Whiny Manhattanites L train lawsuit: screw 225k ppl - how will we park our cars?!?!?!

[GojiMet86]

1 hour ago, rbrome said:

Pushing for cleaner busses is great. The MTA has been far too slow in adopting cleaner bus tech. You have some leverage there. Keep up the good work. 

With that said... realistically, any change on this point will be tiny, given how many total vehicles travel through that part of town every day. I'd say drop in the bucket, but it's more like half a drop. If the MTA says you're nitpicking, they have a point. 

What I strongly disagree with is the argument for fewer busses. Again, you need to move X number of people. What's the alternative?

Ferries are only an alternative to busses for moving people across the river. That's not 100% of anyone's commute. Ferries don't get people to 5th Ave. Ferries don't get people within walking distance of any operating Manhattan subway line. Where will ferries take people? TO A 14TH STREET SHUTTLE BUS. And if you think busses polute... Hoooo boy! You clearly have never been to a ferry terminal! 

 

Guys, don't bother, it's just ViaGaribaldi8 the whiny hypocrite and contrarian he is. 

May I remind people that while he talks about clean buses and reducing pollution, he almost certainly voted from Donald Trump and has made it clear that he loves Trump, whose administration has severly and proudly rolled back anti-pollution measures, and has talked about restarting the coal mining and steel industries.

You're not seeing him write to his politicians about the Administration's disastrous environmental policies, because "jobs" come first.

So clearly, a "clean" enivornment is the least of his concerns, and it can be easily compromised.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

 

Guys, don't bother, it's just ViaGaribaldi8 the whiny hypocrite and contrarian he is. 

May I remind people that while he talks about clean buses and reducing pollution, he almost certainly voted from Donald Trump and has made it clear that he loves Trump, whose administration has severly and proudly rolled back anti-pollution measures, and has talked about restarting the coal mining and steel industries.

You're not seeing him write to his politicians about the Administration's disastrous environmental policies, because "jobs" come first.

So clearly, a "clean" enivornment is the least of his concerns, and it can be easily compromised.

Trump has nothing to do with this, so nice of you to bring this off-topic.  Just because someone votes for a candidate doesn't mean they support EVERYTHING they do. The pot calling the kettle black.  This is the same individual that claims he's so against injustices and hates those who he feels is "privileged ", but doesn't know what it's like to deal with any real hardships coming from a family with a silver spoon.  Oh the irony...  One big façade...

[GojiMet86]

Just now, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Just because someone votes for a candidate doesn't mean they support EVERYTHING they do. The pot calling the kettle black.  This is the same individual that claims he's so against injustices, but doesn't know what it's like to deal with any of them coming from a family with a silver spoon.  

 

But it's clearly not your top priority.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, GojiMet86 said:

 

But it's clearly not your top priority.

Speak for yourself.  My position on the environment is clear, which is what we're talking about here, not Trump.  Let's try to focus (I know that's hard for you) and stay on topic. 

[GojiMet86]

11 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Speak for yourself.  My position on the environment is clear, which is what we're talking about here, not Trump.  Let's try to focus (I know that's hard for you) and stay on topic. 

 

I am on topic. One day you want to bring back jobs for in the heavy-pollution coal and steel industries, but the next day you claim to love the environment and clean buses.

So either there's hypocrisy there....

...Or you're making a bigger deal out this, which is usually the case.

 

 

About 42% (about 2400) of the MTA's bus fleet (about 5800) is hybrid/CNG. The other 58% is diesel.

Out of that 58% diesel fleet, almost a third are just the express buses (1019 of them, last count).

Out of those LOCAL diesel buses, only about 500 are older than 2005, while the rest are the new LFS/XD40/LFSA/XD60 buses.

Those old rickety RTS and D60HF buses make up 8% of the fleet.

EIGHT. PERCENT.

 

 

There will be 368 XD40, 108 XN40 CNG, 150-something LFSA, 108 XD60 and some 250 LFS buses coming in, coming to replace the old gum-filled D60 New Flyers and RTS buses, AND the older HYBRID buses.

Imagine that, not just the older high floors, but even the older HYBRIDS.

And that's without mentioning the electric and hybrid demonstrators.

 

 

All within the two next years.

 

 

So as usual, in regards with you and the Williamsburg party, this is being made into a bigger deal than it should be.

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, GojiMet86 said:

 

Guys, don't bother, it's just ViaGaribaldi8 the whiny hypocrite and contrarian he is. 

May I remind people that while he talks about clean buses and reducing pollution, he almost certainly voted from Donald Trump and has made it clear that he loves Trump, whose administration has severly and proudly rolled back anti-pollution measures, and has talked about restarting the coal mining and steel industries.

You're not seeing him write to his politicians about the Administration's disastrous environmental policies, because "jobs" come first.

So clearly, a "clean" enivornment is the least of his concerns, and it can be easily compromised.

I don’t like his Trump support, but @Via Garibaldi 8 is my buddy, and it’s extremely unfair and simultaneously hypocritical to bash him for picking this pathological liar and being lower than pond scum because his half his platform aligned with VG8’s priorities when the bulk of us Obama supporters liked or loved his platform and works while hating his drone policy.

Add to that, there is a case “states’ rights” conservatives can make about pollution and environmental protection being a local issue rather than a federal one (albeit not convincingly in my eyes, given the GOP’s history on the issue since Nixon created the EPA and the subsequent purging of the liberals from that party, along with Agent Orange’s attempt to get rid of the California Air Resources Board).

People do deserve the benefit of nuanced positions - even when where they give the nuance favor over the rest of the bullshit.

[GojiMet86]

2 minutes ago, Deucey said:

I don’t like his Trump support, but @Via Garibaldi 8 is my buddy, and it’s extremely unfair and simultaneously hypocritical to bash him for picking this pathological liar and being lower than pond scum because his half his platform aligned with VG8’s priorities when the bulk of us Obama supporters liked or loved his platform and works while hating his drone policy.

 

Your buddy always makes some very stupid arguments, though.

It is very fair to bash his hypocrisy.

No apologies from me.

[Lance]

Honestly guys, leave the political nonsense out of this. It is neither helpful nor relevant to this discussion.

Also, is it just me or is this becoming a circlejerk?

[Deucey]

Just now, Lance said:

Honestly guys, leave the political nonsense out of this. It is neither helpful nor relevant to this discussion.

Also, is it just me or is this becoming a circlejerk?

One nice thing about NYCTF: we never see Godwin's rule evoked.

(Or do I just not pay enough attention?)

[GojiMet86]

Just now, Lance said:

Honestly guys, leave the political nonsense out of this. It is neither helpful nor relevant to this discussion.

Also, is it just me or is this becoming a circlejerk?

 

When has it NOT been a circlejerk or a political debate?

[Deucey]

6 hours ago, GojiMet86 said:

 

Your buddy always makes some very stupid arguments, though.

It is very fair to bash his hypocrisy.

No apologies from me.

Didn’t ask you to apologize nor agree. Just pointing out the relevance and reminding of the mote and beam parable.

[Wallyhorse]

On 4/3/2018 at 11:39 PM, Deucey said:

My favorite part:

1) You live in Manhattan, where there’s no such thing as quiet.

2) You live by bars and the  so noisy hipsters and drunks make noise all night

3) More take  to Manhattan than residents take  elsewhere. Kwitcherbitchin. If it wasn’t broken then it wouldn’t need extraordinary measures to fix it.

What this is to me is why I originally proposed what I did of an shuttle from 1st-8th Avenue:

The concern restricting 14th Street to bus traffic would result in many motorists, especially from New Jersey who can't or refuse to use PATH or NJT to get into Manhattan clogging up the surrounding streets.  THAT to me is the real problem. 

[Deucey]

11 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

What this is to me is why I originally proposed what I did of an shuttle from 1st-8th Avenue:

The concern restricting 14th Street to bus traffic would result in many motorists, especially from New Jersey who can't or refuse to use PATH or NJT to get into Manhattan clogging up the surrounding streets.  THAT to me is the real problem. 

The only problem with that is there's no redundancy to  so there'd be no way for trains to get off the Canarsie line to get serviced in the shops. So for it to work you'd have to build new trackage and tunnels to connect it to 8th or 6th Av - which then would've needed environmental reviews and taken years.

Not that it shouldn't be done, but because feet were dragged between Sandy and start of replacement work (7 years, IIRC), the tunnel would've rusted and collapsed before they finished the EIR for the new trackage.

[itmaybeokay]

What they really need to do is invent a hovercraft that is powered by the hot air being blown on either side of a plan. Wait wait, hear me out: 

Every time the MTA has to pursue a disruptive fix to a problem, people complain about the disruption, and then they offer a mitigative strategy, and then there are opposing complaints to that mitigative strategy. 

I posit, that with carefully constructed disruptions and mitigative strategies the opposing forces could be held at equilibrium, and the area of stasis in between would be at the center of converging forces sufficient to contain a self-sustaining fusion reaction, not unlike a Tokamak or the ITER. Subsequently, the energy from this reaction could sustain the power consumption of the subway for decades, dramatically lowering electric bills. 

Seriously though - if half as much community effort were put into mobilizing long term projects that will actually help things as was mobilizing to thwart already deferred maintenance everything would be so much better for everyone. 

[Deucey]

1 minute ago, itmaybeokay said:

What they really need to do is invent a hovercraft that is powered by the hot air being blown on either side of a plan. Wait wait, hear me out: 

Every time the MTA has to pursue a disruptive fix to a problem, people complain about the disruption, and then they offer a mitigative strategy, and then there are opposing complaints to that mitigative strategy. 

I posit, that with carefully constructed disruptions and mitigative strategies the opposing forces could be held at equilibrium, and the area of stasis in between would be at the center of converging forces sufficient to contain a self-sustaining fusion reaction, not unlike a Tokamak or the ITER. Subsequently, the energy from this reaction could sustain the power consumption of the subway for decades, dramatically lowering electric bills. 

Seriously though - if half as much community effort were put into mobilizing long term projects that will actually help things as was mobilizing to thwart already deferred maintenance everything would be so much better for everyone. 

You gotta remember an important thing:

Americans like to complain about every f**king thing.

 

(I'm not ignorant of the irony).

[Wallyhorse]

2 minutes ago, Deucey said:

The only problem with that is there's no redundancy to  so there'd be no way for trains to get off the Canarsie line to get serviced in the shops. So for it to work you'd have to build new trackage and tunnels to connect it to 8th or 6th Av - which then would've needed environmental reviews and taken years.

Not that it shouldn't be done, but because feet were dragged between Sandy and start of replacement work (7 years, IIRC), the tunnel would've rusted and collapsed before they finished the EIR for the new trackage.

The way I would have done it would have been this:

There would be eight four-car sets of trains that would be used for a 1st-8th Avenue shuttle.  Only a maximum of three such trains would be in use at any one time, with the line single-tracked at 1st and 3rd Avenues as the area between those two stations would be used to store the cars not in use (there would be eight sets there knowing that inevitably there would be a problem with at least 1-2 sets of cars over time).  

Every 6-8 weeks, one of the tunnels is opened up so diesel trains could come in and swap in/out cars for maintenance as needed.

Once ONE of the tunnels is finished, that tunnel is used for LIMITED through service while the shuttle service and work on the other tunnel continues.

This probably would eliminate a lot of concerns of those on 14th Street, especially if the shuttle buses from Brooklyn ran to 1st and 3rd Avenues for people to be able to transfer to the shuttle there. 

On 4/4/2018 at 7:22 PM, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Not every station CAN be made accessible. Nobody though about such things 100+ years ago when they designed the stations. That's why the Eastern Paralyzed Veterans Association worked with the to come up with the list of 100 "key" stations back in the 1990s. 

Should the entire subway system be shut down and rebuilt all at once?

Right.  The disabled were looked at MUCH differently in the 1890's-1910's when much of the planning took place.

[biGC323232]

37 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

The way I would have done it would have been this:

There would be eight four-car sets of trains that would be used for a 1st-8th Avenue shuttle.  Only a maximum of three such trains would be in use at any one time, with the line single-tracked at 1st and 3rd Avenues as the area between those two stations would be used to store the cars not in use (there would be eight sets there knowing that inevitably there would be a problem with at least 1-2 sets of cars over time).  

Every 6-8 weeks, one of the tunnels is opened up so diesel trains could come in and swap in/out cars for maintenance as needed.

Once ONE of the tunnels is finished, that tunnel is used for LIMITED through service while the shuttle service and work on the other tunnel continues.

This probably would eliminate a lot of concerns of those on 14th Street, especially if the shuttle buses from Brooklyn ran to 1st and 3rd Avenues for people to be able to transfer to the shuttle there. 

Right.  The disabled were looked at MUCH differently in the 1890's-1910's when much of the planning took place.

They not gonna do all that just to keep 14st ppl happy....Only if the canarsie line was built  to connect to the 8 av line..Yes maybe shuttle trains would be better than buses...Under this current setup shuttle trains not happening... 

[kosciusko]

3 hours ago, itmaybeokay said:

What they really need to do is invent a hovercraft that is powered by the hot air being blown on either side of a plan. Wait wait, hear me out: 

Every time the MTA has to pursue a disruptive fix to a problem, people complain about the disruption, and then they offer a mitigative strategy, and then there are opposing complaints to that mitigative strategy. 

I posit, that with carefully constructed disruptions and mitigative strategies the opposing forces could be held at equilibrium, and the area of stasis in between would be at the center of converging forces sufficient to contain a self-sustaining fusion reaction, not unlike a Tokamak or the ITER. Subsequently, the energy from this reaction could sustain the power consumption of the subway for decades, dramatically lowering electric bills. 

Seriously though - if half as much community effort were put into mobilizing long term projects that will actually help things as was mobilizing to thwart already deferred maintenance everything would be so much better for everyone. 

Better yet, just replace the entire Subway with a system of catapults and nets to launch people around the city without expending any electricity. 

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, kosciusko said:

Better yet, just replace the entire Subway with a system of catapults and nets to launch people around the city without expending any electricity. 

We could try Beach’s pneumatic tube again.

It works in New New York

[CenSin]

On 4/5/2018 at 2:46 PM, Deucey said:

One nice thing about NYCTF: we never see Godwin's rule evoked.

(Or do I just not pay enough attention?)

Nazis. Literally Hitler.