City Never Sleeps, Yet Number of Trains at Off-Peak Hours Decline

[biGC323232]

13 minutes ago, Lance said:

To add on to @CenSin's earlier posts, riders wanted more local service during the late nights. Prior to 1999 when the  ran express and the terminated at 125 Street, service along both IRT branches were scheduled at 20 minute intervals overall with only the and  locals.  Riders would rather have local-only service over long waits for the one local while express service flies by, which is why the was the latest conversion a couple of years ago. The only way you'll justify the restoration of late night express service along the Manhattan branches (6th Avenue notwithstanding) is by adding more service to the lines. Sticking with the numbered lines, that would mean extending the  and  from their present terminals, which I cannot see as a justifiable expense.

Well i guess riders wanted extra lcl service along 4 av between 36st -Atlantic now there's 3 late night services over there....I didnt really see a justifible expense when the  got extended to SF...Do those 4 stations justify 3 late night services???  trains should serve bowling green over the  serving SF...And i know there not enough to justify it in most minds but ppl who does use it late nights(And there are ppl using it late nights) have a much harder time reaching manhattan  and vice versa from the eastside and dyre branch...Not only do you have to transfer to the  That transfer from the  to the  at 149-grand is no walk in the park forcing you many times to miss the connecting train...as appose of the  having a cross platform transfer for the  for the remainder of its trip...Thats just my thoughts...

[Deucey]

29 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

I didnt really see a justifible expense when the  got extended to SF...Do those 4 stations justify 3 late night services???

As a Staten Islander who drinks in Brooklyn,..

 

https://tenor.com/zavg.gif

[Lance]

3 hours ago, biGC323232 said:

Well i guess riders wanted extra lcl service along 4 av between 36st -Atlantic now there's 3 late night services over there....I didnt really see a justifible expense when the  got extended to SF...Do those 4 stations justify 3 late night services???  trains should serve bowling green over the  serving SF...And i know there not enough to justify it in most minds but ppl who does use it late nights(And there are ppl using it late nights) have a much harder time reaching manhattan  and vice versa from the eastside and dyre branch...Not only do you have to transfer to the  That transfer from the  to the  at 149-grand is no walk in the park forcing you many times to miss the connecting train...as appose of the  having a cross platform transfer for the  for the remainder of its trip...Thats just my thoughts...

The problem lies in the merges required to keep one of those lines as an express. The is automatically out as that would be a waste of a line, so that just leaves the and  as contenders here. Neither of which are viable without getting in the way of the other two services. Put the back on the express track and it would have to merge with the and to hit DeKalb Av. That is unless you want to remove all 6th Avenue service from that station. Make the the express and the trains would have to cross in front of the  and to hit Jay St for the Montague Tunnels.

As for comparable trips from far off distances, it isn't fair that Bay Ridge now has direct Manhattan service while Dyre still has to deal with the three-seat ride to get to Lexington Ave, but there is a difference in the two services. Whitehall St offers itself as a viable terminal for the extended shuttle, whereas the closest terminal for the without getting in the way of other services is Grand Central. 86 Street could work, but it's not really a terminal in the first place, so I'm not sure it would be feasible. Either way, it would be a much longer trip for the  than it currently is for the . Besides, if I recall correctly, the Dyre Ave shuttle gets barely any riders while the 4th Avenue shuttle actually does.

[checkmatechamp13]

On 3/26/2018 at 12:50 PM, N6 Limited said:

Can the conductors/towers use the countdown clocks to be more considerate/logical for these things?  For example, On Saturday, I was on an uptown  train pulling into 7th Ave / 53rd Street while an uptown  train was leaving. They couldn't hold the  train for an additional 15-30 seconds for connections when the next  train was almost 15 mins away? 

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How were the  running? Me personally, unless there's a real issue on the 8th Avenue Line, the most I'll do is take a local to 42nd Street, and from there I have the choice of the  to go up CPW. But then again, that's for a trip to West Harlem (for a trip to The Bronx, I guess I could see that backup route being better than waiting for the next or  , especially now that SubwayTime allows you to see gaps) .

[Deucey]

4 hours ago, biGC323232 said:

Well i guess riders wanted extra lcl service along 4 av between 36st -Atlantic now there's 3 late night services over there....I didnt really see a justifible expense when the  got extended to SF...Do those 4 stations justify 3 late night services???  trains should serve bowling green over the  serving SF...And i know there not enough to justify it in most minds but ppl who does use it late nights(And there are ppl using it late nights) have a much harder time reaching manhattan  and vice versa from the eastside and dyre branch...Not only do you have to transfer to the  That transfer from the  to the  at 149-grand is no walk in the park forcing you many times to miss the connecting train...as appose of the  having a cross platform transfer for the  for the remainder of its trip...Thats just my thoughts...

I'm pretty sure  was extended to Whitehall because a) service across the bridge is "difficult" overnight when you live north of the SIE, and was always behind  in making transfer connections.

So it's not equivalent to the three seat ride on  Dyre Shuttle, since there's almost always a  waiting, and a missed connection doesn't delay getting home by 1 hour like it does when one missed the  and subsequently the Ferry.

My "thing" is that because the subway is oriented towards super-long routings and running the trains local - along with the SRO tendency at night on lines crush loaded or SRO during the day, having an express train on the Eastside would be a nice perk from the days of yore when I and the cousins on the Concourse could go from Bowling Green to Jerome/167th is under 30 minutes. Right now, I loathe going above 14th St overnight because the train ride is too damned long, and the bus runs are too sparse. And I figure if overcrowding/SRO is a thing with overnight locals, perhaps timing express runs to meet with locals at specific stations in Manhattan would provide some "easing".

Like if a  were timed to make a cross-platform transfer with  or  overnight at 42nd St so folks on UES going back to the East Village, or vice versa, have a commute marginally longer than folks who board  or  after 42nd St bound for 125th St or Nevins St.

That's what I was thinking.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

53 minutes ago, Deucey said:

I'm pretty sure  was extended to Whitehall because a) service across the bridge is "difficult" overnight when you live north of the SIE, and was always behind  in making transfer connections.

So it's not equivalent to the three seat ride on  Dyre Shuttle, since there's almost always a  waiting, and a missed connection doesn't delay getting home by 1 hour like it does when one missed the  and subsequently the Ferry.

My "thing" is that because the subway is oriented towards super-long routings and running the trains local - along with the SRO tendency at night on lines crush loaded or SRO during the day, having an express train on the Eastside would be a nice perk from the days of yore when I and the cousins on the Concourse could go from Bowling Green to Jerome/167th is under 30 minutes. Right now, I loathe going above 14th St overnight because the train ride is too damned long, and the bus runs are too sparse. And I figure if overcrowding/SRO is a thing with overnight locals, perhaps timing express runs to meet with locals at specific stations in Manhattan would provide some "easing".

Like if a  were timed to make a cross-platform transfer with  or  overnight at 42nd St so folks on UES going back to the East Village, or vice versa, have a commute marginally longer than folks who board  or  after 42nd St bound for 125th St or Nevins St.

That's what I was thinking.

For those late night adventures I'd look into Uber.  I find after rush hour service is pretty iffy in terms of waits, let alone late nights.

[CenSin]

10 hours ago, biGC323232 said:

It does all that anyway....What i was saying was have it express the way it is now just merge with the   after atlantic....4av between 36 and atlantic really needs 3 services...

The point I’m making is return-on-investment. If the MTA makes the effort to serve DeKalb Avenue, it might as well serve 4 additional local stations since it has to go through merging pains anyway. That way, the effort is made for 5 local stations instead of just 1.

And those switches north of Atlantic Avenue–Barclays Center… avoid using them. They will slow down the train using them and all traffic behind the train. It would be faster to remain all local.

[biGC323232]

1 hour ago, CenSin said:

The point I’m making is return-on-investment. If the MTA makes the effort to serve DeKalb Avenue, it might as well serve 4 additional local stations since it has to go through merging pains anyway. That way, the effort is made for 5 local stations instead of just 1.

And those switches north of Atlantic Avenue–Barclays Center… avoid using them. They will slow down the train using them and all traffic behind the train. It would be faster to remain all local.

I get it.....I was only pointing that out cause of the extended  now to Manhattan...It's gotta be lovely being a 4 av resident...you'll get better service late nights than wkday peak and maybe some rush hours too..Depending on where you going of course....😁

[GreatOne2k]

14 hours ago, Deucey said:

I just wish they still had late night expresses in Manhattan.  and  really don't count unless you're going to Harlem on the West Side.

The  is express now late night on weekends (Friday-Sunday) in Manhattan (though temporary). Maybe that should be permanent, it also shows that MTA can run the , , and  on the same track during G.O.s

[Daniel The Cool]

12 hours ago, GreatOne2k said:

The  is express now late night on weekends (Friday-Sunday) in Manhattan (though temporary). Maybe that should be permanent, it also shows that MTA can run the , , and  on the same track during G.O.s

Not entirely true. During the  sharing the same track G.Os, the  headways has been cut. 

[N6 Limited]

On 3/27/2018 at 3:25 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

How were the  running? Me personally, unless there's a real issue on the 8th Avenue Line, the most I'll do is take a local to 42nd Street, and from there I have the choice of the  to go up CPW. But then again, that's for a trip to West Harlem (for a trip to The Bronx, I guess I could see that backup route being better than waiting for the next or  , especially now that SubwayTime allows you to see gaps) .

I got on the first train that arrived at Penn Station ( the  ) and I was going to the Bronx. While on the  I checked 7th Ave on SubwayTime for the next  train, and it said about 3 mins.  I forgot how far away the  or  were, but I had to catch the  anyway and neither of them would have gotten to Columbus Circle in time to catch the  I tried to catch (but missed anway)

[GreatOne2k]

11 hours ago, Daniel The Cool said:

Not entirely true. During the  sharing the same track G.Os, the  headways has been cut. 

 

The runs on 12 minute headways, not good, but still better than  on 20 minute headways, or no  train at all.