I love NY Posted March 10, 2018 Share #1 Posted March 10, 2018 https://nypost.com/2018/03/09/the-mta-thinks-robots-could-save-us-from-the-mta/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=facebook_app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted March 10, 2018 Share #2 Posted March 10, 2018 Six years for the MTA to approve the tech and hire eight consultants to say it’s OK not to use vacuum tubes in signals, sure. I’m not too sure about building it. (Unless Prince Andrew summons the god of speed with his scepter, of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted March 10, 2018 Share #3 Posted March 10, 2018 40 minutes ago, RR503 said: Six years for the MTA to approve the tech and hire eight consultants to say it’s OK not to use vacuum tubes in signals, sure. I’m not too sure about building it. (Unless Prince Andrew summons the god of speed with his scepter, of course) This entire genius challenge was more like a delusional idiot challenge. Did you see the garbage third place idea with skip-stopping cars of trains? Ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosciusko Posted March 10, 2018 Share #4 Posted March 10, 2018 3 hours ago, bobtehpanda said: Did you see the garbage third place idea with skip-stopping cars of trains? Ridiculous Yeah I got a laugh out of that one. Can't believe that someone won money for that. But is wideband signalling really that far-fetched of an idea? It's cheaper than CBTC, but I'm not sure how much better it is. A hybrid CBTC/UWB signal system doesn't seem like a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted March 10, 2018 Share #5 Posted March 10, 2018 3 hours ago, kosciusko said: Yeah I got a laugh out of that one. Can't believe that someone won money for that. But is wideband signalling really that far-fetched of an idea? It's cheaper than CBTC, but I'm not sure how much better it is. A hybrid CBTC/UWB signal system doesn't seem like a bad idea. In general, going it alone on a technology solution is a terrible idea. If there were a cheaper, just as reliable way of doing CBTC, some company would've won a contract worth hundreds of millions of dollars for it. And I have high doubts that the system is as accurate or as reliable as the claim; there's a common engineering proverb where 80% of use cases take 20% of the time, and the remaining 20% of edge cases take 80% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted March 10, 2018 Share #6 Posted March 10, 2018 8 hours ago, bobtehpanda said: This entire genius challenge was more like a delusional idiot challenge. Did you see the garbage third place idea with skip-stopping cars of trains? Ridiculous. Yeah. I was wondering if he pledged his winnings to Cuomo or something... That said, I would get such a laugh out of watching tourists figure the system out. “Does this train go to Times Square?” ”Only the middle six cars. Also, because of a service change....” (head explodes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brillant93 Posted March 10, 2018 Share #7 Posted March 10, 2018 I’ve been on this forum for a few months and seriously it’s laughable they way how some people criticize the ones who try to make a difference to help our transit system. Some people are calling these ideas stupid but yet are they proposing anything? Our system is old as ever and it needs to be upgraded ASAP. We cant afford 40 to 50 years to upgrade our subways, that’s is way too long. It’s no longer about catching up but it’s about being a head of other transit systems. If ultrawide band can shed decades of upgrading signals, different types of trains for capacity, and so on why not try it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHacksJustKhaks Posted March 10, 2018 Share #8 Posted March 10, 2018 25 minutes ago, Brillant93 said: I’ve been on this forum for a few months and seriously it’s laughable they way how some people criticize the ones who try to make a difference to help our transit system. Some people are calling these ideas stupid but yet are they proposing anything? Our system is old as ever and it needs to be upgraded ASAP. We cant afford 40 to 50 years to upgrade our subways, that’s is way too long. It’s no longer about catching up but it’s about being a head of other transit systems. If ultrawide band can shed decades of upgrading signals, different types of trains for capacity, and so on why not try it? So were not allowed to have opinions? If we don't analyze these proposals, who knows if we'll have a better system or not? Not to mention, not all of us are engineers or people who participated in this plan, so all we can do is analyze how their plans go and affect our system that most of us ride frequently. These ideas are just ideas and who knows if they'll make our system any better, or will take forever, work little and just put the agency in more debt. Also, why do we need to be ahead of other transit systems? Don't we need to get out of the hole the MTA just keeps digging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brillant93 Posted March 10, 2018 Share #9 Posted March 10, 2018 33 minutes ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said: So were not allowed to have opinions? If we don't analyze these proposals, who knows if we'll have a better system or not? Not to mention, not all of us are engineers or people who participated in this plan, so all we can do is analyze how their plans go and affect our system that most of us ride frequently. These ideas are just ideas and who knows if they'll make our system any better, or will take forever, work little and just put the agency in more debt. Also, why do we need to be ahead of other transit systems? Don't we need to get out of the hole the MTA just keeps digging? Opinions are one thing but just pure complaining and beating down those who try to help isn’t doing much to prove a point. I’ve seen it on the bus forum and now I’m seeing it here. We need all the help we can get to fix our system. Yes we need to be a head because catching up is going to take decades. That’s a hole being dug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewYorkElevated Posted March 10, 2018 Share #10 Posted March 10, 2018 The new radio system I am for it, but the longer train cars, I don't think that'll work. :/ I wonder how the transit unions respond to the idea of robots participating in system maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosciusko Posted March 10, 2018 Share #11 Posted March 10, 2018 3 hours ago, TheNewYorkElevated said: I wonder how the transit unions respond to the idea of robots participating in system maintenance. Extremely poorly probably. If we can actually have robots doing the work that would be fantastic. But the unions would probably require that for every robot there are two people """""""""supervising""""""""""""" it to make sure they don't lose their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted March 10, 2018 Share #12 Posted March 10, 2018 The Ultra wideband I'm up for. The subway car, station platform Idea I didn't agree with because if you need to be in a certain car to get off a certain platform and it just causes too much confusion. There was another idea that there was to be cameras and subway-TSS communication plans. Those were pretty decent That's all I remember for now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted March 10, 2018 Share #13 Posted March 10, 2018 11 hours ago, kosciusko said: Yeah I got a laugh out of that one. Can't believe that someone won money for that. But is wideband signalling really that far-fetched of an idea? It's cheaper than CBTC, but I'm not sure how much better it is. A hybrid CBTC/UWB signal system doesn't seem like a bad idea. We entered the 1st round of the challenge as well we spec'd a MIMO based system as well. I guess someone had a better system design. We didn't make the second cut. The issue with standard CBTC RF systems is that it also occupies the 2.4 GHz spectrum. So you fully have to be cognizant other systems that use that bandwith.. CTBC, Bluetooth, Two way coms and there Respective channels. 5G offers great possibilities but the standard it also covers a Low band and offers Spectrum up to 6GHZ we built a stack based on beamforming and MM waves but the thing is It isn't fully ratified as of yet probably were we lost. UWB is Isn't as robust or future Proofed but I can understand why the MTA is considering it it's already proven in many applications. Hospitals are one. PANs are another wireless printers ect . I believe UWB Operates at a spectrum above 3Ghz to maybe 15 ? So it's clear of 2.4 Ghz. You'd also have to place antennas a lot closer lower bands don't travel as far but have better penetration and the could give a higher level of accuracy. Steel trains might block some signal as well something you'd have to keep in mind. As well as how you're going to power your Equipment and how much space it would take in the tunnel itself. Then Rollout testing and Maintenance all have to be planned out. So I understand the selection of UWB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted March 10, 2018 Share #14 Posted March 10, 2018 This entire genius challenge was more like a delusional idiot challenge. Did you see the garbage third place idea with skip-stopping cars of trains? Ridiculous. Why didn't you enter the challenge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted March 10, 2018 Share #15 Posted March 10, 2018 I entered the challenge but lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted March 10, 2018 Share #16 Posted March 10, 2018 23 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said: I entered the challenge but lost At least you entered have to into to win it. Had a lot of bigwigs in the running. Just saw the videos on the MTA channel I see where the overall convo from the thread was based on. The concepts aren't too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted March 10, 2018 Share #17 Posted March 10, 2018 38 minutes ago, RailRunRob said: Why didn't you enter the challenge? Because I work full-time and I make way more money doing that than busting my ass off for a farcical mix of "Shark Tank" and a box top sweepstakes? If it would really take only a million dollars to solve these problems someone would be selling that solution for $10M and making way more margin on it, and it would still be a cheaper solution than literally everything else out there. This whole thing smelled like snake oil from the get go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted March 10, 2018 Share #18 Posted March 10, 2018 13 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said: Because I work full-time and I make way more money doing that than busting my ass off for a farcical mix of "Shark Tank" and a box top sweepstakes? If it would really take only a million dollars to solve these problems someone would be selling that solution for $10M and making way more margin on it, and it would still be a cheaper solution than literally everything else out there. This whole thing smelled like snake oil from the get go. 🤷♂️I hear you. I guess that's why the world will never change. You have people that do know complaining about the people that they feel don't have a clue. Kinda reminds me of people that don't vote and complain about the outcome. I guess I don't understand the point of complaining without action or movement. Just doesn't register. But to each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted March 10, 2018 Share #19 Posted March 10, 2018 25 minutes ago, RailRunRob said: 🤷♂️I hear you. I guess that's why the world will never change. You have people that do know complaining about the people that they feel don't have a clue. Kinda reminds me of people that don't vote and complain about the outcome. I guess I don't understand the point of complaining without action or movement. Just doesn't register. But to each his own. Oh please. You act like any of this Genius Challenge is actually going to get done. This entire thing was a dog and pony show for the press so that the world could know that Cuomo was "on it", and even the one kind of decent, feasible idea involving robots is going to get caught up for years in stuff like red tape and union fights. We have literally had dozens of audits, investigations, task forces look into why the MTA is not doing poorly, and the collective response has been "use the money and workers you have more efficiently and spend some more on the engine of the economy." Are you surprised that no one who wasn't a hobbyist bothered participating in the latest one after Albany and the MTA stuck their collective fingers in their ear and stuck out their tongue at all the previous advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted March 10, 2018 Share #20 Posted March 10, 2018 49 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said: Oh please. You act like any of this Genius Challenge is actually going to get done. This entire thing was a dog and pony show for the press so that the world could know that Cuomo was "on it", and even the one kind of decent, feasible idea involving robots is going to get caught up for years in stuff like red tape and union fights. We have literally had dozens of audits, investigations, task forces look into why the MTA is not doing poorly, and the collective response has been "use the money and workers you have more efficiently and spend some more on the engine of the economy." Are you surprised that no one who wasn't a hobbyist bothered participating in the latest one after Albany and the MTA stuck their collective fingers in their ear and stuck out their tongue at all the previous advice? Welp I guess the great thing is you'll have years of new thread topics to start new conversations and point things out on. Entertainment galore. I can speak for myself in saying just going to the Genius event I made great connections. Both from the MTA and beyond just from our entry into the contest we got locked in with the BOE here in NYC and possibly out LA for a tracking logistics platform. Point of the matter is whether I feel that way or not id much rather be at the table and in the room then not at all. There was a alot of smart and folks there, RPA ARUP you name it. Yeah it's red tape but you know what they showed up. And we spoke about solutions not pointing out problems and faults have to give credit for that! Hobbyist are the people we want to become the professionals you have a lot of young folks even on the forums that energy could go a long way with some ambition and direction who knows who might become what.. What message are we sending to them if we say it's all written in stone there nothing you can do that it not worth there time to try? Bleek future. Sometimes opportunities have to be created not given grit, grit, and persistence we need more of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted March 10, 2018 Share #21 Posted March 10, 2018 8 hours ago, Brillant93 said: I’ve been on this forum for a few months and seriously it’s laughable they way how some people criticize the ones who try to make a difference to help our transit system. Some people are calling these ideas stupid but yet are they proposing anything? Our system is old as ever and it needs to be upgraded ASAP. We cant afford 40 to 50 years to upgrade our subways, that’s is way too long. It’s no longer about catching up but it’s about being a head of other transit systems. If ultrawide band can shed decades of upgrading signals, different types of trains for capacity, and so on why not try it? Sometimes proposing nothing is better than proposing something. Especially if it will be a logistical nightmare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brillant93 Posted March 10, 2018 Share #22 Posted March 10, 2018 52 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said: Sometimes proposing nothing is better than proposing something. Especially if it will be a logistical nightmare... At this point is better to try something because we don’t have much of a choice. 40 to 50 years isn’t something worth putting faith in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted March 10, 2018 Share #23 Posted March 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, Brillant93 said: At this point is better to try something because we don’t have much of a choice. 40 to 50 years isn’t something worth putting faith in. No, it's not about trying, it's about getting stuff done. Name one thing that the MTA or any other party has done in order to improve transit right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted March 10, 2018 Share #24 Posted March 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said: No, it's not about trying, it's about getting stuff done. Name one thing that the MTA or any other party has done in order to improve transit right now. Cuomo trains (on the and at least) more capacity and on some of them I see no homeless whatsoever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brillant93 Posted March 10, 2018 Share #25 Posted March 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said: No, it's not about trying, it's about getting stuff done. Name one thing that the MTA or any other party has done in order to improve transit right now. Fast track, adding count down clocks to stations, hiring Andy Byford, CBTC signaling almost completed in the 7 train, ording new subway cars that are CBTC ready to instal, currently testing ultrawide band signaling to help upgrade signals less than 40 to 50 years. A lot is happening but it’s not going to happen overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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