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<6>PelhamExp

(4) (5) Lexington Avenue Express

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I've been attending a training near Bowling Green for the month of January, and I have been taking the (4)(5) trains downtown on a daily basis. 

I commute from the Soundview neighborhood of the Bronx, which means I have to take the Bx5 bus to the train station to either Hunts Point Av (6) or Simpson Street (2)(5) . 

At the beginning of the month, I was taking the Bx5 bus to Simpson Street for the (2) to 3rd Avenue, and transferring to the (5). For those who may not be familiar with the service pattern on the White Plains Line during morning rush hours, (5) trains run express from East 180 Street to 3rd Avenue-149 Street while the (2) makes all local stops.

Well, I aborted that commute after the first week because the chokepoint south of Jackson Avenue most of the times holds up the (2) trains at Jackson while the (5) gets to proceed into 3rd Avenue. Then, I have to wait on the platform at 3rd Avenue for the (5) . Then, there is the chokepoint south of 138 Street-Grand Concourse, where the (4) and (5) merge. The commute was just simply taking too long.... And lets not even get into the Lexington Av run.

So, I began to take the Bx5 bus to Hunts Point Avenue for the <6> to 125 Street, where I can transfer to the (4) and (5). The ride to 125th on the Pelham Line is usually ok, however, the run on Lexington Avenue Express is MISERABLE!

The ride usually from 125th to 86th Street is flawless! Usually a smooth ride, however, once that train pulls out of that station it is a stop & go or a snail race all the way down to 14th Street-Union Square. I understand that there are timers outside of Grand Central station as well as Union Square due to the gap filters... But come on! It shouldn't take 50 minutes to get from 125th Street to Bowling Green on an express run.

Has anyone else struggled with this?

Im now planning on taking the Bx5 bus to Simpson Street for the (2) and riding that all the way down to Wall Street. Any thoughts?

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26 minutes ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

I've been attending a training near Bowling Green for the month of January, and I have been taking the (4)(5) trains downtown on a daily basis. 

I commute from the Soundview neighborhood of the Bronx, which means I have to take the Bx5 bus to the train station to either Hunts Point Av (6) or Simpson Street (2)(5) . 

At the beginning of the month, I was taking the Bx5 bus to Simpson Street for the (2) to 3rd Avenue, and transferring to the (5). For those who may not be familiar with the service pattern on the White Plains Line during morning rush hours, (5) trains run express from East 180 Street to 3rd Avenue-149 Street while the (2) makes all local stops.

Well, I aborted that commute after the first week because the chokepoint south of Jackson Avenue most of the times holds up the (2) trains at Jackson while the (5) gets to proceed into 3rd Avenue. Then, I have to wait on the platform at 3rd Avenue for the (5) . Then, there is the chokepoint south of 138 Street-Grand Concourse, where the (4) and (5) merge. The commute was just simply taking too long.... And lets not even get into the Lexington Av run.

So, I began to take the Bx5 bus to Hunts Point Avenue for the <6> to 125 Street, where I can transfer to the (4) and (5). The ride to 125th on the Pelham Line is usually ok, however, the run on Lexington Avenue Express is MISERABLE!

The ride usually from 125th to 86th Street is flawless! Usually a smooth ride, however, once that train pulls out of that station it is a stop & go or a snail race all the way down to 14th Street-Union Square. I understand that there are timers outside of Grand Central station as well as Union Square due to the gap filters... But come on! It shouldn't take 50 minutes to get from 125th Street to Bowling Green on an express run.

Has anyone else struggled with this?

Im now planning on taking the Bx5 bus to Simpson Street for the (2) and riding that all the way down to Wall Street. Any thoughts?

Yes, I have. That's exactly why I take Metro-North where possible to avoid the mess on the Lex line.  Sometimes it has taken a good 30 minutes extra because of delays and back-ups, and on a regular basis it becomes rather ridiculous.  The other thing you left out is that any little issue, and the (5) is no longer express but local. Same deal with the (6).  I've experienced them all and it's only worsening.  When you add in a bus commute in your case just to reach the subway, it really adds up.

Quite frankly, if you are trying to get anywhere quickly in the Bronx with either the (4)(5) or (6) from Manhattan, most of the time you are better off taking an alternative. Why in the world would you consider the (2) of all trains? It's just as bad if not worse!  It is always packed, delayed and doesn't run nearly as frequent as it should because of the (3) and blah blah blah. Excuses excuses excuses. <_<

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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15 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yes, I have. That's exactly why I take Metro-North where possible to avoid the mess on the Lex line.  Sometimes it has taken a good 30 minutes extra because of delays and back-ups, and on a regular basis it becomes rather ridiculous.  The other thing you left out is that any little issue, and the (5) is no longer express but local. Same deal with the (6).  I've experienced them all and it's only worsening.  When you add in a bus commute in your case just to reach the subway, it really adds up.

Quite frankly, if you are trying to get anywhere quickly in the Bronx with either the (4)(5) or (6) from Manhattan, most of the time you are better off taking an alternative. Why in the world would you consider the (2) of all trains? It's just as bad if not worse!  It is always packed, delayed and doesn't run nearly as frequent as it should because of the (3) and blah blah blah. Excuses excuses excuses. <_<

I find that the (2), while usually significantly crowded, it isn't plagued with the slow speeds that the (4) and (5) experience. I find that even if there are no delays (ie. sick passengers, train w/ mechanical problems, signal problems) the (4) and (5) have more trains on the tracks and more timers and tight curves or difficult station infrastructure than the (2) and (3). So in general, it is just super slow during the morning rush. So I've gathered that the (2) may move faster than the (4) or (5) through Manhattan. 

I know there are timers outside of Times Sq-42nd Street, and the tight curves between Chambers Street & Fulton Street... But even with all of that said, I think its worth a shot on the (2).

 

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6 minutes ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

I find that the (2), while usually significantly crowded, it isn't plagued with the slow speeds that the (4) and (5) experience. I find that even if there are no delays (ie. sick passengers, train w/ mechanical problems, signal problems) the (4) and (5) have more trains on the tracks and more timers and tight curves or difficult station infrastructure than the (2) and (3). So in general, it is just super slow during the morning rush. So I've gathered that the (2) may move faster than the (4) or (5) through Manhattan. 

I know there are timers outside of Times Sq-42nd Street, and the tight curves between Chambers Street & Fulton Street... But even with all of that said, I think its worth a shot on the (2).

 

You might as well try it. It's not like you have any other alternatives quite frankly.  As long as you can put with the sardine can (2) trains, more power to you.

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36 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Is there a BxM bus that goes from Soundview to Bowling Green?

I had a meeting once about the ferry in Soundview, and I just took the BxM8 and walked to my meeting from there, but depending on where he is in Soundview, he may actually have to backtrack to get to the last stop on Bruckner Blvd and White Plains Rd.  At a minimum, it would take him down to 23rd street. He could transfer to a variety of trains from there or transfer to the BxM18 the rest of the way to Wall Street, but I didn't recommend the express bus because my thinking is he would surely know about it living there because Soundview has no subway, so surely he has seen those express buses at some point. That and he may not be able to afford the higher fare. In any event, if he is near the BxM8, it runs to Manhattan until midnight during the week because of what a pain it is commuting with the subway.

http://web.mta.info/busco/schedules/bxm8cur.pdf

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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3 hours ago, Deucey said:

Is there a BxM bus that goes from Soundview to Bowling Green?

There is no express bus service that serves the immediate neighborhood of Soundview. The BxM8 will leave me at White Plains Road and Bruckner Blvd, which is quite a walk from Story Avenue & Boynton Avenue. 

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4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You might as well try it. It's not like you have any other alternatives quite frankly.  As long as you can put with the sardine can (2) trains, more power to you.

I made the reverse trip home this evening... Took the (2) from Wall Street to Simpson Street, and the trip was 50 mins total. If the trip takes the same amount of time during the morning rush, this will be my route moving forward. I don't mind standing, so long as the train is moving.

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19 minutes ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

I made the reverse trip home this evening... Took the (2) from Wall Street to Simpson Street, and the trip was 50 mins total. If the trip takes the same amount of time during the morning rush, this will be my route moving forward. I don't mind standing, so long as the train is moving.

If the (2) is too crowded heading Bronx-bound, you can take the (3) to 135th Street and transfer to the (2) over there (though it shouldn't be too bad if you're boarding in Lower Manhattan, since the Midtown crowd hasn't gotten on at that point).

With the BxM8, I personally wouldn't do it because of the traffic, but if you do, you can get a weekly pass which is also valid on the subway and local bus. So you can take the Bx5 to White Plains Road, walk up to Bruckner Blvd, take the BxM8 to 23rd Street, and then take the (R)(W) from there, and it's a constant $59.50 per week. (As opposed to paying $6.50 for the Bx5-BxM8 and then paying again for the subway).

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1 hour ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

I made the reverse trip home this evening... Took the (2) from Wall Street to Simpson Street, and the trip was 50 mins total. If the trip takes the same amount of time during the morning rush, this will be my route moving forward. I don't mind standing, so long as the train is moving.

50 minutes with the bus included???

1 hour ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

There is no express bus service that serves the immediate neighborhood of Soundview. The BxM8 will leave me at White Plains Road and Bruckner Blvd, which is quite a walk from Story Avenue & Boynton Avenue. 

Yes, but plenty of people from Soundview walk in the direction you would have to go to get the BxM8, given the lack of a subway there, but you live on the other side of the expressway and much deeper into Soundview, so that makes it a bit of a pain.  My meeting was actually in Soundview as well, but on the other side of the expressway, but I was driven home to Riverdale afterwards, so I only had to walk from the BxM8.

I used the BxM8 a lot from White Plains Rd when I tutored down by Castle Hill.  I would just walk to and from White Plains Rd and Bruckner.  It was 10 minutes tops, but in your case, it would be a good 20 minute walk, so it would definitely be involved. I will say that outside of rush hour, the BxM8 is really fast. I would it on Sunday mornings from 86th and 3rd and it's a really quick ride over the (6), so when you want to go the city and not deal with the subway, it is a good alternative.  You could ideally get to the BxM8 fast if you can link up with a Bx5 quickly.  It would take say 12 minutes to reach that bus, but you don't make any stops until 122nd street so you gain back a decent amount of time if there is no traffic.

31 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

If the (2) is too crowded heading Bronx-bound, you can take the (3) to 135th Street and transfer to the (2) over there (though it shouldn't be too bad if you're boarding in Lower Manhattan, since the Midtown crowd hasn't gotten on at that point).

With the BxM8, I personally wouldn't do it because of the traffic, but if you do, you can get a weekly pass which is also valid on the subway and local bus. So you can take the Bx5 to White Plains Road, walk up to Bruckner Blvd, take the BxM8 to 23rd Street, and then take the (R)(W) from there, and it's a constant $59.50 per week. (As opposed to paying $6.50 for the Bx5-BxM8 and then paying again for the subway).

The (2) can be crowded from Downtown too, so I would definitely take the (3) if that's the case. I find that there's a (3) almost immediately behind the (2) and they are usually less crowded since they are only going to Harlem.

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I found something interesting for you...

http://brie.hunter.cuny.edu/hpe/2015/04/02/union-pushes-two-stop-bus-service-to-manhattan/

This service still wouldn't benefit you since it skips the area of Soundview you are in and stops at Story and White Plains Rd.  I don't know much about Soundview, but I find it rather odd that there is no express bus or limited stop bus aside from the Bx5 in the area.  A real pain to commute.  I think a lot of people in that area drive to the BxM8 as well because it looks there are some huge buildings in the area so there are dense parts.

 

Another interesting article:

 

Express‐Bus Service Here Is Popular

PAUL L. MONTGOMERY NOV. 9, 1971

November 9, 1971, Page 93 The New York Times Archives

Until last week, Mrs. Winona Ellis got to work from her home in the Soundview area of the Bronx by walking to a bus, transferring to a subway in Parkchester, then enduring 40 minutes of pushing and jostling on the ride to Grand Central Terminal.

Yesterday, she walked across Bruckner Boulevard from her home and boarded a waiting express bus, the latest addition to the growing network of private and public transit in the city. She read a book and looked out the window on the way into Midtown Manhattan, and for the expenditure of 40 cents more than the combined bus and subway fare and the same amount of time, she arrived unharassed and smiling at her job.

“There's a lot of nice things about it, said Mrs. Ellis of the new service. “I guess the best is that there's nobody standing all over me the way they do in the subway.”

One‐Way Fare Is $1

The Soundview express service was begun last week, the latest of about 25 express routes from outlying areas of the Bronx, Queens and Staten Island into midtown and downtown Manhattan established in the last three years. The services have been remarkably successful; in some cases, the number of buses traveling them has been tripled to meet demand.

The Soundview buses, operated by Liberty Coaches, run every 15 minutes between 7 and 9 A.M. from stops beginning at Bruckner Boulevard and White Plains Road. At the Manhattan end, there are five stops on Fifth Avenue between 59th and 26th streets.

In the evening rush hours, the schedule is reversed. During the day, service from Soundview is provided through, the Pelham Parkway Express buses, which started running last April.

After Thanksgiving, the line plans to begin direct service on Saturdays and in non‐rush hours for Christmas shoppers. As on almost all of the express routes, the one‐way fare is $1.

The first express buses as alternative to local buses or subways were begun by the Steinway Transit Company, from Fresh Meadows, in Queens, to Manhattan, in 1968.

Service is now provided from many areas, including Riverdale and Parkchester in the Bronx, Bayside, Cambria Heights, Rosedale and Glen Oaks in Queens, and the southern part of Staten Island. There are none yet from. Brooklyn, but community groups are pressing for them.

Although figures vary with the day and the season, it is likely now that at least 300 express buses come into Man hattan each day; the Transit Authority alone has 80.

The capacity of the buses is about 50 passengers, and most are operating full. On the Soundview line, where word of the new service is still spreading in the community, southbound buses average 20 passengers and northbound ones about 30.

There is some evidence that some of the buses are coming to be factors in traffic congestion in Midtown Manhattan—victims of a problem they were supposed to avert. A Traffic Department spokesman estimated that in the evening rush hour on northbound streets there were about 75 of the new express buses on the Avenue of the Americas, 75 on Madison Avenue and 35 on Third Avenue.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/1971/11/09/archives/expressbus-service-here-is-popular.html

----

So it seems as if the BxM8 that operates now followed a similar pattern or at least in Soundview. Every express bus in the nearby area doesn't stop until White Plains Road.  Very interesting... BxM6, BxM8 and the BxM10 all do that. It would be interesting to see how much ridership would exist if there was a bus serving those areas west of White Plains Rd.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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6 hours ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

I've been attending a training near Bowling Green for the month of January, and I have been taking the (4)(5) trains downtown on a daily basis. 

I commute from the Soundview neighborhood of the Bronx, which means I have to take the Bx5 bus to the train station to either Hunts Point Av (6) or Simpson Street (2)(5) . 

At the beginning of the month, I was taking the Bx5 bus to Simpson Street for the (2) to 3rd Avenue, and transferring to the (5). For those who may not be familiar with the service pattern on the White Plains Line during morning rush hours, (5) trains run express from East 180 Street to 3rd Avenue-149 Street while the (2) makes all local stops.

Well, I aborted that commute after the first week because the chokepoint south of Jackson Avenue most of the times holds up the (2) trains at Jackson while the (5) gets to proceed into 3rd Avenue. Then, I have to wait on the platform at 3rd Avenue for the (5) . Then, there is the chokepoint south of 138 Street-Grand Concourse, where the (4) and (5) merge. The commute was just simply taking too long.... And lets not even get into the Lexington Av run.

So, I began to take the Bx5 bus to Hunts Point Avenue for the <6> to 125 Street, where I can transfer to the (4) and (5). The ride to 125th on the Pelham Line is usually ok, however, the run on Lexington Avenue Express is MISERABLE!

The ride usually from 125th to 86th Street is flawless! Usually a smooth ride, however, once that train pulls out of that station it is a stop & go or a snail race all the way down to 14th Street-Union Square. I understand that there are timers outside of Grand Central station as well as Union Square due to the gap filters... But come on! It shouldn't take 50 minutes to get from 125th Street to Bowling Green on an express run.

Has anyone else struggled with this?

Im now planning on taking the Bx5 bus to Simpson Street for the (2) and riding that all the way down to Wall Street. Any thoughts?

Yes, that's why I avoid taking the (4) in the morning to get to school. Instead of just going straight down to Union Square on the (4), I just take the (D) to the (N)(Q)(R)(W), because it's simply much faster than taking the (4) through all those bottlenecks and delays. I noticed that there isn't as much of a problem on the (4) from around 7:30 to 8 around Union Square, but after that the line turns to chaos. I usually take the 7:10 from Kingsbridge Road and get down to Union Square at 7:50 or so, but if I take the 8:10 train, I'll get to Union Square at around 9:15-9:20.

I think one day I just gave up and transferred to the (6) at Grand Central because I didn't want to deal with the bs on the (4)(5), and I ended up passing 4-5 express trains between Grand Central and Union Square. It's insane and I think the MTA should try to figure out a way to reduce that delay somehow (maybe by just having every 1 out of 7 trains or so run local from Union Square to Brooklyn Bridge. I know that'd be messing with the flow of the (6) but I'm just totally spitballing here...)

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12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I found something interesting for you...

http://brie.hunter.cuny.edu/hpe/2015/04/02/union-pushes-two-stop-bus-service-to-manhattan/

This service still wouldn't benefit you since it skips the area of Soundview you are in and stops at Story and White Plains Rd.  I don't know much about Soundview, but I find it rather odd that there is no express bus or limited stop bus aside from the Bx5 in the area.  A real pain to commute.  I think a lot of people in that area drive to the BxM8 as well because it looks there are some huge buildings in the area so there are dense parts.

 

Another interesting article:

 

Express‐Bus Service Here Is Popular

PAUL L. MONTGOMERY NOV. 9, 1971

November 9, 1971, Page 93 The New York Times Archives

Until last week, Mrs. Winona Ellis got to work from her home in the Soundview area of the Bronx by walking to a bus, transferring to a subway in Parkchester, then enduring 40 minutes of pushing and jostling on the ride to Grand Central Terminal.

Yesterday, she walked across Bruckner Boulevard from her home and boarded a waiting express bus, the latest addition to the growing network of private and public transit in the city. She read a book and looked out the window on the way into Midtown Manhattan, and for the expenditure of 40 cents more than the combined bus and subway fare and the same amount of time, she arrived unharassed and smiling at her job.

“There's a lot of nice things about it, said Mrs. Ellis of the new service. “I guess the best is that there's nobody standing all over me the way they do in the subway.”

One‐Way Fare Is $1

The Soundview express service was begun last week, the latest of about 25 express routes from outlying areas of the Bronx, Queens and Staten Island into midtown and downtown Manhattan established in the last three years. The services have been remarkably successful; in some cases, the number of buses traveling them has been tripled to meet demand.

The Soundview buses, operated by Liberty Coaches, run every 15 minutes between 7 and 9 A.M. from stops beginning at Bruckner Boulevard and White Plains Road. At the Manhattan end, there are five stops on Fifth Avenue between 59th and 26th streets.

In the evening rush hours, the schedule is reversed. During the day, service from Soundview is provided through, the Pelham Parkway Express buses, which started running last April.

After Thanksgiving, the line plans to begin direct service on Saturdays and in non‐rush hours for Christmas shoppers. As on almost all of the express routes, the one‐way fare is $1.

The first express buses as alternative to local buses or subways were begun by the Steinway Transit Company, from Fresh Meadows, in Queens, to Manhattan, in 1968.

Service is now provided from many areas, including Riverdale and Parkchester in the Bronx, Bayside, Cambria Heights, Rosedale and Glen Oaks in Queens, and the southern part of Staten Island. There are none yet from. Brooklyn, but community groups are pressing for them.

Although figures vary with the day and the season, it is likely now that at least 300 express buses come into Man hattan each day; the Transit Authority alone has 80.

The capacity of the buses is about 50 passengers, and most are operating full. On the Soundview line, where word of the new service is still spreading in the community, southbound buses average 20 passengers and northbound ones about 30.

There is some evidence that some of the buses are coming to be factors in traffic congestion in Midtown Manhattan—victims of a problem they were supposed to avert. A Traffic Department spokesman estimated that in the evening rush hour on northbound streets there were about 75 of the new express buses on the Avenue of the Americas, 75 on Madison Avenue and 35 on Third Avenue.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/1971/11/09/archives/expressbus-service-here-is-popular.html

----

So it seems as if the BxM8 that operates now followed a similar pattern or at least in Soundview. Every express bus in the nearby area doesn't stop until White Plains Road.  Very interesting... BxM6, BxM8 and the BxM10 all do that. It would be interesting to see how much ridership would exist if there was a bus serving those areas west of White Plains Rd.

Its interesting because the BxM6 makes several stops once it comes off of the Sheridan Expwy and before arriving at Parkchester. It stops at Harrod Avenue (near the Bronx River Houses) and at Rosedale Avenue & Cross Bronx Expwy.

I think a stop on the BxM8 at Morrison Avenue & Bruckner Expwy would greatly benefit those who live in Soundview.

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12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

50 minutes with the bus included???

Yes, but plenty of people from Soundview walk in the direction you would have to go to get the BxM8, given the lack of a subway there, but you live on the other side of the expressway and much deeper into Soundview, so that makes it a bit of a pain.  My meeting was actually in Soundview as well, but on the other side of the expressway, but I was driven home to Riverdale afterwards, so I only had to walk from the BxM8.

I used the BxM8 a lot from White Plains Rd when I tutored down by Castle Hill.  I would just walk to and from White Plains Rd and Bruckner.  It was 10 minutes tops, but in your case, it would be a good 20 minute walk, so it would definitely be involved. I will say that outside of rush hour, the BxM8 is really fast. I would it on Sunday mornings from 86th and 3rd and it's a really quick ride over the (6), so when you want to go the city and not deal with the subway, it is a good alternative.  You could ideally get to the BxM8 fast if you can link up with a Bx5 quickly.  It would take say 12 minutes to reach that bus, but you don't make any stops until 122nd street so you gain back a decent amount of time if there is no traffic.

The (2) can be crowded from Downtown too, so I would definitely take the (3) if that's the case. I find that there's a (3) almost immediately behind the (2) and they are usually less crowded since they are only going to Harlem.

 

The trip was 50 minutes from Wall Street to Simpson Street, not including the ride on the Bx5 bus.

 

This morning I got on the (2) at Simpson Street at 7:56AM and arrived at Wall Street at 8:47AM. A total of 51 minutes, no delays at all. This will definitely be my commute moving forward. Goodbye Lexington Avenue Line!

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21 minutes ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

Its interesting because the BxM6 makes several stops once it comes off of the Sheridan Expwy and before arriving at Parkchester. It stops at Harrod Avenue (near the Bronx River Houses) and at Rosedale Avenue & Cross Bronx Expwy.

I think a stop on the BxM8 at Morrison Avenue & Bruckner Expwy would greatly benefit those who live in Soundview.

No, actually the BxM6 only makes one stop along the Cross Bronx Expwy at Rosedale Avenue which the first drop-off stop and the last pick-up to Manhattan.  It only makes two other stops, both of which serve the Parkchester complex.  That third stop along the Expressway sees a little usage but depending on one's location, you could easily walk to either of the two stops serving the Parkchester complex since those first two stops are the big ones. I agree that they should have an extra stop on the BxM8. I'm not sure why White Plains Road is the cut off for those express buses.  The BxM6 is really for the Parkchester complex, but I think they put the third stop by the Expressway just to serve people not so close to the subway.

 

5 minutes ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

 

The trip was 50 minutes from Wall Street to Simpson Street, not including the ride on the Bx5 bus.

 

This morning I got on the (2) at Simpson Street at 7:56AM and arrived at Wall Street at 8:47AM. A total of 51 minutes, no delays at all. This will definitely be my commute moving forward. Goodbye Lexington Avenue Line!

Don't get too comfortable.  7th Avenue has its delays as well.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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19 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yes, I have. That's exactly why I take Metro-North where possible to avoid the mess on the Lex line.  Sometimes it has taken a good 30 minutes extra because of delays and back-ups, and on a regular basis it becomes rather ridiculous.  The other thing you left out is that any little issue, and the (5) is no longer express but local. Same deal with the (6).  I've experienced them all and it's only worsening.  When you add in a bus commute in your case just to reach the subway, it really adds up.

Quite frankly, if you are trying to get anywhere quickly in the Bronx with either the (4)(5) or (6) from Manhattan, most of the time you are better off taking an alternative. Why in the world would you consider the (2) of all trains? It's just as bad if not worse!  It is always packed, delayed and doesn't run nearly as frequent as it should because of the (3) and blah blah blah. Excuses excuses excuses. <_<

And this is why I was looking at an (N) / (W) extension to The Bronx that would connect with the (2) and (5) at East 180 and the (6) at Westchester/Elder Avenue.   It would double as the one way to get to Queens from The Bronx without going through Manhattan and probably take some pressure off the other lines.

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6 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

And this is why I was looking at an (N) / (W) extension to The Bronx that would connect with the (2) and (5) at East 180 and the (6) at Westchester/Elder Avenue.   It would double as the one way to get to Queens from The Bronx without going through Manhattan and probably take some pressure off the other lines.

I personally don't understand the subway layout in the Bronx at all to be frank. It sucks. That's the best way to put it.  It clearly was built just to get to and from Manhattan, and worse of all it leaves huge swaths of areas with nothing.  I often times refuse assignments in certain parts of the Bronx because it is too much of a headache to reach, and you usually have to go into Manhattan, then back into the Bronx if you want to take the subway, or make a gazillion transfers with the local buses and sit on a long bus ride, which also doesn't interest me.  Believe it or not, often times, the fastest way is take an express bus into Manhattan and then transfer on the Upper East Side.  The real issue is there is no East-West access in the Bronx and it is clear that it is a need given how packed most of the "crosstown" Bronx buses are.  The topography and street layout certainly doesn't help things.

 

I mean I would like one of you subway buffs to explain the history because to me it makes no sense. There is no way that the (4)(5) and (6) are going to cut it and that's what serves most of the Bronx.  

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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8 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

No, actually the BxM6 only makes one stop along the Cross Bronx Expwy at Rosedale Avenue which the first drop-off stop and the last pick-up to Manhattan.  It only makes two other stops, both of which serve the Parkchester complex.  That third stop along the Expressway sees a little usage but depending on one's location, you could easily walk to either of the two stops serving the Parkchester complex since those first two stops are the big ones. I agree that they should have an extra stop on the BxM8. I'm not sure why White Plains Road is the cut off for those express buses.  The BxM6 is really for the Parkchester complex, but I think they put the third stop by the Expressway just to serve people not so close to the subway.

 

Don't get too comfortable.  7th Avenue has its delays as well.

Perhaps the driver let people off at that stop based on a personal choice? But I've been on several BxM6 buses where the driver drops off at that corner.

 

And yes, any line can have delays, but the delays on Lexington Avenue are like a regular everyday thing for lack f better words.

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1 minute ago, <6>PelhamExp said:

Perhaps the driver let people off at that stop based on a personal choice? But I've been on several BxM6 buses where the driver drops off at that corner.

 

And yes, any line can have delays, but the delays on Lexington Avenue are like a regular everyday thing for lack f better words.

Yes, he was being extremely nice because I've never seen any BxM6 drop-off by those housing projects.  The first official drop-off is at Rosedale Avenue and the Cross Bronx Expressway Service Road. I'm sure it helps them though since the Cross Bronx Service Road area is rather hilly and annoying to walk up (poor layout).

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Just now, Italianstallion said:

Well, you clearly do understand it.

No I don't actually. That still doesn't explain why so many sections don't have subway service, and the lack of East-West service.  

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15 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

No I don't actually. That still doesn't explain why so many sections don't have subway service, and the lack of East-West service.  

Subway deserts - No lines were ever built there. Lines were built to serve the highest-need neighborhood which did not yet have service. Only finitely many lines were built, so the sections which were deemed to have the most need received service and everyone else has to walk. Also, the 3rd Ave El was demolished.

East-West service - in your own words, "It clearly was built just to get to and from Manhattan." Why? Because that's where almost everyone wants to go (especially true when it was constructed).

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22 minutes ago, quadcorder said:

Subway deserts - No lines were ever built there. Lines were built to serve the highest-need neighborhood which did not yet have service. Only finitely many lines were built, so the sections which were deemed to have the most need received service and everyone else has to walk. Also, the 3rd Ave El was demolished.

East-West service - in your own words, "It clearly was built just to get to and from Manhattan." Why? Because that's where almost everyone wants to go (especially true when it was constructed).

Right but you see, my understanding of the Bronx was that the entire borough (save a few areas) was built for the middle class to get to and from Manhattan, that's why it's odd that so few subways were built there because most of the neighborhoods would be similar in terms of demographics and so on, and even looking at the current map, it's very clear that you have large areas with no subways at all.  Now there are a few neighborhoods that I know about and why they don't have subways, but it was political to a degree, and of course there was the whole Robert Moses era where he changed the Bronx significantly with his projects.

For example, I know that all of the neighborhoods that run along the Grand Concourse were built up because the Grand Concourse was modeled to be one the best and most grand roads in the Bronx and modeled after the famous Champs-Élysées in Paris, and that's why it is so wide and has the subways there as well, not to mention the very expensive architecture used in a lot of the buildings along the Concourse.  I'm guessing that some areas simply weren't as developed or not at all?  I mean Soundview in parts is built up, but perhaps it wasn't when they first started with the subways...

I've actually watched a few videos on the development of the Bronx, but this is something that was never really clear to me.

I did some digging, and just found this article from 2017.  It's very deep actually:

https://ny.curbed.com/2017/7/27/15985648/nyc-subway-robert-moses-power-broker

To add to what it says and what I said above, I guess one reason was the desire of making the Bronx for the middle class, and at some point, to be middle class was to drive, so that would then explain why some areas didn't get subways based on what this link says.  It's a little ironic though when you think about it, that at some point, the subways were seen as outdated.  I also wasn't aware of how anti-transit Moses was. I just recall him destroying parts of the Bronx with expressways, but he was extremely influential in shaping NYC and what we have today.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I personally don't understand the subway layout in the Bronx at all to be frank. It sucks. That's the best way to put it.  It clearly was built just to get to and from Manhattan, and worse of all it leaves huge swaths of areas with nothing.  I often times refuse assignments in certain parts of the Bronx because it is too much of a headache to reach, and you usually have to go into Manhattan, then back into the Bronx if you want to take the subway, or make a gazillion transfers with the local buses and sit on a long bus ride, which also doesn't interest me.  Believe it or not, often times, the fastest way is take an express bus into Manhattan and then transfer on the Upper East Side.  The real issue is there is no East-West access in the Bronx and it is clear that it is a need given how packed most of the "crosstown" Bronx buses are.  The topography and street layout certainly doesn't help things.

I mean I would like one of you subway buffs to explain the history because to me it makes no sense. There is no way that the (4)(5) and (6) are going to cut it and that's what serves most of the Bronx.  

As far as the coverage goes, the Bronx had more subway service in the past; what was the 9th Avenue elevated fed into the Jerome line now serving the (4), so Jerome also had West Side subway service. On top of that, the destruction of the Third Av El has left a wide, gaping hole in the Bronx's coverage.

The subway has always been Manhattan centric. The Crosstown Line was the one, half-assed attempt at making it not so, and ended up being so poorly thought out that they never thought to do it again. It also doesn't help that an E-W line would basically only serve the Bronx, which made other parts of the city not want to fund a line that could only ever be used to go within the Bronx. 

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39 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

As far as the coverage goes, the Bronx had more subway service in the past; what was the 9th Avenue elevated fed into the Jerome line now serving the (4), so Jerome also had West Side subway service. On top of that, the destruction of the Third Av El has left a wide, gaping hole in the Bronx's coverage.

The subway has always been Manhattan centric. The Crosstown Line was the one, half-assed attempt at making it not so, and ended up being so poorly thought out that they never thought to do it again. It also doesn't help that an E-W line would basically only serve the Bronx, which made other parts of the city not want to fund a line that could only ever be used to go within the Bronx. 

What would have made the Crosstown line better?

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I personally don't understand the subway layout in the Bronx at all to be frank. It sucks. That's the best way to put it.  It clearly was built just to get to and from Manhattan, and worse of all it leaves huge swaths of areas with nothing.  I often times refuse assignments in certain parts of the Bronx because it is too much of a headache to reach, and you usually have to go into Manhattan, then back into the Bronx if you want to take the subway, or make a gazillion transfers with the local buses and sit on a long bus ride, which also doesn't interest me.  Believe it or not, often times, the fastest way is take an express bus into Manhattan and then transfer on the Upper East Side.  The real issue is there is no East-West access in the Bronx and it is clear that it is a need given how packed most of the "crosstown" Bronx buses are.  The topography and street layout certainly doesn't help things.

 

I mean I would like one of you subway buffs to explain the history because to me it makes no sense. There is no way that the (4)(5) and (6) are going to cut it and that's what serves most of the Bronx.  

The interesting thing is that the Bronx is well covered compared to Queens, Staten island, and South East Brooklyn

IND Second System:

https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/IND_Second_System_-_1929_Plan

Quote

Bronx

Boston Road Line: From the Second Avenue Line, 4 tracks under the river to Alexander Avenue, passing 149th St. and Third Avenue, then northeasterly to the intersection of Elton, Brook and Washington Aves., then to Boston Road at the junction of that thoroughfare with 163rd St. and Third Ave. Here, 2 tracks would branch off as outlined below. The Boston Road line would continue with 2 tracks along Boston Road to 177th St. At that point the subway would emerge onto an el, continue through the 180th St. yard, and use the White Plains Rd. line, (which would be modified to B division standards). A Morris Park Avenue Line would arise from this line in the 180th St. yard as well (outlined below). This entire line would be 4 tracks.

163rd St-Hunts Point, Lafayette Ave Line: 2 tracks branching off the Boston Road trunk line, curving east as a subway along 163rd St., and then Garrison Ave, emerging as an el at Edgewater Road and Seneca Ave., across the Bronx River, then along Lafayette Avenue for several miles to East Tremont Ave at East 177th St. This would include a transfer with the Pelham line at Hunts Point Avenue. The line would serve the extreme East Bronx (i.e. near the Bruckner interchange and on to Throgs Neck).

Concourse Line Extension: From 205th and Bainbridge, along Burke Avenue to Boston Road, and then along Boston Road approx 2 miles to Baychester Avenue, 2 tracks. This would thus be an east-west Bronx line heading in the direction of today's Co-op City, and would include a transfer with the White Plains Road line at Burke Avenue.

Morris Park Avenue-Wilson Avenue Line: 2 tracks northeasterly along Morris Park Avenue (does not say whether this would be el or subway), and then north along Wilson Avenue to Boston Road to meet the Concourse Line extension and continue to Baychester Avenue and Boston Road.

An extensive knowledge of Bronx geography, or a map, helps enormously in envisioning these lines. Clearly, parts of the Lafayette Ave. line duplicate the Pelham line (which was then run by the competing IRT), but there are areas of the East Bronx that are not served today that would have been had the line been built. The Morris Park Avenue Line was clearly planned without knowing that the NYW&B would become available for rapid transit use.

 

Edited by N6 Limited

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