The annoyance of wheelchair boarding at busses

[EphraimB]

It's very annoying that the driver has to get up from his seat and open the ramp to let a person in a wheelchair get on the bus before allowing everyone else on. It's the biggest problem for someone with a pay-per-ride MetroCard transferring from a train to a bus because it could take up enough time that 2 hours would elapse before you dip your MetroCard on the bus, resulting in a double fare. Why can't people with wheelchairs just use access-a-ride or the MTA making a platform by every bus stop?

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

Your thread seems to be expressing anger instead of posing an actual concern, wheelchair access increases a disabled persons mobility and practicality to get around for a system with a larger desire, than say access a ride. It also alleviates use of access a ride, which is somewhat costly. 

The MTA wanted to do this for these reasons and they wont get rid of it since every bus has some form of wheelchair boarding and ridership would go down.

The MTA cant make platforms at every bus stop since that costs $$$$$, especially on a local line, and bus stops would need more space since they must align somewhat perfectly to the platform, so it could actually make a service take longer.

[EphraimB]

It's not fair for someone that wants to get a free transfer from a subway to a bus with a pay-per-ride MetroCard. Let's say that someone wants to get from midtown to Willowbrook, Staten Island for $2.75. They would have to take the  train to South Ferry and take the Staten Island Ferry to the S61 Bus. Now let's say that after waiting for the S61 bus, there's a person with a wheelchair. After the whole ramp thing and the person with a wheelchair goes on the bus, you dip your MetroCard and it charged you a double fare. That person would be pissed.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The same people complaining about wheelchairs better hope they don't end up in one, because then they'll hear everybody complaining about them. Yes, the process is sorta long to board the bus (even with low-floor buses), but I'd rather have that then have those people resort to Accesspool-A-Ride.

Also, I would not wait until the last possible second, that's just irresponsibility on your part. That trip does not come close to two hours.  Even if you took the local  all the way from Columbus Circle to South Ferry, then the ferry, it doesn't come close to 2 hours (not even during rush hour).

The system isn't your taxi ride.

[Dannny]

Uh.... unless it takes them 2 hours to board the bus then I don’t think you should have a issue. Comeon, at most it takes them 2 minutes. Stop complaining. 

[trainfan22]

Most people who do subway to bus commutes and vice versa aren't long enough where one wheelchair rider will cause them to lose their free transfer. Besides with LF buses the wheelchair boarding process is much quicker.

 

 

 

[EphraimB]

A few weeks ago, I was at my grandparents house at Willowbrook, Staten Island and I took the S61 bus to St George to get on the Staten Island Ferry to Lower Manhattan where I work. After a few stops there was a person in a wheelchair, so the bus driver had to do the whole ramp thing for the person in the wheelchair to get on and the same thing to get off 1 stop before St George. I had to run to catch the Staten Island Ferry which I luckily made. But what would happen if there would be a few people in wheelchairs causing people to miss the Staten Island Ferry and be late for work?

[Jdog14]

I find this post to be quite ignorant to say the least. Wheelchair passengers have just as much right to ride the system as able bodied people. 

I don't quite understand the complaints about a boarding wheelchair passenger taking up so much time that it would cause someone on a PPR to miss the 2 hr transfer window. For one Low Floor buses take maybe 1 minute or two to board one (depending on the crowding) and even then if you miss the window, whats wrong with asking the driver to be waived on? 

I also believe that if you know said bus line will be one where many wheelchair passengers are boarding and alighting then maybe either you need to seek alternative routes, or possibly look into getting an unlimited metrocard. 

[Brillant93]

One of the reasons why there are low floor buses is because its easier for wheelchairs to get on the bus. Be glad its not those old RTS with the broken lifts and such that takes about 5 minutes or more. Now a major concern are those walkers being allowed to block the front of the bus. One time I was riding the B41 from Flatbush and these ladies had these walkers blocking the front where no one could pass them. With wheelchairs the seats go up so the wheelchairs can go in sideways but walkers can just stick right out. 

[biGC323232]

20 minutes ago, Jdog14 said:

I find this post to be quite ignorant to say the least. Wheelchair passengers have just as much right to ride the system as able bodied people. 

I don't quite understand the complaints about a boarding wheelchair passenger taking up so much time that it would cause someone on a PPR to miss the 2 hr transfer window. For one Low Floor buses take maybe 1 minute or two to board one (depending on the crowding) and even then if you miss the window, whats wrong with asking the driver to be waived on? 

I also believe that if you know said bus line will be one where many wheelchair passengers are boarding and alighting then maybe either you need to seek alternative routes, or possibly look into getting an unlimited metrocard. 

I agree with you 100 percent... the way buses are set up nowadays makes it easier for ppl with disabilities....Also  you have to keep in mind most can't use the subway  cause of some entrances.....

[EphraimB]

58 minutes ago, Coney Island Av said:

What if you were in a wheelchair? How would you feel if someone said the exact same thing to you?

I would let everyone else board first unless the bus stop is nowhere near a subway station.

[BreeddekalbL]

1 hour ago, Brillant93 said:

One of the reasons why there are low floor buses is because its easier for wheelchairs to get on the bus. Be glad its not those old RTS with the broken lifts and such that takes about 5 minutes or more. Now a major concern are those walkers being allowed to block the front of the bus. One time I was riding the B41 from Flatbush and these ladies had these walkers blocking the front where no one could pass them. With wheelchairs the seats go up so the wheelchairs can go in sideways but walkers can just stick right out. 

I see plus you also have those with shopping carts that do that , also they should strictly enforce the closed strollers rule

[Jdog14]

20 minutes ago, EphraimB said:

I would let everyone else board first unless the bus stop is nowhere near a subway station.

 

Okay, but what if the bus is already crowded, and then there are atleast a dozen or two people waiting outside? The bus becomes so full that the wheelchair is unable to board (and as far as I know the bus must be able to accommodate the wheelchair otherwise it goes OOS but someone else can probably state the official policy).

 

For me personally the fact that someone in a wheelchair being accommodated is such an issue sticks out to me as nothing but selfish. One day you will look back at this same thread and wish SOMEONE would accommodate you. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

44 minutes ago, EphraimB said:

I would let everyone else board first unless the bus stop is nowhere near a subway station.

But don't you live far from a subway station? So you wouldn't even be affected to begin with...

It's funny how you give out examples to make your (inconsiderate) point, and then directly relate them you you down to the tee. It's not helping you out here much, buddy.

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

12 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

But don't you live far from a subway station? So you wouldn't even be affected to begin with...

It's funny how you give out examples to make your (inconsiderate) point, and then directly relate them you you down to the tee. It's not helping you out here much, buddy.

Agreed, technically, he resides near Bch 9th st., it's far away if you walk which im assuming he does due to the 113/114 reliability issues

[EphraimB]

6 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

But don't you live far from a subway station? So you wouldn't even be affected to begin with...

It's funny how you give out examples to make your (inconsiderate) point, and then directly relate them you you down to the tee. It's not helping you out here much, buddy.

I'm talking about the bus stop at Mott Av /Beach 20.

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

This has to be one of the most ignorant threads I've seen on these forums...

You do realize that transfers last at least 2 hours with a 30 minute grace period, right? A passenger with a wheelchair will be the least of your worries if you want to make your transfer: your train can be delayed and stuck in a tunnel for an hour, the ferry never shows up and you miss your connect to the S61, etc. You could literally make any other point as to why you should worry about you missing your transfer, but you choose to blame wheelchair passengers?...

[EphraimB]

7 minutes ago, LegoBrickBreaker101 said:

You do realize that transfers last at least 2 hours with a 30 minute grace period, right?

What do you mean by 30 minute grace period?

 

7 minutes ago, LegoBrickBreaker101 said:

A passenger with a wheelchair will be the least of your worries if you want to make your transfer: your train can be delayed and stuck in a tunnel for an hour, the ferry never shows up and you miss your connect to the S61, etc. You could literally make any other point as to why you should worry about you missing your transfer, but you choose to blame wheelchair passengers?...

I'm more worried about vice versa. A bus scheduled to arrive in St George with enough time to make the ferry but you miss the ferry because of a lot of people with wheelchairs boarding the bus.

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

1 minute ago, EphraimB said:

What do you mean by 30 minute grace period?

 

I'm more worried about vice versa. A bus scheduled to arrive in St George with enough time to make the ferry but you miss the ferry because of a lot of people with wheelchairs boarding the bus.

1. After the 2 hours are up, there's usually an extra 30 minutes or so before one loses the transfer, I might be remembering the name wrong but you get what it is now.

2. Unless I'm mistaken, buses on Staten Island are scheduled to try and get to the ferry terminal before the ferry is supposed to leave. That doesn't make your point anymore valid considering that many other things could go wrong on your commute, whether it be that your bus is constantly held back by red lights, or there's a random car or truck stuck in front of the bus, but a wheelchair passenger isn't going to make the difference between whether or not you make the ferry... adding onto that, the ferry ride only takes 30 minutes, and the longest trip on Staten Island (I think it's the S78, all the way from Bricktown Mall to St. George) takes roughly an hour and 30 minutes. That entire trip is gonna be 2 hours, considering you make the buses and ferry on time, meaning that you'll get your transfer. If you're still worried about this, get on an earlier bus and actually PLAN your trip making sure that you get to your places on time and you won't have to make excuses like "Wheelchair passengers are making me miss my 2 hour transfer"...

[checkmatechamp13]

4 hours ago, EphraimB said:

It's not fair for someone that wants to get a free transfer from a subway to a bus with a pay-per-ride MetroCard. Let's say that someone wants to get from midtown to Willowbrook, Staten Island for $2.75. They would have to take the  train to South Ferry and take the Staten Island Ferry to the S61 Bus. Now let's say that after waiting for the S61 bus, there's a person with a wheelchair. After the whole ramp thing and the person with a wheelchair goes on the bus, you dip your MetroCard and it charged you a double fare. That person would be pissed.

 

4 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The same people complaining about wheelchairs better hope they don't end up in one, because then they'll hear everybody complaining about them. Yes, the process is sorta long to board the bus (even with low-floor buses), but I'd rather have that then have those people resort to Accesspool-A-Ride.

Also, I would not wait until the last possible second, that's just irresponsibility on your part. That trip does not come close to two hours.  Even if you took the local  all the way from Columbus Circle to South Ferry, then the ferry, it doesn't come close to 2 hours (not even during rush hour).

The system isn't your taxi ride.

I commute from CCNY (much further north than Midtown obviously) to an area a bit further out than the Willowbrook area, and I'm usually home in around 2 hours or so. Getting to St. George from CCNY within 2 hours is no issue. (I will say there was one time when there was a ridiculous amount of traffic on Victory Blvd after a snowstorm, and I ended up catching a bus at 8:30am and catching an 11:00am ferry (and this was after I decided to walk from Highland Avenue to the ferry to avoid being stuck in even more traffic, but cases like that are a rarity)

3 hours ago, Jdog14 said:

I find this post to be quite ignorant to say the least. Wheelchair passengers have just as much right to ride the system as able bodied people. 

I don't quite understand the complaints about a boarding wheelchair passenger taking up so much time that it would cause someone on a PPR to miss the 2 hr transfer window. For one Low Floor buses take maybe 1 minute or two to board one (depending on the crowding) and even then if you miss the window, whats wrong with asking the driver to be waived on? 

2

To be fair, in the general instance where you've missed your transfer window, you're assuming the B/O will actually let you on (and you're also assuming that there's no undercover cops on the bus, or if there are, they'll accept your story). 

2 hours ago, EphraimB said:

I would let everyone else board first unless the bus stop is nowhere near a subway station.

So what, only subway riders matter now? People transferring from other buses don't count.

2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

But don't you live far from a subway station? So you wouldn't even be affected to begin with...

It's funny how you give out examples to make your (inconsiderate) point, and then directly relate them you you down to the tee. It's not helping you out here much, buddy.

4

To be fair, on the trip home, he takes the Q113/114 (if there's one coming shortly) so the extra minute of dwell time does affect him. (Not saying it's something to get worked up about, but in the rare event that he got on the subway 2+ hours prior and is hustling to make that transfer, it would affect him)

1 hour ago, LegoBrickBreaker101 said:

This has to be one of the most ignorant threads I've seen on these forums...

You do realize that transfers last at least 2 hours with a 30 minute grace period, right? A passenger with a wheelchair will be the least of your worries if you want to make your transfer: your train can be delayed and stuck in a tunnel for an hour, the ferry never shows up and you miss your connect to the S61, etc. You could literally make any other point as to why you should worry about you missing your transfer, but you choose to blame wheelchair passengers?...

1

I believe it's an 18 minute grace period, similar to the lockout period between swipes on an unlimited.

As it relates to buses out of the St. George Terminal specifically, the more pressing issue is that B/Os have to stop messing around with the layovers there. If the bus is scheduled to depart at 5:30pm, that means you should be pulling out of the stop at 5:30pm, not powering up the bus and pulling into the stop at 5:30pm. I get it, if the ferry is late, you don't want to leave people behind, but once you start seeing people walking out of the terminal and onto the bus ramps, the B/Os should be pulling into the stops and allowing them to board, and the dispatchers should work to minimize the amount of time buses are held if the ferry is late.

1 hour ago, EphraimB said:

I'm more worried about vice versa. A bus scheduled to arrive in St George with enough time to make the ferry but you miss the ferry because of a lot of people with wheelchairs boarding the bus.

 

In practice, that usually doesn't happen. Staten Island routes have low enough ridership (not to say ridership is low, but compared to routes in other parts of the city, it's relatively low) that the probability of multiple wheelchair passengers on the bus is relatively low. In any case, there's other issues besides just wheelchairs: Some bus stops being spaced too closely, causing buses to stop at both of them and miss the green light (On the S61 off the top of my head, I'm thinking of the Victory & Van Duzer and Victory & Bay stops). Then there's B/Os who crawl the bus, and of course depending on the route, traffic (On the S61, there's chokepoints around Manor, Slosson, and Clove, depending on the time of day and direction). 

1 hour ago, LegoBrickBreaker101 said:

1. After the 2 hours are up, there's usually an extra 30 minutes or so before one loses the transfer, I might be remembering the name wrong but you get what it is now.

2. Unless I'm mistaken, buses on Staten Island are scheduled to try and get to the ferry terminal before the ferry is supposed to leave. That doesn't make your point anymore valid considering that many other things could go wrong on your commute, whether it be that your bus is constantly held back by red lights, or there's a random car or truck stuck in front of the bus, but a wheelchair passenger isn't going to make the difference between whether or not you make the ferry... adding onto that, the ferry ride only takes 30 minutes, and the longest trip on Staten Island (I think it's the S78, all the way from Bricktown Mall to St. George) takes roughly an hour and 30 minutes. That entire trip is gonna be 2 hours, considering you make the buses and ferry on time, meaning that you'll get your transfer. If you're still worried about this, get on an earlier bus and actually PLAN your trip making sure that you get to your places on time and you won't have to make excuses like "Wheelchair passengers are making me miss my 2 hour transfer"...

2

1. Yeah, it's a grace period, but it's 18 minutes, not 30.

2. To be fair, there's often times when buses are delayed to the point where they can still make the ferry, but only if there's no further delays. When I'm on a ferry-bound bus, I keep track of certain timepoints to get an idea of if we'll make the ferry. For example, I know if I'm on the S44, the bus should be at Henderson & Bement about 15 minutes before the ferry is scheduled to depart if I want to catch it (more like 20 minutes during rush hour). So if I'm on the bus that's scheduled to reach the ferry at 12:52PMit's 12:45PM (as opposed to the 12:37PM scheduled time) and we're at Bement & Henderson, we should still be good. But if a wheelchair passenger gets on at Cassidy Place (there's a housing project for senior citizens called Cassidy/Lafayette) then we'll most likely miss the ferry (unless we get lucky and there's a slight delay on the ferry).

So in other words, a wheelchair passenger likely isn't going to make the difference between making and missing the ferry on a normal day, but if things are already on the edge, then it's the proverbial last blow. So in other words, the primary causes of delay (closely spaced bus stops, traffic, slow B/Os, overcrowding, etc) should be addressed, and at that point, a wheelchair boarding any particular trip would just be a reasonable amount of delay.

As for the original post, it seems that there's two different delays that he's concerned about: The first being that if your trip was that long that you're cutting it close on the transfer window, and a wheelchair passenger is in front of you, that might be the difference between being charged another fare or not. There's nothing that "leaving earlier" or "planning your trip better" can do for this. If it takes you 2 hours to get to the transfer point, and you leave 30 minutes earlier, it'll still take you 2 hours to reach your transfer point (assuming that there's no express service becoming local or vice versa, or anything that would greatly speed or slow down your trip). So there's not much that can be done in that regard, except maybe changing the policy (if there is one) of mandating that wheelchair riders automatically be the first ones to board (if it's alright with the wheelchair rider, they should be allowed to board after the regular passengers).

As far as your specific example regarding taking the S78 from Bricktown to the ferry, the only type of person who would be making that trip would be a busfan intent on riding the S78 from end to end. From Bricktown to the ferry, the quickest option is to take the S78 to the SIR at Arthur Kill Road (and you're allowed a 3-legged transfer to take bus-SIR-ferry-subway or vice versa. The ferry is free anyway so it doesn't use up your transfer). To get to Manhattan, I would honestly just take the S78-S79- since that's also a 3-legged transfer, and the  is more frequent and offers better connectivity to other parts of Manhattan. (The quickest way is the S78 to the X1 or X10, but there's the issue of the extra $3.75 step-up charge you would be charged).

In any case, for the overall trip (which is different from losing your transfer) I don't like the general thought of "Just leave earlier". Yes, you should allow yourself a reasonable cushion for delays, but just blindly saying "Leave earlier" is what's causing these ridership losses the MTA is complaining about.

In any case, wheelchair passengers boarding is one of the things that it's reasonable to allow time for. Access-A-Ride is expensive to operate for the MTA, and time-consuming and unreliable for the passenger (You're supposed to allow a 1 hour window for them to pick you up, and then on top of that, they might detour you to the other end of the borough before dropping you off at your destination). Sometimes they give vouchers for cabs which gets rid of time-related issues, but it's cheaper and more environmentally-friendly to encourage them to use the regular bus system. The buses and subway stations should allow for quick and easy boarding, which benefits wheelchair/disabled riders and regular riders as well.

[Deucey]

4 hours ago, EphraimB said:

It's not fair for someone that wants to get a free transfer from a subway to a bus with a pay-per-ride MetroCard. Let's say that someone wants to get from midtown to Willowbrook, Staten Island for $2.75. They would have to take the  train to South Ferry and take the Staten Island Ferry to the S61 Bus. Now let's say that after waiting for the S61 bus, there's a person with a wheelchair. After the whole ramp thing and the person with a wheelchair goes on the bus, you dip your MetroCard and it charged you a double fare. That person would be pissed.

23 minutes from TSQ to South Ferry on  or .

SI Ferry leaves at top and bottom of the hour outside rush. Trip takes 25 minutes total.

Yacht docks at slip 3 St George. S61 leaves from Ramp A. 6 minute walk if you're slow or mobility impaired.

All buses meeting yachts leave at :03 or :33 or later.

In total, assuming you missed the yacht leaving Whitehall and are waiting 29 minutes for the next one, you have the following times on a 2-hour transfer:

23 minutes on the trains

29 minutes in the terminal

25 minutes on the yacht

6 minutes walking slowly to Ramp A

____________

83 minutes, or 1 hour and 23 minutes on a 2 hour or 120 minute transfer.

 

What is it you're bitching about now?

Oh that's right, nonsense.

 

Take the  bruh...

https://giphy.com/gifs/take-that-eYBhGySRCLYKA

[SevenEleven]

I mean it is ADA law that we board mobility impaired customers first but okay. *shrugs* What adds to the delay of assisting wheelchair customers is that everyone who is able bodied doesn't want to move out the way so that the process can go a little bit quicker. There should be no reason why I have to turn the bus off to get people to move the way I need them to move to facilitate the boarding. It's not always the person in the wheelchair, it's your fellow passengers holding up the bus both times. 

[Future ENY OP]

Along with everyone else. I totally agree that this post is very IGNORANT.  Wheelchair patrons also have the same rights as any normal passenger using this system. For you to say that just only means that you want to make the system a taxi service for you. 

I'll leave the obscene language someplace else. However, just by reading this post just makes me think your only concern is getting from point A to point B via bus.  I got some sorry 😐 news for you there buddy.  You better get yourself a car. 

 

#rantover. Carry on. 

[Mtatransit]

Tbh the only time my transfer will ever get past the 2 hr 18 min mark is when I take the subway to do things and take the bus back home on one fare. Or when I'm Bus fanning and takes the train from Queens to Far Rockaway and miss NICE bus. Otherwise there's almost no reason for the 2 hours to expire.  If a single wheelchair could cause you to lose your transfer... you must be cutting it really close. 

[Q43LTD]

Somebody lock this please. This is the most selfish post I have ever read