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Deucey

MTA: ‘You don’t need your money as much as we do.’

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http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/mta-expects-raise-fares-2019-financial-troubles-continue-article-1.3889028

Riders are likely to face another fare hike next year, unless MTA finances change for the better.

Metropolitan Transportation Authority Chairman Joe Lhota said Wednesday that there are no current options that would save riders from a 2019 fare hike, under a deal the governor and lawmakers cut in 2009 to raise prices every other year.

When asked if there was a scenario he could commit to where fares would stay flat, Lhota said “at the present time, no.”

MTA board members want to avoid another fare and toll hike, and they see a congestion-pricing fee in Manhattan’s business center that’s being debated in Albany as the answer to the agency’s budget crunch.

They had considered formally approving a resolution calling for congestion pricing, but it never came up for a vote.

“There was question as to whether we as a board should be voting on that,” said Scott Rechler, a congestion-pricing supporter. “We have a responsibility to advocate, we have a responsibility to recognize the challenges that we are seeing as an agency.”

Polly Trottenberg, the city transportation commissioner and an MTA board member, said Mayor de Blasio has been skeptical of the Fix NYC proposal from a panel that Gov. Cuomo formed, but has “now expressed some openness.”

Trottenberg praised an Assembly plan that put fees on taxi and for-hire cars trips, like Uber, below 96th St.

“It’s something that can be implemented pretty quickly and produce, obviously, the revenue that this agency needs,” Trottenberg said.

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Didn't the state literally pass a law that requires them to hike any two years anyways? We've been around this rodeo before.

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There's only one way to stop the hike: give politicians hell in 2018. Put knives to their throats demanding our money back, or else. Because frankly I'm not paying one iota more for a grimy ass train that takes at least an hour to get anywhere. Fix the system, then raise our fares. It's time for Andy C to pay up.

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8 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Didn't the state literally pass a law that requires them to hike any two years anyways? We've been around this rodeo before.

That doesn't make it okay. The board admitted that hiking the fares constantly like this is unsustainable. Why should people continue to use a service that continues to worsen AND pay more for it? It's the ultimate slap in the face. With anything else, people would be seeking other choices, and to a degree we're seeing that with Uber, Lyft and so on.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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20 minutes ago, RR503 said:

There's only one way to stop the hike: give politicians hell in 2018. Put knives to their throats demanding our money back, or else. Because frankly I'm not paying one iota more for a grimy ass train that takes at least an hour to get anywhere. Fix the system, then raise our fares. It's time for Andy C to pay up.

No I'd first prefer pressure on the (MTA) to stop hiring corrupt vendors, THEN we can talk about monies being provided to the (MTA). We can't just keep giving money that goes down a black hole into the abyss.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That doesn't make it okay. The board admitted that hiking the fares constantly like this is unsustainable. Why should people continue to use a service that continues to worsen AND pay more for it? It's the ultimate slap in the face. With anything else, people would be seeking other choices, and to a degree we're seeing that with Uber, Lyft and so on.

Word up...They should be lowering the fares...:D...Delays all over the places,signal problems,equipment malfunctions,on time performance low,....But yet we gotta pay increases almost every year...:o....But its crazing how when its time for the (MTA) to add wkend service on a trunk to help another line  or provide extended service to a certain line...WHERE'S THE MONEY COMING FROM....The big question in my mind is where our money going too...<_<

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1 minute ago, biGC323232 said:

Word up...They should be lowering the fares...:D...Delays all over the places,signal problems,equipment malfunctions,on time performance low,....But yet we gotta pay increases almost every year...:o....But its crazing how when its time for the (MTA) to add wkend service on a trunk to help another line  or provide extended service to a certain line...WHERE'S THE MONEY COMING FROM....The big question in my mind is where our money going too...<_<

Well that's the thing, they aren't adding that much service.  They keep talking about how they have to meet demand, but they have become incredibly stingy with service.  What's going on with most subway lines on the weekends is absurd.  Even with the (Q) I find myself waiting a good 10 minutes on weekends, and then when a train comes, it's packed.  The days of expecting to get on a subway or bus and get a seat seem to be over.  You should be happy if you can get on and that is the God knows truth.  This is why we'll see more people switching to Uber, Lyft and perhaps the express bus where possible for a more comfortable, sane ride.  

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Pass out flyers to commuters. Let them know who is really responsible for fare hikes any why. I will volunteer my graphics design services if someone can come up with a sane list of facts (with references). Too many people are in the dark. I’ve never had a conversation with a straphanger who started complaining about all the wrong things.

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3 minutes ago, CenSin said:

Pass out flyers to commuters. Let them know who is really responsible for fare hikes any why. I will volunteer my graphics design services if someone can come up with a sane list of facts (with references). Too many people are in the dark. I’ve never had a conversation with a straphanger who started complaining about all the wrong things.

The other thing that I want to see happen is enforcement of the fare.  We have too many people not paying, and this whole feign of ignorance BS has to stop.  People want to ride the subway, bus and express bus and then act like they don't know what the fare is.  You either have the fare or get off.  If your card is faulty that's a different story.  I'm just talking about people that dip or swipe or don't have the fare on their card.  

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4 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The other thing that I want to see happen is enforcement of the fare.  We have too many people not paying, and this whole feign of ignorance BS has to stop.  People want to ride the subway, bus and express bus and then act like they don't know what the fare is.  You either have the fare or get off.  If your card is faulty that's a different story.  I'm just talking about people that dip or swipe or don't have the fare on their card.  

Just the other day while i was waiting for the (4) at fulton st i saw like at least 10 teenagers...One paid and then opened the gate to let the rest in...I was just smdh...I mean dam with the technology we have nowadays hiding camaras could easily catch farebeaters and this was at one of if not the busiest downtown station...I could only imagine how farebeating goes on thru out the system....

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12 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

Just the other day while i was waiting for the (4) at fulton st i saw like at least 10 teenagers...One paid and then opened the gate to let the rest in...I was just smdh...I mean dam with the technology we have nowadays hiding camaras could easily catch farebeaters and this was at one of if not the busiest downtown station...I could only imagine how farebeating goes on thru out the system....

Spanking new, renovated multi-billion-dollar hub, with a huge amount of traffic going through, …but with no law enforcement present to patrol the premises?

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17 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

Just the other day while i was waiting for the (4) at fulton st i saw like at least 10 teenagers...One paid and then opened the gate to let the rest in...I was just smdh...I mean dam with the technology we have nowadays hiding camaras could easily catch farebeaters and this was at one of if not the busiest downtown station...I could only imagine how farebeating goes on thru out the system....

Well bus operators are told not to challenge people who don't have the fare, and people know this so on the local buses, they just get on and walk right past the operator or give a sob story.  This is especially true in the South Bronx and on Staten Island.  On the express bus, they either feign ignorance or they really believe that they can somehow use their $32 unlimited Metrocard on an express bus where the fare is $6.50 and then they argue about it with the driver.  I see it all of the time on the BxM1 buses via Inwood, which holds up the entire bus and then eventually the driver waives the person (or persons) on.  Last Saturday I got on a BxM1.  As soon as I dip, here's this obnoxious lady hounding me about not $6.50 but $13.00 to pay for her and her husband or boyfriend.  I immediately shut her down and said, nope, this is an unlimited card.  She did the same thing all the way down to Inwood, and not one person had $13.00 on their card or they had a half fare senior pass or an unlimited express bus pass like me, so guess what? They rode for free.  And this was not an empty bus. It was quite crowded for a 19:15 trip to Manhattan. That's just on one trip.  

On the other hand, in neighborhoods like mine, it's almost impossible to get a Metrocard because the nearest subway is a schlepp, the machines often times are broken and the one or two stores that carry Metrocards are usually out of them, so you can't expect people to pay when you make it impossible for them to do so. I've been on my elected officials about this because God help me if I don't reload my card in Manhattan.  A 20 minute walk down to 242nd street and then back up various hills and I have to hope that one of the three run down machines work.  Ridiculous. If not then it's on to 238th which only has one lousy MVM and that one is usually out too, so I usually try my luck at 231st and Broadway, but that's a lot of work and time just to fill a Metrocard.  

It's not a safe bet in Manhattan either.  I've been in various stations in Manhattan where the MVMs are a mess as well.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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3 minutes ago, CenSin said:

Spanking new, renovated multi-billion-dollar hub, with a huge amount of traffic going through, …but with no law enforcement present to patrol the premises?

What was even more funny is that 2 of them had pitbulls with them...Had ppl on the platform nealy about to fall off the platform to avoid contact with the dogs...<_<...All i kept saying in my head is where the transit police at to ticket these guys...

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2 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

What was even more funny is that 2 of them had pitbulls with them...Had ppl on the platform nealy about to fall off the platform to avoid contact with the dogs...<_<...All i kept saying in my head is where the transit police at to ticket these guys...

That's another thing that's been annoying. What is with these people walking with their dogs into the subways? I got off of the BxM2 this morning at 63rd and Broadway, made a stop and then went to get the subway at Columbus Circle to run another errand. As I go to swipe my Metrocard, here is this lady next to me with her and her dog (a decent sized one not in any carrier or anything).  Those dogs are supposed to be in carriers.  <_< On top of that the dog was hairy and had hair flying all over the place. I'm sure that must've been a lovely ride on the subway for whoever had to ride with that dog.

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1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's another thing that's been annoying. What is with these people walking with their dogs into the subways? I got off of the BxM2 this morning at 63rd and Broadway, made a stop and then went to get the subway at Columbus Circle to run another errand. As I go to swipe my Metrocard, here is this lady next to me with her and her dog (a decent sized one not in any carrier or anything).  Those dogs are supposed to be in carriers.  <_< On top of that the dog was hairy and had hair flying all over the place. I'm sure that must've been a lovely ride on the subway for whoever had to ride with that dog.

I blame hipsters for popularizing "Bring your Dog to Work, then let that canine piss and sh!t all over the damn place and expect everyone to step over/around it or clean it up."

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7 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Well bus operators are told not to challenge people who don't have the fare, and people know this so on the local buses, they just get on and walk right past the operator. This is especially true in the South Bronx and on Staten Island.  On the express bus, they either feign ignorance or they really believe that they can somehow use their $32 unlimited Metrocard on an express bus where the fare is $6.50 and then they argue about it with the driver.  I see it all of the time on the BxM1 buses via Inwood, which holds up the entire bus and then eventually the driver waives the person on.  Last Saturday I got on a BxM1.  As soon as I dip, here's this obnoxious lady hounding me about not $6.50 but $13.00 to pay for her and her husband.  I immediately shut her down and said, nope, this is an unlimited card.  She did the same thing all the way down to Inwood, and not one person had $13.00 on their card or they had a half fare senior pass or an unlimited express bus pass like me, so guess what? They rode for free. That's just on one trip.  

On the other hand, in neighborhoods like mine, it's almost impossible to get a Metrocard because the nearest subway is a schlepp, the machines often times are broken and the one or two stores that carry Metrocards are usually out of them, so you can't expect people to pay when you make it impossible for them to do so. I've been on my elected officials about this because God help me if I don't reload my card in Manhattan.  A 20 minute walk down to 242nd street and then back and I have to hope that one of the three run down machines work.  Ridiculous. If not then it's on to 238th which only has one lousy MVM and that one is usually out too, so I usually try my luck at 231st and Broadway, but that's a lot of work and time just to fill a Metrocard.  

I have a cousin that operates out of Laguardia Depot...He told me most of the time when he goes thru that farebeating crap he lets his depot supervisor know...From time to time they will have a plancloths cop ride his bus to counter that...I mean i dont know how true that is but thats what he told me....Her and her husband..:D..Thats a new one...

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1 minute ago, biGC323232 said:

I have a cousin that operates out of Laguardia Depot...He told me most of the time when he goes thru that farebeating crap he lets his depot supervisor know...From time to time they will have a plancloths cop ride his bus to counter that...I mean i dont know how true that is but thats what he told me....Her and her husband..:D..Thats a new one...

They supposedly had the $13.00, but still they didn't pay. I mean if you know you're going to get the express bus, have the fare on your card.  A lot of people want to take the express bus on a whelm then don't have extra money on their card to do so.  

1 minute ago, Deucey said:

I blame hipsters for popularizing "Bring your Dog to Work, then let that canine piss and sh!t all over the damn place and expect everyone to step over/around it or clean it up."

The subways are already crowded enough as it is.  Not having those dogs in a carrier just makes things worse. No one wants to be around those dogs as you don't know if they bite or what.  The other big thing now is these huge strollers blocking the doors and the people with their damn bikes.  The craziest thing I saw of late was on the (6) train.  I go to get on at Grand Central, and this guy who I presume was homeless gets off of the car with a friggin' shopping cart.  I'm like WTF is going on here? 

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15 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Well bus operators are told not to challenge people who don't have the fare, and people know this so on the local buses, they just get on and walk right past the operator or give a sob story.  This is especially true in the South Bronx and on Staten Island.  On the express bus, they either feign ignorance or they really believe that they can somehow use their $32 unlimited Metrocard on an express bus where the fare is $6.50 and then they argue about it with the driver.  I see it all of the time on the BxM1 buses via Inwood, which holds up the entire bus and then eventually the driver waives the person (or persons) on.  Last Saturday I got on a BxM1.  As soon as I dip, here's this obnoxious lady hounding me about not $6.50 but $13.00 to pay for her and her husband or boyfriend.  I immediately shut her down and said, nope, this is an unlimited card.  She did the same thing all the way down to Inwood, and not one person had $13.00 on their card or they had a half fare senior pass or an unlimited express bus pass like me, so guess what? They rode for free.  And this was not an empty bus. It was quite crowded for a 19:15 trip to Manhattan. That's just on one trip.  

On the other hand, in neighborhoods like mine, it's almost impossible to get a Metrocard because the nearest subway is a schlepp, the machines often times are broken and the one or two stores that carry Metrocards are usually out of them, so you can't expect people to pay when you make it impossible for them to do so. I've been on my elected officials about this because God help me if I don't reload my card in Manhattan.  A 20 minute walk down to 242nd street and then back up various hills and I have to hope that one of the three run down machines work.  Ridiculous. If not then it's on to 238th which only has one lousy MVM and that one is usually out too, so I usually try my luck at 231st and Broadway, but that's a lot of work and time just to fill a Metrocard.  

It's not a safe bet in Manhattan either.  I've been in various stations in Manhattan where the MVMs are a mess as well.

This is called “black riding” in Europe. In those countries, there will be undercover operatives to check for fare evasion. However, I’ve also heard they skip over minorities/refugees because of fear of being accused of racism.

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22 minutes ago, CenSin said:

This is called “black riding” in Europe. In those countries, there will be undercover operatives to check for fare evasion. However, I’ve also heard they skip over minorities/refugees because of fear of being accused of racism.

lol... I was checked numerous times when I lived in Italy and didn't have a problem.  I even remember one morning coming back from grocery shopping outside of Florence, getting on in the back at the first stop, stamping my ticket, and then immediately being checked by an inspector who appeared to have come out of nowhere.  Crazy $hit for sure. 

What I noticed is some people will buy a ticket for the local bus (in Italy you would buy them from "tabacchi" stands, which are similar to our corner stores) or you can get them at big transit stations.  Well those people will buy the ticket and then try to run to stamp theirs when they see an inspector coming this way they can save the ticket and ride numerous times without paying, and when they're caught and can't get to a machine, then they go "Oh! I was just going to stamp my ticket, but the bus is too crowded, or some BS line".  The rule is you're supposed to stamp your ticket immediately upon getting on the bus, and there are two to three ticket machines located on each bus. The artics usually have one stamp machine near the driver, another towards the middle and one near the rear of the bus.  

In Italy and elsewhere, they use the "honor" system for everything, not just the buses and trains (on the Intercity trains, you are supposed to to stamp your ticket BEFORE you get on the train - the stamp machines are located right on the platforms).  Even at the movie theatre they have the honor system, and I found it comical because people would always try to get over.

What I've found with SBS lines is when you have the Eagle Team going around enough, people are less likely to chance it, so they'll pay.  We need something like this for all lines.  The only people that don't pay are the ones that are too lazy or stupid to read and pay attention and when they are fined enough times, then they'll start paying attention.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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5 minutes ago, CenSin said:

This is called “black riding” in Europe. In those countries, there will be undercover operatives to check for fare evasion. However, I’ve also heard they skip over minorities/refugees because of fear of being accused of racism.

Fares work a bit differently in Europe though, they don't have turnstiles and in some cities if you are a resident you get a free transit pass anyway.

I think we are barking up the wrong tree here with enforcement of fares. Even if the (MTA) somehow managed to get fare payment to 100% there still wouldn't be enough money. What we need is a serious shakedown of all the bookkeeping practices, and to cut down on reckless spending.

Right now we should be focusing on where the money goes, not where it comes from. 

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7 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

They supposedly had the $13.00, but still they didn't pay. I mean if you know you're going to get the express bus, have the fare on your card.  A lot of people want to take the express bus on a whelm then don't have extra money on their card to do so.  

The subways are already crowded enough as it is.  Not having those dogs in a carrier just makes things worse. No one wants to be around those dogs as you don't know if they bite or what.  The other big thing now is these huge strollers blocking the doors and the people with their damn bikes.  The craziest thing I saw of late was on the (6) train.  I go to get on at Grand Central, and this guy who I presume was homeless gets off of the car with a friggin' shopping cart.  I'm like WTF is going on here? 

Shopping Cart was their groceries in it....:D...You see that all the time on the (E)...Not just shopping carts but the whole kitchen sink...This where certain moneys and fare hikes should be going too...Enforcing much needed laws within our systems..not to be hiring corrupt vendors.....i also need to start seeing more police officers at more of these stations...Not just times sq and penn station cause thats where i see them the most...We still have this subway slashing going too.<_<..Lack of transit police leads to encouragement for criminals...But yet we paying more for these circumstances...

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3 minutes ago, kosciusko said:

Fares work a bit differently in Europe though, they don't have turnstiles and in some cities if you are a resident you get a free transit pass anyway.

I think we are barking up the wrong tree here with enforcement of fares. Even if the (MTA) somehow managed to get fare payment to 100% there still wouldn't be enough money. What we need is a serious shakedown of all the bookkeeping practices, and to cut down on reckless spending.

Right now we should be focusing on where the money goes, not where it comes from. 

I disagree. We need to focus on both. Fare collection doesn't cover all of the (MTA) 's costs, but it's absurd to insinuate that they aren't important.  They still cover a decent amount of their costs and they need to be collected.  It's like any other business. If you have customers that keep coming to your business and not paying for the product or services you offer, well eventually that starts to add up.  You can't just ignore that.  Those monies that are lost add up, and they have to be collected from elsewhere.  

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14 minutes ago, kosciusko said:

Fares work a bit differently in Europe though, they don't have turnstiles and in some cities if you are a resident you get a free transit pass anyway.

I think we are barking up the wrong tree here with enforcement of fares. Even if the (MTA) somehow managed to get fare payment to 100% there still wouldn't be enough money. What we need is a serious shakedown of all the bookkeeping practices, and to cut down on reckless spending.

Right now we should be focusing on where the money goes, not where it comes from. 

 

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@Deucey @Via Garibaldi 8

Yes ideally we should have both.

But what I'm trying to say is that the money lost from farebeating is a drop in the bucket compared to the money lost from corruption/incompetence.

Let's not forget the ski resorts :https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/nyregion/new-york-subway-system-failure-delays.html

And the construction companies and unions who gave Prince Andrew millions of dollars: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html

And the fights between Amtrak unions and (MTA) unions which led to an insane amount of excess spending: https://www.city-journal.org/html/fifteen-stories-under-14105.html

If faredodging was really such a big problem we would be hearing wayyy more about it.

Edited by kosciusko

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