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Elmhurst

Little Neck local proposes plan to improve bus service in Northeastern Queens

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Nice that he focuses on the LIRR, but Little Neck needs more express bus service too.  The QM3 runs like crap and the QM5 has been cut back over the years.

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The QM3 is a joke. That area has great potential for ridership. Never understood why the QM3 had such a bad schedule 

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The QM3 under QSC many years ago operated all day, similar to the (former)QM1, QM2, QM2A, and QM4. When did service get reduced, and up to three trips is beyond me (although it was before MTA Takeover). However, I feel like the LIRR has something to do with that.

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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1 hour ago, Q43LTD said:

Still a joke. And stops are uneven 

Little Neck has been asking for better express bus service for years. The problem is I can't think of one community in Queens that keeps the pressure up on the (MTA) to improve express bus service. It's a catch 22. The (MTA) would really prefer those folks in Northeast Queens to use the LIRR, this way they don't have to run so much express bus service, as those trips can be long (and I'm guessing expensive in some cases). Even Jackson Heights has asked for more stops, which the (MTA) has refused to add. Basically the QM3 sees usage when the LIRR is messed up. If it ran more, more people would use it. I'm sure plenty of people drive to the QM5 which is long and makes too many stops. I would have some QM3 Super Express buses and have the QM5s serving Little Neck be perhaps another branch during the rush also making fewer stops.

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This has been proposed before.... Only difference is this kid came up with a cute name for it ("Little Neck LiNk).....

News to me that the Q31 was timed to connect w/ trains @ LIRR Bayside; never thought anything of it..... But as far as the issue at hand is concerned, I was never fond of running Q36's up LNP to LIRR LNP - but I don't support extending Q46's up there either... The demand for Q46 service west of Springfield is clearly for LIJ  & if we start running (the current) short turns to the LIRR station up there, well, that defeats the purpose of those trips....

Those folks need their own bus... I still say the Q79 shouldn't have been eliminated - regardless of the fact that it didn't connect to a subway station or whatever.... How many times have folks on here alone referenced the PW line as being akin to a subway anyway! 

IDK man, the only other option I would suggest is running the Q30 to the LIRR station, since that route serves the same general riderbase (east of QCC, en route to LNP/HHE)...

As for the QM3, yes, I concur with the consensus here - the MTA continues to be frugal with that route & I strongly believe that the demand is there for more service...

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19 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Little Neck has been asking for better express bus service for years. The problem is I can't think of one community in Queens that keeps the pressure up on the (MTA) to improve express bus service. It's a catch 22. The (MTA) would really prefer those folks in Northeast Queens to use the LIRR, this way they don't have to run so much express bus service, as those trips can be long (and I'm guessing expensive in some cases). Even Jackson Heights has asked for more stops, which the (MTA) has refused to add. Basically the QM3 sees usage when the LIRR is messed up. If it ran more, more people would use it. I'm sure plenty of people drive to the QM5 which is long and makes too many stops. I would have some QM3 Super Express buses and have the QM5s serving Little Neck be perhaps another branch during the rush also making fewer stops.

IMO, The only chance the QM3 ever had at getting better was a combo with the X51 which had more runs and hit the HHE.

The PM runs crawl along Northern through Flushing (it takes over an hour to get that far), has a longer run time than the QM5 to reach Little Neck Plaza and will take up to 40-50 minutes longer than a Great Neck local/express run. Add more Jackson Heights stops, kiss the AM via Van Wyck/HHE goodbye. An SX QM3 will require a short turn QM3 and we can't even get a regular 4th run. The QM5 serves LN well, you'd do better leaving the route as is and adding AM SX runs and PM runs first drop off Fresh Meadows.

 

12 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

but I don't support extending Q46's up there either... The demand for Q46 service west of Springfield is clearly for LIJ  & if we start running (the current) short turns to the LIRR station up there, well, that defeats the purpose of those trips....

Those folks need their own bus... I still say the Q79 shouldn't have been eliminated - regardless of the fact that it didn't connect to a subway station or whatever.... How many times have folks on here alone referenced the PW line as being akin to a subway anyway!

I always looked at the Glen Oaks service as a branch (it has 2 stops less than the LIJ bus and there are the Springfield locals).  The demand is that walking to Union (LIJ Q46) or HHE (Q30) from the Little Neck/Glen Oaks border area can take 10-20 minutes depending on the block and hills. That's why it used to loop around the GCP to Commonwealth, ran later and had weekend service . Sending the Q46 to LN Station is probably the most reliable one seat ride to the subway that area could ask for. They said they were looking into LTDs with a non-stop portion, so local LN to Springfield, LTD to 188, next stop Kew Gardens.

The Q79 was nice in that it was always quiet and came early. Once the extension down Tulip was off the table, it was on borrowed time because they were never going to bump up the headways. In general, I've seen more people waiting on LN and not just at main stops for the Q36.

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How are the QM3 runs passenger wise?  I've heard it has the lowest ridership of all the buses, but,  obviously any bus that has 6 total daily runs is probably going to have the lowest number of riders.  Are the buses packed during those runs?  Are there days when there is standing room only?It's one thing to add more buses if the demand is there, but I don't know how well it would fare to add more buses in hopes that more people will use the bus instead of the LIRR. 

The biggest problem with the QM3 to me is that it's so close to the LIRR.  Other than to save some money (and NE Queens is mostly doing better than other areas of Queens so they have some extra money to splurge on commuting), why would you take a bus that's going to take an hour to an hour and half to get you to Herald Square and back (and those PM runs at the height of rush hour are probably closer to 2 hours end to end) when you can just take a 35 minute train ride to Penn Station.  

The only thing the QM3 has over the LIRR is that it could potentially have better east side connections since you can access it from the Lex Lines, but there's no 3rd avenue service (though there may be even less demand for that than just the 6th avenue runs), and the PM runs leave from 6th avenue so people have to hoof it over to 59th and Lex.

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I always thought that maybe the Q43 should have been the one to go up Little Neck Parkway because for whoever wanted the subway can get to the (F) faster than the Q36. I thought the Q36 was a bad choice only because they made it a direct replacement and it runs the entire Q79’s old route while taking an indirect routing to Jamaica.  

But even if the Q43 wasn’t an option maybe an extension of the Q46 would be ideal because to get to the Little Neck LIRR station from Union Turnpike doesn’t take that long. Now as far as the southern part below Union Turnpike goes, I suppose the Q36 could still serve that but only go to Glen Oaks 260th where the Q46 currently terminates at. I don’t think the Q36 has any business running the entire length of Little Neck Parkway and then running on both Jamaica and Hillside Aves. That’s why I felt the Q43 more direct routing was a better choice even though I don’t think there is much demand for Jamaica service on Little Neck Parkway.

I personally feel like the routings for many Queens routes are outdated and should be changed up but that’s for another thread. When Oakland Gardens residents were fighting for the Q75 to return I could see the route doing much better going to Flushing than Jamaica but of course it would duplicate the Q17/Q88 and even take a few riders off the Q27. Of course an easy and straight forward solution would be to extend the Q26 down HHE then south on Bell blvd, a right on 73rd Ave and run the old Q75 route to 230th.

The QM3 is long overdue for more service as it’s roughly remained the same since it was taken over by the MTA. I don’t know how much usage the QM5/QM8 and the 3rd Ave variant  get on Little Neck but I feel that the QM3 can somewhat have more trips and decent headway’s even if it’s still peak direction only route. I would have it run between 6am and 8:30 am on possibly 15 minute headway’s and 3-7pm on 15 minute headway’s. 

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17 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I always thought that maybe the Q43 should have been the one to go up Little Neck Parkway because for whoever wanted the subway can get to the (F) faster than the Q36. I thought the Q36 was a bad choice only because they made it a direct replacement and it runs the entire Q79’s old route while taking an indirect routing to Jamaica.  

But even if the Q43 wasn’t an option maybe an extension of the Q46 would be ideal because to get to the Little Neck LIRR station from Union Turnpike doesn’t take that long. Now as far as the southern part below Union Turnpike goes, I suppose the Q36 could still serve that but only go to Glen Oaks 260th where the Q46 currently terminates at. I don’t think the Q36 has any business running the entire length of Little Neck Parkway and then running on both Jamaica and Hillside Aves. That’s why I felt the Q43 more direct routing was a better choice even though I don’t think there is much demand for Jamaica service on Little Neck Parkway.

I personally feel like the routings for many Queens routes are outdated and should be changed up but that’s for another thread. When Oakland Gardens residents were fighting for the Q75 to return I could see the route doing much better going to Flushing than Jamaica but of course it would duplicate the Q17/Q88 and even take a few riders off the Q27. Of course an easy and straight forward solution would be to extend the Q26 down HHE then south on Bell blvd, a right on 73rd Ave and run the old Q75 route to 230th.

The QM3 is long overdue for more service as it’s roughly remained the same since it was taken over by the MTA. I don’t know how much usage the QM5/QM8 and the 3rd Ave variant  get on Little Neck but I feel that the QM3 can somewhat have more trips and decent headway’s even if it’s still peak direction only route. I would have it run between 6am and 8:30 am on possibly 15 minute headway’s and 3-7pm on 15 minute headway’s. 

That's a lot better and possibly cheaper than sending the Q64 to Oakland Gardens. That area was just not seeking Jamaica access

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17 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I always thought that maybe the Q43 should have been the one to go up Little Neck Parkway because for whoever wanted the subway can get to the (F) faster than the Q36. I thought the Q36 was a bad choice only because they made it a direct replacement and it runs the entire Q79’s old route while taking an indirect routing to Jamaica.  

But even if the Q43 wasn’t an option maybe an extension of the Q46 would be ideal because to get to the Little Neck LIRR station from Union Turnpike doesn’t take that long. Now as far as the southern part below Union Turnpike goes, I suppose the Q36 could still serve that but only go to Glen Oaks 260th where the Q46 currently terminates at. I don’t think the Q36 has any business running the entire length of Little Neck Parkway and then running on both Jamaica and Hillside Aves. That’s why I felt the Q43 more direct routing was a better choice even though I don’t think there is much demand for Jamaica service on Little Neck Parkway.

I personally feel like the routings for many Queens routes are outdated and should be changed up but that’s for another thread. When Oakland Gardens residents were fighting for the Q75 to return I could see the route doing much better going to Flushing than Jamaica but of course it would duplicate the Q17/Q88 and even take a few riders off the Q27. Of course an easy and straight forward solution would be to extend the Q26 down HHE then south on Bell blvd, a right on 73rd Ave and run the old Q75 route to 230th.

The QM3 is long overdue for more service as it’s roughly remained the same since it was taken over by the MTA. I don’t know how much usage the QM5/QM8 and the 3rd Ave variant  get on Little Neck but I feel that the QM3 can somewhat have more trips and decent headway’s even if it’s still peak direction only route. I would have it run between 6am and 8:30 am on possibly 15 minute headway’s and 3-7pm on 15 minute headway’s. 

I think it would be easier extend those Q17 short turns ending at 188/HHE over to Oakland Gardens via 73rd Avenue to 230th. I can't really see the Q26 ever being extended, the MTA would rather short turn the 27 at Oakland Gardens from Flushing during the midday if they could to increase reliability on that route. Doing that will slowly reduce the span of the lines I see forming at Main and Roosevelt for the Q17/27.

 

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On 3/13/2018 at 2:05 AM, NewFlyer 230 said:

I personally feel like the routings for many Queens routes are outdated and should be changed up but that’s for another thread. When Oakland Gardens residents were fighting for the Q75 to return I could see the route doing much better going to Flushing than Jamaica but of course it would duplicate the Q17/Q88 and even take a few riders off the Q27. Of course an easy and straight forward solution would be to extend the Q26 down HHE then south on Bell blvd, a right on 73rd Ave and run the old Q75 route to 230th.

 

It might be more direct to use Francis Lewis instead of Bell to 73rd Avenue. An alternate idea (to avoid arrival/dismissal congestion at St. Francis Prep) would be to use Hollis Court to 58th Avenue, then right 58th Avenue, left 188th Street, left 73rd Avenue, and then follow the old Q75 path.

 

Of course, my preference is still to (1) have the Q27 end at 230th Street & 69th Avenue and (2) let a new route take over the "Springfield Crosstown" function.

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On 3/10/2018 at 11:36 AM, ViaWaterViaChurch said:

How are the QM3 runs passenger wise?  I've heard it has the lowest ridership of all the buses, but,  obviously any bus that has 6 total daily runs is probably going to have the lowest number of riders.  Are the buses packed during those runs?  Are there days when there is standing room only?It's one thing to add more buses if the demand is there, but I don't know how well it would fare to add more buses in hopes that more people will use the bus instead of the LIRR. 

The biggest problem with the QM3 to me is that it's so close to the LIRR.  Other than to save some money (and NE Queens is mostly doing better than other areas of Queens so they have some extra money to splurge on commuting), why would you take a bus that's going to take an hour to an hour and half to get you to Herald Square and back (and those PM runs at the height of rush hour are probably closer to 2 hours end to end) when you can just take a 35 minute train ride to Penn Station.  

The only thing the QM3 has over the LIRR is that it could potentially have better east side connections since you can access it from the Lex Lines, but there's no 3rd avenue service (though there may be even less demand for that than just the 6th avenue runs), and the PM runs leave from 6th avenue so people have to hoof it over to 59th and Lex.

Every time I rode the QM3 it had a decent load,

However, to contest with what most people were saying, the QM3's operating hours should only reflect LIRR peak trains. But overall the corridor would benefit more from a downtown bus than a QM3 increase as neither the LIRR or QM3 serves downtown.

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15 hours ago, IAlam said:

Every time I rode the QM3 it had a decent load,

Every time I took an inbound bus (AM), yes, buses were pretty packed....

Outbound trips (PM) though, not so much.... Lucky if you get 10 ppl. on board.

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49 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Every time I took an inbound bus (AM), yes, buses were pretty packed....

Outbound trips (PM) though, not so much.... Lucky if you get 10 ppl. on board.

Interesting I usually get about between 20-30 people on my outbound runs usually take the 5pm. It might depend on which run you take. 

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On 3/9/2018 at 7:20 AM, B35 via Church said:

This has been proposed before.... Only difference is this kid came up with a cute name for it ("Little Neck LiNk).....

News to me that the Q31 was timed to connect w/ trains @ LIRR Bayside; never thought anything of it..... But as far as the issue at hand is concerned, I was never fond of running Q36's up LNP to LIRR LNP - but I don't support extending Q46's up there either... The demand for Q46 service west of Springfield is clearly for LIJ  & if we start running (the current) short turns to the LIRR station up there, well, that defeats the purpose of those trips....

Those folks need their own bus... I still say the Q79 shouldn't have been eliminated - regardless of the fact that it didn't connect to a subway station or whatever.... How many times have folks on here alone referenced the PW line as being akin to a subway anyway! 

IDK man, the only other option I would suggest is running the Q30 to the LIRR station, since that route serves the same general riderbase (east of QCC, en route to LNP/HHE)...

As for the QM3, yes, I concur with the consensus here - the MTA continues to be frugal with that route & I strongly believe that the demand is there for more service...

Honestly, the Q79 needs to be restored. Those Q36 trips are pretty hell to me. No need to extend from Floral Park to Little neck to provide coverage. What needed to be done honestly was to extend the Q79 down Jamaica Avenue possibly into Queens Village or even Parsons and Archer for connection for the (E)(J)(Z)  (MTA) Long Isl Railroad. If the marketing of the service can be done in a way that residents of Little Neck and surrounding areas will accept.

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3 hours ago, IAlam said:

Interesting I usually get about between 20-30 people on my outbound runs usually take the 5pm. It might depend on which run you take. 

On various/random occasions in the past, I took all three trips.... Never had that many people on board any LNP/HHE bound bus I've taken; not even close... I have been on QM3's where I was the only passenger on board, but that was around the time the x51 was still around (whose usage wasn't great in its own right either.... Still miss those Vikings btw).... Even after that route went defunct, QM3 usage (outbound) didn't go up by much.... What it sounds like to me, is that people are fed up w/ taking the (7) to one of the Flushing feeders & are hopping on QM3's more w/ regularity, if you're conveying that you usually get that many pax/trip now.....

Either way, there is a need for more service on the route; LIRR nearby or not.

 

2 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Honestly, the Q79 needs to be restored. Those Q36 trips are pretty hell to me. No need to extend from Floral Park to Little neck to provide coverage. What needed to be done honestly was to extend the Q79 down Jamaica Avenue possibly into Queens Village or even Parsons and Archer for connection for the (E)(J)(Z)  (MTA) Long Isl Railroad. If the marketing of the service can be done in a way that residents of Little Neck and surrounding areas will accept.

Makes no sense.... Whenever I'm at a red light at Hillside/LNP, I actually look out for those Q36's (either direction) to see just how empty they are.... What I find is that the Jamaica bound trips literally carry more air than the Little Neck bound trips (which isn't saying much, because there's certainly no hoards of people on NB buses either).....

Remember the Q9a/Q89? Yeah, these Q36 trips that run past 257th are worse.... Immense waste of mileage.... Worse than that, I notice more people taking n24's over Q36's at a certain point (intra-Queens usage), especially in the morning.... Now if n22's were open door up to a certain point along Hillside av in Queens like the n24 is, I'd imagine a similar dynamic would be going on w/ the Q43.... Not as drastic/noticeable, but still apparent.... Q36's though heading back east during the PM rush are fizzling out more & more past Springfield nowadays & I'm inclined to believe those Little Neck trips have a little something to do with it....

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2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Makes no sense.... Whenever I'm at a red light at Hillside/LNP, I actually look out for those Q36's (either direction) to see just how empty they are.... What I find is that the Jamaica bound trips literally carry more air than the Little Neck bound trips (which isn't saying much, because there's certainly no hoards of people on NB buses either).....

Remember the Q9a/Q89? Yeah, these Q36 trips that run past 257th are worse.... Immense waste of mileage.... Worse than that, I notice more people taking n24's over Q36's at a certain point (intra-Queens usage), especially in the morning.... Now if n22's were open door up to a certain point along Hillside av in Queens like the n24 is, I'd imagine a similar dynamic would be going on w/ the Q43.... Not as drastic/noticeable, but still apparent.... Q36's though heading back east during the PM rush are fizzling out more & more past Springfield nowadays & I'm inclined to believe those Little Neck trips have a little something to do with it....

Damm. It's really that bad in Northeast Queens. I guess not worse than Southeast Queens.

Thanks for the low down on those Q36 trips. Would I like to see the Q79 restored? Yes.

However, its gotta have better headways and if some of these Northeast Queens residents want to have some better form of bus service restored. They need to take a page from Brooklyn's Community Board 6.

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I have been working on a map to streamline bus service in Queens. It's not done, and it doesn't include express buses, though this is something I want to add later. The main area of focus as of now has been eastern Queens, but I will get around to the rest of the borough eventually.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1qQxuRWE4pwdHN2_9Wi1omrUvchaLUYGH&ll=40.72234769801105%2C-73.82998645000004&z=12

(is there a way to embed this?)

Edited by officiallyliam

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The Q79 extension to Floral Park LIRR was originally proposed by NYCT in the late 1980's, claiming that the extension would, at least, pay for itself.

Unfortunately, Floral Park has no bus service.  Not even from their own county!

They are racists, and should be ran out of town!!!

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20 hours ago, officiallyliam said:

I have been working on a map to streamline bus service in Queens. It's not done, and it doesn't include express buses, though this is something I want to add later. The main area of focus as of now has been eastern Queens, but I will get around to the rest of the borough eventually.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1qQxuRWE4pwdHN2_9Wi1omrUvchaLUYGH&ll=40.72234769801105%2C-73.82998645000004&z=12

(is there a way to embed this?)

 

Your Q14 ("Springfield Crosstown") closely matches an idea that I have had for years, except that the north terminal is at Bayside LIRR (where there is no good turnaround path) and the south terminal is shared with the Q77, which might over-serve that lower part of Springfield. I would reroute it at the south end to Rochdale Village and extend it at the north to Bay Terrace, in order to link a major population center with two major regional activity centers.

 

Your Q27 ends at QCC, even though the gate to the off-street bus turnaround is not always open. Maybe run it to 230th Street & 69th Avenue (where the old Q75 ended).

 

Your Q31 ("Utopia Crosstown") uses Station Road and 192nd Street, both of which are too narrow for buses to navigate reliably. If you want the route to serve the Auburndale LIRR station, it can do so with a walk to/from Utopia or to/from Crocheron & 192nd Street. (Is the section north of 26th Avenue meant to replace the Q16 Utopia branch?)  

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