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Dannny

Another great service day...

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The Subways Melted Down Real Good (Again) This Morning

By: Aaron Gordon 

 

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Only the 1, 4, 5, 6, A, C, D, E, F, G, L, M, N, Q, R, and W lines experienced delays today.

 

You may have looked at your weather app when you got up this morning and noticed the forecast for tomorrow and Saturday is in the 70s and and sunny. Woo-hoo! Spring is finally here! With a little bounce in your step, you headed off to work anticipating the glorious weekend.

And then you went to take the subway, which this morning was experiencing delays only on the 1, 4, 5, 6, A, C, D, E, F, G, L, M, N, Q, R, and W lines.

The biggest problem was on the A, C, F, and G lines, which, according to the official NYCT Twitter account, were delayed thanks to an “altercation on an A train at High St.” (with weapons!) that required a police investigation. But that wasn’t all. Apparently, a small plague has descended upon our great city, as sick passengers held up trains at Eighth Avenue and Myrtle-Wyckoff on the L, plus 86th Street on the 4/5. Throw in some signal problems on the N/Q/R/W at Herald Square, a dash of an unruly customer on the 14th Street 6 train platform, signal problems at Parkchester, an M train with mechanical problems at Steinway Street, a D train with mechanical problems at Bay 50th Street, a train with mechanical problems at Bergen Street on the F/G, and a 1 train with mechanical problems at 145 Street, and have you forgotten about the nice weather yet?

All in all, it was an impressive display of a system-wide meltdown masquerading as a morning commute. Aspiring commuters took to Twitter to lament their predicament.

If you’re looking for some kind of detailed explanation of precisely how everything went so wrong all at the same time, here’s the best I can do:

Every once in a while, it’s not only likely but quite predictable that when a system routinely experiences lots of delays, on some occasions it will experience a crap ton of delays all at the same time. In this case, the fight on the A train at High Street exacerbated an already bad commute where sick passengers and trains with mechanical problems were discharging entire trains onto already crowded platforms. High Street is a particularly inconvenient place to pick a fight, as there is no express track on that part of the line to which trains can be easily diverted. So the A/C had to be sent along the F line while the police investigated the fight. This resulted in at least some F trains being diverted to the G to relieve congestion along the F, as well as widespread delays on the A/C/E all the way up to Columbus Circle.

Because the A and C were diverted to the F line, that meant further delays for the B, D, and M as congestion increased between Broadway-Lafayette and West 4th Street. Add to that all the prospective A/C and G riders seeking alternative routes, and a broken door here or sick passenger there is all it would take to put the icing on the broken-train cake.

But if all you want is some recognition that your commute really was that bad and that the subway really isn’t getting any better despite the spending of hundreds of millions of dollars to “stabilize” the system, then here is that acknowledgment. And, I’m very sorry to tell you — again — that this will happen again sooner than you would like.

Crazy, I didnt even know all this happened, and I was on the (Q) this morning...

Edited by Dannny

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My (4) wasn’t crush loaded at Bowling Green, and a (6) was waiting at 42nd St, but  I got on at 7:30am.

Does make me wonder if the subway has enough switches to bypass sections with “issues.” Pretty sure I read on here that there was a switch removal program years ago to cut costs, but now I wonder if that was a shortsighted act that resulted in the subway being more prone to catastrophic failure.

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My (R) and (E) trains were FABULOUS this morning and thank god they didn't mention the (J) .

Sick Passengers, nothing you can do about. 

Signal malfunctions causing delays on the (N)(Q)(R)(W) at 34 Street-Herald Square?? I WONDER WHY, ANY GUESSES!!!??!?!

 

Thank god I'm safe. 

Edited by LGA Link N train

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23 minutes ago, Deucey said:

My (4) wasn’t crush loaded at Bowling Green, and a (6) was waiting at 42nd St, but  I got on at 7:30am.

Does make me wonder if the subway has enough switches to bypass sections with “issues.” Pretty sure I read on here that there was a switch removal program years ago to cut costs, but now I wonder if that was a shortsighted act that resulted in the subway being more prone to catastrophic failure.

You don't have to wonder, it was short sighted. It even affects how drastic planned service changes are.

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13 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

You don't have to wonder, it was short sighted. It even affects how drastic planned service changes are.

Seemed stupid to me to do that (thanks for confirming it for me) since  for a system built with numerous redundancies, removing ability to utilize those redundancies says so much about the state this agency is in - save a nickel > servicing the public effectively.

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There's a trade-off though, with the switches. The machinery and signalling related to them are very common points of failure (you'll see that 'signal problems' usually occur at interlocking), so when deciding whether to add a switch, one has to consider the negative effect it will innately have on reliability, and weigh that against flexibility. 

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50 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

And a fight and pepper spray deployed on the (A), is mr byford wrong or no?

 

He's absolutely right, the NYPD shouldn't have held the train for 90 minute during rush hour, that's criminal. They should have been faster or taken the train OOS where it can be investigated out of the way of normal service.

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50 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Byford is right.

Quote

 

A law enforcement source scoffed at Byford’s demand.

“If they get to a scene where they think there’s a fight they have to go on the train and see if somebody’s injured,” the source said. “Where are you gonna move a train to if a police investigation is being conducted? Maybe Mr. Byford has a suggestion.”

 

They could have moved the train to 2nd Ave or Bergen Lower level or whatever. But since it happened in Brooklyn the officers probably didn't want the train potentially moved out of their precinct or something.

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Well, it's definitely good that he's standing up for the riders in trying to minimize the delays due to the fight. Maybe he can negotiate with the police department to change their protocols when dealing with these types of issues. Maybe have the train cleared of passengers and deadhead to some pocket track (Maybe the one north of Chambers in this particular case) with some officers on-board to have them check the car for evidence or whatever they're supposed to do, and have some officers on the platform to deal with the fight, and in the meantime, have trains bypass High Street).

Technically, it's disturbing a crime scene, so it might not be possible, especially with how "by the books" a lot of agencies tend to be, but it can't hurt to at least bring up the idea. In some kind of terrorist situation (say, if they thought somebody left a bomb in the train or something), maybe it would be different, but a regular fight, as an outsider, I can see how it might be practical to conduct the investigation while minimizing service delays.

Edited by checkmatechamp13

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1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Well, it's definitely good that he's standing up for the riders in trying to minimize the delays due to the fight. Maybe he can negotiate with the police department to change their protocols when dealing with these types of issues. Maybe have the train cleared of passengers and deadhead to some pocket track (Maybe the one north of Chambers in this particular case) with some officers on-board to have them check the car for evidence or whatever they're supposed to do, and have some officers on the platform to deal with the fight, and in the meantime, have trains bypass High Street).

Technically, it's disturbing a crime scene, so it might not be possible, especially with how "by the books" a lot of agencies tend to be, but it can't hurt to at least bring up the idea. In some kind of terrorist situation (say, if they thought somebody left a bomb in the train or something), maybe it would be different, but a regular fight, as an outsider, I can see how it might be practical to conduct the investigation while minimizing service delays.

You would have to take PAX with you, NYPD isn't going to want to release witnesses; a train of 1000 people, or even a car load of 100 people trapped in Chambers or 30th M-track. That's a non-starter.

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I could've taken the subway yesterday, but totally avoided it and went with the M102 to get to where I was going.  I just put on BusTime, strolled over to the stop I needed and waited about 8 minutes and then violà, not one but TWO M102 buses showed up (gotta love the usual bunching along 3rd Avenue), with one of the drivers basically trying to kick passengers off who wanted to get on.  <_< He didn't have to encourage me.  Once I saw it was an old bus and a newer low floor bus was behind him, I went right over to the other bus.  They can't get rid of this old filthy buses fast enough.  

Afterwards, my BxM1 was of course a no-show, so I and several other people waited another 20 minutes for the next one, for a nice crowded bus. Meanwhile, M103 after M103 showed up over and over again like clockwork, and no, the M103 isn't normally scheduled to run like that.  And people wonder why bus service is horrendous. lol

Back to the subways... So the (MTA) is spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a subway action plan, and yet day after day there are TONS of mechanical problems.  I guess we need to give them another billion to fix the fix that they claimed the first $836 million would deal with. <_<

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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9 hours ago, Jsunflyguy said:

You would have to take PAX with you, NYPD isn't going to want to release witnesses; a train of 1000 people, or even a car load of 100 people trapped in Chambers or 30th M-track. That's a non-starter.

So you keep the witnesses in the station and have trains bypass High Street.

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This was the reason for the mess on the (A) line:

METRO

Subway riders get pepper-sprayed on morning commute

By Yoav Gonen, Danielle Furfaro and Amanda Woods

April 12, 2018 | 2:31pm | Updated

041218_nypd_transit_arrestpm_157761964.j

Police lead the suspect, David Dennis, into custody.Paul Martinka

A Brooklyn subway rider sprawled out over several seats got so angry when he was asked to share the space that he fired off pepper spray in the crowded car Thursday — causing a panic and snarling service at the height of rush hour, sources told The Post.

Commuters found the man — identified by police sources as 24-year-old David Dennis — hogging multiple seats on the Manhattan-bound A train pulling into the High Street station around 8:15 a.m., sources said.

When they asked Dennis to sit up and make room for other riders, he whipped out a can of pepper spray and blasted one female straphanger in the face, according to sources.

The train was held at High Street, where Dennis was taken into custody by transit police.

Charges against him are pending.

The woman who was pepper-sprayed was treated at the scene, while another man who was shoved during the ensuing chaos declined medical attention.

The rest of the straphangers were ushered off the train, which the NYPD ordered held in the station for the next 90 minutes while detectives investigated, MTA sources said.

“A fight between customers occurred on a northbound A train this morning around 8:17 a.m.,” the MTA tweeted. “Because weapons were involved, NYPD determined High St Station a crime scene.”

As the train sat in the station, A and C trains were re-routed over the F line.

This, in turn, re-routed some F trains along the G line, and incensed inconvenienced straphangers.

“If A and C trains were rerouted, why did we sit in the tunnel between stations for 35 (!!) minutes with no clear announcements?” fumed Twitter user @anjiezheng.

Source: https://nypost.com/2018/04/12/subway-riders-get-pepper-sprayed-on-morning-commute/

---

I think the real issue here is a lack of announcements.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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17 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

This was the reason for the mess on the (A) line:

METRO

Subway riders get pepper-sprayed on morning commute

By Yoav Gonen, Danielle Furfaro and Amanda Woods

April 12, 2018 | 2:31pm | Updated

041218_nypd_transit_arrestpm_157761964.j

Police lead the suspect, David Dennis, into custody.Paul Martinka

A Brooklyn subway rider sprawled out over several seats got so angry when he was asked to share the space that he fired off pepper spray in the crowded car Thursday — causing a panic and snarling service at the height of rush hour, sources told The Post.

Commuters found the man — identified by police sources as 24-year-old David Dennis — hogging multiple seats on the Manhattan-bound A train pulling into the High Street station around 8:15 a.m., sources said.

When they asked Dennis to sit up and make room for other riders, he whipped out a can of pepper spray and blasted one female straphanger in the face, according to sources.

The train was held at High Street, where Dennis was taken into custody by transit police.

Charges against him are pending.

The woman who was pepper-sprayed was treated at the scene, while another man who was shoved during the ensuing chaos declined medical attention.

The rest of the straphangers were ushered off the train, which the NYPD ordered held in the station for the next 90 minutes while detectives investigated, MTA sources said.

“A fight between customers occurred on a northbound A train this morning around 8:17 a.m.,” the MTA tweeted. “Because weapons were involved, NYPD determined High St Station a crime scene.”

As the train sat in the station, A and C trains were re-routed over the F line.

This, in turn, re-routed some F trains along the G line, and incensed inconvenienced straphangers.

“If A and C trains were rerouted, why did we sit in the tunnel between stations for 35 (!!) minutes with no clear announcements?” fumed Twitter user @anjiezheng.

Source: https://nypost.com/2018/04/12/subway-riders-get-pepper-sprayed-on-morning-commute/

---

I think the real issue here is a lack of announcements.

Honestly, I can’t wait till one of these clowns gets the living crap beat out of them for doing sh*t like This. Whole subway car could have jumped his a**, that way justice would have at least been served....

and in all fairness this wasn’t really “a fight” and include “weapons”  

Edited by Dannny
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18 minutes ago, Dannny said:

Honestly, I can’t wait till one of these clowns gets the living crap beat out of them for doing sh*t like This. Whole subway car could have jumped his a**, that way justice would have at least been served....

and in all fairness this wasn’t really “a fight” and include “weapons”  

Yeah, I'm tired of this nonsense also.... 

People can say whatever they want about 3rd world countries, but the one thing they have on us is good old fashioned street justice..... Just looking at that goof in that picture makes me want to take a sledgehammer & knock all his teeth down his god damn throat.... The f*** you gotta pepper spray someone wanting to sit down, because your raggamuffin ass can't find a nice sized box to place under some scaffolding where you can do all the sprawling you want..... It's shit like this, is why you don't bother these people sleeping/spreading out on the subway.... They're high strung, highly volatile, and flat out nuts....

Getting a seat on a NYC subway train is serious business, but this jackass' reaction to other riders wanting one is completely unwarranted....

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16 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, I'm tired of this nonsense also.... 

People can say whatever they want about 3rd world countries, but the one thing they have on us is good old fashioned street justice..... Just looking at that goof in that picture makes me want to take a sledgehammer & knock all his teeth down his god damn throat.... The f*** you gotta pepper spray someone wanting to sit down, because your raggamuffin ass can't find a nice sized box to place under some scaffolding where you can do all the sprawling you want..... It's shit like this, is why you don't bother these people sleeping/spreading out on the subway.... They're high strung, highly volatile, and flat out nuts....

Getting a seat on a NYC subway train is serious business, but this jackass' reaction to other riders wanting one is completely unwarranted....

Last Sunday, this crazy lady got on the (A) train. I forget which stop, but she was nuts.  Sprawled out on one of the three seaters, talking loudly as if she was deranged.  No one sat near here anywhere, so between the seats she took up and the ones left, you could say almost a good 10 seats.  She laid down as if she were in bed, put the little jacket or whatever it was supposed to be over here, and dared anyone to come near her.  Even tourists that got on and didn't speak English understood the deal. lol

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16 hours ago, Deucey said:

Seemed stupid to me to do that (thanks for confirming it for me) since  for a system built with numerous redundancies, removing ability to utilize those redundancies says so much about the state this agency is in - save a nickel > servicing the public effectively.

It would appear that we’re moving ever closer to a system where little problems will shut down an entire line. Currently these major lines are Canarsie ((L)), 2 Avenue ((Q)), and Jamaica ((J)(Z)), and the share of double-tracked lines will only increase since extra tracks are cost-prohibitive for all the wrong reasons (generous labor laws, poor cost controls, insanely high safety standards). Switches can always be added back to take advantage of existing redundancies, but for those other lines operating under the current system’s rules, anything can bring service to a complete halt.

36 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, I'm tired of this nonsense also.... 

People can say whatever they want about 3rd world countries, but the one thing they have on us is good old fashioned street justice..... Just looking at that goof in that picture makes me want to take a sledgehammer & knock all his teeth down his god damn throat.... The f*** you gotta pepper spray someone wanting to sit down, because your raggamuffin ass can't find a nice sized box to place under some scaffolding where you can do all the sprawling you want..... It's shit like this, is why you don't bother these people sleeping/spreading out on the subway.... They're high strung, highly volatile, and flat out nuts....

Getting a seat on a NYC subway train is serious business, but this jackass' reaction to other riders wanting one is completely unwarranted....

The burden of human rights, lawsuits, and playing by the book will cost this nation economically and socially. If our society collectively thinks it’s worth it, then it will pay a pretty penny for it while other nations will steamroll anything that gets in the way of collective advancement.

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The guy in the pic must've been a homeless person because they're the only people who I see on the (A)  or the (E) line all sprawled out on the seats. I didn't know that the homeless on the (A) ride down to Brooklyn, I usually see them begging people for money around 125th-181st on the (A), or sleeping on the stations around the Washington Heights area. 

 

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3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Last Sunday, this crazy lady got on the (A) train. I forget which stop, but she was nuts.  Sprawled out on one of the three seaters, talking loudly as if she was deranged.  No one sat near here anywhere, so between the seats she took up and the ones left, you could say almost a good 10 seats.  She laid down as if she were in bed, put the little jacket or whatever it was supposed to be over here, and dared anyone to come near her.  Even tourists that got on and didn't speak English understood the deal. lol

Did she happen to be asking people for gum? If so I've run into her a few times on my (A) and (D) trains.

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I think when it comes down with sick passengers the station agent need to help escort them off the train onto a platform bench and keep the train moving. Unless its a severe case like a stroke or something keep them on the train but if not just escort them to somewhere safe until EMS comes through. Now with idiots who want to star fights or something like that I could understand holding a train for investigation but you need to tell customers what is actually happening. Its like countdown clocks. Its better to let a customer know when a train is coming than just have them wait, its frustrating. 

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25 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

I think when it comes down with sick passengers the station agent need to help escort them off the train onto a platform bench and keep the train moving. Unless its a severe case like a stroke or something keep them on the train but if not just escort them to somewhere safe until EMS comes through. Now with idiots who want to star fights or something like that I could understand holding a train for investigation but you need to tell customers what is actually happening. Its like countdown clocks. Its better to let a customer know when a train is coming than just have them wait, its frustrating. 

The Station Agent's job is tied to the booth, station property, and the AFC equipment.  Regarding customer service, the scope of their involvement is to listen and then respond.  Unless safety of the passenger(s), other coworkers, or themselves is at risk, they may not lay hands on another individual.  

The public's perception of the job is extremely skewed, and despite what you may have seen or heard, every time the Station Agent goes out to assist a passenger, they risk their livelihood and their safety to do so.  Agents have been killed doing heroic things like helping a person only to find out it was a set up.

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2 minutes ago, Dave2836 said:

The Station Agent's job is tied to the booth, station property, and the AFC equipment.  Regarding customer service, the scope of their involvement is to listen and then respond.  Unless safety of the passenger(s), other coworkers, or themselves is at risk, they may not lay hands on another individual.  

The public's perception of the job is extremely skewed, and despite what you may have seen or heard, every time the Station Agent goes out to assist a passenger, they risk their livelihood and their safety to do so.  Agents have been killed doing heroic things like helping a person only to find out it was a set up.

I see now. 

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