Has the MTA ever tried buses with more doors?

[bobtehpanda]

So we all know that people don't go to the back of the bus. Partially, it's because of the higher platforms, but people didn't do this on high-floor buses much either when the floor was all level. Has the MTA considered ordering buses with more doors, like they have in Europe?

A shorter bus with three doors, in Munich:

An articulated bus in Tallinn with four doors:

An articulated bus in Bratislava with five doors:

I think that with bench seating and 100% low-floor, this could go a long way towards helping with dwell times and capacity. What are your thoughts?

[OIG119]

It would only work well with all door boarding.

[Orion6025]

Well they did demo a citaro for a while but that ofcourse fell through..

The fact that no buses sold in the USA have those extra doors is means probably they aren't on the market for european style buses with more doors.

[QM1to6Ave]

Seems like these would be great for SBS

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I used to get on artics in the back ALL of the time when I lived in Europe because the ticket machines are spread out, and more importantly, the buses pull into the curb, so it doesn't matter which door you get on through. The height is the same more or less. The artics used here... The drivers often don't pull into the curb because of how the bus stops are configured, leading everyone to go for the front door because the driver can kneel the bus.  You would need to reconfigure the layout of the buses quite frankly.  The European buses are designed better IMO as shown by your pictures.

[Deucey]

Given how many people board an over capacity bus without paying fares when drivers open only the back door to let people off, I’m sure  won’t consider multiple doors because of revenue losses.

[bobtehpanda]

10 hours ago, Deucey said:

Given how many people board an over capacity bus without paying fares when drivers open only the back door to let people off, I’m sure  won’t consider multiple doors because of revenue losses.

I mean, this would mostly be for SBS, which is supposed to be 'subway style' or some marketing crap anyways.

[QM1to6Ave]

As VG8 pointed out, if the MTA wasn't so cheap and paid to have the kneeling function on the back part of the bus, it would help encourage SBS riders to use all doors, not just the front, if they have difficulty stepping down. 

[bobtehpanda]

3 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

As VG8 pointed out, if the MTA wasn't so cheap and paid to have the kneeling function on the back part of the bus, it would help encourage SBS riders to use all doors, not just the front, if they have difficulty stepping down. 

My concern is more of the fact that people do not move all the way into the rear of the bus, opting to stand near the back door. This is an issue on the entire local bus fleet IMO.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

My concern is more of the fact that people do not move all the way into the rear of the bus, opting to stand near the back door. This is an issue on the entire local bus fleet IMO.

Right, but if the layout inside of the buses were redesigned particularly the whole back of the bus, you would get more people back there. If you're over 6'0", most people won't want to go back there because of the steps. They essentially seperate the bus both literally and figuratively speaking. I don't recall there being steps in the back of the buses I rode in Europe, artics or shorter buses, but the would have to look to European manufacturers. I think it's a mistake to sink billions of dollars into basically two vendors more or less for buses for the local fleet... 

[BrooklynBus]

Back in the 50s, some of the Macks had double width exit doors with a bar down the middle.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

52 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Back in the 50s, some of the Macks had double width exit doors with a bar down the middle.

How did those pan out? I think if you told people today that there would be more doors but fewer seats here in NYC, they'd go beserk.  You would think the world was coming to an end.  I love seeing people get on the SBS artic lines.  They get on the bus and immediately run to a seat and will knock you down to so.  I make it very clear that I am perfectly fine standing and usually try to board a door where there are fewer people.

[QM1to6Ave]

14 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

My concern is more of the fact that people do not move all the way into the rear of the bus, opting to stand near the back door. This is an issue on the entire local bus fleet IMO.

That is true, it is an issue on all buses

[FamousNYLover]

On 1/19/2018 at 2:43 AM, bobtehpanda said:

My concern is more of the fact that people do not move all the way into the rear of the bus, opting to stand near the back door. This is an issue on the entire local bus fleet IMO.

Same issue on NICE Bus, Bee-Line Bus, Suffolk County Transit and NJ Transit buses (not coach buses). No one move to the back of a bus. I saw this issue on SEPTA and CT Transit (not coach)  buses as well.

People refuse to move to back of bus even after bus driver asked politely. 

I have been on recently on Q33 bus and bus driver wouldn't move until everyone is behind the white line, including the employee who was on the bus was also asked to move behind the white line.

I have been on the overcrowded n6 bus during and  NICEBus when bus driver stated "I not moving until everyone is behind the white line.

 

[bobtehpanda]

On 1/19/2018 at 5:14 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Right, but if the layout inside of the buses were redesigned particularly the whole back of the bus, you would get more people back there. If you're over 6'0", most people won't want to go back there because of the steps. They essentially seperate the bus both literally and figuratively speaking. I don't recall there being steps in the back of the buses I rode in Europe, artics or shorter buses, but the would have to look to European manufacturers. I think it's a mistake to sink billions of dollars into basically two vendors more or less for buses for the local fleet... 

Of course it is, but NY State and the Feds require sourcing from factories located within NY, or at least within the US. The European manufacturers would never do that, because the market here is too small.

[BrooklynBus]

On January 19, 2018 at 12:21 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

How did those pan out? I think if you told people today that there would be more doors but fewer seats here in NYC, they'd go beserk.  You would think the world was coming to an end.  I love seeing people get on the SBS artic lines.  They get on the bus and immediately run to a seat and will knock you down to so.  I make it very clear that I am perfectly fine standing and usually try to board a door where there are fewer people.

Those doors were opened by the driver, not the passenger. So if say only two people had to get off and stood behind each other, it made it very easy to board through the back door and evade the fare. That was I believe the reason why subsequent models did not have that feature. The advantage of course is that it greatly reduced dwell time and encouraged the use of exiting through the rear door since riders knew they would exit twice as fast through the rear door. But since the NYCTA was interested primarily in revenue, the loss of revenue was considered more important than the reduction in dwell time.

Those buses still had 51 seats. The others had 53. Compare that with 40 seats today for the same 40 foot long bus. Did you see the design for the BQX trolley? I counted only 27 seats. Just ridiculous. The PCC trolleys even had more seats since they were a little longer than 40 feet. The articulated buses only have seven more seats than the old buses. 

People have a right to be concerned over the loss of more seating. 

 

 

[N6 Limited]

It's one thing when people don't move to the back of the bus, but when you get flagged and there is definitely room, it's very irritating.

[DetSMART45]

On 1/19/2018 at 2:43 AM, bobtehpanda said:

My concern is more of the fact that people do not move all the way into the rear of the bus, opting to stand near the back door. This is an issue on the entire local bus fleet IMO.

Around here, SMART (suburban) riders do this, while DDOT (Detroit) riders don't.  Surprising since DDOT routes are more like MTA ones where sardine can-level is common.  Longer-ride usually go up top automatically, and it's not uncommon to be cheek-to-cheek on the back bench and all other seats doubled-up up there.  The SMART riders almost seem to not even attempt at looking up in the back for an empty seat and just stand in the back door, which just irritates anyone trying to get off.

On 1/22/2018 at 6:16 PM, N6 Limited said:

It's one thing when people don't move to the back of the bus, but when you get flagged and there is definitely room, it's very irritating.

Operator technically isn't doing their job.  Safe customer transport is a major part of their job, and having the most asses in seats is exactly that.  Had a DDOT XD60 driver actually stop and wait for people to get out of the aisle and take seats (some were available, and driver had to TELL select people to move over to let others in/get their bags off the seat) before he would continue on.  One guy actually sat on the rear step (on his own) just so we could get going again.