DOT with those damn bike lanes used by just a few. 

Today going north, the traffic lights were better although there was more traffic. Long waits at red signals and traffic traveled much slower but the trip did not seem longer. Regarding buses, saw only one bus Q53 (which had standees) all get way from the Belt to Queens Blvd. No locals at all in both directions unless they were all hiding at Atlantic Avenue which I could not see. 

Southbound there were three Q53s and two Q52s. One Q52 and Q53 were back to back on a day with holiday schedule. So I guess any problems north of Queens Blvd caused the bunching. So much more SBS being more reliable. 

I would agree if it was a regular occurrence, but its not. It actually is decent throughout the day for the most part. You can't just forget that people travel during Thanksgiving (which was a large part of the backups all over the place yesterday). Not everything is DOT related. Once again, with no bus lanes, buses cannot avoid the extra traffic. Nothing would have helped alleviate those traffic conditions.

 

Tomorrow, I expect the same thing because of shoppers and people going back home. That's just how it is when there's a major area situated where three major roads intersect.

[BrooklynBus]

16 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

There you go again yapping. The DOT has already said that they want to see how things go and then they will make adjustments where needed. Calm down.

One of the changes they need to make us to get rid of the midday and weekend bus lanes. If they don't, everyone in a car can forget about using Woodhaven to go to the beach next year. And they need to allow traffic in the curb lane of Cross Bay on summer weekends. Not just for buses on Saturdays. 

 

[BrooklynBus]

Another story about Woodhaven congestion. Exactly as I predicted two years ago that congestion during the rush hour would extend to all day long while DOT said it would lessen at all times. 

Now they admit there is congestion but say it will go away after drivers "adjust". By they mean take their business elsewhere and shift more trips to the already overcrowded Van Wyck and BQE. Why have they not issued any traffic report after the lanes were installed in Rego Park? Because the results were that bad. 

http://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/transit/2017/11/29/new-sbs-lane-q52-and-q53-routes-turning-woodhaven-boulevard-into-traffic-nightmare

[Brillant93]

On 11/3/2017 at 6:12 PM, FamousNYLover said:

BrooklynBus, take look at this video I found. Majority of Woodhaven-Cross Bay Blvd passengers don't like leaving left behind because of overcrowded bus. I assume this is Q53 heading to Rockaways by JC Penny in background.

Q52/Q53 dies run after Belt Parkway and mostly only several people go to Broad Channel. In summer season, majority of beach goers onboard Q52/Q53 stay on bus to Rockaways, which is good amount of people.

 

Crazy guy aside this is a problem with outer borough bus routes. Routes severely crowded, slow buses, buses bunched together, leap frogging, and so on. I think there should be measures to persuade people to get into buses and make them ride more efficiently. If by all means bus lanes, on board fast payment, articulated buses, and so on so be it. Congestion is terrible and double parked cars and trucks makes it worse.