Canarsie Shutdown fleet swap thread

[Bill from Maspeth]

On 12/17/2017 at 6:01 PM, Interested Rider said:

The 32's will not go to  the B as if there is a problem on the southern end, it cannot go through the Montague Street tunnel.

So it will be the A & C.

Thank you.  At least somebody gets that R32's won't be assigned to the southern end because the possibility exists that the railroad can go down the toilet and a B train could have already left Prospect Park and the bridge gets shut down.  And transit does not want to take a train out of service at DeKalb that would make a bad situation worse.

[Lawrence St]

So then why not REWIRE the Mountague St tunnels so that R32's can pass through their again?

[S78 via Hylan]

44 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

I just noticed, if the R32's stay on the A past the summer time, they can run em on the extended rockaway park shuttle to rockaway park. That would solve the hvac issue since the shuttle is full length from memorial day to labor day 7 days a week if im correct. The shuttle uses about 5-6 trainsets. The A has about 8 currently. Hopefully they're smart enough to do that.

 

So for the summertime:

R32/R46

Rockaway pk full length: R32's and 1 R46 (for the overnight

R46

If I recall, the Rockaway Park shuttle is only full length on the weekends during the summer.

[BreeddekalbL]

I thought the 32's and 42's were not allowed on the  because of the newton tunnel repairs?

[CDTA]

46 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Has it been confirmed by the Division of Car Equipment NYCT, not "insiders", that CIYD will be getting R32's for B/G service?

I would say a confirmed corporate MTA worker working in operations, DJ Hammers is a pretty reliable source. I understand your skepticism, but this seems to be a situation where the risks outweigh the costs. Really, where else are you going to put R32s where they can free-up full length fleet, at Jamaica? Given their atrocious MBDF I'd say there's more potential to tie up service running them there.

[Bill from Maspeth]

23 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

So then why not REWIRE the Mountague St tunnels so that R32's can pass through their again?

That will cost a lot of money and service interruption time to accommodate a car that won't be around much longer and could easily be assigned elsewhere.

[Bill from Maspeth]

19 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

I thought the 32's and 42's were not allowed on the  because of the newton tunnel repairs?

No restriction. Garbage train with R32 horses operate there.

[Bill from Maspeth]

18 minutes ago, CDTA said:

I would say a confirmed corporate MTA worker working in operations, DJ Hammers is a pretty reliable source. I understand your skepticism, but this seems to be a situation where the risks outweigh the costs. Really, where else are you going to put R32s where they can free-up full length fleet, at Jamaica? Given their atrocious MBDF I'd say there's more potential to tie up service running them there.

I do not doubt DJ's credibility.  I am just saying that he is one employee, and IDK what department he works for.  He is not the one who signs the memorandum.  If decisions were final as to where R32's will go the memo would be out today.  Since it's not, that says there are on going discussions.  He will tell you what is current as of the day he has the information, but transit is known to change their minds, then DJ will have new info for you at that time.

[R32 3838]

36 minutes ago, S78 via Hylan said:

If I recall, the Rockaway Park shuttle is only full length on the weekends during the summer.

It was full length 7 days when going to rockaway blvd this year. The only time it was 4 cars was overnight.

[R32 3838]

The ta always changes their minds last minute. The getting R46's was most likely a last minute decision. There are other people who also have very credible sources. You guys keep dickriding on one person giving information about the and (G). Nothing is official yet. This is basically a proposal and nothing more. I bet a month from now they will change their mind. If there's still 222 R32's left in the system post R179's its better to split them. The can handle them, 8 sets should be good enough. 

[biGC323232]

1 hour ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Thank you.  At least somebody gets that R32's won't be assigned to the southern end because the possibility exists that the railroad can go down the toilet and a B train could have already left Prospect Park and the bridge gets shut down.  And transit does not want to take a train out of service at DeKalb that would make a bad situation worse.

I have one question here...Let's say for instance that the R32s do somehow get transferred to the  service(Which i doubt) and the bridge gets shutdown...do we really think they gonna send these so called rerouted  trains up the tunnel to nowhere or just suspend them like they normally do...Better question could these  trains even fit in the tunnel with the remaining reroutes    and ....I dont understand how reversing a train at metro tech so problematic...What its gonna delay bklyn bound   service...please....And at jay st you have   for  customers to finish there trip and not cause platform overcrowding

[CTK246]

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

The ta always changes their minds last minute. The getting R46's was most likely a last minute decision. There are other people who also have very credible sources. You guys keep dickriding on one person giving information about the and (G). Nothing is official yet. This is basically a proposal and nothing more. I bet a month from now they will change their mind. If there's still 222 R32's left in the system post R179's its better to split them. The can handle them, 8 sets should be good enough. 

Wait, I've been out of the loop. The R179s aren't going on the anymore? Where are they going?

[quadcorder]

5 hours ago, CDTA said:

(J)/(Z): R160/R179

(G): R179 with a handful of R32s

(B): R32/R68

(N)/(W): R46/R68/R179

(C): R46

(E)/(F)/(R): All R160

 

A?

[LGA Link N Train]

23 minutes ago, quadcorder said:

A?

I slightly don't agree with @CDTA's list. Though I'll keep my mouth shut for this one

[GojiMet86]

 

4 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Thank you.  At least somebody gets that R32's won't be assigned to the southern end because the possibility exists that the railroad can go down the toilet and a B train could have already left Prospect Park and the bridge gets shut down.  And transit does not want to take a train out of service at DeKalb that would make a bad situation worse.

 

Again, you're making a big deal out of a rare event: the complete shutdown of the Manhattan Bridge, BOTH Broadway and 6th Avenue. How many times in the last decade has that happened? How many times has the even gone up Montague in the last 5 years? Answer me that. If the 6th Avenue side has to be shut down, you send them up Broadway. Not a big deal.

If BOTH sides have to close, the system is going "down the toilet" anyway, as you said; it wouldn't kill them anymore to turn them at Prospect Park or at the crossover between Jay Street-MetroTech and Court Street.

 

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

The ta always changes their minds last minute. The getting R46's was most likely a last minute decision. There are other people who also have very credible sources. You guys keep dickriding on one person giving information about the and (G). Nothing is official yet. This is basically a proposal and nothing more. I bet a month from now they will change their mind. If there's still 222 R32's left in the system post R179's its better to split them. The can handle them, 8 sets should be good enough. 

 

...Yet when they pop up on the  and , you'll be the first one chasing it and posting about it on FB.

[RR503]

2 hours ago, biGC323232 said:

I have one question here...Let's say for instance that the R32s do somehow get transferred to the  service(Which i doubt) and the bridge gets shutdown...do we really think they gonna send these so called rerouted  trains up the tunnel to nowhere or just suspend them like they normally do...Better question could these  trains even fit in the tunnel with the remaining reroutes    and ....I dont understand how reversing a train at metro tech so problematic...What its gonna delay bklyn bound   service...please....And at jay st you have   for  customers to finish there trip and not cause platform overcrowding

Jeezus. Let's say the Manhattan Bridge goes down on both sides (which does in fact happen, for NYPD action, large car crashes, etc) and you're a  train that has already passed prospect park. There is nowhere for you to turn around, except for Lawrence st -- R32s can't fit through Montague proper, and there are no crossovers between n and sbound tracks on Brighton beyond Prospect park. So, you turn at Lawrence. 

Now, if the entire Manhattan Bridge is down, four other services along with the stuck  trains have to go via tunnel -- the  and . If that  has to fumigate at Metrotech -- with its famously narrow platforms -- and then relay in the tunnel just beyond, train traffic will be held up for a good 7 minutes, causing massive delays in service going in both directions via montague. This will massively aggravate an already abysmal situation, as all those  and  trains will be piling up in montague, forming the mother of all conga lines. Not only that, but the  -- which will be slammed with riders from that delayed  right behind our imagined , and then again on 6th ave -- is gonna get overloaded. You are worsening a disaster.

In situations like these, you can't just throw the towel in and say "oh whatever it's bad already." That is what caused the sh*tstorm we're in now. 

[P3F]

13 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Jeezus. Let's say the Manhattan Bridge goes down on both sides (which does in fact happen, for NYPD action, large car crashes, etc) and you're a  train that has already passed prospect park. There is nowhere for you to turn around, except for Lawrence st -- R32s can't fit through Montague proper, and there are no crossovers between n and sbound tracks on Brighton beyond Prospect park. So, you turn at Lawrence. 

Now, if the entire Manhattan Bridge is down, four other services along with the stuck  trains have to go via tunnel -- the  and . If that  has to fumigate at Metrotech -- with its famously narrow platforms -- and then relay in the tunnel just beyond, train traffic will be held up for a good 7 minutes, causing massive delays in service going in both directions via montague. This will massively aggravate an already abysmal situation, as all those  and  trains will be piling up in montague, forming the mother of all conga lines. Not only that, but the  -- which will be slammed with riders from that delayed  right behind our imagined , and then again on 6th ave -- is gonna get overloaded. You are worsening a disaster.

In situations like these, you can't just throw the towel in and say "oh whatever it's bad already." That is what caused the sh*tstorm we're in now. 

It wouldn't need to fumigate at Lawrence. It could run to Court in-service, and turn back from there.

 

That's just my side note; I'm not commenting on the rest of the post.

[Wallyhorse]

9 minutes ago, P3F said:

It wouldn't need to fumigate at Lawrence. It could run to Court in-service, and turn back from there.

That's just my side note; I'm not commenting on the rest of the post.

That is true.  A in that situation could turn at Court, however, the M/M involved would need to get out and very quickly as possible get over to the opposite end while everything is set up to go back out the other way very quickly.

Still not great but not as bad as some think.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

4 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

The ta always changes their minds last minute. The getting R46's was most likely a last minute decision. There are other people who also have very credible sources. You guys keep dickriding on one person giving information about the and (G). Nothing is official yet. This is basically a proposal and nothing more. I bet a month from now they will change their mind. If there's still 222 R32's left in the system post R179's its better to split them. The can handle them, 8 sets should be good enough. 

I agree. Nothing is official yet, so I’ll take the proposed car assignments up thread with a grain of salt. Just like I did in 2009 and early 2010, when there was huge speculation that the  and  were being combined into one service from Forest Hills to Middle Village via the Chrystie St connecting tracks that had not been used for regular service since 1976. It wasn’t until I went to the public meeting in Chelsea and actually saw the proposed maps with the  service, that I was like, “OMFG, they actually decided to do it!” All those years of railfan speculation and foaming and there it was. 

I still think the  is the best option for the R32s. Yes, it’s mostly underground and it’s the longest line in the system. But the  and  are also mostly underground, even more so than the . And it’s anticipated that the  is going to see a huge increase in displaced  riders, so maybe for the same reason they don’t want to keep the R32s on the  should also be the reason they don’t go on the  either. And the  will likely see a significant increase of transferees from the  at Broadway Junction, so maybe as the express, it should have trains with a greater number of entry doors (40 on a 10-car train of R32s vs 32 on an 8-car train of R46s). Isn’t that the reason why Jamaica Yard doesn’t put R46s on the ? 

1 hour ago, GojiMet86 said:

Again, you're making a big deal out of a rare event: the complete shutdown of the Manhattan Bridge, BOTH Broadway and 6th Avenue. How many times in the last decade has that happened? How many times has the even gone up Montague in the last 5 years? Answer me that. If the 6th Avenue side has to be shut down, you send them up Broadway. Not a big deal.

If BOTH sides have to close, the system is going "down the toilet" anyway, as you said; it wouldn't kill them anymore to turn them at Prospect Park or at the crossover between Jay Street-MetroTech and Court St

I totally disagree. Why take that chance? It doesn’t matter how rare it is. You don’t set yourself up for a meltdown if you’ve got options to completely avoid it. 

And don’t forget, the turnback switches are midway between Court and Lawrence (Jay St-MetroTech). They’re not located right outside either of those stations.

[Bill from Maspeth]

I've read all these arguments before about the insistence of the advocation of R32's on the B and my opposition.  It doesn't matter about the rare event.  NYCT takes actions to avoid those rare events.  The solution is simple: No R32's on the B.  If c/r's opening doors outside of a station is a rare event, they wouldn't be pointing to boards and the cabs having door enablers for the t/o to push either!  

Having R32's on the Brighton Line would afford some great photos and videos.  That's why some of you want them on the B for this reason only.

On another topic: I thought by now CI was going to have R46's and Jamaica was going to have the R160's from CI?  I guess "the insiders" were wrong about that one too!

[R32 3838]

Logic doesn't exist in this thread. 

Everyone is giving a logical reason why putting R32's on the wouldn't be a good idea. And someone else just explained why. Turning them at court would f**k up (N),(Q) and service if they were to get rerouted via tunnel. 

 

The only rumor that is going strong right now is the getting R32's and i heard these from 2 very credible sources that are well known.

 

I remember the time everyone gave me shit for saying the R44's were gonna retire and 3 years of getting flamed for saying R32's will be on the / (Z). And guess what both happend.

 

I remember when people with inside info was saying the was getting R32's in September of 2016 but guess what ta changed their minds last minute. 

 

So don't be saying oh and if they were to pop up i'll be the first to post it. Now a days you foamers are cut throat for those exclusives. So i doubt i'll be the first one. 

 

Im just gonna wait and see whats gonna happen.

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

On another topic: I thought by now CI was going to have R46's and Jamaica was going to have the R160's from CI?  I guess "the insiders" were wrong about that one too!

We're just waiting for the R179s to come in. By the end of next year, we will all see what the TA decides to do.

 

I have my opinions and will not likely change them, but I do agree that until there is solid evidence, anything can happen now.

[Bill from Maspeth]

7 minutes ago, D to 96 St said:

Just because the TA changed their minds in the past does not mean they will do it this time around. And can YOU PLEASE state these "credible sources" for the 32s on the ? 

To your first sentence, LOL. 

Credible sources around here is one person who works in Operations Planning, and not a boss at that.  Also Car Equipment Dept. has a big say as to where car models are assigned.

[R42N]

7 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Has it been confirmed by the Division of Car Equipment NYCT, not "insiders", that CIYD will be getting R32's for B/G service?

Well, a few of these insiders work for the MTA in the present day, unlike you, and have a near-perfect track record with these things, so I trust them. 

[LGA Link N Train]

I don't care who predicts what,but here is what the should do this in my opinion

 - gets ALL remaining R32's with a few at the Rockaways. + the 5 car R179's

gains some R46's from that and possible the  and maybe all R68's from the  

 Remains with it's R68's and stays as is

can get a few 4 car R179's and R160A1's from the  

  gets increased service with some R143's, a few extra R160's, and R179's

As for what to do with the surplus set's (if any). just recouple them into 5 car sets (both R160's and R179's, though the fleet types will remain separated from each other), then you could use them on...... IDK, the or  . Any B car left over, you guys decide. Any A cars left? Make married pairs????