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SI Express Bus Plan Out!

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looks good,  now to see  service span on the sim 2,4. nice to see  tottenville  downtown service.

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Thanks for the update.

------------------------------

 

Alright, So what changed (routing-wise) with any of these routes between the previous update of this plan, and today?

I'll comment on the individual routes sometime later, but to address this little nugget for a hot second:

Quote

Why have the route numbers changed?

Because the Staten Island express bus network underwent a comprehensive redesign, the route numbers had to be changed. The new 'SIM' (Staten Island to Manhattan) numbering scheme emphasizes to customers that they're being served by a brand new system, and it also makes Staten Island express service consistent with express bus service in the other boroughs (BxM for Bronx to Manhattan, BM for Brooklyn to Manhattan, and QM for Queens to Manhattan).

Two things:

- Oh, they just "had to be changed" due to the reconfiguration of the network, is a load of crap.....

- This part of the explanation would be valid, if it were worded better..... I get what they're trying to say, but changing route numbers does not make "Staten Island express service consistent with express bus service in the other boroughs"... That implicates something completely different !

 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Thanks for the update.

------------------------------

 

Alright, So what changed (routing-wise) with any of these routes between the previous update of this plan, and today?

I'll comment on the individual routes sometime later, but to address this little nugget for a hot second:

Two things:

- Oh, they just "had to be changed" due to the reconfiguration of the network, is a load of crap.....

- This part of the explanation would be valid, if it were worded better..... I get what they're trying to say, but changing route numbers does not make "Staten Island express service consistent with express bus service in the other boroughs"... That implicates something completely different !

 

Quite frankly I find this new thing far more confusing than the old one.  A thousand f-ing branches and then the SIM crap... No one ever says the prefix anyway but still. With so many branches... Jesus Christ.

Also so many buses going via 5th and via Madison...

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Posted (edited)

Finally, the MTA SI express bus plan has been released. But this not the 'final' plan. There are sure to be changes following the three public hearings and the input of the Boro President and SI council members. As for the peculiar 'SIM' route numbers, they might be temporary as all the other MTA (not MTA Bus) express routes carry an 'X#' designation.

I've combined all the MTA map pdfs and the SI Advance story into one pdf -

MTA express bus proposals 03-07-2018 (pdf)

 

Edited by Dan1
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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Dan1 said:

Finally, the MTA SI express bus plan has been released. But this not the 'final' plan. There are sure to be changes following the three public hearings and the input of the Boro President and SI council members. As for the peculiar 'SIM' route numbers, they might be temporary as all the other MTA (not MTA Bus) express routes carry an 'X#' designation.

I've combined all the MTA map pdfs and the SI Advance story into one pdf -

MTA express bus proposals 03-07-2018 (pdf)

 

Off-peak looks like a mess.  The Service Road appears to be no longer served where it was.  There's some issues with peak service too.  Forest Avenue essentially loses one Midtown express bus.  Everybody has to cram onto the SIM30 via New Jersey. Disgusting.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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17 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

I already linked this.

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Posted (edited)

My initial thoughts:

- I like what I see so far (from my personal rider's perspective). 90% of the time I go from Downtown to Midtown via Subway anyways, off peak, I'll stay on simply because there is no traffic. The new SIM2 is definitely a time saver for me.

- We need the PM service similar to the x22 and x17J to go through NJ later (until 10pm), since we do not have schedules, it is important to stress this because of the BBT/HLC lane /tube closures after 20:00 (8pm) which often creates a delay to get into the tunnel. There is minimal traffic Mondays through Thursdays via the Lincoln Tunnel.

- If you like the x1 and x10 off peak and weekends, then you'll like this, as the routes are is mostly the same. (Ed. Strikethrough on x10, it appears to be more different than not).

- Academy remains in the SI Express Bus Market, since my research has shown that there is NO formal contract between Academy (and former operator Atlantic Express) with MTA/NYCT, but a contract with the NYC Economic Development Corp. (NYC EDC) will there now be a formal contract between MTA/ NYCT and Academy? See my Comment #154 in Takeover of the X23 and X24 routes.

As a B/O, my thoughts are as follows:

- They should implement in July for the summer pick, instead of August 2018 to work out the "kinks" until the Fall pick. Let the B/O and the public share feedback. Think of the summer as the introductory period. 

- The alphabet soup of the route number is going to thoroughly confuse everybody. They should preserve the existing route numbering scheme (i.e x1 - x42 etc.) and when the new routes are implemented, flash "NEW ROUTE" similar to how the SBS says +SBS+ Select Bus Service.  Little booklets should be available with the route map and general times of operation.

 

 

Edited by 161 New York

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1 minute ago, 161 New York said:

My initial thoughts:

- I like what I see so far (from a rider's perspective). 90% of the time I go from Downtown to Midtown via Subway anyways, off peak, I'll stay on simply because there is no traffic. The new SIM2 is definitely a time saver for me.

- We need the PM service similar to the x22 and x17J to go through NJ later (until 10pm), since we do not have schedules, it is important to stress this because of the BBT/HLC lane /tube closures after 20:00 (8pm) which often creates a delay to get into the tunnel. There is minimal traffic Mondays through Thursdays via the Lincoln Tunnel.

- If you like the x1 and x10 off peak and weekends, then you'll like this, as the routes are mostly the same.

- Academy remains in the SI Express Bus Market, since my research has shown that there is NO formal contract between Academy (and former operator Atlantic Express), but a contract with the NYC Economic Development Corp. (NYC EDC) will there now be a formal contract between MTA/ NYCT and Academy? See my Comment #154 in Takeover of the X23 and X24 routes.

As a B/O, my thoughts are as follows:

- They should implement in July for the summer pick, instead of August 2018 to work out the "kinks" until the Fall pick. Think of the summer as the introductory period.

- The alphabet soup of the route number is going to thoroughly confuse everybody. They should preserve the existing route numbering scheme (i.e x1 - x42 etc.) and when the new routes are implemented, flash "NEW ROUTE" similar to how the SBS says +SBS+ Select Bus Service.  Little booklets should be available with the route map and general times of operation.

 

 

Who are you kidding? The X10 is definitely NOT the same.  It runs more like an X12 off-peak save it runs to Port Richmond and skips the service road.  

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Just now, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Who are you kidding? The X10 is definitely NOT the same.  It runs more like an X12 off-peak save it runs to Port Richmond and skips the service road.  

I just updated my "thoughts" upon closer inspection. 

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1 minute ago, 161 New York said:

I just updated my "thoughts" upon closer inspection. 

I'm glad I got the hell out of Staten island when I did.  I was already furious when I saw how they were screwing up the affluent parts of the North Shore (Westerleigh and parts of West Brighton are just as monied as the mid and South Shore) and I refused to stay there with the kind of politics going on.  Moving further south on the island and enduring an even longer commute didn't make sense either so I got out and left and I don't have any regrets.  Again the North Shore is getting screwed over with this new plan.  All of these people being forced to drive up to Victory from parts around Forest Avenue.  Just absurd.

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36 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Alright, So what changed (routing-wise) with any of these routes between the previous update of this plan, and today?

I'll comment on the individual routes sometime later, but to address this little nugget for a hot second:

Two things:

- Oh, they just "had to be changed" due to the reconfiguration of the network, is a load of crap.....

- This part of the explanation would be valid, if it were worded better..... I get what they're trying to say, but changing route numbers does not make "Staten Island express service consistent with express bus service in the other boroughs"... That implicates something completely different !

2

They forget that the NYCT lines (X27/28/37/38 and X63/64/68) are still labeled with "X". Also, at the very least, why not "SM" instead of "SIM"?

In any case, the first thing I thought of when I saw this map was that whole "QM3X and QM4X" crap in Queens (the renaming of the 3rd Avenue branches of the Midtown routes). It doesn't seem much less complicated than the current system.

In any case, the difference between this rendition and the last rendition (aside from the fact that numbers weren't assigned to the last rendition at the time) is that the previous rendition had 3 "trunk lines" (for lack of a better term) in Manhattan (Downtown via Church/Broadway, Midtown via FDR, and Midtown via NJ). This one adds in a Union Square via West Street trunk, a Water Street trunk, and a separate trunk that runs via the FDR-6th Avenue (in addition to the FDR-Madison trunk, and both trunks run down 5th southbound).

Also, they add a few super-express buses (basically, an X17A/J that run nonstop to the park-and-ride by the SI Mall, and an X7/8 that run nonstop to the South Beach Park-and-Ride. Personally, I think all of those will "carry air" as QJT used to say). 

15 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Off-peak looks like a mess.  The Service Road appears to be no longer served where it was.  There's some issues with peak service too.  Forest Avenue essentially loses one Midtown express bus.  Everybody has to cram onto the SIM30 via New Jersey. Disgusting.

The only area that loses off-peak service on the service road is Concord (the Targee Street/Richmond Road stops). Unfortunately for current X17 riders, that will be what covers the service road west of Slosson Avenue (which means that no express bus will serve the busy Lamberts Lane stop off-peak). 

9 minutes ago, 161 New York said:

My initial thoughts:

- I like what I see so far (from my personal rider's perspective). 90% of the time I go from Downtown to Midtown via Subway anyways, off peak, I'll stay on simply because there is no traffic. The new SIM2 is definitely a time saver for me.

- We need the PM service similar to the x22 and x17J to go through NJ later (until 10pm), since we do not have schedules, it is important to stress this because of the BBT/HLC lane /tube closures after 20:00 (8pm) which often creates a delay to get into the tunnel. There is minimal traffic Mondays through Thursdays via the Lincoln Tunnel.

1

Personally, I think the BBT is alright during evenings. It does get backed up a bit, but it's tolerable. The thing with SI is that since it's south of Manhattan, it makes sense to have all off-peak routes pass through Downtown.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The only area that loses off-peak service on the service road is Concord (the Targee Street/Richmond Road stops). Unfortunately for current X17 riders, that will be what covers the service road west of Slosson Avenue (which means that no express bus will serve the busy Lamberts Lane stop off-peak). 

 

People from all over the island used those stops, so I think it's a stupid decision. Lots of people were either dropped off or park and then pick up the bus there.  

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Posted (edited)

Very confusing, what is the x 10 and x17? And i guess the x1 is the sim1?

Edited by BreeddekalbL

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Very confusing, what is the x 10 and x17? And i guess the x1 is the sim1?

Those routes are all reconfigured.  The X10 runs almost like the current X12 but ends in Port Richmond and the X17 is something different entirely.  People think these new routes are good... You're going to have more people driving on the island to reach the express buses with these stupid configurations.  Less choices of express buses will mean just that.  Look at the mess on Forest Avenue.  We went from having FOUR express buses (two Midtown express buses and two Downtown express buses) to TWO. I can just picture that X30 now... They were already stingy with service as it is... If I were still living there, I'd drive to another express bus line, and I'd put money on it that many people that could walk will now be driving to other lines.  Very eco-friendly. <_< That started immediately after they eliminated the X16.  Everybody (myself included) would drive or get car service to the X12 on Victory.

How in the hell did they completely eliminate the Midtown express bus that ran through the most expensive parts of Westerleigh and West Brighton? Are you kidding me? All of those people used the X14 to reach Midtown.  Now they will have no choice but to drive to the X30 down on Forest but where do they park?  They'll likely drive to another line.  The areas by Slosson and Martling and the SI Zoo and so on have no local bus service, and I sure as hell would not want to take the Downtown express bus to then transfer.  

Keep tabs on the SILive page... Most of the comments are quite accurate.  This stream lining of the routes within Staten Island in particular will be a mess.  I took the express bus a good 6 years on Staten Island and know just about every line.  

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

They forget that the NYCT lines (X27/28/37/38 and X63/64/68) are still labeled with "X". Also, at the very least, why not "SM" instead of "SIM"?

 

Maybe they forgot. Or maybe there's a plan to renumber the "X" routes to BM27, QM63, etc.  This is New York, where anything can happen and sometimes does.

 

And maybe "SM" would have looked like a reference to something else.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Very confusing, what is the x 10 and x17? And i guess the x1 is the sim1?

The off-peak map should give you a better idea: http://nymta.civicconnect.com/sites/default/files/map-new-off-peak-express-network.pdf

The X10 is basically the SIM3c . So like VG8 said, it'll basically be like the X12, but terminate in Port Richmond.

The X17 will be the SIM4c (with the X17A and X17J being renumbered SIM4 and SIM8 respectively). Those routes will start in Annadale like the current X17A. Off-peak, buses will cover the Gannon Avenue portion of the X10 (since it's being rerouted to Watchogue Road).

The SM2 will cover the Arden Heights portion of the X17 (so basically, the current X19 will be extended to Tottenville and receive off-peak service). For riders going to Midtown, they will either have to transfer in Manhattan or make their way to the ETC to catch the SIM1 or SIM4.

I just noticed that off-peak, they designed it to have the SIM1/2/3/4 running.

Hopefully at the very least, they have reasonably frequent off-peak and reverse-peak service on all branches, and aren't stingy with the weekend span like they are on the current X17. (For that matter, they still need to tell us the span and frequency of these routes. Supposedly they would make the span uniform on the rush hour routes)

Also @B35 via Church here's the plan they released in October 2017 for comparison purposes: https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/3f7fbbc5-e10e-4de5-9bc4-1104a0d4ba44

Edited by checkmatechamp13
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25 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Maybe they forgot. Or maybe there's a plan to renumber the "X" routes to BM27, QM63, etc.  This is New York, where anything can happen and sometimes does.

 

And maybe "SM" would have looked like a reference to something else.

Ha! My thoughts also.

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Posted (edited)

What about the super express routes? SIM4,5,6,&8 Do they just make one pick up and go straight to the city? If so can one transfer from the local version to the super express version?

Edited by IAlam

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My thoughts on the restructuring: http://checkmatechamp1.blogspot.com/2018/03/update-on-staten-island-express-bus.html

45 minutes ago, IAlam said:

What about the super express routes? SIM4,5,6,&8 Do they just make one pick up and go straight to the city? If so can one transfer from the local version to the super express version?

Apparently they do since they're designed to stop at the park-and-rides. The thing is, the South Beach Park-and-Ride has no off-peak express service under this plan, which (as if it weren't in such an isolated location already) basically guarantees those buses will be empty. 

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I notice that with the renumbering, they are still skipping over 27, 28, 37 and 38, which leads me to believe that the sign codes for the new routes will still be the 7xxx prefix and the codes simply rewritten. Knowing the way the MTA can be, I'm willing to bet some buses will still have the old version of the codes once the new services start, which should be interesting...

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13 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

I notice that with the renumbering, they are still skipping over 27, 28, 37 and 38, which leads me to believe that the sign codes for the new routes will still be the 7xxx prefix and the codes simply rewritten. Knowing the way the MTA can be, I'm willing to bet some buses will still have the old version of the codes once the new services start, which should be interesting...

Of course....there's a ton of express buses for them to reprogram, with some on the road at the time.

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The express routes are of more concern to Staten Islanders, but I wonder if the release of the express bus route plans means that the local bus route plans are to be released soon? The SI bus study began two years ago.

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1 hour ago, Around the Horn said:

I notice that with the renumbering, they are still skipping over 27, 28, 37 and 38, which leads me to believe that the sign codes for the new routes will still be the 7xxx prefix and the codes simply rewritten. Knowing the way the MTA can be, I'm willing to bet some buses will still have the old version of the codes once the new services start, which should be interesting...

Bay Ridge, Bensonhurst and Seagate don't need to have a study nor to have their destination signs changed. All this Staten Island bus study is pure bullshit. They could of kept the X- prefix which is for NYCT (MTA).  What's not broken needs to be fixed.

Even myself, former express rider would EASILY get confused with the new prefixes out on Staten Island. I would encourage the people of Staten Island to fight for their bus service.  The (MTA) is really feeding so much bologni with this study 😂.  

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