SI Express Bus Plan Out!

[JAzumah]

I believe that this plan overall is a very solid plan.

The MTA is finally designing routes that are shorter and faster. They need to aim at keeping the running time of all routes below 90 minutes.

The park & ride super expresses are a no-brainer. It lowers operating costs and provides better service to those facilities. Get used to fewer, faster, more reliable buses everywhere. That is how express buses are supposed to work. 

I believe the SIM2 is not strong enough to operate on its own outside of rush hour. It should be integrated with the SIM4c. The SIM26 needs to stop at the Arden Heights checkpoint and retain its Super Express variant.

[S78 via Hylan]

39 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

I believe that this plan overall is a very solid plan.

The MTA is finally designing routes that are shorter and faster. They need to aim at keeping the running time of all routes below 90 minutes.

I believe the SIM2 is not strong enough to operate on its own outside of rush hour. It should be integrated with the SIM4c. The SIM26 needs to stop at the Arden Heights checkpoint and retain its Super Express variant.

I think the SIM2 would be fine. It’s better than the current X17 midday pattern. Plus, it’ll offer south shore residents are quick ride to Downtown without giving a tour of the island. 

[JAzumah]

The activity center off-peak is in Midtown. It will do fine on weekdays, but terribly on the weekends.

[checkmatechamp13]

32 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

I believe that this plan overall is a very solid plan.

The MTA is finally designing routes that are shorter and faster. They need to aim at keeping the running time of all routes below 90 minutes.

The park & ride super expresses are a no-brainer. It lowers operating costs and provides better service to those facilities. Get used to fewer, faster, more reliable buses everywhere. That is how express buses are supposed to work. 

I believe the SIM2 is not strong enough to operate on its own outside of rush hour. It should be integrated with the SIM4c. The SIM26 needs to stop at the Arden Heights checkpoint and retain its Super Express variant.

Have you been to the South Beach park-and-ride? It's in the middle of nowhere, which means if you miss the last express bus of the night, you're stuck taking either the ferry or the SIM1 to the S51/52. Unlike the ETC or SI Mall park-and-rides, there's very few residences within walking distance, so that stop will be entirely dependent on people driving to it.

As for the SIM26, they did that on purpose: They figured for a couple of more stops, they can essentially make the entire route a super-express. There's enough ridership from Tottenville & Pleasant Plains to support the route without necessarily having the Arthur Kill Road stop.

As for the SIM2, it doesn't make sense to have a Midtown-only route during off-peak hours, because Staten Island is geographically south of Manhattan, so while Midtown riders can go Downtown for service without increasing their overall travel time, having Downtown riders go to Midtown is a backtrack.

One way of increasing ridership on the SIM2 would be to have it cover the northern (Staten Island) portion of the SIM4 (and travel via Victory & Richmond as opposed to taking the WSE directly to the SIE). It'll save people in the vicinity of Richmond Avenue from having to drive all the way to Slosson for a nonstop ride.

[B35 via Church]

The South Shore changes in general, I like.... However, running buses along Hylan blvd (a la the SIM2 & SIM25) & the fact that Woodrow Rd is only covered by one of those aforementioned routes (SIM2) b/w Arden av. & Huguenot rd. I cannot concur with.... Also, I would take that SIM26 (or whichever one is the Bloomingdale route), rescind the continuation of running buses up Bloomingale to the end, and instead have buses go Bloomingdale > Woodrow > Huguenot, en route to Manhattan....

The SIM2 I would run up Huguenot from end to end & the SIM24 I would have going Huguenot > Woodrow > Arden > Arthur Kill instead..... The only thing I like about the SIM 2 really, is the fact that they took buses off Drumgoole Rd (which virtually no one disembarked along)....

The SIM22 should retain the current x21 routing & amt of stops.... Don't think the slight extension to Woods of Arden rd. is worth it....

Pressed for time right now, so I'll continue this later....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Have you been to the South Beach park-and-ride? It's in the middle of nowhere, which means if you miss the last express bus of the night, you're stuck taking either the ferry or the SIM1 to the S51/52. Unlike the ETC or SI Mall park-and-rides, there's very few residences within walking distance, so that stop will be entirely dependent on people driving to it.

As for the SIM26, they did that on purpose: They figured for a couple of more stops, they can essentially make the entire route a super-express. There's enough ridership from Tottenville & Pleasant Plains to support the route without necessarily having the Arthur Kill Road stop.

As for the SIM2, it doesn't make sense to have a Midtown-only route during off-peak hours, because Staten Island is geographically south of Manhattan, so while Midtown riders can go Downtown for service without increasing their overall travel time, having Downtown riders go to Midtown is a backtrack.

One way of increasing ridership on the SIM2 would be to have it cover the northern (Staten Island) portion of the SIM4 (and travel via Victory & Richmond as opposed to taking the WSE directly to the SIE). It'll save people in the vicinity of Richmond Avenue from having to drive all the way to Slosson for a nonstop ride.

Yeah, but people have always drove or got car service to Slosson (myself included).  Schmidts Lane is another big one that people are dropped off at.

[Dan1]

15 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

So I went to the meeting and they said that they haven't written the schedules yet, but there will likely be some (possibly many) short-turns starting at New Dorp, since it's been mentioned many times that reliability will be an issue if all trips start from the ETC, but for the sake of simplicity, they didn't mention it.

It's not that they're bypassing New Dorp, it's that they're not short-turning buses at New Dorp (or at least, assigning specific routes to short-turn at New Dorp)

 

There are currently 55 morning runs on the x2, x3 and x9 which start out at New Dorp (Tysens Lane). Despite what the MTA may believe running all Hylan express buses from the ETC will result in filled-up buses by the time they reach Guyon Avenue. But as you say let's see what the real schedules look like.

New Dorp x2, x3, x9 AM service from 09/2017 MTA timetable (in pdf)

[JAzumah]

21 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Unlike the ETC or SI Mall park-and-rides, there's very few residences within walking distance, so that stop will be entirely dependent on people driving to it.

The only time Staten Islanders are not going to drive is when there is a blizzard, hurricane, or nuclear war. A few will still try to drive in the third scenario. 

Let people travel how they want to as long as they bear the cost of doing so. It is not the MTA's business to tell people how to travel. It is their business to service the demand. There is a very good business case for running a steady diet of guaranteed seating Park & Ride buses every 15-30 minutes. The service will be very reliable and they can fill every single seat on those buses.

 

34 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

As for the SIM26, they did that on purpose: They figured for a couple of more stops, they can essentially make the entire route a super-express. There's enough ridership from Tottenville & Pleasant Plains to support the route without necessarily having the Arthur Kill Road stop.

You run it through the checkpoint to balance loads and take standees (if any) from other routes. This can also work in reverse if someone misses their normal bus. In addition, routes run better when a supervisor has to check the bus in.

 

37 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

As for the SIM2, it doesn't make sense to have a Midtown-only route during off-peak hours, because Staten Island is geographically south of Manhattan, so while Midtown riders can go Downtown for service without increasing their overall travel time, having Downtown riders go to Midtown is a backtrack.

The SIM2c would run Downtown & Midtown. The action is not in Downtown outside of rush hours. The Midtown/Downtown buses pick up a lot of passengers from Midtown and the SoHo areas because of social activities.

 

12 minutes ago, Dan1 said:

15 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

 

There are currently 55 morning runs on the x2, x3 and x9 which start out at New Dorp (Tysens Lane). Despite what the MTA may believe running all Hylan express buses from the ETC will result in filled-up buses by the time they reach Guyon Avenue. But as you say let's see what the real schedules look like.

The MTA is going to operate short turns, but they will no longer receive their own designation. I am not even sure New Dorp might be used as a break point. They may use two or three new break points for utilization purposes.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

The only time Staten Islanders are not going to drive is when there is a blizzard, hurricane, or nuclear war. A few will still try to drive in the third scenario. 

Let people travel how they want to as long as they bear the cost of doing so. It is not the MTA's business to tell people how to travel. It is their business to service the demand. There is a very good business case for running a steady diet of guaranteed seating Park & Ride buses every 15-30 minutes. The service will be very reliable and they can fill every single seat on those buses.

Letting people clog up the roads to drive to park and rides when Staten Island already has a congestion problem is just irresponsible.  No other way to put it.  You're taking people that used to walk to the express bus and putting them in their car.  

I have a similar problem in my neighborhood, but it's due to the schools.  I've been leaving earlier and earlier because express bus service has been horrendous in the AM. The trips take longer and the buses are delayed... Why? Because all of the parents have the DRIVE their kids to school clogging up the roads.  The back up along Henry Hudson Parkway and then down along West 230th street is insane, and sometimes the express buses can be 15 minutes or more behind schedule, and it affects all of the express buses lines since they all have to run along the same corridors.  This is why I'm skeptical of the idea of all of these people driving and the express buses not being negatively impacted by it. 

I mean even if there's a bus lane... Big deal. Those buses still have to navigate along the same roads as the cars, so they won't be immune to the backups.  

[Dan1]

The park-and-ride 'experiment' seems to assume that every SI household owns at least two vehicles. That of course is not the case. Also, many Staten Islanders won't want to leave a vehicle in a large unsecured parking lot all day.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, Dan1 said:

The park-and-ride 'experiment' seems to assume that every SI household owns at least two vehicles. That of course is not the case. Also, many Staten Islanders won't want to leave a vehicle in a large unsecured parking lot all day.

As I said before though, with the elimination of some express buses, some Staten Islanders will essentially be forced into their car to drive to an express bus and they will park wherever they can.... On side streets, in front of peoples' houses and so on.  There's already enough nonsense that goes on with people parking and going to the express bus. This will just exacerbate the problem. I don't know how none of the SI politicians didn't think about this given how all of their constituents rely on express bus service to get to and from Manhattan.  It's just crazy.  

[Around the Horn]

34 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

As I said before though, with the elimination of some express buses, some Staten Islanders will essentially be forced into their car to drive to an express bus and they will park wherever they can.... On side streets, in front of peoples' houses and so on.  There's already enough nonsense that goes on with people parking and going to the express bus. This will just exacerbate the problem. I don't know how none of the SI politicians didn't think about this given how all of their constituents rely on express bus service to get to and from Manhattan.  It's just crazy.  

I wonder how many people would choose to driver over the Verrazano and then take the X27/37 due to the changes in this plan?

[JAzumah]

Real people use public transportation and it is important that planners not try to engineer the behavior of their customers too much.

Most express bus customers spend more than 12 hours a day going to/from work as well as being at work. There is more to life than working or going to/from work. There is shopping to be done, kids to be picked up from babysitters and after-school centers and the like. These tasks cannot all be done in a timely manner via SI's bus system. So, you park the car at a park & ride and then you complete your errands once you get to your car.

This is how many people live and I am not sure they should be judged for this. These folks will be thrilled by the new park & ride focused services. 

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

1 hour ago, Around the Horn said:

I wonder how many people would choose to driver over the Verrazano and then take the X27/37 due to the changes in this plan?

Thats basically toll+bus fare+gas, definitely not happening. 

[checkmatechamp13]

45 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

The South Shore changes in general, I like.... However, running buses along Hylan blvd (a la the SIM2 & SIM25) & the fact that Woodrow Rd is only covered by one of those aforementioned routes (SIM2) b/w Arden av. & Huguenot rd. I cannot concur with.... Also, I would take that SIM26 (or whichever one is the Bloomingdale route), rescind the continuation of running buses up Bloomingale to the end, and instead have buses go Bloomingdale > Woodrow > Huguenot, en route to Manhattan....

The SIM2 I would run up Huguenot from end to end & the SIM24 I would have going Huguenot > Woodrow > Arden > Arthur Kill instead..... The only thing I like about the SIM 2 really, is the fact that they took buses off Drumgoole Rd (which virtually no one disembarked along)....

The SIM22 should retain the current x21 routing & amt of stops.... Don't think the slight extension to Woods of Arden rd. is worth it....

Pressed for time right now, so I'll continue this later....

Originally, they had the SIM26 running the regular X22 route to Page, and the SIM25 running to Hylan & Woodvale (they call that development "Captain's Quarters") with the SIM2 running straight down Huguenot Avenue and terminating at Hylan Blvd (June 2017 rendition). Then they extended the SIM2/25 to Craig Avenue (October 2017 rendition), and finally, they decided to tweak the SIM2 to have it run up Arden Avenue (March 2018 rendition). Not sure which way to look at it (is it their way of testing the demand for more expansive South Shore-Downtown service, or is it their way to avoid having to create a Downtown variant of the SIM26?)

I don't think there would be much benefit to having the SIM26 supplement the SIM24 on Huguenot Avenue (since the SIM24 has a relatively limited catchment area as-is). I actually like the concept of serving Woodrow Road riders through the cross-streets (Bloomingdale, Rossville, Huguenot, and Arden). The only issue is the large gap between Arden & Arthur Kill (a small portion of which is rectified by offering service on Annadale Road, but still). Local bus-wise, I think there should be some service to at least give them the option of transferring (so they're not literally stranded/car-dependent), but I'm not sure what can be done express bus-wise (The obvious answer is extending a bus from the ETC, but it would literally be for network coverage express bus-wise).

And I agree the Woods of Arden Road stop is a short walk from Arden Avenue (which is on the more direct SIM23 anyway).

4 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

As I said before though, with the elimination of some express buses, some Staten Islanders will essentially be forced into their car to drive to an express bus and they will park wherever they can.... On side streets, in front of peoples' houses and so on.  There's already enough nonsense that goes on with people parking and going to the express bus. This will just exacerbate the problem. I don't know how none of the SI politicians didn't think about this given how all of their constituents rely on express bus service to get to and from Manhattan.  It's just crazy.  

The sad part is the Borough President himself repeatedly said "I support fewer stops and more park-and-rides". So it wasn't as if it's something the MTA just snuck by, but something that the politicians actively pushed them to do. 

21 minutes ago, Dan1 said:

There are currently 55 morning runs on the x2, x3 and x9 which start out at New Dorp (Tysens Lane). Despite what the MTA may believe running all Hylan express buses from the ETC will result in filled-up buses by the time they reach Guyon Avenue. But as you say let's see what the real schedules look like.

New Dorp x2, x3, x9 AM service from 09/2017 MTA timetable (in pdf)

Despite claiming to make it simpler, the system makes it more complicated. Right now there's two basic branches on Staten Island (ETC via Father Capodanno, and New Dorp via Hylan). On the Manhattan end, the main branches are West Midtown, East Midtown, and Downtown (Water Street is sort of a coverage branch, as is Great Kills).

So lets say you restructure it to BPC/Greenwich Village, Midtown, and Downtown. So that's 3 different major routes on the Manhattan end, 2 different routes on the Staten Island end, plus the Water Street route, for a total of 7 routes (3*2+1). This plan has 5 routes right off the bat, and if you count the super-express routes separately, that's 7 routes right there. Add in the short-turns, and this plan is more complicated than the current setup.

5 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

The only time Staten Islanders are not going to drive is when there is a blizzard, hurricane, or nuclear war. A few will still try to drive in the third scenario. 

Let people travel how they want to as long as they bear the cost of doing so. It is not the MTA's business to tell people how to travel. It is their business to service the demand. There is a very good business case for running a steady diet of guaranteed seating Park & Ride buses every 15-30 minutes. The service will be very reliable and they can fill every single seat on those buses.

You run it through the checkpoint to balance loads and take standees (if any) from other routes. This can also work in reverse if someone misses their normal bus. In addition, routes run better when a supervisor has to check the bus in.

The SIM2c would run Downtown & Midtown. The action is not in Downtown outside of rush hours. The Midtown/Downtown buses pick up a lot of passengers from Midtown and the SoHo areas because of social activities.

The MTA is going to operate short turns, but they will no longer receive their own designation. I am not even sure New Dorp might be used as a break point. They may use two or three new break points for utilization purposes.

2

By that logic, let's have the X10/11/12/17/19/31 stop at Fingerboard then. You're forgetting that all the WSE buses already stop in Travis, so if you need a post to station a dispatcher, you can do so there. In any case, with the SIM23/24/25 already running to Midtown, there's already enough service stopping at Arthur Kill Road (and any Downtown-bound riders can transfer in Travis if necessary, though as I mentioned before, I do believe a Bloomingdale/Amboy-Downtown route is warranted). 

I agree that the destinations of a good chunk of passengers on the weekends are in Midtown & SoHo. That doesn't mean I think the buses should necessarily run directly there. Like I said, the reliability issues affect riders throughout Manhattan. I shouldn't be standing at Battery Place for an hour saying "Damn, I should've taken the ferry, even though the bus is scheduled every 20-30 minutes".

Also, resources used to run via Manhattan streets would be better used to provide coverage on Staten Island end, where there's fewer options. From my understanding, the off-peak service on the SIM2 required additional funding. So to run that new route to Midtown would require even more funding. Where are you going to get that funding from? The SIM4c is going to need all the buses it can get, and the SIM3c is going to need at least enough buses for coverage purposes, so you can't just shift buses from one of those routes.

3 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Letting people clog up the roads to drive to park and rides when Staten Island already has a congestion problem is just irresponsible.  No other way to put it.  You're taking people that used to walk to the express bus and putting them in their car.  

Exactly.

39 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah, but people have always drove or got car service to Slosson (myself included).  Schmidts Lane is another big one that people are dropped off at.

Right, but as the saying goes "too much of a good thing is no good". The current system somewhat spreads out the big drop-off points along the SIE. You have Fingerboard, Slosson, and Richmond. Now you're taking the people who currently park/get dropped-off by Richmond and forcing them to drive to Slosson for direct service, which not only adds traffic to the SIE (which does have its share of issues off-peak), but also takes up even more parking in that area.

The current amount of people parking or getting dropped-off at Slosson is acceptable, but I can't see it working out well if you have all those people parking/idling their cars around the Slosson Avenue stops (both at Victory for the SIM3c and at Schmidts/Reon for the SIM4c). 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

16 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Thats basically toll+bus fare+gas, definitely not happening. 

 

1 hour ago, Around the Horn said:

I wonder how many people would choose to driver over the Verrazano and then take the X27/37 due to the changes in this plan?

Oh it definitely has been going on for a while now believe it or not, and I'm sure why it happens.  The X27 and X37 run like water during peak periods and you can get a seat without too much hassle.  I actually do the same thing, but in reverse.  If I'm in Bay Ridge and I miss the last X27 to Manhattan, I go into Staten Island and pick up the X1. 

However, I can't for the life of me fathom where in the hell they park at though, because parking along Shore Rd is horrendous.  When I considered moving along Shore Rd, the first thing the broker told me as we drove to the apartment was that parking is almost impossible there and that was years ago. We somehow lucked out and got a spot without having to drive around too much.  My thinking is that maybe some of them have relatives in Bay Ridge or friends where they can park in their spot or something during the day near Shore Road on the side streets.

1 hour ago, JAzumah said:

Real people use public transportation and it is important that planners not try to engineer the behavior of their customers too much.

Most express bus customers spend more than 12 hours a day going to/from work as well as being at work. There is more to life than working or going to/from work. There is shopping to be done, kids to be picked up from babysitters and after-school centers and the like. These tasks cannot all be done in a timely manner via SI's bus system. So, you park the car at a park & ride and then you complete your errands once you get to your car.

This is how many people live and I am not sure they should be judged for this. These folks will be thrilled by the new park & ride focused services. 

It's also important that planners study all of the impacts of such a service, and added congestion and parking issues is a big one in my book. I'm one of the people that used to be driven to various express buses either by a relative who drove everywhere on Staten Island as well or via car service, so I totally understand how the park & rides can be beneficial, but on the same hand, one of the main issues Staten Island has been dealing with is how poor its infrastructure is in terms of the amount of cars using the roads that weren't designed to handle the volume of traffic it gets as it is. 

Dan and a few others also mentioned something that I've thought about when I wanted a car on Staten Island.  So I want to drive to a particular express bus line, but it doesn't run off-peak, so what do I do?  I need to drive somewhere where I have off-peak service because while I may plan on leaving during peak periods, things happen and I may be stuck in the office longer than expected. It's happened plenty of times, and I'm sure it happens to other people.  

5 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Right, but as the saying goes "too much of a good thing is no good". The current system somewhat spreads out the big drop-off points along the SIE. You have Fingerboard, Slosson, and Richmond. Now you're taking the people who currently park/get dropped-off by Richmond and forcing them to drive to Slosson for direct service, which not only adds traffic to the SIE (which does have its share of issues off-peak), but also takes up even more parking in that area.

The current amount of people parking or getting dropped-off at Slosson is acceptable, but I can't see it working out well if you have all those people parking/idling their cars around the Slosson Avenue stops (both at Victory for the SIM3c and at Schmidts/Reon for the SIM4c). 

I agree.  Previously it was a mix of people being dropped off and parking around Slosson, but now... My God... I think it would be a mess.

As for the politicians on Staten Island, they don't think things through too much. I remember the old borough president. He would constantly yell about how Staten Island needed "more buses", but he was never specific about what exactly that meant in terms of better service if at all.  I mean sure it sounds great to have buses making fewer stops, but fewer stops doesn't automatically mean faster service.  

[checkmatechamp13]

17 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

That may be the case during rush hours (i recall doing one x28 trip when I was on the extra list at UP) but as i stated in my post, i believe there needs to be a concerted effort for the x27/28/37/38 to fully commit to midtown direct or downtown loop/water street direct service full time, not short turning x28's during rush, then sending x28's to midtown via downtown, unless ridership dictates that the service provided is a necessity. People i know who have worked the x27/28 would argue that the off-peak service provided is either necessary or unnecessary.. But ultimately, it's added run pay for them eitherway

The difference between the X27/28 and the SI routes is that the subway is a more viable alternative for those residents than SI residents. So if you cut the buses back to Downtown, Midtown X28 riders will likely make their way to the  train and take it directly home, and if you have the buses bypass Downtown, many X27 riders will simply take the  as opposed to backtracking to Midtown. So they run a combined route so at least there's the comfort/one-seat ride factor (in exchange for the cost/reliability factor)

2 hours ago, JAzumah said:

The only time Staten Islanders are not going to drive is when there is a blizzard, hurricane, or nuclear war. A few will still try to drive in the third scenario. 

Let people travel how they want to as long as they bear the cost of doing so. It is not the MTA's business to tell people how to travel. It is their business to service the demand. There is a very good business case for running a steady diet of guaranteed seating Park & Ride buses every 15-30 minutes. The service will be very reliable and they can fill every single seat on those buses.

 

Right, but there's currently many people walking now that are being put in a position where walking will potentially no longer be a viable option for them (like I said, every park-and-ride bus is one bus that's not running on the main route)

The other thing is, if the average person spends 12 hours commuting to/from work and working, do we really want that many more sleep-deprived people on the road (especially early in the morning when it's dark), even if it's a relatively short distance? They can pick up their car from their house in the afternoon at their leisure (maybe they want to sleep on the bus, take a walk home, relax for a bit, and then go shopping or whatever).

33 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I agree.  Previously it was a mix of people being dropped off and parking around Slosson, but now... My God... I think it would be a mess.

As for the politicians on Staten Island, they don't think things through too much. I remember the old borough president. He would constantly yell about how Staten Island needed "more buses", but he was never specific about what exactly that meant in terms of better service if at all.  I mean sure it sounds great to have buses making fewer stops, but fewer stops doesn't automatically mean faster service.  

1

It's a shame that they don't even know what's best for their constituents and they live out here.

[Q43 Floral Park]

I'm against the notion of an inbound SX making one stop only for no justifiable reason. Granted, I'm not 100% on this but the 2 BxM7 runs from Einstein appear to just be short turn runs with 1 stop and the preceding runs are the SXs. Now, they could easily make the runs Section 1-3 and Section 3-5 because Bellamy is the dead part but that's another convo. I just find it hard to believe that driving to the park & ride for the SX will actually save time, that people will want to do this (unless the service gets so bad they have to) or that they would try this anywhere besides SI. Park & Ride or not, there's no way they'd say lets make the QM7 the SX with only one stop at 188/64 and have all the QM8's make every stop.

I'm not too familiar with SI but I expected more from the South Shore Service updates (the new SIM2 following the current X22 route, South Shore-Midtown off peak etc.). I get Outerbridge added time to the run but now it seems like people won't have SX service to Midtown along Amboy (I guess the SIM26 not serving Rossville is supposed to negate that?) and they still have to drive to Hylan for Downtown Service (it's closer than the current x19).

 

 

[checkmatechamp13]

54 minutes ago, Q43 Floral Park said:

I'm against the notion of an inbound SX making one stop only for no justifiable reason. Granted, I'm not 100% on this but the 2 BxM7 runs from Einstein appear to just be short turn runs with 1 stop and the preceding runs are the SXs. Now, they could easily make the runs Section 1-3 and Section 3-5 because Bellamy is the dead part but that's another convo. I just find it hard to believe that driving to the park & ride for the SX will actually save time, that people will want to do this (unless the service gets so bad they have to) or that they would try this anywhere besides SI. Park & Ride or not, there's no way they'd say lets make the QM7 the SX with only one stop at 188/64 and have all the QM8's make every stop.

I'm not too familiar with SI but I expected more from the South Shore Service updates (the new SIM2 following the current X22 route, South Shore-Midtown off peak etc.). I get Outerbridge added time to the run but now it seems like people won't have SX service to Midtown along Amboy (I guess the SIM26 not serving Rossville is supposed to negate that?) and they still have to drive to Hylan for Downtown Service (it's closer than the current x19).

2

Yeah, I could see how the SIM26 would offer similar travel times as the current X22A. The thing is that in order to access the West Shore Expressway at that point, you need to go east on the KWVMP and then head back west. Considering it's 4 more stops on Bloomingdale (and then you bypass the Arthur Kill Road stop, which probably has a high dwell time due to passenger volume), it's probably a wash, and then you also allow riders at the northern end of Bloomingdale to have some direct service as well (and of course, it's at a higher frequency than the super-express service).

As for Downtown service, there's two things I've heard at these meetings: The first being that, at least initially, they want to maintain access to the same general Manhattan destinations that the neighborhoods currently have access to, despite the fact that there may very well be latent demand for Bloomingdale Road-Downtown service (in my opinion, there definitely is). Goes to show you that they're still overly cautious.

The other reason (which I found rather ridiculous, and thankfully, the primary planner involved had the opposing opinion) was one of the planners believed that for South Shore-Downtown service, the SIR is sufficient anyway. Assuming somebody lives in the immediate vicinity of the Huguenot SIR station, the express SIR (which has a much shorter span than the X19, especially in the morning) to the ferry offers a similar (but still slightly slower) travel time to the X19. Once the express SIR stops running (and the SIR schedule is more loosely coordinated with the ferry), the X19 wins hands-down. And of course, if you live down by Hylan or up by Arthur Kill Road, it's a wash again. 

The thing that I don't get (or rather, that representative doesn't get) is that even though the West Shore Expressway is closer to the Goethals Bridge, with the HOV lane, you can get from Victory Blvd to the Verrazano in 10 minutes or less (and overall, I trust the BBT over the Lincoln), so by that logic, the "Midtown via NJ" riders should take the SIR as well.

[JeremiahC99]

17 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

There's no way the Q52SBS should run out of JFK if Far Rock is 2 block east of Arverne...

The Q52 used to operate out of Far Rockaway. Whenever they made the Q52 and Q53 routes into SBS routes, they decided to convert them into articulated bus routes, using 40 articulated new scheme XD60 buses (which were diverted from their planned delivery assignments in Manhattan and Brooklyn). 15 buses are assigned to the Q52 SBS (the other 25 are a time LaGuardia for the Q53 SBS), and since JFK Depot, which like Far Rockaway Depot was a Green Bus Lines Depot, has 30 new scheme XD60’s for the Q10, they decided to move the Q52 SBS there so that maintenance needs are simplified.

Regarding Far Rockaway Depot, it also feels like that no local bus routes operate out of that depot. Usually, there are 52 Orion VII OG hybrid for the Q11, Q21, Q22, Q35, and Q41 (a JFK depot transfer), and out of the 52, ZERO are assigned to Far Rockaway depot. All 52 buses are assigned to the JFK Depot. Those 52 buses are on rotation with the JFK Depot Roster, sine I see Q35 buses with the JFK Depot sticker almost EVERYDAY.

In essence, the Q52 SBS, as well as any other former Green Lines bus route, is based out of JFK AND Far Rockaway Depot (the two depots should be considered a single facility).

[JAzumah]

8 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The thing is that in order to access the West Shore Expressway at that point, you need to go east on the KWVMP and then head back west. Considering it's 4 more stops on Bloomingdale (and then you bypass the Arthur Kill Road stop, which probably has a high dwell time due to passenger volume), it's probably a wash, and then you also allow riders at the northern end of Bloomingdale to have some direct service as well (and of course, it's at a higher frequency than the super-express service).

I expect the X22A to continue as normal.

[cartmn1210]

On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 7:56 AM, Vtrain said:

So will the X23/24 routes finally be operated by NYC Transit instead of Academy.

As of Right now no. The MTA is in the process of acquiring the proper amount of buses to do so. Right now Academy is not under contract. They are working month to month in hopes of procuring a new deal. but if they refuse the new routes , the city has the power to pull the routes  from them.

[GojiMet86]

5 minutes ago, cartmn1210 said:

As of Right now no. The MTA is in the process of acquiring the proper amount of buses to do so. Right now Academy is not under contract. They are working month to month in hopes of procuring a new deal. but if they refuse the new routes , the city has the power to pull the routes  from them.

 

Are these acquisitions coming from future express bus contracts, from the MTA's own exisiting pool, or are they supposed to be second-hand/leased?

[Q43 Floral Park]

22 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Yeah, I could see how the SIM26 would offer similar travel times as the current X22A. The thing is that in order to access the West Shore Expressway at that point, you need to go east on the KWVMP and then head back west.

The other reason (which I found rather ridiculous, and thankfully, the primary planner involved had the opposing opinion) was one of the planners believed that for South Shore-Downtown service, the SIR is sufficient anyway.

I get the SIM26 having roughly the same time without backtracking but I'm still a bit confused. The notion of having all these new Park & Ride SX buses implies that the service pattern (which is only on the X22a) is currently working yet they didn't include it in the new plan. Are people driving to Outerbridge as is?

I looked over the May 2017 study and I expected more information. I get that people will get on whatever comes first when 9 buses have the same stop but some of these routes have standalone portions, run solo or in the opposite direction of other routes on the same street. Seeing the other stops with the high ridership would help. They also didn't mention 2-seat rides, can you transfer from the South Shore buses to the X11/19 at Victory the same way you can on Bronx and Queens expresses?

When I first looked at the SIR schedule, I thought that's what they would expect someone south of the X19 to do. Then common sense kicked in and I realized that means leaving early, driving to a station that has a parking lot/easy street parking (or worse waiting for the S55/56/78), taking the SIR express, the ferry and then you still might have to take the train to work... It also left me wondering if that's the logic why is the X15 is a Downtown route?

 

 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

14 hours ago, Q43 Floral Park said:

I get the SIM26 having roughly the same time without backtracking but I'm still a bit confused. The notion of having all these new Park & Ride SX buses implies that the service pattern (which is only on the X22a) is currently working yet they didn't include it in the new plan. Are people driving to Outerbridge as is?

I looked over the May 2017 study and I expected more information. I get that people will get on whatever comes first when 9 buses have the same stop but some of these routes have standalone portions, run solo or in the opposite direction of other routes on the same street. Seeing the other stops with the high ridership would help. They also didn't mention 2-seat rides, can you transfer from the South Shore buses to the X11/19 at Victory the same way you can on Bronx and Queens expresses?

When I first looked at the SIR schedule, I thought that's what they would expect someone south of the X19 to do. Then common sense kicked in and I realized that means leaving early, driving to a station that has a parking lot/easy street parking (or worse waiting for the S55/56/78), taking the SIR express, the ferry and then you still might have to take the train to work... It also left me wondering if that's the logic why is the X15 is a Downtown route?

 

 

 

There are already some official transfer stops on Staten Island to transfer between express buses, but there are plenty of unofficial ones made by the riders.  I hated having to transfer and only did so when my regular bus was a no-show or there was some other problem preventing me from taking my regular lines.