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AlgorithmOfTruth

To all Train Operators who have had experienced a "12–9" passenger collision

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Often times, many of us take the transit system we have at our fingertips for granted, and not only bad mouth the services we are provided with, but also treat employees disrespectfully as a result. This discussion was created by me to acknowledge current T/O's that have experienced a 12–9 and to those who have unfortunately resigned from the profession after experiencing a 12–9. I'm not certain if the schoolcar curriculum has implemented changes to compensate for that dreaded reality that every T/O faces when they're out on the road, but I would hope they instruct student T/O's to respect the saying, "Safety first." Correct me if I'm wrong, but T/O's are instructed to visually inspect the undercarriage of their train directly afterwards a passenger is struck by their train. I can't speak for everyone, but that would send shivers down my spine, especially after still being in shock after what just happened. This aspect of emergency protocol can severely disrupt T/O's mentally. To all T/O's who have experienced 12–9s, you have my undying respect and gratitude.

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37 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

Shouldn't this be in the transit employment forum?

Not really...

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12 hours ago, LGA Link N train said:

Shouldn't this be in the transit employment forum?

Not necessarily. This thread isn't concerned with information concerning civil service exams for job titles nor the hiring process of qualified candidates. Here, I am offering T/O's, past and present, an opportunity to share their experiences regarding 12–9s to enforce our support for them.

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I haven't personally experienced a 12-9, but I have one plea for everybody: STAY OFF THE TRACKS. I don't care if you just paid $1000 for your new phone, it isn't worth dying over (and what's it doing on the tracks in the first place?). If you're gonna do graffiti, why not do it someplace where you aren't in danger of getting mowed down by a train? And the yellow line is there for a reason, stay behind it! If you feel sick or faint, step even further back. And for the love of god, leaning over the platform edge to look for headlights isn't gonna make the train come any sooner, but do you know how many people this month alone have been hit by a train because part of their body was over the tracks?

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14 hours ago, Snowblock said:

I haven't personally experienced a 12-9, but I have one plea for everybody: STAY OFF THE TRACKS. I don't care if you just paid $1000 for your new phone, it isn't worth dying over (and what's it doing on the tracks in the first place?). If you're gonna do graffiti, why not do it someplace where you aren't in danger of getting mowed down by a train? And the yellow line is there for a reason, stay behind it! If you feel sick or faint, step even further back. And for the love of god, leaning over the platform edge to look for headlights isn't gonna make the train come any sooner, but do you know how many people this month alone have been hit by a train because part of their body was over the tracks?

I actually knew someone who tried to get her phone at 63 Drive but an R46 (R) train came in then BOOM. I'm not sure what actually happened but when they announced her death, my middle school at the time went crazy and were griefed or suprised. It also happened during a G.O. where Forest Hills bound (R) trains were running express so that makes getting a 12-9 worse. A little off topic, but I wanted to share out cause it felt relevant enough

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I have never had one though I have had several (about 6) very close calls. I have also responded to two man unders and it’s not a fun event to be a part of to say the least.

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6 hours ago, LGA Link N train said:

I actually knew someone who tried to get her phone at 63 Drive but an R46 (R) train came in then BOOM. I'm not sure what actually happened but when they announced her death, my middle school at the time went crazy and were griefed or suprised. It also happened during a G.O. where Forest Hills bound (R) trains were running express so that makes getting a 12-9 worse. A little off topic, but I wanted to share out cause it felt relevant enough

"If you drop something on the tracks, LEAVE IT, do NOT go onto the tracks for any reason. Notify a police officer or an MTA employee, remain alert, and have a safe day." –MTA New York City Transit

 

That woman could've been saved if those words resounded more profoundly with the public.

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1 hour ago, INDman said:

I have never had one though I have had several (about 6) very close calls. I have also responded to two man unders and it’s not a fun event to be a part of to say the least.

That's absolutely horrifying! I'd be shaken up if I was doing a trip on that line and heard word about that on radio! Do they dispatch TSS's to such scenes?

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6 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

"If you drop something on the tracks, LEAVE IT, do NOT go onto the tracks for any reason. Notify a police officer or an MTA employee, remain alert, and have a safe day." –MTA New York City Transit

 

That woman could've been saved if those words resounded more profoundly with the public.

Then again, I don't fully know what happened. There were some claiming that she went to grab her phone from the edge 

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21 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

That's absolutely horrifying! I'd be shaken up if I was doing a trip on that line and heard word about that on radio! Do they dispatch TSS's to such scenes?

When I had my near miss incidents, no except for one where there was a M/I in the area and he removed the individual from the roadbed. On the others I just recharged my train and yelled at the offending individuals. Before I got promoted, I no longer got upset when this would happen, as I knew it would never be my fault if I did hit/kill someone on the tracks. But I also have a different mindset than most who operate trains, as it’s some thing I always wanted to do, full well knowing I maybe involved in someone’s death. And that’s not to say anything negative about those who operate trains and see it as just another job. This dark side of the job is very rarely talked about with new hires.

Edited by INDman

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On 2/1/2018 at 10:09 PM, LGA Link N train said:

I actually knew someone who tried to get her phone at 63 Drive but an R46 (R) train came in then BOOM. I'm not sure what actually happened but when they announced her death, my middle school at the time went crazy and were griefed or suprised. It also happened during a G.O. where Forest Hills bound (R) trains were running express so that makes getting a 12-9 worse. A little off topic, but I wanted to share out cause it felt relevant enough

This was that incident. It was just last April. http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/04/03/girl-killed-by-train-queens/

While I don't work for the TA, I have been on a train that was involved in a 12-9 at 125 Street (a D train stopped short with only 5 of its 8 cars in). Passengers were ushered onto the next train on the local track. I believe that person survived but had legs amputated.

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10 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

This was that incident. It was just last April. http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/04/03/girl-killed-by-train-queens/

While I don't work for the TA, I have been on a train that was involved in a 12-9 at 125 Street (a D train stopped short with only 5 of its 8 cars in). Passengers were ushered onto the next train on the local track. I believe that person survived but had legs amputated.

Yes, that's the right story. I was surprised when I heard the news 

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I'd like to acknowledge Train Operator Quinones for his outstanding recovery after braving through a very dark experience in his life after experiencing a 12–9 while out on the road. I'm not sure if he's picked into A Division permanently after coming back to work, (At the time this video was uploaded, he was doing AM runs on the (5).) but hopefully the comraderie in the crew office he works out of is positive, strong, and encouraging. Either way you look at it, those Manhattan-bound (5) trips run heavy with people heading to work or school and are consequentially stressful for T/O's as well as C/R's.

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On 2/3/2018 at 7:30 PM, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

I'd like to acknowledge Train Operator Quinones for his outstanding recovery after braving through a very dark experience in his life after experiencing a 12–9 while out on the road. I'm not sure if he's picked into A Division permanently after coming back to work, (At the time this video was uploaded, he was doing AM runs on the (5).) but hopefully the comraderie in the crew office he works out of is positive, strong, and encouraging. Either way you look at it, those Manhattan-bound (5) trips run heavy with people heading to work or school and are consequentially stressful for T/O's as well as C/R's.

Wow, didn't even realize this was posted here! My dad's actually the guy who's doing this series and interviewed Paul Quinones for this video. (Some of the b-rolls are actually from my transit videos throughout the years 😂)

There was some clips that weren't in the final cut here but from my understanding, he was devastated after that 12-9 (to the point where he'd have nightmares, panic attacks, was depressed, etc, he talks about it starting at around 6:07 in case you didn't see the video) but eventually found the courage to get back into the cab of a train and operate one knowing full well that a similar incident could totally happen again. Totally gave me a newfound respect for him and for train operators in general.

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7 minutes ago, LegoBrickBreaker101 said:

Wow, didn't even realize this was posted here! My dad's actually the guy who's doing this series and interviewed Paul Quinones for this video. (Some of the b-rolls are actually from my transit videos throughout the years 😂)

There was some clips that weren't in the final cut here but from my understanding, he was devastated after that 12-9 (to the point where he'd have nightmares, panic attacks, was depressed, etc, he talks about it starting at around 6:07 in case you didn't see the video) but eventually found the courage to get back into the cab of a train and operate one knowing full well that a similar incident could totally happen again. Totally gave me a newfound respect for him and for train operators in general.

Kudos to your dad for creating these videos! Thank you to both you and him for uploading this content for the railfan community to view!

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The 5yrs I've been down here so far I have had three 12-9's already. They were all suicides expect the first guy by miracle survived. My last one was just back in October. I'll never forget how he looked right at me just before he jumped. The sound of the impact is something I'll never forgot.

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I've had a 1 12-9........ Its nerve wrecking especially when it takes about 2-5 minutes for it to actually sink in what just happened! 

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11 hours ago, elantra06 said:

The 5yrs I've been down here so far I have had three 12-9's already. They were all suicides expect the first guy by miracle survived. My last one was just back in October. I'll never forget how he looked right at me just before he jumped. The sound of the impact is something I'll never forgot.

That's something I'd never forget if I were operating just before a passenger jumped in front of my train—the emotion in their eyes right before they give up on life... It's beyond unfortunate for the T/O and never painless for the victim. Nowadays, I see more T/O's blowing the horn as they make their way into stations, alerting passengers to step away from the platform edge. While it doesn't eliminate the occurrence of 12–9s, it's always better to assume someone will jump or fall onto the trackbed then not to, this way you're prepared for the worst case scenario.

Edited by AlgorithmOfTruth

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11 hours ago, I Run Trains said:

I've had a 1 12-9........ Its nerve wrecking especially when it takes about 2-5 minutes for it to actually sink in what just happened! 

I wouldn't believe what just happened for a few minutes afterwards as well, I'd be in a state of shock! It's too traumatic to physically witness a passenger make contact with a train—I'd instantly let go of the controller, throwing her into emergency and forcefully shut my eyes hoping the victim made it alive as the train screeches to a halt. What I really don't like is that people will scout places in the system that are situated on sharp grades where trains make ground very quickly. I've mentioned this elsewhere in the forums, but there are particular locations in the system where placing timers would lower the incidence of 12–9s. An example or two would be the final approaches into the 77th Street (6) train station (southbound) and the Pelham Parkway (2) train station (southbound). It's no surprise to me that yesterday someone chose the Manhattan-bound track at the Fordham Road (D) train station to end it all. You could easily hit 45 MPH coming into that station if you leave the deadman on parallel.

Edited by AlgorithmOfTruth

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12 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

I wouldn't believe what just happened for a few minutes afterwards as well, I'd be in a state of shock! It's too traumatic to physically witness a passenger make contact with a train—I'd instantly let go of the controller, throwing her into emergency and forcefully shut my eyes hoping the victim made it alive as the train screeches to a halt. What I really don't like is that people will scout places in the system that are situated on sharp grades where trains make ground very quickly. I've mentioned this elsewhere in the forums, but there are particular locations in the system where placing timers would lower the incidence of 12–9s. An example or two would be the final approaches into the 77th Street (6) train station (southbound) and the Pelham Parkway (2) train station (southbound). It's no surprise to me that yesterday someone chose the Manhattan-bound track at the Fordham Road (D) train station to end it all. You could easily hit 45 MPH coming into that station if you leave the deadman on parallel.

You would get inntrouble letting go the controller especially if you are on new tech. You have to place the train in emergency. Not let the control go. They want to know you hand control of the train at all times 

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12 hours ago, I Run Trains said:

You would get inntrouble letting go the controller especially if you are on new tech. You have to place the train in emergency. Not let the control go. They want to know you hand control of the train at all times 

I'm guessing they can check if you had let go of the controller if it were an NTT? Similarly, can they check for signs of a T/O letting go of the spring-loaded deadman's controller on the more basic R62s and R62A's used in A Division? To detect if a timer was passed at danger causing the 12–9, all they have to do is inspect the painted triparm adjacent to the signal on the trackbed. If the yellow paint is damaged by the train's contact shoes, I feel bad for that T/O... I remember this one T/O working the (6) awhile back saying that the controllers on the R62s used on the (3) are quite heavy to hold down for some reason. Hopefully that problem was addressed and fixed, because having to apply any more than 5–10 pounds of weight to keep the controller grounded is a hazard and can do more harm than good.

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