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Union Tpke

Systemwide CBTC - Planning and Implementation

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On 4/28/2018 at 9:50 AM, RTOMan said:

Just do not hold y'all breath waiting now....

They got lots of work to do i say 2022 at least for the Queens Blvd Line.

I see they are building a relay at Kings Highway for the F so im guessing CBTC will be in effect from Jay to Stillwell on the Fox.

Testing is going to begin this December on the Queens Blvd line. You don’t think testing will take 3 years, do you?

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On 6/30/2018 at 4:22 AM, LexAveExp5 said:

Testing is going to begin this December on the Queens Blvd line. You don’t think testing will take 3 years, do you?

Let me clarify what i meant...

Im not talking From Queens Plaza 21st to Union Turnpike (that is as far as I see those transponders on the tracks in Queens)..

When i say "Queens Blvd" Im talking from 179st Parsons Archer To 21st and Queens Plaza.

Two Towers are still there that have to be linked to CTL Master 179 and Parsons...

I forget from time to time im not talking on a site that  is100% Co workers who understand the jargon..

Im on the Fox so when i see the GO ill let you know.. Until then...

Edited by RTOMan
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Project: T7090423

Description: New Negative Side Feeders on Lexington Ave Line

Category: Traction Power

Element: Traction Power

xxxxxxxxxx

...Start 6/2018 end design 1/19

$1.5 million

This project will fund design for the upgrade of the negative cables on the Lexington Avenue Line to improve power distribution and support higher train throughput eventually made possible by Communications-Based Train Control (CBTC).

Project: T7090422

Description: New Low Resistance Contact Rail on Lexington Ave Line

Category: Traction Power

Element: Traction Power

xxxxxxxxxx

...

This project will fund design for the replacement of selected segm ents of existing 150 lb contact rail with low resistance 84C contact rail along the Lexington Avenue Line to improve power distribution and support higher train throughput eventually made possible by Communicat ions-Based Train Control (CBTC).

Project: T7080341

Description: Install Communication-Based Train Control (CBTC): Lexington Ave Line and Interlockings

Category: Signals & Communications

Element: Signals & Communications

xxxxxxxxxx

...

This project will fund design for the installation of Communications-Based Train Control (CBTC) and modernization of signal interlockings on the Lexington Ave Line in the boroughs of Brooklyn, Manhattan, and the Bronx. The extent of the project is from 149 St Grand-Co ncourse and 3 Av-149 St to Nevins St.

Design Start September 2018

$3 million

Project: T7080340

Description: Install Communication-Based Train Control (CBTC): Queens Blvd East and Interlockings

Category: Signals & Communications

Element: Signals & Communications

xxxxxxxxxx

...

This project will fund design for the installation of Communicatio ns-Based Train Control (CBTC) and modernization of signal interlockings on the Queens Blvd East Line in the borough of Queens. The extent of the project is from Union Turnpike to 179 St and Jamaica Center.< /div>

Design start 9/18 End 7/19 $2 MILLION

 

Construction on Culver CBTC south of Church and 8th Avenue CBTC will begin in December. 8th Avenue to be completed 4/24; Culver 1/22

Related: Work on Ditmas Interlocking will begin in December

Edited by Union Tpke
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8 hours ago, RTOMan said:

Thanks for sharing this Info!

You are welcome. I had been waiting for the Dashboard update since September. They always come about two months late.

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Going forward, please use this thread for any MTA information related to the installation of CBTC signaling systemwide.

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3 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

So we all know the corridors that will get CBTC but what's the order of implementation?

So far, yes! In the next 5 years (and pretty much everyone should know by now) these lines will be getting CBTC: 

Queens Blvd (E)(F)(M)(R) 

8th Avenue (A)(C)(E) 

Lexington (4)(5)(6) 

Culver (F)

Crosstown (G) 

I’d specify more but my mind is still a little tired from the previous weekend.

 

 

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This looks like a great hire to me. Clearly knows what he's doing based on his track record.

Quote

NYC Transit President Byford Announces Hiring of New Signal Modernization Expert

"Pete Tomlin will join NYC Transit as the head of the agency’s systemwide resignaling efforts in January.  A native Briton, Tomlin brings more than 21 years of international experience in the complex discipline of upgrading signal systems on new and existing subway systems, most recently in Toronto but before that in London and Hong Kong.  An electrical engineer by training, Tomlin specializes in leading unified teams of in-house, consultant and contractor staff to install modern signal systems on both “green field” (new) and “brown field” (existing) subway lines, a highly specialized and demanding task that requires exceptional planning, technical and operational knowledge.

“I worked with Pete in both London and Toronto and I need him on my team to drive the Fast Forward resignaling program,” President Byford said.  “He has a stellar track record, he knows how to get contractors to deliver as part of a unified team, and I am delighted that I was able to persuade him to take up a real ‘New York challenge’.”

“I love delivering world class signaling systems and as NYC Transit is probably the most prestigious system in the world with many challenges it is tremendously exciting for me to be a part of something that delivers a world class service for the people of New York,” Tomlin said.

In London, Tomlin managed the implementation of the Jubilee Line Extension (JLE) in 1997 for the supplier and later, in 2006, the test and commissioning of the entire Jubilee Line.  He then spent two and a half years in Hong Kong where he delivered the West Rail and Ma On Shan subway lines.  In late 2009, Tomlin joined the Toronto Transit Commission’s and between 2012 and 2018 oversaw the first four commissioning phases of the resignaling of the TTC’s Line 1, including successful on-time delivery of the signal system to control the Line 1 subway extension to Vaughan in 2017.  As recently as this month, he oversaw the on-time commissioning of 19 km of mainline operation and the new interfaces to the train yard with flawless service from the start."

The full press release is here: http://www.mta.info/press-release/nyc-transit/nyc-transit-president-byford-announces-hiring-new-signal-modernization

Byford says Tomlin's first assignment will be to make tweaks to the (7) after the meltdowns this month and to finish Queens Boulevard.

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On 12/6/2018 at 4:09 PM, Around the Horn said:

I meant in what order would those corridors be built...

I would say QBL first then Lex or something, not perfectly sure 

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51 minutes ago, KK 6 Ave Local said:

I would say QBL first then Lex or something, not perfectly sure 

QBL is going to be next in line (E)(F)(M)(R) Which will be complete in 2021. This will affect both Jamaica Terminals, the Queens Blvd Main Line, and the 53rd Street gunnel.

Next in Line will be 8th Avenue between Columbus Circle and Hoyt-Schemehorn (I believe, or was it Jay Street-Metro Tech? I don’t remember right now) For The (A)(C)(E). I’m unaware of the completion date since all I’m aware of is that it will be done congruently with QBL. The (E) would be fully CBTC by then. 

On 12/6/2018 at 4:09 PM, Around the Horn said:

I meant in what order would those corridors be built...

Well, It was stated that QBL and 8th Avenue are next in line for CBTC. It’s likely that after those 2, Lexington (4)(5)(6) would be next in line to receive CBTC between Nenvis Street and 3rd Avenue-138th Street and 149th Street-Grand Concourse. As for it’s completion date, I’m currently unaware of that. Also, I’m assuming that the order of each line that would receive CBTC under Fast Forward would revive them under the order they were given (whitin 5-10 years of course)

 Anyways, next in line is Culver I believe. I find the implementation for this one weird because it doesn’t cover Culver entirely (and by that I mean only between Ditmas Avenue and West 8th Street-NY Aquarium). Since the (F) would be partly CBTC under this plan, be fleet changes would need to be made. I understand that the Section between Jay Street and Church Avenue is to test signals, trains and what not, but I find it odd that we won’t be getting CBTC under that section. I went to TransportationCampNYC 2018 a couple of months ago. When Andy Byford presented Fast Forward, someone asked him why CBTC wouldn’t be added between Jay Street and Hoyt tin Coney Island to cover the entirety of Culver. If I recall correctly, Mr. Byford said that he’d add that into his plan. Though, I don’t remember what he said clearly. If anyone else here went to TransportationCampNYC 2018 and remember what he said, can you shed some light on this? As for the completion date for Culver, I’m also unaware of that. 

Anyways, the last Line for the 5 year plan would be Crosstown (G) between Court Square and Hoyt-Schemehorn. I’m unaware of the completion date for this but I’d suggest for (MTA) to begin CBTC work on Crosstown now (without letting it interfere with the (L) train shutdown). That way, the (G) would be able to operate more smoothly which would help many (G) line commuters. This would also be a boon for Amazon HQ2. 

The lines that are scheduled for the 10 year plan, I’m unaware of the order for that. All I know is that the following will get CBTC within 10 years.

6th Avenue (B)(D)(F)(M) (between Dekalb Avenue and Columbus Circle for the Express and Jay Street to the 63rd Street tunnel  for the Local)  The (F) would be fully CBTC by then.

7th Avenue (1)(2)(3) (between Nenvis Street and South Ferry to Harlem-148th Street and Jackson Avenue) I find this to be the weirdest batch whitin the 10 year timeline because it ends for the (1) at 96th Street and for the (2) at Jackson Avenue which would affect the (5) as well.

Fulton Street and the Rockaways (A)(C)(S) (between Hoyt-Schemehorn and Lefferts and the Rockaways) This would help Fulton Street and Rockaways Riders, but in the long term, a new local service would need to take over Fulton to allow for express (C) runs to Queens. 

Broadway (N)(Q)(R)(W) (between Queensboro Plaza and Dekalb Avenue via Bridge and Tunnel) this is another batch I find odd because it doesn’t bother to give SAS nor Astoria CBTC at all. Astoria because it needs a better terminal and SAS because it’s relatively new. But as we all know, CBTC would be more effective on Broadway if it were deinterlined. Which is a discussion for another day. 

Well, those are the lines scheduled to get CBTC under Fast Forward. One pet peeve I have about this plan is that it doesn’t cover entire line segments (I.e. the (1) between 96th and 242nd and CPW). For all I know, the only lines that will be fully CBTC under this timeline are the (L)(7)(E) and possibly the (F). However, as said before in these forums, (and I’lol day it in my own words) CBTC won’t mean anything to us if we can’t even maintain our current signals properly.

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Some updates for CBTC rolling stock in this month's CPOC meeting...

http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/190122_1400_CPOC.pdf

A contract for CBTC conversion and "upgrade" of R142/A cars will be awarded later in 2019 

Quote

Fast Forward Plan | R142A Project Details

Scope

• Upgrade key subsystems, leveraging lessons learned from R188 upgrades to improve fleet reliability: Doors, HVAC, Brake Controls

• Install CBTC in support of Lexington Avenue Line Schedule

• Proposed Contract Award: 2019 

Quote

Fast Forward Plan | R142 Project Details

CBTC Conversion & Upgrade of 1,030 R142 ‘A’ Division Subway CarsScope

• System upgrades with implementation of full Ethernet network

• Install CBTC in support of Lexington Avenue Line
• Replace key subsystems including Communications, Doors, Propulsion/Braking and HVAC
• Integration of state-of-the-art Monitoring and Diagnostics System (MDS) 

Schedule

• Proposed Contract Award: 2019

And a contract for new R262 cars is going to replace R62/A cars and of course support CBTC:

Quote

Fast Forward Plan | R262 Project Details

Scope

• Replacement of 1,139 R62 and R62A fleet, plus fleet expansion
• CBTC-equipped trains to support overall acceleration of CBTC
• Car design utilizing the latest R211 Technical Specification requirements as

Schedule

• Proposed Contract Award: Future Capital Program 

Sounds like future assignments on the Lex will be: 

(4)(5) R142/A  

(6) R262

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21 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

And a contract for new R262 cars is going to replace R62/A cars and of course support CBTC:

Sounds like future assignments on the Lex will be: 

(4)(5) R142/A  

(6) R262

But then the bulk of the R262s would have to get here in time for when CBTC goes live on the Lex...unless, the first phase of the CBTC timetable gets pushed back a few years. Then that gives MTA a bit more time to get them right. 

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3 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

But then the bulk of the R262s would have to get here in time for when CBTC goes live on the Lex...unless, the first phase of the CBTC timetable gets pushed back a few years. Then that gives MTA a bit more time to get them right. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if this happens. 90% of the time contracts and rebuilds of stations run late anyways.

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I wonder: will the 262s have 5 car units as well as single units for the shuttle, or will they go for a six car set (or 3 cars even)?

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We know one thing, there will have to specialized consists for both the 42nd Street shuttle (to be extended to six-car lengths) and the Franklin Ave shuttle (limited to 180-feet car lengths at Franklin Av and Park Place).

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Just wanted to throw this chart in here to add some more color to my objections to AWS

If you look at that timeline, you'll see a disproportionately large amount of the work is AWS related. That disruption, combined with the additional costs incurred (you're building a new block signal system from the ground up, and then you're tearing it up for CBTC), combined with the fact that it's actually cheaper just to equip work trains with CBTC equipment once again makes me question whether or not we even have the basics of CBTC installation down. 

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1 minute ago, Around the Horn said:

AWS being Auxiliary Wayside Signals?

Yes.

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