Six years to resolve the subway problems?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

35 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

Cuomo trains (on the and at least) more capacity and on some of them I see no homeless whatsoever 

How have those exactly been working? Some of the sets aren't even placed in the proper position. Plus homeless can still get on those trains. 

 

33 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

Fast track, adding count down clocks to stations, hiring Andy Byford, CBTC signaling almost completed in the 7 train, ording new subway cars that are CBTC ready to instal, currently testing ultrawide band signaling to help upgrade signals less than 40 to 50 years. A lot is happening but it’s not going to happen overnight. 

First you mention that we have to do something, and now you mention things are "not gonna happen overnight", so which one is it?

The only thing that can possibly change the agency is having Andy Byford, but even he can fall victim to the bureaucracy in this agency. The system cannot wait any longer, because this issue affects so many people nowadays, and will hurt the city in the long run. Are we suppose to clap and cheer for the MTA? 

We need solutions now, because everything the MTA is doing now should have been done a long time ago, and done correctly. Oh, countdown clocks that are inaccurate and hard to find at most stations are finally here, bravo. Do you realize how long has CBTC related work on the is taking? Now how long do you expect the rest of the system to get up to date? How long will it take to modernize the signals so that there won't be thousands of subway delays all the time? The trains can't use CBTC until all the components are completed. 

At the rate we're going, we'd be lucky to have the transit system modernized. 

[Jemorie]

1 hour ago, Brillant93 said:

Fast track, adding count down clocks to stations, hiring Andy Byford, CBTC signaling almost completed in the 7 train, ording new subway cars that are CBTC ready to instal, currently testing ultrawide band signaling to help upgrade signals less than 40 to 50 years. A lot is happening but it’s not going to happen overnight. 

No duh. But one example I dislike about the  is the B Division, where all but one countdown clock only shows the time and the date. People have electronics to know the time and date already; they're more concern about when will their next train arrive, not what time it is and not what day it is. So please. Just my opinion. 

[Brillant93]

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

How have those exactly been working? Some of the sets aren't even placed in the proper position. Plus homeless can still get on those trains. 

 

First you mention that we have to do something, and now you mention things are "not gonna happen overnight", so which one is it?

The only thing that can possibly change the agency is having Andy Byford, but even he can fall victim to the bureaucracy in this agency. The system cannot wait any longer, because this issue affects so many people nowadays, and will hurt the city in the long run. Are we suppose to clap and cheer for the MTA? 

We need solutions now, because everything the MTA is doing now should have been done a long time ago, and done correctly. Oh, countdown clocks that are inaccurate and hard to find at most stations are finally here, bravo. Do you realize how long has CBTC related work on the is taking? Now how long do you expect the rest of the system to get up to date? How long will it take to modernize the signals so that there won't be thousands of subway delays all the time? The trains can't use CBTC until all the components are completed. 

At the rate we're going, we'd be lucky to have the transit system modernized. 

You're literally saying the things I was saying before. I was just providing examples of things the MTA was doing to help make the system better because you asked me to. Its not going to happen overnight doesn't mean I said don't do nothing. I was criticizing this whole thread for the point of criticizing the proposals that were being made. 

[Brillant93]

47 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

No duh. But one example I dislike about the  is the B Division, where all but one countdown clock only shows the time and the date. People have electronics to know the time and date already; they're more concern about when will their next train arrive, not what time it is and not what day it is. So please. Just my opinion. 

Countdown clocks have the arrival times of the trains. When I take the train I look for the count down clocks to reassure me the time the train is coming. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

45 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

Countdown clocks have the arrival times of the trains. When I take the train I look for the count down clocks to reassure me the time the train is coming. 

He's talking about the newer clocks. I agree. They only show the next two trains which is BS. If you have several trains that arrive at that station and two trains come back to back for the same line well good luck seeing when your line will arrive. So stupid. They should be able to show the next four trains at a minimum the way that they do on the Lex line.

[RailRunRob]

26 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

He's talking about the newer clocks. I agree. They only show the next two trains which is BS. If you have several trains that arrive at that station and two trains come back to back for the same line well good luck seeing when your line will arrive. So stupid. They should be able to show the next four trains at a minimum the way that they do on the Lex line.

How do you do that with limited Bluetooth tracking? There's no official AVL tagging in the B division that you get ATS.

[bobtehpanda]

3 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

Fast track, adding count down clocks to stations, hiring Andy Byford, CBTC signaling almost completed in the 7 train, ording new subway cars that are CBTC ready to instal, currently testing ultrawide band signaling to help upgrade signals less than 40 to 50 years. A lot is happening but it’s not going to happen overnight. 

A side note, but saying hiring Andy Byford is going to be an improvement is like prematurely giving Obama the Nobel Peace Prize for nothing in particular. Let's wait to see results on the ground before we start singing hallelujah.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

44 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

How do you do that with limited Bluetooth tracking? There's no official AVL tagging in the B division that you get ATS.

Find a way to do it then. So sick of the thousand excuses why this agency can't move into the 21st century. It's BS. In 2018, we should know where our trains are.

[RailRunRob]

1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Find a way to do it then. So sick of the thousand excuses why this agency can't move into the 21st century. It's BS. In 2018, we should know where our trains are.

Thus the findings in UWB. They called the tech minds and they found a way. 

[Brillant93]

25 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

A side note, but saying hiring Andy Byford is going to be an improvement is like prematurely giving Obama the Nobel Peace Prize for nothing in particular. Let's wait to see results on the ground before we start singing hallelujah.

You’re right but giving his track record I can have some faith. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

2 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

You're literally saying the things I was saying before. I was just providing examples of things the MTA was doing to help make the system better because you asked me to. Its not going to happen overnight doesn't mean I said don't do nothing. I was criticizing this whole thread for the point of criticizing the proposals that were being made. 

I don't know if you're not understanding what I'm say or if you pretend that you don't understand my post. Judging by your responses to checkmate in the SI thread, I'm going to say the latter.

2 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

Countdown clocks have the arrival times of the trains. When I take the train I look for the count down clocks to reassure me the time the train is coming. 

Your stances give off that MTA apologist vibe. You're trying to evade any sort of criticism that the MTA receives by anyone (whether legitimate or illegitimate) for anything, and then try to paint the tiniest things the MTA has done to improve the systems. The truth is, the MTA has been both careless and frugal for a long time, and right now, everybody who will get blamed is trying to make it look like they're the messiah. I have a (strong) feeling that if Cuomo gets reelected, he will exert his influence over Byford, and then stuff will get missy, and go back to square one. Right now though, he's just making sure to look good for the governor's race.

[RailRunRob]

If you want true change it comes at a cost. Rome has to burn. The only way out is honestly is a major hit to the economy. The City and region has to take a financial hit for people to truly understand. Let NY start taking a 20% GDP hit yearly guaranteed the MTA ranks would be cleaned.  They'd find the money then! And you can take that to the bank. 

[Brillant93]

55 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I don't know if you're not understanding what I'm say or if you pretend that you don't understand my post. Judging by your responses to checkmate in the SI thread, I'm going to say the latter.

Your stances give off that MTA apologist vibe. You're trying to evade any sort of criticism that the MTA receives by anyone (whether legitimate or illegitimate) for anything, and then try to paint the tiniest things the MTA has done to improve the systems. The truth is, the MTA has been both careless and frugal for a long time, and right now, everybody who will get blamed is trying to make it look like they're the messiah. I have a (strong) feeling that if Cuomo gets reelected, he will exert his influence over Byford, and then stuff will get missy, and go back to square one. Right now though, he's just making sure to look good for the governor's race.

BM5 via woodhaven

”Sometimes proposing nothing is better than proposing something. Especially if it will be a logistical nightmare.”

Brillant93

”At this point is better to try something because we don’t have much of a choice. 40 to 50 years isn’t something worth putting faith in.”

BM5 via woodhaven

“We need solutions now, because everything the MTA is doing now should have been done a long time ago, and done correctly.”

Brillant93 

“You're literally saying the things I was saying before. I was just providing examples of things the MTA was doing to help make the system better because you asked me to. Its not going to happen overnight doesn't mean I said don't do nothing. I was criticizing this whole thread for the point of criticizing the proposals that were being made.”

we are saying the same thing but wanting it to be approached different ways. You want solutions now but yet I see propsosals as a way to try and innovate. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

If you want true change it comes at a cost. Rome has to burn. The only way out is honestly is a major hit to the economy. The City and region has to take a financial hit for people to truly understand. Let NY start taking a 20% GDP hit yearly guaranteed the MTA ranks would be cleaned.  They'd find the money then! And you can take that to the bank. 

True change is the not spending a billion dollars per station. There's money here. Just too much mismanagement. I was in the Fulton Street subway station Friday. Figured I'd go for a stroll after my meeting just to see what the station looks like in terms of upkeep since I usually use other exits at that station. It looks like they have the front doors working again. Before several of them were broken. They're also extremely heavy. I just wonder who chose such doors for such a high volume station. I'm sure they were expensive too, but not functional. I saw a few vendors in there but they still have vacancies which was surprising given how much money they've poured into that place.

 

[RailRunRob]

42 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

True change is the not spending a billion dollars per station. There's money here. Just too much mismanagement. I was in the Fulton Street subway station Friday. Figured I'd go for a stroll after my meeting just to see what the station looks like in terms of upkeep since I usually use other exits at that station. It looks like they have the front doors working again. Before several of them were broken. They're also extremely heavy. I just wonder who chose such doors for such a high volume station. I'm sure they were expensive too, but not functional. I saw a few vendors in there but they still have vacancies which was surprising given how much money they've poured into that place.

 

I don't see them changing by choice. The Organization is going to have to essentially be backed into a corner with no options or ways out. Even the genuis challenge was a pivot strategically a way to buy time. There running out of moves now they're going to have to perform. As long theres a perception that it all works even temporarily and money being made it's going to continue. The region has to go into recession or start losing on the major scale for people to start finding the money or cutting the cost to get infrastructure funded and fixed the way it needs to look at the Gateway project. People's pockets and day to day need to be affected.  Wasnt Fulton Center funded by 9/11 monies? Don't think it was funded via the MTA budget they couldn't use it for other things in the system so I was told.

[CenSin]

11 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

You’re right but giving his track record I can have some faith. 

Given New York City’s track record… you get a collision and a lot of smoke. Who’s going to walk out of that unscathed?

[TheNewYorkElevated]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

True change is the not spending a billion dollars per station. There's money here. Just too much mismanagement. I was in the Fulton Street subway station Friday. Figured I'd go for a stroll after my meeting just to see what the station looks like in terms of upkeep since I usually use other exits at that station. It looks like they have the front doors working again. Before several of them were broken. They're also extremely heavy. I just wonder who chose such doors for such a high volume station. I'm sure they were expensive too, but not functional. I saw a few vendors in there but they still have vacancies which was surprising given how much money they've poured into that place.

 

Summed up; Money being wasted by corrupt politicians to bolster their image. The subway is suffering hard now thanks to their bs practices (2:50 to 3:13 is the part I'm talking about). Some of those politicians years ago didn't even care about the system until it was all over the news.

1 hour ago, RailRunRob said:

 Wasnt Fulton Center funded by 9/11 monies?

Fulton Center was funded by post-9/11 federal money. 

[RailRunRob]

18 minutes ago, TheNewYorkElevated said:

Fulton Center was funded by post-9/11 federal money. 

Right. So to be fair can't use it as a measurement of station cost my point. LMDC funding.

[RailRunRob]

18 minutes ago, TheNewYorkElevated said:

Some of those politicians years ago didn't even care about the system until it was all over the news.

That's the key. When it starts to affect the bottom line is when the MTA and NYS will have all eyes on them. 

[bobtehpanda]

13 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

Welp I guess the great thing is you'll have years of new thread topics to start new conversations and point things out on. Entertainment galore.  I can speak for myself in saying just going to the Genius event I made great connections. Both from the MTA and beyond just from our entry into the contest we got locked in with the BOE here in NYC and possibly out LA for a  tracking logistics platform.  Point of the matter is whether I feel that way or not id much rather be at the table and in the room then not at all. There was a alot of smart and folks there, RPA ARUP you name it. Yeah it's red tape but you know what they showed up. And we spoke about solutions not pointing out problems and faults have to give credit for that! Hobbyist are the people we want to become the professionals you have a lot of young folks even on the forums that energy could go a long way with some ambition and direction who knows who might become what.. What message are we sending to them if we say it's all written in stone there nothing you can do that it not worth there time to try? Bleek future. Sometimes opportunities have to be created not given grit, grit, and persistence we need more of it.

The main problem I have with this challenge is that the challenge attempts to solve symptoms but not the actual problem. The actual problem is the politics around the MTA, and literally everything else is secondary to that; relationships with construction unions, the workforce, consulting, management, the inability to adopt new technologies and practices, etc. is all secondary to the big problem.

[RailRunRob]

5 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

The main problem I have with this challenge is that the challenge attempts to solve symptoms but not the actual problem. The actual problem is the politics around the MTA, and literally everything else is secondary to that; relationships with construction unions, the workforce, consulting, management, the inability to adopt new technologies and practices, etc. is all secondary to the big problem.

Not saying you don't have a point. But don't blame the player you have to blame the game. That's issue is as old as America itself and so not limited to the MTA infact you described an issue on almost every level of government. The MTA is run by the State connecting the dots that's run by your elected officials your quest start's there. Everyone else is just trying to help where they can and move things forward despite. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 3/11/2018 at 8:55 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

True change is the not spending a billion dollars per station. There's money here. Just too much mismanagement. I was in the Fulton Street subway station Friday. Figured I'd go for a stroll after my meeting just to see what the station looks like in terms of upkeep since I usually use other exits at that station. It looks like they have the front doors working again. Before several of them were broken. They're also extremely heavy. I just wonder who chose such doors for such a high volume station. I'm sure they were expensive too, but not functional. I saw a few vendors in there but they still have vacancies which was surprising given how much money they've poured into that place.

 

Agreed. Building (or re-building) stations should not be costing in the billions. That's ridiculously high, even by New York standards. For what they spent on Fulton Transit Center and New South Ferry, you kind of have to wonder how much new subway could have been built.

Perhaps something like this (not my idea, but I do think it has some merit):

For more, here's the post from Subchat (yes, it's from 2007!): http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=486854

Essentially, he proposed building SAS Phase 4 with a connection to the 6th Ave Line via Grand Street using the "Shallow Chrystie" option (even though the MTA wants "Deep Chrystie.") It most likely would have been the  train rerouted to the Water St subway. Had it been built, it would have certainly precluded the current  service.

[itmaybeokay]

So, I read the proposal suggesting the use of UWB, and I gotta be honest, I fail to see how it's going to significantly speed up deployment. 

First of all, you're talking about developing a COMPLETELY NEW CBTC platform. The only thing UWB gives you is the position of the trains. There's to be two 5.9ghz UWB transmitters per car, and wayside antennas every couple hundred feet would give you position information on the train. You still have to do all the CBTC computing and get a cab signal back to the operating motor. 

The existing CBTC systems are using roadbed transponders at fixed locations which the train reads to determine it's location. The roadbed transponders are passive, energized by induction from the reader on the train. Not unlike Ez-pass. As far as I can tell the only benefits are not having to get transponders on the roadbed, and having an accuracy of trains position within centimeters instead of meters - but why is like, 2m resolution that bad in this scenario? 

And you're still installing wayside radios up and down the entire system. It's not like, by eliminating roadbed transponders, you can suddenly do that work without stopping trains. 

[Art Vandelay]

On 3/10/2018 at 9:16 PM, bobtehpanda said:

A side note, but saying hiring Andy Byford is going to be an improvement is like prematurely giving Obama the Nobel Peace Prize for nothing in particular. Let's wait to see results on the ground before we start singing hallelujah.

Byford is a proven great leader. NYCT is lucky to have him. He has demonstrated the ability to work wonders. Given real control and real funding, he could turn the place around. 


Delete Byford and insert Hakim. The prior line is just as true. Do the same with Bianco and Prendergast. Again, a true statement. 

The problem here isn't the current leader of NYCT. It is well above them. 

 

[B35 via Church]

On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 9:50 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I don't know if you're not understanding what I'm say or if you pretend that you don't understand my post. Judging by your responses to checkmate in the SI thread, I'm going to say the latter.

Your stances give off that MTA apologist vibe. You're trying to evade any sort of criticism that the MTA receives by anyone (whether legitimate or illegitimate) for anything, and then try to paint the tiniest things the MTA has done to improve the systems. The truth is, the MTA has been both careless and frugal for a long time, and right now, everybody who will get blamed is trying to make it look like they're the messiah. I have a (strong) feeling that if Cuomo gets reelected, he will exert his influence over Byford, and then stuff will get missy, and go back to square one. Right now though, he's just making sure to look good for the governor's race.

The dude puts a gargantuan amount of faith in whatever it is that the MTA claims that they're going to do.... The MTA says they're gonna do 'X', then 'X' HAS to be a great idea - why would they suggest something detrimental to the city's mass transit system, right? Basically an angel's advocate..... Free-thinker be damned..... Highly annoying.... Apparently it's not just me that's seeing this guy's crap for what it is.....

59 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said:

Delete Byford and insert Hakim. The prior line is just as true. Do the same with Bianco and Prendergast. Again, a true statement. 

The problem here isn't the current leader of NYCT. It is well above them. 

Thank you... Nothing more than figureheads. Where's Walder Waldo when you needed him

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 10:22 PM, bobtehpanda said:

This entire genius challenge was more like a delusional idiot challenge. Did you see the garbage third place idea with skip-stopping cars of trains? Ridiculous.

Never put any stock in it from day one.... Just the title alone to me was a turnoff; sends off this vibe that this is some sort of f****ng game being played here with mass transit in this city..... Very gimmicky sounding.....

 I now drive 5 days a week to & from Long Island... Tired of the games.

On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 8:11 AM, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

So were not allowed to have opinions? If we don't analyze these proposals, who knows if we'll have a better system or not? Not to mention, not all of us are engineers or people who participated in this plan, so all we can do is analyze how their plans go and affect our system that most of us ride frequently. These ideas are just ideas and who knows if they'll make our system any better, or will take forever, work little and just put the agency in more debt.

Also, why do we need to be ahead of other transit systems? Don't we need to get out of the hole the MTA just keeps digging?

Naaahhhh, we're just supposed to take whatever shaft the MTA tries to shag up our collective asses because the almighty MTA says so & there isn't a thing us peasants (commuters) can do about it - the nay-sayers or the Kool-Aid drinkers bursting through the walls shouting OoooohhHh YeahHhHhhh whenever the MTA has a BRILLIANT idea.... This agency isn't in it for the betterment of transit & there isn't a single, solitary soul that can get me to believe otherwise.... Just look at their track record over the course of decades (regardless of mode) & you tell me whether the positives outweigh the negatives, or vice versa.....

We can only harp on small victories but for so long.... I'm going to keep bringing this up as an example - Not even 2 years ago, the MTA was touting record ridership on the subways.... Now there is this conveyance that the subway system is in dire straits & instead of focusing 100% of the attention on rectifying matters, they're sitting there playing blame games & looking for outs....

Politics enters the stage... Transit needs exits, stage left.......