@LIRR: “Because of fire at Jamaica, you ain’t going nowhere.”

[Deucey]

 

My question is: why isn’t there 1 or 2 north/south lines connecting branches so service can reasonably continue if there’s an outage at major station?

Hub and Spoke may be efficient, but it’s subject to catastrophic failure - like when Jamaica shuts down.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

If the West Hempstead branch wasn't truncated to West Hempstead (and continued north to connect to the Main Line and Oyster Bay Branch at Mineola), this wouldn't have been so much of a problem. 

[NY1635]

The fire broke out at a recycling plant in Hollis located right near the tracks.

http://abc7ny.com/traffic/fire-near-lirr-tracks-causes-service-suspensions/3224319/

[B35 via Church]

Yeah it's a friday & all that, but still, every single n22/x I passed by along Hillside was unusually slammed.... This explains it.

 

[46Dover]

12 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Yeah it's a friday & all that, but still, every single n22/x I passed by along Hillside was unusually slammed.... This explains it.

 

Seems like the whole New York region took it up the backside Friday.  No sooner I get to Newark on my 78 route than the Electronic Message Board said NJ Transit service between New York and Newark is suspended due to the great ugly monster that is Portal Bridge being stuck open.  I took only a handful of those train customers.

 

Some of our buses had to double back to Summit to handle the excess passengers as Midtown Direct service was diverted to Hoboken.  I wondered how NICE would’ve handled this situation with the manpower/equipment they have.

[speedyracer90]

4 hours ago, 46Dover said:

Seems like the whole New York region took it up the backside Friday.  No sooner I get to Newark on my 78 route than the Electronic Message Board said NJ Transit service between New York and Newark is suspended due to the great ugly monster that is Portal Bridge being stuck open.  I took only a handful of those train customers.

 

Some of our buses had to double back to Summit to handle the excess passengers as Midtown Direct service was diverted to Hoboken.  I wondered how NICE would’ve handled this situation with the manpower/equipment they have.

I had the unfortunate luck of having to work out in LI on Friday. I left around 5:20 so I could make the 5:45 train out of NHP to Penn Station. Needless to say, I had to resort to taking the N24 back to the . The N24 was so packed I was basically stuck riding by the front door for the entire trip back to 179th street. I wouldn't have even gotten on if there wasn't a passenger that didn't have to get off at the stop I was at. On the plus side, we pretty much skipped a good amount of stops since the bus driver couldn't fit any more passengers. While the N24 is usually packed when I leave around 5, I'm usually able to get on the bus the rare times that I take it. That was definitely the craziest bus driver I've had. NICE sure does make service look like first class service.

[officiallyliam]

On 3/16/2018 at 2:18 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

If the West Hempstead branch wasn't truncated to West Hempstead (and continued north to connect to the Main Line and Oyster Bay Branch at Mineola), this wouldn't have been so much of a problem. 

Yes - the West Hempstead branch would be far more useful if it provided a connection to Mineola, both as a connection between the radial lines of the island as well as a backup for situations like this. The same can be said for the Central Branch; that should be double-tracked and electrified to make the Montauk services more frequent and reliable, and again, to offer better north-south island connections. Perhaps if the Central Branch ever is double-tracked and electrified, a few infill stations could be added south of Bethpage and a rapid-transit style shuttle service could operate from Babylon to Hicksville.

[Deucey]

21 hours ago, speedyracer90 said:

That was definitely the craziest bus driver I've had. NICE sure does make service look like first class service.

Try riding a Staten Island bus during AM rush hour. Or B38 Limited.

NICE and MTA are two cheeks off the same ass.

[B35 via Church]

36 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Try riding a Staten Island bus during AM rush hour. Or B38 Limited.

NICE and MTA are two cheeks off the same ass.

If the MTA is one asscheek, then NICE is the diarrhea, the anus, and the other asscheek all-in-one.....

22 hours ago, speedyracer90 said:

I had the unfortunate luck of having to work out in LI on Friday. I left around 5:20 so I could make the 5:45 train out of NHP to Penn Station. Needless to say, I had to resort to taking the N24 back to the . The N24 was so packed I was basically stuck riding by the front door for the entire trip back to 179th street. I wouldn't have even gotten on if there wasn't a passenger that didn't have to get off at the stop I was at. On the plus side, we pretty much skipped a good amount of stops since the bus driver couldn't fit any more passengers. While the N24 is usually packed when I leave around 5, I'm usually able to get on the bus the rare times that I take it. That was definitely the craziest bus driver I've had. NICE sure does make service look like first class service.

SCT makes NICE look like first class service... I would laugh, but I'm dead serious with that statement.

As for that 5:40 out of Mineola (which is the 5:45 out of NHP), that's the train I used to take when I left the office late.... Would always let that 5:32 (that goes straight from Mineola to HSF) go, because it would always be a damn sardine can.... 5:40 left you with a better chance at a seat - even if it meant waiting another 10 mins. or so for the connection to the Brooklyn train at JAM.....

More power to you though... I would have either have taken a taxi up to the PW branch or a taxi to Langdale st (Q43 end terminal).... I refuse to take NICEbus.

It was about 2 weeks ago when I was heading to work one morning along Jericho Tpke & saw 2 n24's broken-down (one Jamaica bound & the other one eastbound)...... We may have our critiques about the MTA's incompetence on these forums, but you're simply not seeing all these buses breaking down like wildfire here in the city.....

[NY1635]

On 3/17/2018 at 10:08 AM, 46Dover said:

Seems like the whole New York region took it up the backside Friday.  No sooner I get to Newark on my 78 route than the Electronic Message Board said NJ Transit service between New York and Newark is suspended due to the great ugly monster that is Portal Bridge being stuck open.  I took only a handful of those train customers.

 

Some of our buses had to double back to Summit to handle the excess passengers as Midtown Direct service was diverted to Hoboken.  I wondered how NICE would’ve handled this situation with the manpower/equipment they have.

Easy, NICE can have the n24 short turn at Mineola to deal with the crowds at NHP LIRR and Mineola while the n22x and n22 locals handle everything east of RFM. There are more people wanting service to New Cassel along the n22 than the n24 east of Eisenhower Park along Old Country Road. The n24 gets more people between 179th and Mineola because it has open door service up until Jamaica and Cross Island Parkway thanks to Floral Park. From what I've heard, the new County Executive is planning on adding 7.1 million to NICE's budget.

I don't think the Main Line between Mineola and Jamaica is worth it during the rush with the high amount of delays and cancellations happening there. It's starting to get to the point where the MTA just gives up hope and outright recommend that people use the Babylon Branch for service to/from the island. 

[Deucey]

4 hours ago, NY1635 said:

It's starting to get to the point where the MTA just gives up hope and outright recommend that people use the Babylon Branch for service to/from the island. 

That's kind of the problem with  - they mismanage, and when crisis hits, they give up.

It's why I'm really not mad at DeBlasio for not giving up extra money for the Action Plan. It'd be one thing if they had plans to improve things and didn't have the money, but what it is is they're saying "Give me money" and later figuring it out.

Why not innovate with what they have already? Oh wait, because they blew the money spending 40+ years building a tunnel under Park Avenue instead of fixing the chokepoints that affect people getting to/from Penn or Atlantic.

[NY1635]

2 hours ago, Deucey said:

That's kind of the problem with  - they mismanage, and when crisis hits, they give up.

It's why I'm really not mad at DeBlasio for not giving up extra money for the Action Plan. It'd be one thing if they had plans to improve things and didn't have the money, but what it is is they're saying "Give me money" and later figuring it out.

Why not innovate with what they have already? Oh wait, because they blew the money spending 40+ years building a tunnel under Park Avenue instead of fixing the chokepoints that affect people getting to/from Penn or Atlantic.

Governor Cuomo thinks that Penn Station is outdated and it really needs a brand new station. Every time I go thru Penn, I always see people getting real comfortable waiting for the train to arrive at Track 20 and 21. I've seen people use outlets to plug in and charge their phones during the wait, grab a slice of pizza or a can of beer to keep them sustained until either the Babylon or Ronkonkoma branch arrives. I haven't really seen anything wild at Atlantic Terminal, the trains always arrive and leave on schedule with minor disruptions. 

What Penn really needs is massive repair work on the tunnels, but both Cuomo and Schumer want the federal government to pick up the tab and not taking a hint that Trump hates the both of them. 

[Missabassie]

 

17 hours ago, NY1635 said:

Governor Cuomo thinks that Penn Station is outdated and it really needs a brand new station. Every time I go thru Penn, I always see people getting real comfortable waiting for the train to arrive at Track 20 and 21. I've seen people use outlets to plug in and charge their phones during the wait, grab a slice of pizza or a can of beer to keep them sustained until either the Babylon or Ronkonkoma branch arrives. I haven't really seen anything wild at Atlantic Terminal, the trains always arrive and leave on schedule with minor disruptions. 

What Penn really needs is massive repair work on the tunnels, but both Cuomo and Schumer want the federal government to pick up the tab and not taking a hint that Trump hates the both of them. 

Trump hates everyone.

[NY1635]

1 hour ago, Missabassie said:

 

Trump hates everyone.

Everyone hates Albany, Washington, CNN, and MSNBC more than they hate Trump, which is why he got elected. We're living in an age where people want Oprah to be President, or are willing to vote for a Sex In the City Actress for Governor of NY if it means getting rid of Cuomo.

[Jsunflyguy]

On 3/19/2018 at 4:40 PM, Deucey said:

Why not innovate with what they have already? 

What do you have in mind?

[bobtehpanda]

On 3/16/2018 at 10:59 AM, Deucey said:

My question is: why isn’t there 1 or 2 north/south lines connecting branches so service can reasonably continue if there’s an outage at major station?

Hub and Spoke may be efficient, but it’s subject to catastrophic failure - like when Jamaica shuts down.

The railroad has not significantly expanded its footprint since the building of the first Penn Station, and the land prices are too high to justify building it today. The Third Track by itself is $2-3B IIRC.

[officiallyliam]

3 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

The railroad has not significantly expanded its footprint since the building of the first Penn Station, and the land prices are too high to justify building it today. The Third Track by itself is $2-3B IIRC.

This would be possible using all existing infrastructure and rights-of-way; it shouldn't really cost that much (although if East Side Access and the Third Track tell us anything, it's that LIRR costs are often through the roof).

But two north-south services could simply consist of a re-extended West Hempstead line and an improved Central Branch. The ROW is (mostly) intact to send the West Hempstead line to Mineola, though constructing new tracks and platforms for the service at Mineola will require taking land. As for the Central Branch, the footprint is already there for a second track. All that would remain would be electrification and a maybe a couple of infill stations, at Route 110 and Sunrise Highway. Both of these services would only require 2 or 3 short M7 sets to shuttle back and forth.

[NY1635]

59 minutes ago, officiallyliam said:

This would be possible using all existing infrastructure and rights-of-way; it shouldn't really cost that much (although if East Side Access and the Third Track tell us anything, it's that LIRR costs are often through the roof).

But two north-south services could simply consist of a re-extended West Hempstead line and an improved Central Branch. The ROW is (mostly) intact to send the West Hempstead line to Mineola, though constructing new tracks and platforms for the service at Mineola will require taking land. As for the Central Branch, the footprint is already there for a second track. All that would remain would be electrification and a maybe a couple of infill stations, at Route 110 and Sunrise Highway. Both of these services would only require 2 or 3 short M7 sets to shuttle back and forth.

It's not possible because these tracks for the West Hempstead Branch ends on back of Liquidators, and Garden City will protest any attempt at bringing tracks on thru their backyards to get to Mineola. The West Hempstead Branch itself has terrible service with little usage.

[officiallyliam]

18 hours ago, NY1635 said:

It's not possible because these tracks for the West Hempstead Branch ends on back of Liquidators, and Garden City will protest any attempt at bringing tracks on thru their backyards to get to Mineola. The West Hempstead Branch itself has terrible service with little usage.

Where is this? Looking on Google Maps shows an intact path from the West Hempstead station as far as Country Life Press, though there are blockages north of there, particularly as you get close to Mineola. Garden City NIMBYs, though, could be the downfall of such a project, if their protests to the third track tells us anything. 

A big part of the reason the West Hempstead branch has poor ridership is because it stub-ends in the middle of nowhere. A line that connected Valley Stream with Mineola, two towns with a good number of both residents and employment, as well as connecting the two main LIRR radial lines, will get far higher ridership - and, therefore, will get better service. 

[RR503]

I'd make the West Hempstead and Oyster Bay branches into an LRT system, connecting them via on-street running through downtown Hempstead. You get much better/faster service, lower fares, and intra-island connectivity that way. Shouldn't be too difficult to build -- the rights of way are pretty much all there. 

[officiallyliam]

3 hours ago, RR503 said:

I'd make the West Hempstead and Oyster Bay branches into an LRT system, connecting them via on-street running through downtown Hempstead. You get much better/faster service, lower fares, and intra-island connectivity that way. Shouldn't be too difficult to build -- the rights of way are pretty much all there. 

The problem there is that as you've increased the usability of the West Hempstead line, you've simultaneously decreased the usability of the Oyster Bay line. Although it has low ridership today, the riders that are there primarily want to go New York City, not south through Nassau County. I'm totally with the LRT/tram-train idea from Valley Stream to Mineola via Hempstead, but I'm unsure about going all the way up to Oyster Bay.

[CDTA]

On 3/22/2018 at 9:53 PM, officiallyliam said:

The problem there is that as you've increased the usability of the West Hempstead line, you've simultaneously decreased the usability of the Oyster Bay line. Although it has low ridership today, the riders that are there primarily want to go New York City, not south through Nassau County. I'm totally with the LRT/tram-train idea from Valley Stream to Mineola via Hempstead, but I'm unsure about going all the way up to Oyster Bay.

When the third track project is done there's no longer going to be any direct Oyster Bay-NYC service, so you might as well make it go somewhere.