Union Tpke Posted November 13, 2017 Share #1 Posted November 13, 2017 Service Issue: To ensure that subway schedules accurately match current rider demand, schedules are regularly reviewed, evaluated and revised in order to provide passengers with the most efficient and effective service possible. NYC Transit routinely changes service to reflect changes in ridership demand in compliance with MTA Board-adopted subway loading guidelines. Recommendation: 1. Implement schedule adjustments for the and routes on weekdays and the route on weekends to accommodate additional service based on ridership demand. 2. Implement reroute of express service along the 4 Av line in Brooklyn to accommodate long-term construction work. 3. Modify weekend schedules on the and trains to accommodate long-term construction work on the Queens Blvd Line. Budget Impact: Implementation of the proposed and schedule changes would cost approximately $5.0 million annually, which is consistent with the 2018 operating budget. Proposed Implementation Date: (2) (3) (7) (E) (F) (N) (Q) (R) and (W) train schedule changes would be implemented in June 2018. Staff Summary Purpose: To obtain Presidential approval, and to inform the NYC Transit and MTA Bus Committee, of schedule adjustments on the (2) (3) (7) (N) (Q) and (W) routes to more closely match ridership demand. Additionally, to implement a reroute of (N) express service along the 4 Av line in Brooklyn to accommodate long-term construction work, and to modify weekend schedules on the (E) (F) and (R) trains to accommodate long-term construction work on the Queens Blvd line. Discussion: Changes Recommended per Ridership Demand and Loading Guidelines The schedule adjustments on the (2) (3) (7) (N) (Q) and (W) routes are a product of NYC Transit's continuing effort to review and revise subway schedules, when feasible, to ensure that they accurately meet customer demand and are in compliance with MTA Board-adopted loading guidelines. The schedule changes outlined below would be implemented with the June 2018 Pick. These changes represent service adjustments during the weekday morning rush period, weekday evenings, and weekends to more closely align service with observed customer demand and established guidelines for subway operation. Basic information about these proposed adjustments is outlined below, and additional details are shown in Attachment 1 (see below). • Two additional (2) train roundtrips would be operated on weekdays between approximately 9:00 p.m. and 11:00 p.m. • One additional (3) train roundtrip would be operated on weekdays between approximately 10:00 p.m. and 10:30 p.m. • Four additional (7) train roundtrips would be operated on Saturdays between approximately 6:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. • Eight additional northbound (7) trains roundtrips would be operated on Sundays between approximately 4:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. • Two additional weekday a.m. peak (N) or (W) train roundtrips would be operated between approximately 6:00 a.m. and 7:00 a.m. • One additional midday southbound (N) or (W) train roundtrip would be operated between approximately 10:30 a.m. and 11:00 a.m. • One additional evening (N) or (W) train roundtrip would be operated between approximately 11:30 p.m. and midnight. • Two additional evening (Q) train roundtrips would be operated, one between approximately 8:00 p.m. and 8:30 p.m. and the other between approximately 10:00 p.m. and 10:30 p.m. NYCT routinely observes ridership of all subway lines at key locations throughout the day and, where feasible, recommends changes in frequency as warranted per MTA Board-adopted loading guidelines. Based on the ridership data collected, weekday evening northbound ridership volumes on the lines warrant three additional trips, which would shorten average headways and supply the additional capacity needed to bring ridership levels within guidelines. Weekend evening ridership volumes on the line warrant the addition of four northbound trips on Saturday and eight northbound trips on Sunday. Average a.m. peak hour southbound ridership volumes on the Astoria line warrant two additional trips, which would shorten average headways and supply the additional capacity needed to bring ridership levels within guidelines. Additionally, one additional southbound midday trip and one additional northbound evening trip along the Astoria line is warranted and will be added to shorten average headways and provide additional capacity. Because the and lines share a timetable and work program, for scheduling and crewing purposes, they are generally treated as one line. Ridership observations also showed that two additional trips are warranted in the evening on southbound trains heading to Brooklyn. Changes Recommended to Accommodate Long-term Construction Projects In addition to the schedule adjustments listed above, additional schedule adjustments are recommended to accommodate long-term planned construction work. Structural work on the 4 Av express tracks in Brooklyn require express trains to be rerouted to operate via the local tracks between 36 St and 59 St for approximately 12 months starting in mid-2018. Due to the long-term nature of this project, this change will be included in schedules starting in Spring 2018. 4 Av express service and 4 Av local service will continue to run normally. Long-term construction work to install Communications Based Train Control (CBTC) along the Queens Blvd. line is scheduled to last through 2022. During this time, weekend construction work will be taking place along Queens Blvd. on nearly all weekends. Most weekend construction service plans call for the and trains to share a single track in at least one direction of travel. When this happens, each of the three services can only operate five trains per hour due to slow travel speeds through work zones combined with current signal system limitations. This has been already been a common occurrence for the last year on most weekends along Queens Blvd., and including this in the Saturday and Sunday schedules formalizes a service plan that is regularly taking place and which makes the provision of service more cost efficient. Operation of this plan is projected to result in ridership loads in excess of off-peak guidelines on the and lines at some times of day, as is the case on many lines that are affected by weekend construction. Upon conclusion of this construction work, where feasible, and weekend service would be restored to frequencies warranted by ridership in compliance with MTA Board-adopted loading guidelines. Recommendation: Implement schedule adjustments on the and routes. Alternatives: Do nothing. NYCT would not make and service adjustments to better reflect actual current operating conditions, nor and service adjustments to more efficiently accommodate necessary long-term construction projects. Budget Impact: Implementation of the proposed and schedule changes would cost approximately $5.0 million annually, which is consistent with the 2018 operating budget. Implementation Date: (2) (R) and (W) schedule changes would be implemented in June 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spypenguin Posted November 13, 2017 Share #2 Posted November 13, 2017 I'm looking forward to taking the to 45 St during midday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R42N Posted November 13, 2017 Share #3 Posted November 13, 2017 36 minutes ago, Spypenguin said: I'm looking forward to taking the to 45 St during midday. Here’s the problem: Under this configuration the merges way, way, way too much. It’ll merge with the 4th Ave Local at 59th Street, the at 36th Street, the and other madness at DeKalb, the and once again at 34th Street, which is way too many mergers. I proposed this a while ago, and it is quite the rescheduling for a one-year re-route, but here’s my thought: Run the in it’s pre-bridge configuration: via Montague (except weekends), from Ditmars to Coney Island via Broadway, Montague, 4th Avenue Local. That way there is no merging that would slow the dramatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted November 13, 2017 Share #4 Posted November 13, 2017 If the reverted back to its '88-'94 route, riders would likely bail for the at any Broadway express stop. Sure, you've removed all of the merging, but you've also made the route completely undesirable as anything more than a shuttle to another line. We already have that; it's called the train. Any time savings gained by a lack of merging delays is completely negated by forcing riders to transfer to the and/or to actually get somewhere in a timely fashion. The present is not perfect, but it works well given the constraints. A 24/7 via Whitehall would only be acceptable if the Manhattan Bridge went tits up again. For anything short of a catastrophic failure of the Bridge, keep the on the bridge and let the and handle Lower Manhattan and the Whitehall corridor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted November 13, 2017 Share #5 Posted November 13, 2017 16 minutes ago, Lance said: If the reverted back to its '88-'94 route, riders would likely bail for the at any Broadway express stop. Sure, you've removed all of the merging, but you've also made the route completely undesirable as anything more than a shuttle to another line. We already have that; it's called the train. Any time savings gained by a lack of merging delays is completely negated by forcing riders to transfer to the and/or to actually get somewhere in a timely fashion. The present is not perfect, but it works well given the constraints. A 24/7 via Whitehall would only be acceptable if the Manhattan Bridge went tits up again. For anything short of a catastrophic failure of the Bridge, keep the on the bridge and let the and handle Lower Manhattan and the Whitehall corridor. Except for those heading for lower Manhattan from Sea Beach that would benefit from the running via 4th Avenue Local and the Tunnel along with those along the 4th Avenue local route and lower Manhattan when the is messed up where they can at least get to 59th Street-4th Avenue on the (N). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted November 13, 2017 Share #6 Posted November 13, 2017 Small subset versus the much larger majority. You cannot guarantee everyone a one-seat ride. That's why there are options like the and setup in Queens and the and setup in Brooklyn for express/local options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share #7 Posted November 14, 2017 The change in Astoria is long overdue. Service has been horrible with the track work and the shutdown at 30th and 36th. On multiple occasions, T/Os have stopped there with C/Os opening doors. In addition, with the loss of service, there was a service cut. service started at around 6:20, while service starts at around 7:00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted November 14, 2017 Share #8 Posted November 14, 2017 I wish they could run the 6th and trains from 96th. Service on those 2 lines -- in BK especially -- is abysmal on weekends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R42N Posted November 14, 2017 Share #9 Posted November 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Union Tpke said: The change in Astoria is long overdue. Service has been horrible with the track work and the shutdown at 30th and 36th. On multiple occasions, T/Os have stopped there with C/Os opening doors. In addition, with the loss of service, there was a service cut. service started at around 6:20, while service starts at around 7:00. As someone who lives in Astoria, I also notice a lack of urgency with dispatching ’s. For example, when there was both the and the , there was a real need to get both the and out on-time since they are both main routes. Now, whenever there is a delay of over seven minutes after the previous , they will skip the and send out a second consecutive , since the is supplemental. 3 hours ago, Wallyhorse said: Except for those heading for lower Manhattan from Sea Beach that would benefit from the running via 4th Avenue Local and the Tunnel along with those along the 4th Avenue local route and lower Manhattan when the is messed up where they can at least get to 59th Street-4th Avenue on the (N). As Lance said, when you help one guy out, you cripple another, but I don’t see why, for only one year, you want to have 6+ mergers on a line that could only have 2 under this proposal. 4 hours ago, Lance said: If the reverted back to its '88-'94 route, riders would likely bail for the at any Broadway express stop. Sure, you've removed all of the merging, but you've also made the route completely undesirable as anything more than a shuttle to another line. We already have that; it's called the train. Any time savings gained by a lack of merging delays is completely negated by forcing riders to transfer to the and/or to actually get somewhere in a timely fashion. The present is not perfect, but it works well given the constraints. A 24/7 via Whitehall would only be acceptable if the Manhattan Bridge went tits up again. For anything short of a catastrophic failure of the Bridge, keep the on the bridge and let the and handle Lower Manhattan and the Whitehall corridor. I’m not so sure, the , and all serve Midtown Manhattan via Bridge Express. The is the only line on that corridor that goes fully local via the Financial District. The reason I’m positive the MTA will not do this is that this is only for one year, it’s quite a dramatic re-structuring, only to revert it back the following year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share #10 Posted November 14, 2017 My teacher was late this morning because she had to wait 20 minutes at Ditmars for a train to come. There was no communication. One more thing, apparently, recently they misplaced the Allen key, which explains a lot of what my friend calls "N/W" trains, in which some cars are signed as N and others are signed as W. Also, track work that was supposed to be done over the summer is still not completed. They really need to get their act together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R42N Posted November 14, 2017 Share #11 Posted November 14, 2017 30 minutes ago, Union Tpke said: My teacher was late this morning because she had to wait 20 minutes at Ditmars for a train to come. There was no communication. One more thing, apparently, recently they misplaced the Allen key, which explains a lot of what my friend calls "N/W" trains, in which some cars are signed as N and others are signed as W. Also, track work that was supposed to be done over the summer is still not completed. They really need to get their act together! This issue could be avoided if the place 2-3 sets on the , and the other 2-3 sets on the . Instead, they place 4 R68s on the and 1 on the , and often place the R68 ’s back to back, which means that if anything happens with the , two r68’s will be at Ditmars, and they will try to switch the roll signs quickly. It’s only 5 sets of R68’s, I really don’t get why they put 3 on one line and 2 on the other, and evenly space them so nothing happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted November 14, 2017 Share #12 Posted November 14, 2017 2 hours ago, R42N said: As Lance said, when you help one guy out, you cripple another, but I don’t see why, for only one year, you want to have 6+ mergers on a line that could only have 2 under this proposal. Sure you only have two mergers but now you've made all of South Brooklyn's commutes twice as long and overcrowded the train into oblivion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted November 14, 2017 Share #13 Posted November 14, 2017 Ugh they still insist on running 3 Queens Blvd Services on a single track on weekends? They're planning 12 min headways for each line meaning a train every 4 mins, while having trains terminate at 71st Ave and slow speed orders? How much quicker can CBTC be installed if they did line shutdowns? 5 years seems excessive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R42N Posted November 14, 2017 Share #14 Posted November 14, 2017 6 hours ago, Around the Horn said: Sure you only have two mergers but now you've made all of South Brooklyn's commutes twice as long and overcrowded the train into oblivion... All? You’re saying every Sea Beach rider wants to go to Midtown Manhattan, not the Financial District? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted November 14, 2017 Share #15 Posted November 14, 2017 18 hours ago, Wallyhorse said: Except for those heading for lower Manhattan from Sea Beach that would benefit from the running via 4th Avenue Local and the Tunnel along with those along the 4th Avenue local route and lower Manhattan when the is messed up where they can at least get to 59th Street-4th Avenue on the (N). Have you considered the number of people it harms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted November 14, 2017 Share #16 Posted November 14, 2017 6 hours ago, R42N said: All? You’re saying every Sea Beach rider wants to go to Midtown Manhattan, not the Financial District? The overwhelming majority do (and that includes train riders transferring to the like myself). I'd guess its at least 85% above Canal St, 15% Lower Manhattan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted November 14, 2017 Share #17 Posted November 14, 2017 8 hours ago, R42N said: All? You’re saying every Sea Beach rider wants to go to Midtown Manhattan, not the Financial District? 21 hours ago, Wallyhorse said: Except for those heading for lower Manhattan from Sea Beach that would benefit from the running via 4th Avenue Local and the Tunnel along with those along the 4th Avenue local route and lower Manhattan when the is messed up where they can at least get to 59th Street-4th Avenue on the (N). Then just extend the to the Sea Beach Line, perhaps to 8th Ave or Bay Parkway (could make the temporary platforms at either of those stations permanent). Why make the a 24/7 local that people will bail on at 36th or Pacific for the or DeKalb for the ? At least if you extend the , there’s your direct line to the Financial District. In fact, the would put you right there, unlike a local , which would leave you some distance away. It would also be more convenient for Chinatown, if slower than the , due to stopping on the upper level at Canal and Centre. I mean, do you guys really miss the running local 24/7 via Montague that much? Most Sea Beach riders don’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelestor Posted November 14, 2017 Share #18 Posted November 14, 2017 14 hours ago, N6 Limited said: Ugh they still insist on running 3 Queens Blvd Services on a single track on weekends? They're planning 12 min headways for each line meaning a train every 4 mins, while having trains terminate at 71st Ave and slow speed orders? How much quicker can CBTC be installed if they did line shutdowns? 5 years seems excessive. I would rather run the and at 8 minute intervals and reroute the to Astoria. Don't see any huge issues with running the local south of 36 St. The doesn't run frequently enough to cause major merging issues. In no case should the be rerouted via Lower Manhattan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted November 14, 2017 Share #19 Posted November 14, 2017 24 minutes ago, Caelestor said: I would rather run the and at 8 minute intervals and reroute the to Astoria. Don't see any huge issues with running the local south of 36 St. The doesn't run frequently enough to cause major merging issues. In no case should the be rerouted via Lower Manhattan. I think they run the in Queens to provide Broadway Service and easy connection to the Lex. But I agree, just run the at 8 or 10 min intervals and turn the at Queens Plaza. Also, would it make sense to send the in pairs so that the crews have more time between trains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted November 14, 2017 Share #20 Posted November 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Caelestor said: Don't see any huge issues with running the local south of 36 St. The doesn't run frequently enough to cause major merging issues. You clearly don't use 4th Avenue during rush hour then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted November 14, 2017 Share #21 Posted November 14, 2017 Well, I wasn’t being entirely serious about extending the to the Sea Beach line, given all the mixed feelings over extending the to South Brooklyn in past threads on the forums over the years. I have actually seriously suggested it in the past, only to get flamed for it. This time, I suggested it to show that I’d much prefer an extension of the to South Brooklyn over returning the to the Montague Tunnel and 24/7 local service in Brooklyn and Manhattan. But on a more serious note, the extension would run either with R160s or 179s (so it’s not like we’d be able to do it right away). And the would stay express in Brooklyn and Manhattan and on the bridge - the way it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted November 15, 2017 Share #22 Posted November 15, 2017 1 hour ago, T to Dyre Avenue said: Well, I wasn’t being entirely serious about extending the to the Sea Beach line, given all the mixed feelings over extending the to South Brooklyn in past threads on the forums over the years. I have actually seriously suggested it in the past, only to get flamed for it. This time, I suggested it to show that I’d much prefer an extension of the to South Brooklyn over returning the to the Montague Tunnel and 24/7 local service in Brooklyn and Manhattan. But on a more serious note, the extension would run either with R160s or 179s (so it’s not like we’d be able to do it right away). And the would stay express in Brooklyn and Manhattan and on the bridge - the way it is now. Then the would become an unreliably long route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JubaionBx12+SBS Posted November 15, 2017 Share #23 Posted November 15, 2017 It's nice to see the MTA addressing service in the evening. I've yet to ride a to the Bronx in the evening that wasn't crowded. Other than that some extra service better be put in place on weekends. 12 minute headways on the any of the QBL lines is unacceptable. If possible I would run 6-7 minute headways on the weekend . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted November 15, 2017 Share #24 Posted November 15, 2017 17 hours ago, N6 Limited said: Ugh they still insist on running 3 Queens Blvd Services on a single track on weekends? They're planning 12 min headways for each line meaning a train every 4 mins, while having trains terminate at 71st Ave and slow speed orders? How much quicker can CBTC be installed if they did line shutdowns? 5 years seems excessive. I understand the frustration. As much as I like the services making all stops (because the is just not enough), perhaps the should terminate elsewhere on weekends for the duration of the project. The and running every 12 minutes will not be enough. Queens Plaza can be the terminal (like it was done a while ago, and like mentioned above). 96 Street can be a backup option should anything else arise or go wrong, because there are connections to the available at Lexington Avenue-63 Street. Making into THE primary option would then create a lack of yard access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrivera Posted November 15, 2017 Share #25 Posted November 15, 2017 2 hours ago, JubaionBx12+SBS said: If possible I would run 6-7 minute headways on the weekend . The used to run 8 minute headways before the 2010 doomsday cuts. This is one of the few cuts that still hasn't been restored. 20 hours ago, N6 Limited said: They're planning 12 min headways for each line meaning a train every 4 mins, while having trains terminate at 71st Ave and slow speed orders? I'd shut the whole thing down every weekend until the work is done and replace it with the LIRR and buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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