Breaking News: Will M'ville Depot be forced closed?

[Gotham Bus Co.]

16 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

I would personally favor the MTA just take compensation and use the money to upgrade the Amsterdam depot. They could build up and probably make it more eco-friendly so they could avoid complaints. The money could go into the capital plan as well or keep it to purchase zero emission buses or hybrids. 

It could gain them some money. Take it, use some of it, and put the rest elsewhere. 

That depends on how much money is involved. When the MTA was forced to sell Walnut Depot in 1998 (because Rupert Murdoch wanted a production facility for the NY Post), the price was around $11 million. That much today won't even buy 20 buses.

 

Plus, when Casey Stengel Depot closes to accommodate the LaGuardia AirTrain, the sale price will be zero.

[Brillant93]

11 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

That depends on how much money is involved. When the MTA was forced to sell Walnut Depot in 1998 (because Rupert Murdoch wanted a production facility for the NY Post), the price was around $11 million. That much today won't even buy 20 buses.

How much and big was walnut depot? If negotetion is an option they should get as much as they can. But I can’t see Columbia finding a depot near the area without having the government or them push out someone else. 

[Future ENY OP]

Manhattanville may face a similar fate as Walnut in the Bronx did 20 years ago hence this article

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/03/20/nyregion/in-deal-to-sell-bus-depot-the-post-would-get-a-plant.html

Credit: New York Times.

So far I've been reading everyone's response in regards to shifting buses within the Manhattan Division. The Manhattan Division is already stacked up.

Reactivate Amsterdam and you are going to have a heap of problems.. Where do you store the Museum buses?  Transit Museum currently doesn't have the space to even store.

I know this may not make sense BUT here it goes. Currently the M2, M3, M4, M5 all terminate near Inwood. Why not have KB get the M2, and M5 Those terminals are an easy deadhead to Kingsbridge. You already have the Bx7 already in Washington Heights deadheading to KB.

When Amsterdam was activated How many buses did it store?

To me- No need to reactivate Amsterdam unless there aren't any other options. (Last minute resort).

On 3/1/2018 at 7:31 PM, Brillant93 said:

AMS: M3, M4, M5, M10, M11, M35, M96/106, M104

MH: M1, M2, M7, M15 SBS, M98, M116

 

Kingsbridge: M2*, M5*

MJQ: M4*, M98(LTD)

MCH: M3*

AMS (if reactivated): M10, M11, M96/106, M104,

TU: M116

I don't think AMS has the real capacity to handle the Madison Avenue lines.

[Kanarsie Guy]

19 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Manhattanville may face a similar fate as Walnut in the Bronx did 20 years ago hence this article

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/03/20/nyregion/in-deal-to-sell-bus-depot-the-post-would-get-a-plant.html

Credit: New York Times.

So far I've been reading everyone's response in regards to shifting buses within the Manhattan Division. The Manhattan Division is already stacked up.

Reactivate Amsterdam and you are going to have a heap of problems.. Where do you store the Museum buses?  Transit Museum currently doesn't have the space to even store.

I know this may not make sense BUT here it goes. Currently the M2, M3, M4, M5 all terminate near Inwood. Why not have KB get the M2, and M5 Those terminals are an easy deadhead to Kingsbridge. You already have the Bx7 already in Washington Heights deadheading to KB.

When Amsterdam was activated How many buses did it store?

To me- No need to reactivate Amsterdam unless there aren't any other options. (Last minute resort).

 

Kingsbridge: M2*, M5*

MJQ: M4*, M98(LTD)

MCH: M3*

AMS (if reactivated): M10, M11, M96/106, M104,

TU: M116

I don't think AMS has the real capacity to handle the Madison Avenue lines.

AMS can hold about 105-115 buses.

AMS-  M5, M10, M11, M96/106, M104

MJQ -M2, M3, M4, M5

TU- M116

The real need is a lower manhattan garage to help MJQ. 

[Future ENY OP]

2 minutes ago, Kanarsie Guy said:

AMS can hold about 105-115 buses.

AMS-  M5, M10, M11, M96/106, M104

MJQ -M2, M3, M4, M5

TU- M116

MJQ for all the Madison Avenue Lines... Don't be surprised if they decide to stick an artic or 2 on Madison. That would be overkill for them.

[Kanarsie Guy]

2 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

MJQ for all the Madison Avenue Lines... Don't be surprised if they decide to stick an artic or 2 on Madison. That would be overkill for them.

The M3 & M4 are not that bad the that why you have to split the M5. The M104 will clear enough space to absorb most of Madison av.

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

Reactivate Amsterdam and you are going to have a heap of problems.. Where do you store the Museum buses?  Transit Museum currently doesn't have the space to even store.

I'm pretty sure relocating museum buses won't really be much of a challenge. A few have enough space to split the artifacts, namely Hale, MQ and ECH.

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

When Amsterdam was activated How many buses did it store?

To me- No need to reactivate Amsterdam unless there aren't any other options. (Last minute resort).

Around 125 was the most I've seen back then.

And honestly I think there won't be much choice but to use Amsterdam. Not much lots to even go to and split with. KB may be a fair choice but also may not be able to take more buses than it already has. Personally I (and I'm pretty sure others would) feel that Amsterdam needs a rebuild and come back to service. 

[Future ENY OP]

3 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

I'm pretty sure relocating museum buses won't really be much of a challenge. A few have enough space to split the artifacts, namely Hale, MQ and ECH.

Around 125 was the most I've seen back then.

And honestly I think there won't be much choice but to use Amsterdam. Not much lots to even go to and split with. KB may be a fair choice but also may not be able to take more buses than it already has. Personally I (and I'm pretty sure others would) feel that Amsterdam needs a rebuild and come back to service. 

Only reason I used KB was only b/c of the proximity from Inwood to Wash Heights for the M2, M3 and M5 especially which is a quick deadhead.

The real question is will the invest $$$$$$$ to re-do Amsterdam, possibly make it artic ready and have it hold at least 200 buses.

Personally, I can't see MCH, MJQ take on any more lines. Just the Madison Avenue lines alone is most of the service for MHV. 

[JeremiahC99]

5 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Plus, when Casey Stengel Depot closes to accommodate the LaGuardia AirTrain, the sale price will be zero.

Is Casey Stengel Depot really closing? If so, where would the 225 buses currently assigned there be stored at? Why would they do this while Jamaica Depot is getting rebuilt? 

 

Also, where did you get the Casey Stengel depot closing information from?

[Around the Horn]

41 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Is Casey Stengel Depot really closing? If so, where would the 225 buses currently assigned there be stored at? Why would they do this while Jamaica Depot is getting rebuilt? 

 

Also, where did you get the Casey Stengel depot closing information from?

The LGA Airtrain station will be built on the site of Casey.

[B35 via Church]

I know it's fun/interesting to want to talk about what routes should/would be moved where if or when this happens to MHV, but quite frankly, this angers me.... See, because I remember Hudson Pier, I remember 54th st, I remember when Amsterdam was fully operational... We're not too far removed from the demise of 126th, and to have to read that yet another bus depot in Manhattan might close down? Alright, the gentrification that took place in Harlem is expanding to Manhattanville & Hamilton Heights - but I guess 3333 Broadway couldn't be shape-shifted fast enough, so the next option is to target a bus depot?.... I don't ever want to hear any of those future would-be residents complaining about bus service up there if this happens to MHV.....

F*** Urban American Mgmt. (yes, I've heard the stories of how they're doing the older tenants dirty, since the complex isn't Mitchell-Lama anymore) & f*** Columbia U..... This simply gives me fodder for despising Ivy league schools that much more.....

[B22viaAtlanticAv]

 "I don't ever want to hear any of those future would-be residents complaining about bus service up there if this happens to MHV....."-B35

I completely agree with you on this one but given have how things are now, they will be the first ones complaining about unreliable bus service...

[Brillant93]

4 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Manhattanville may face a similar fate as Walnut in the Bronx did 20 years ago hence this article

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/03/20/nyregion/in-deal-to-sell-bus-depot-the-post-would-get-a-plant.html

Credit: New York Times.

So far I've been reading everyone's response in regards to shifting buses within the Manhattan Division. The Manhattan Division is already stacked up.

Reactivate Amsterdam and you are going to have a heap of problems.. Where do you store the Museum buses?  Transit Museum currently doesn't have the space to even store.

I know this may not make sense BUT here it goes. Currently the M2, M3, M4, M5 all terminate near Inwood. Why not have KB get the M2, and M5 Those terminals are an easy deadhead to Kingsbridge. You already have the Bx7 already in Washington Heights deadheading to KB.

When Amsterdam was activated How many buses did it store?

To me- No need to reactivate Amsterdam unless there aren't any other options. (Last minute resort).

 

Kingsbridge: M2*, M5*

MJQ: M4*, M98(LTD)

MCH: M3*

AMS (if reactivated): M10, M11, M96/106, M104,

TU: M116

I don't think AMS has the real capacity to handle the Madison Avenue lines.

I guess the reason why everyone thinks AMS depot is going to be reactivated is because where else are they going to store those buses until then? Not only that but personnel and other operations? Its a lot and building a new depot isn't going to be easy or happen overnight. Not sure about the museum fleet so I can't guess on that. 

I'm also hearing Casey might close due to the air train to laguarida? 

Ranting for the rest of the post. 

But with all these depots that are unconfirmed to be closing this puts the MTA is a very big predicament. You have new bus orders, you're rebuilding the Jamaica depot, you're spending money to try and make NYC bus service a little bit better, but how can you do that when you don't have the places to have your people work to make things better? I understand Columbia wants to extend their campus and the airtrain needs space to operate but thats going to hurt a lot of workers, bus equipment, and passengers who rely on the bus network. Basically how can you be better with little resources. Thats just me. So far its has yet to be confirmed but it should be looked into because I don't think its fair at all. Not to the MTA and not their customers. 

[Orion6025]

4 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Where do you store the Museum buses?  Transit Museum currently doesn't have the space to even store.

I doubt the museum gives 2 s#its about the bus part of their collection. They'd probably just put 5227, 100, 3100, 9098 in ENY or some other depot and scrap the rest...

[EastFlatbushLarry]

46 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I know it's fun/interesting to want to talk about what routes should/would be moved where if or when this happens to MHV, but quite frankly, this angers me.... See, because I remember Hudson Pier, I remember 54th st, I remember when Amsterdam was fully operational... We're not too far removed from the demise of 126th, and to have to read that yet another bus depot in Manhattan might close down? Alright, the gentrification that took place in Harlem is expanding to Manhattanville & Hamilton Heights - but I guess 3333 Broadway couldn't be shape-shifted fast enough, so the next option is to target a bus depot?.... I don't ever want to hear any of those future would-be residents complaining about bus service up there if this happens to MHV.....

F*** Urban American Mgmt. (yes, I've heard the stories of how they're doing the older tenants dirty, since the complex isn't Mitchell-Lama anymore) & f*** Columbia U..... This simply gives me fodder for despising Ivy league schools that much more.....

The more and more things develop within MaBSTOA (Manhattan division specifically) I really wish Hudson Pier never closed.. That would marginally help. And as i said before, rebuilding Amsterdam & running it similar to MCH would also help... Not solve... the alleged issue on the horizon. I would personally prefer to see the M3 & M5 out of KB if KB is an option storage-wise. As far as CS closing goes, the powers that be must be really banking on using the new Jamaica Depot to it's fullest potential and that College Point will absorb some NE Queens lines...

Lord, this is a mess. All this speculation... I've already had enough for today.

[JeremiahC99]

1 hour ago, Around the Horn said:

The LGA Airtrain station will be built on the site of Casey.

And where would the Casey Stengel Depot be relocated? I hope they relocate it to somewhere logical like.....FLUSHING!!!!!!!! It makes perfect sense to put the new Casey Stengel Depot there since almost every route out of the depot (except for the Q31, Q32 and Q76) either passes through or terminates at the Main Street subway station, and they should ave shorter deadheads from Main Street rather than cross the Roosevelt Avenue bridge over the Flushing River during rush hours. FYI, how many buses do that every day?

 

Also, please add an MTA bus terminal there. It would be very convenient for transferring passengers.

[BreeddekalbL]

Wtf, how is a private entity using emenent domain?

[trainfan22]

2 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

I doubt the museum gives 2 s#its about the bus part of their collection. They'd probably just put 5227, 100, 3100, 9098 in ENY or some other depot and scrap the rest...

This is what worries me the most, hopefully in the event that AMS is turned into a regular depot again, the museum buses would be stored how they was prior AMS, each depot would get at least one bus, with JG and ENY having multiple buses. The good thing about storing museum buses at AMS is its indoors and the buses aren't exposed to the elements, when BP had its Jamaica Bus RTS it was parked outside, same goes 4904 at SC (SC doesn't have any indoor storage AFAIK, only the maintenance bays are indoors). Always thought 4904 should have been moved to JG since it has indoor storage. 

[mine248]

2 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

I doubt the museum gives 2 s#its about the bus part of their collection. They'd probably just put 5227, 100, 3100, 9098 in ENY or some other depot and scrap the rest...

They actually care about them--whenever I go past AMS, they're always ready to fix the buses.

Here's my idea on the whole fiasco:

Kingsbridge: M2, M5, M104 (at 129th, all M104 runs turns into M100 LTD runs (theoretically, a bypass of Amsterdam Ave stops minus 125th St, 131st St, 135th St, 145th St, 155th St, and 163rd St))

MCH: M10, M98

Tuskegee:  M96, M106, M116

MJQ: M1, M3, M11

[Gotham Bus Co.]

16 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

And where would the Casey Stengel Depot be relocated? I hope they relocate it to somewhere logical like.....FLUSHING!!!!!!!! 

Where in Flushing? All the good land is already developed.

 

 

18 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Is Casey Stengel Depot really closing? If so, where would the 225 buses currently assigned there be stored at? Why would they do this while Jamaica Depot is getting rebuilt? 

Because Mr. Governor wants his AirTrain.

[Kanarsie Guy]

KB can not handle these lines without losing routes. Build another Bronx depot to free up KB could be another option.

[Future ENY OP]

35 minutes ago, Kanarsie Guy said:

KB can not handle these lines without losing routes. Build another Bronx depot to free up KB could be another option.

The Bronx transit grid is as much f**ked up as the Manhattan grid but the Brooklyn grid is far worse.  

First and foremost I would give GH and West Farms some lines for KB to be in the conversation to have at least the M2 and M5.  All other lines to MJQ/MCH. Uptown lines to TU. 

TA is not even thinking about building other depots. Brooklyn could use another one right in Canarsie at Foster Avenue from E101 to E105. Vacant space. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, Kanarsie Guy said:

KB can not handle these lines without losing routes. Build another Bronx depot to free up KB could be another option.

There is technically an area in Hunt's Point that can be looked at. Tiffany shops which holds a few redbirds has a bit of room to possibly construct a bus depot on.

[Kanarsie Guy]

29 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

The Bronx transit grid is as much f**ked up as the Manhattan grid but the Brooklyn grid is far worse.  

First and foremost I would give GH and West Farms some lines for KB to be in the conversation to have at least the M2 and M5.  All other lines to MJQ/MCH. Uptown lines to TU. 

TA is not even thinking about building other depots. Brooklyn could use another one right in Canarsie at Foster Avenue from E101 to E105. Vacant space. 

Won't happen ENY is to close I always thought about that. 

[JeremiahC99]

2 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Where in Flushing? All the good land is already developed.

That's what I'm also trying to find. You are right about all the good land being developed. I wish the city didn't give away good land to private developers and letting them build new development without giving into consideration traffic needs? The development just makes street congestion worse and bus service slower and unreliable. I predict this slowing of service will happen to Manhattanville Bus routes if Manhattanville Depot closes with potentially no replacement.

 

What is the next alternative to Flushing for the replacement Casey Stengel Depot?