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MTA: ‘You don’t need your money as much as we do.’


Deucey

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1 minute ago, kosciusko said:

@Deucey @Via Garibaldi 8

Yes ideally we should have both.

But what I'm trying to say is that the money lost from farebeating is a drop in the bucket compared to the money lost from corruption/incompetence.

Let's not forget the ski resorts :https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/nyregion/new-york-subway-system-failure-delays.html

And the construction companies and unions who gave Prince Andrew millions of dollars: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html

And the fights between Amtrak unions and (MTA) unions which led to an insane amount of excess spending: https://www.city-journal.org/html/fifteen-stories-under-14105.html

If faredodging was really such a big problem we would be hearing wayyy more about it.

It IS a big problem and the (MTA) does mention it.  We don't hear more about it because it gets swept under the rug as being part of the cost of doing business, and the paying public pays for it.  That's not ok.  This is part of why we're looking at fare increases every two years.

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6 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The (MTA) themselves.  All you have to do is do a Google search on the (MTA) and farebeating.  You obviously don't read the news that much.  We've even posted articles on it here in the past.  

I did and all that came up was about how it's being decriminalized.

It's your responsibility to source your own claims man.

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7 minutes ago, kosciusko said:

I did and all that came up was about how it's being decriminalized.

It's your responsibility to source your own claims man.

Well that means you don't know how to search. The information is widely available.  You can even search on here.  As I said you obviously live in a bubble.  

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11 minutes ago, kosciusko said:

I did and all that came up was about how it's being decriminalized.

It's your responsibility to source your own claims man.

All of these articles I just found less than a minute of doing a Google search <_<:

http://www.silive.com/news/2018/02/man_25_nabbed_for_assaulting_o.html

http://www.silive.com/news/2012/08/staten_island_advance_expose_o.html

http://www.silive.com/news/2012/05/brazen_bus_riders_dont_pay_the.html

One of numerous articles posted here:

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Way to win the argument I never made.

I never said that farebeating doesn't happen I said that the amount of money lost due to farebeating pales in comparison to the money lost due to incompetence of the people at the top.

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4 minutes ago, kosciusko said:

Way to win the argument I never made.

I never said that farebeating doesn't happen I said that the amount of money lost due to farebeating pales in comparison to the money lost due to incompetence of the people at the top.

You said you couldn't find information on fare beating and that if it was that big of a problem, we'd hear far more about it. Then you claimed I needed sources, so I found four articles on it in less than a minute.  As I said, it's a problem and it needs to be addressed.  

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16 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You said you couldn't find information on fare beating and that if it was that big of a problem, we'd hear far more about it. Then you claimed I needed sources, so I found four articles on it in less than a minute.  As I said, it's a problem and it needs to be addressed.  

By information I meant statistics, like how much money is lost due to fare beating, how many people beat the fare, etc.

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1 minute ago, kosciusko said:

By information I meant statistics, like how much money is lost due to fare beating, how many people beat the fare, etc.

If you bothered to look at the links I posted, the information is in at least one of them.

Quote

Fare-beating on the subway and buses is estimated to cost the MTA roughly $100 million a year. On buses, drivers are advised to avoid confrontation with people who refuse to pay.

  $100 million dollars over a 5 year period is half a billion dollars, hardly anything to scoff at.

Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/mta-task-force-fails-stop-fare-beaters-buses-article-1.3372943

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1 minute ago, kosciusko said:

By information I meant statistics, like how much money is lost due to fare beating, how many people beat the fare, etc.

More than you know..statistics you not really gonna see....But I see it almost everyday in different methods if i decide to use the subway....Let alone the bus...I dont see it that often on the bus like i see it on the subway...

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6 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

If you bothered to look at the links I posted, the information is in at least one of them.

  $100 million dollars over a 5 year period is half a billion dollars, hardly anything to scoff at.

Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/mta-task-force-fails-stop-fare-beaters-buses-article-1.3372943

100 million a year...Wow they actually know how much their being beat out of revenue year in and out and still not trying to do anything about that...I guess raise the fares should cover that...<_<

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4 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

100 million a year...Wow they actually know how much their being beat out of revenue year in and out and still not trying to do anything about that...I guess raise the fares should cover that...<_<

That's my point... You and I see people beating the fare daily.  In my mind that couple I mentioned earlier that had $13.00 in cash but didn't pay would be counted in the fare beating stats.  That's $13.00 the (MTA) didn't get on just one trip, and coming back I believe there was another person that didn't pay their $6.50, so that's $19.50 just on two bus rides alone in one day.  

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16 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's my point... You and I see people beating the fare daily.  In my mind that couple I mentioned earlier that had $13.00 in cash but didn't pay would be counted in the fare beating stats.  That's $13.00 the (MTA) didn't get on just one trip, and coming back I believe there was another person that didn't pay their $6.50, so that's $19.50 just on two bus rides alone in one day.  

Granted, folks have always fare jumped in this city - even going back to the days of tokens, but I wonder if that $100 million stat can be correlated with a Laffer Curve - i.e. "Would it be so high if fares were lower?"

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11 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Granted, folks have always fare jumped in this city - even going back to the days of tokens, but I wonder if that $100 million stat can be correlated with a Laffer Curve - i.e. "Would it be so high if fares were lower?"

I'm not so sure it would make a difference.  In Italy the local bus fare was 1€ when I lived there, and people still tried to beat the system regularly because why should they pay when they can ride for free?  I've even seen people throw in a dime here on the local buses, as if that's going to do something.  The difference today is more people are emboldened not to pay. 

Not that long ago, on the local buses, the driver would refuse to move until you came and paid and you were made an example of because he'd get on the loud speaker and let everyone know why the bus was being held up.  Now drivers are told not to confront riders. Just press the F6 button or whatever it is and keep it moving.  If you've ever used the Bx6 bus, at a number of stops you'll have the majority of the people boarding NOT pay and a minority dipping their card.  When I tutored briefly in Castle Hill I'd see this on the Bx36 too before I stopped using it and just would walk over to the BxM8.  The first pick-up that bus makes going to Manhattan... You should see how many people out of the packs actually pay.  It's pretty pathetic.

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5 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'm not so sure it would make a difference.  In Italy the local bus fare was 1€ when I lived there, and people still tried to beat the system regularly because why should they pay when they can ride for free?  I've even seen people throw in a dime here on the local buses, as if that's going to do something.  The difference today is more people are emboldened not to pay. 

Not that long ago, on the local buses, the driver would refuse to move until you came and paid and you were made an example of because he'd get on the loud speaker and let everyone know why the bus was being held up.  Now drivers are told not to confront riders. Just press the F6 button or whatever it is and keep it moving.  If you've ever used the Bx6 bus, at a number of stops you'll have the majority of the people boarding NOT pay and a minority dipping their card.  When I tutored briefly in Castle Hill I'd see this on the Bx36 too before I stopped using it and just would walk over to the BxM8.  The first pick-up that bus makes going to Manhattan... You should see how many people out of the packs actually pay.  It's pretty pathetic.

The most egregious of it is getting on any bus at St George - all of us just off the ferry standing in line waiting to board the bus when the fare jumpers cut in front of us and walk through without even looking at the driver - let alone dipping a metro card.

I'm all liberal about helping out folks that don't have anything, and I'm even for lower fares since I see a bit of Laffer Curve in (MTA) fare structure. But I can't advocate hard for it for these folks that JDGAF. I CAN advocate for cops to be more proactive in enforcing fare payment. #BRINGBACKNYCTAPOLICE

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2 minutes ago, Deucey said:

The most egregious of it is getting on any bus at St George - all of us just off the ferry standing in line waiting to board the bus when the fare jumpers cut in front of us and walk through without even looking at the driver - let alone dipping a metro card.

I'm all liberal about helping out folks that don't have anything, and I'm even for lower fares since I see a bit of Laffer Curve in (MTA) fare structure. But I can't advocate hard for it for these folks that JDGAF. I CAN advocate for cops to be more proactive in enforcing fare payment. #BRINGBACKNYCTAPOLICE

Yeah you see not that long ago on Staten Island, those people weren't just walking by the farebox because it wasn't tolerated.  They'd get on at the ferry with a story.  Most drivers wouldn't stand for it, especially if it was a reoccurring thing.  One night I get on the S48 to go home (this was before I graduated college and got fed up and switched permanently to the express bus).  A guy gets on and refuses to pay and the driver refuses to leave.  People in the front go over to the guy.  Two or three people take him and wrestle him off of the bus.  The driver starts up and takes off.

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1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

If you bothered to look at the links I posted, the information is in at least one of them.

  $100 million dollars over a 5 year period is half a billion dollars, hardly anything to scoff at.

Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/mta-task-force-fails-stop-fare-beaters-buses-article-1.3372943

Fair enough, that's way more than I had imagined. 

But still, only a fraction of the billions squandered due to corruption and incompetence. 

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30 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah you see not that long ago on Staten Island, those people weren't just walking by the farebox because it wasn't tolerated.  They'd get on at the ferry with a story.  Most drivers wouldn't stand for it, especially if it was a reoccurring thing.  One night I get on the S48 to go home (this was before I graduated college and got fed up and switched permanently to the express bus).  A guy gets on and refuses to pay and the driver refuses to leave.  People in the front go over to the guy.  Two or three people take him and wrestle him off of the bus.  The driver starts up and takes off.

Wrestle with him...:o..I'll let the police handle that...:D....Would if this guy pulled out a gun or a knife.....Ive been on buses where as the driver wouldn't leave until ppl fare was paid... Call me crazy but maybe drivers should get told to do that... maybe that will slightly help the fare beating on buses... I know it delays everyone else but eventually farebeaters will get the point...                

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1 minute ago, biGC323232 said:

Wrestle with him...:o..I'll let the police handle that...:D....Would if this guy pulled out a gun or a knife.....Ive been on buses where as the driver wouldn't leave until ppl fare was paid... Call me crazy but maybe drivers should get told to do that... maybe that will slightly help the fare beating on buses... I know it delays everyone else but eventually farebeaters will get the point...                

Yep.  He was adamant that he wasn't getting off.  The driver was adamant that he wasn't moving unless he paid, and no one wanted to pay for him, so people got up and told him to either pay or get off.  When he refused they started grabbing him and literally wrestled him off of the bus. It was pretty funny.  He attempted to get back on too, but the driver slammed the door and kept going. LOL

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38 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yep.  He was adamant that he wasn't getting off.  The driver was adamant that he wasn't moving unless he paid, and no one wanted to pay for him, so people got up and told him to either pay or get off.  When he refused they started grabbing him and literally wrestled him off of the bus. It was pretty funny.  He attempted to get back on too, but the driver slammed the door and kept going. LOL

Well now they have that button they press to call it a "No fare" or something. So they made fare evasion one of the things drivers don't have to worry about. I'm not exactly mad about that, if it's in the interest of driver safety. But if it's just "we're accepting reality", then why would they think they could change corrupt organizations' behavior by contracting with them while not thinking they could change customer behavior by putting up more signs and a more in your face marketing blitz (like that pole dancing thing they had a couple years ago)?

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1 minute ago, Deucey said:

Well now they have that button they press to call it a "No fare" or something. So they made fare evasion one of the things drivers don't have to worry about. I'm not exactly mad about that, if it's in the interest of driver safety. But if it's just "we're accepting reality", then why would they think they could change corrupt organizations' behavior by contracting with them while not thinking they could change customer behavior by putting up more signs and a more in your face marketing blitz (like that pole dancing thing they had a couple years ago)?

I think it had to do with the union making a stink about drivers risking their lives for $2.25 (at that time).  Once that happened, that's when the (MTA) came out with an official policy if you will.

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5 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I think it had to do with the union making a stink about drivers risking their lives for $2.25 (at that time).  Once that happened, that's when the (MTA) came out with an official policy if you will.

I worked two days in a Mickey D's in the 90s and the store got robbed while I was at the register. Manager mad I gave up the money.

Like this fool really thought I should risk my life for $4.75/hr (CA min wage back then) because theft is wrong? My reply: "You'll be aight without that $50 in the till, and I'll find me another job."

So I get the Union on safety over collecting that $2.25 then.

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