SI Express Route Public Hearing Request, M4 Truncation, July 2018 Schedule Changes

[checkmatechamp13]

http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/180423_1000_Transit.pdf (Starting on page 186).

No further details on the SI express plan (frequencies, spans, Manhattan stop locations, etc). Unfortunately, it doesn't seem as if they took into consideration some rather good suggestions (I suggested having the off-peak SIM2 run up Victory Blvd & Richmond Avenue so that it maintains the direct ride from the northern portion of the Richmond Avenue corridor to Manhattan instead of making extra stops along Gannon Avenue), and somebody on Subchat suggested having the SIM3c run down Victory Blvd & Clove Road to maintain off-peak service on Concord and add off-peak service in Sunnyside. So basically, no further changes compared to what they proposed at the March open houses.

M4 gets truncated to 41st Street between 5th & Madison (funny how it saves $1.0 million, the exact amount that's going towards the SI express plan).

Then some schedule changes. Some increases in X27 weekend service and some reductions in B41 weekend service.

[MysteriousBtrain]

While I can accept the M4 cut, was rerouting the M4 to the original Q32 terminal ever considered? Also confused as to if this is planned to be permanent.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Also, couldn't they have considered the M5 terminal? 

IDK about the M4 change, but something about that makes me thing that it'll leave it open for more short-turns to be implemented on the northern portion of the route. It wouldn't be so bad if service was added on the other routes, but knowing how the MTA works, that's not going to happen.

LMFAO at the original proposal though (discussed in the alternatives). If this doesn't show you how desperate the MTA looks to cut bus service, then I don't know what will. Keep in mind that if the Q32 was to be cut, 41st Street wasn't even an option. That alone would have destroyed a sizable chunk of PM ridership:

Quote

2. Terminate the M4 on East 32nd Street and the Q32 on East 52nd Street - This option was originally presented to the affected Queens community boards and received an unfavorable reaction due to the large number of customers who would have to transfer twice in order to complete their trip. Terminating in Midtown would be less onerous for M4 customers who have more alternatives (along upper 5th Avenue, Madison Avenue, and north of Central Park) than for Q32 customers.

 

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From the service Increases and decreases, notable changes include:

B70 Weekday Midday will go from every 30 minutes to every 20 minutes

Bx32 Weekday Evening service will go from every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes

B44 Sunday morning and evening service resuctions

B46 Saturday midday and evening reductions (Again) and Sunday service reductions throughout the day

B82 AM and PM service increases

X27 Saturday evening and Sunday AM service will run every 30 minutes instead of every 60 minutes

[checkmatechamp13]

3 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

While I can accept the M4 cut, was rerouting the M4 to the original Q32 terminal ever considered? Also confused as to if this is planned to be permanent.

They could only have one route in the terminal, and the M4 was deemed to have more alternatives to Penn Station compared to the Q32, so that was the route that was removed. Having the Q32 cut back (to 52nd Street?) was considered but was ultimately rejected. 

And yes, it's planned to be permanent. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Also, couldn't they have considered the M5 terminal? 

IDK about the M4 change, but something about that makes me thing that it'll leave it open for more short-turns to be implemented on the northern portion of the route. It wouldn't be so bad if service was added on the other routes, but knowing how the MTA works, that's not going to happen.

LMFAO at the original proposal though, which was discussed in the alternatives:

This cut back is complete BS. Service is bad enough below 42nd street as it is, and they just keep on chopping away. Since when can they only have one bus terminate at Penn Station??  Forget about the M4... This is just the  cutting back whatever routes that can to save money.  Nothing more nothing less.  Disgusting.  I think it's time for me to contact more elected officials.  We see less and less service, MORE fare hikes and nothing to show for it.  

Doing more with less was acceptable in 2010 because of recession, but our economy here is growing substantially.  Unemployment is at record lows and people NEED transportation, and yet the  continues to cut service!  

14 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

While I can accept the M4 cut, was rerouting the M4 to the original Q32 terminal ever considered? Also confused as to if this is planned to be permanent.

Of course you can accept it.  It doesn't affect your commute.  

[checkmatechamp13]

Taking a closer look, I see they extended the SIM8 (basically the Richmond Avenue portion of the X17J) to Woodrow & Huguenot to maintain service along Woodrow Road between Arden & Arthur Kill and rerouted the SIM7 to run down Hylan instead of Father Capodanno Blvd, and rerouted the SIM3c to serve Concord (basically the current X10 setup. Get on the SIE at Slosson and get off at Clove). 

[MysteriousBtrain]

11 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Of course you can accept it.  It doesn't affect your commute.  

I ride the route often. Plus I never said I agree with the cut. I said what I said because most if not all uptown-downtown routes are unreliable as hell. 

The affected riders are (somewhat) minimal. South of 110 St has the M1-3 and a bit of a walk. North you can take the nearby and  .

17 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

LMFAO at the original proposal though (discussed in the alternatives). If this doesn't show you how desperate the MTA looks to cut bus service, then I don't know what will. Keep in mind that if the Q32 was to be cut, 41st Street wasn't even an option. That alone would have destroyed a sizable chunk of PM ridership:

I saw that too. It's amazing how much the ta is willing to cut. And Manhattan seemed to get the bulk of the cuts these last few years. 

[checkmatechamp13]

2 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

I ride the route often. Plus I never said I agree with the cut. I said what I said because most if not all uptown-downtown routes are unreliable as hell. 

The affected riders are (somewhat) minimal. South of 110 St has the M1-3 and a bit of a walk. North you can take the nearby and  .

I saw that too. It's amazing how much the ta is willing to cut. And Manhattan seemed to get the bulk of the cuts these last few years. 

Hey, I hope all the people who scream at the public hearings about how "Manhattan has all the service" and "the outer boroughs are forgotten" are happy. Doesn't mean service in the outer boroughs actually gets improved, though.

[checkmatechamp13]

A little more background on the East 32nd Street situation: https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2018/03/30/will-the-mta-make-room-for-a-pedestrian-friendly-32nd-street/

Also, with the SI express plan, it looks like all the "via NJ" routes will use 42nd Street in both directions. 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

36 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

I ride the route often. Plus I never said I agree with the cut. I said what I said because most if not all uptown-downtown routes are unreliable as hell. 

The affected riders are (somewhat) minimal. South of 110 St has the M1-3 and a bit of a walk. North you can take the nearby and  .

I saw that too. It's amazing how much the ta is willing to cut. And Manhattan seemed to get the bulk of the cuts these last few years. 

It's not amazing at all.  This is their plan to claim that they're "serious" about getting their budget in line, and it's always service cuts.

[limitednyc]

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the service Increases and decreases, notable changes include:

B70 Weekday Midday will go from every 30 minutes to every 20 minutes

Bx32 Weekday Evening service will go from every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes

B44 Sunday morning and evening service resuctions

B46 Saturday midday and evening reductions (Again) and Sunday service reductions throughout the day

B82 AM and PM service increases

X27 Saturday evening and Sunday AM service will run every 30 minutes instead of every 60 minutes

x27 sun am also increased from 60-30

[Via Garibaldi 8]

10 minutes ago, limitednyc said:

x27 sun am also increased from 60-30

They need to expand the length that it runs too on weekends... It stops running wayyy too early. I hear people constantly complain about it when I use it from Bay Ridge to go back to the City, and that's something else I've been requesting from both elected officials and the .  There are times when I miss the last bus back to the City and then have to make my way from deep along Shore Rd and find another way to reach the City.

[checkmatechamp13]

35 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

They need to expand the length that it runs too on weekends... It stops running wayyy too early. I hear people constantly complain about it when I use it from Bay Ridge to go back to the City, and that's something else I've been requesting from both elected officials and the .  There are times when I miss the last bus back to the City and then have to make my way from deep along Shore Rd and find another way to reach the City.

On weekdays too for that matter. I get it that they want to focus on the peak direction, but reverse-peak service is important, especially in isolated areas (the same thing happens on Staten Island. The X1 & X10 run like crap inbound in the evening, and the X17 stops running altogether). 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, checkmatechamp13 said:

On weekdays too for that matter. I get it that they want to focus on the peak direction, but reverse-peak service is important, especially in isolated areas (the same thing happens on Staten Island. The X1 & X10 run like crap inbound in the evening, and the X17 stops running altogether). 

I can't say I disagree. I've wanted to get the X27 or X28 and can't get to the last bus... I think the X27 could benefit from it. It sees more usage than X28 overall.

[NY1635]

I'm glad that the Queens community board fought against truncating the Q32 to E.52nd because the people who use that route do so to avoid taking the QBL or the and having to put up with the delays between 42nd and Queens Plaza. Less traffic in the city after 9PM means a faster rider into Queens on the Q32.

[Future ENY OP]

3 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

B44 Sunday morning and evening service reductions

B46 Saturday midday and evening reductions (Again) and Sunday service reductions throughout the day

B82 AM and PM service increases

Once again... Brooklyn Division is treated like stepchildren.. Reductions on Flatbush heaviest lines... Best believe this year. The B41/44/46 will reach the top 10 in ridership if this trend continues.

M4 reduction to Bryant Park-41 Street. While I have some opposition about this. However, that M4 ride is pretty long from Fort Tryon to Midtown plus it's not a limited. Hopefully, things do get better for the M4.

Now, I gotta see how this works since the SBS is postponed at the earliest- Fall Pick, latest- early 2019-Spring while they get the kinks (B82). 

[Around the Horn]

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

They need to expand the length that it runs too on weekends... It stops running wayyy too early. I hear people constantly complain about it when I use it from Bay Ridge to go back to the City, and that's something else I've been requesting from both elected officials and the .  There are times when I miss the last bus back to the City and then have to make my way from deep along Shore Rd and find another way to reach the City.

They need to fix the transition from the X37 to the full length X27 in the evenings too. That service gap is too wide.

[MHV9218]

MTA is losing their minds with all the mess they've made in Midtown. Can we say it for the people in the back? Bring back the pre-2010 service. M1 to SF, M6, and M4/5 running their regular routes was the best service pattern. M5 to SF was always a bad idea, M5 to Midtown is stupid, M55 is a waste, M1 not on Park is foolish, M4 cutting 10 blocks is idiotic, I just don't get it...

[B35 via Church]

12 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Also, couldn't they have considered the M5 terminal? 

IDK about the M4 change, but something about that makes me thing that it'll leave it open for more short-turns to be implemented on the northern portion of the route. It wouldn't be so bad if service was added on the other routes, but knowing how the MTA works, that's not going to happen.

LMFAO at the original proposal though (discussed in the alternatives). If this doesn't show you how desperate the MTA looks to cut bus service, then I don't know what will. Keep in mind that if the Q32 was to be cut, 41st Street wasn't even an option. That alone would have destroyed a sizable chunk of PM ridership:

I've mentioned both of these in the past; having the M4 end where the M5 does (instead of the meandering it does to get to Penn from the north) & it eventually coming to a point where we're going to see more of those 135th st short turns.... I'm looking at the M4 schedule now & I had no idea there were that many total trips in both directions doing as such.... It's too long for its own good....

As far as Penn itself, they've been wanting to rid itself of terminating routes there for a minute now (M10, now soon to be M4)... The Q32 is the last dog left standing & I don't think it will be too long before they have it cutback somewhere in Manhattan.... The 53rd st. cutback suggestion for the Q32 though is just as *facepalm* worthy as the M98 cutback to Hunter coll...... Being honest however, the one thing that does irk me whenever I ride the Q32 from the Manhattan end, are the amt. of waiting riders asking if it goes to [insert some point well north of 59th st] - worse than that, they tend to be the only passenger{s} at a given stop at that moment too... It's time wasted & more often than not, it leads up to missing green lights/catching reds.....

Having said all that, I can't concur with having M4's cut back to 42nd.... Both the M4 & the Q32 get a decent amt. of ridership throughout the day at Penn; it's like they're forcing people in the immediate area to take the 34/34a to get to points east of Penn....

[NY1635]

7 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

MTA is losing their minds with all the mess they've made in Midtown. Can we say it for the people in the back? Bring back the pre-2010 service. M1 to SF, M6, and M4/5 running their regular routes was the best service pattern. M5 to SF was always a bad idea, M5 to Midtown is stupid, M55 is a waste, M1 not on Park is foolish, M4 cutting 10 blocks is idiotic, I just don't get it...

Bringing back the pre-2010 service would undermine the city's efforts to convert Midtown into one big pedestrian zone for the benefit of tourists. It's rather telling that I can make more progress on foot walking from Rockefeller Center to Penn Station than any of the buses running up and down 5th and Madison between that same span. 

[Statty]

12 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

M4 reduction to Bryant Park-41 Street. While I have some opposition about this. However, that M4 ride is pretty long from Fort Tryon to Midtown plus it's not a limited. Hopefully, things do get better for the M4.

M4 does have limited. But I agree with having some opposition this matter. Ever since that 34th st cut and then now 37th st cut, it really sucks for the ridership. 

I think having it terminate at the bus stop between 35th/36th and 7th, the first stop making the left onto 7th, wouldve been a better idea. Passengers can still walk to Penn station and still get the uptown bus from 34th st. Bus then would have to make a left onto 34th from terminal on 7th and left at Madison for uptown service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

11 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

They need to fix the transition from the X37 to the full length X27 in the evenings too. That service gap is too wide.

I don't think they're a fan of those Super Express trips. They are very eager to cut X37 trips past 18:00 back to Bay Ridge. They play this game where they cut and add, and had Bay Ridge not been as vocal as they've been along with Golden being a bulldog, they probably would have far fewer X37 trips. My old boss not only moved to Bay Ridge on my recommendation but he bought there as well and has been raising his little one down there. He commuted with the X37 before the company moved Downtown, but the demographics in my mind says that you need a sufficient amount of X37s to X27s. The folks west of 3rd and along Shore Rd are either going to be working in Midtown or Downtown generally in white collar jobs so there's no getting around providing the service.

[EastFlatbushLarry]

4 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Both the M4 & the Q32 get a decent amt. of ridership throughout the day at Penn; it's like they're forcing people in the immediate area to take the 34/34a to get to points east of Penn....

if you look at the last several years, it definitely seems as if transit is absolutely attempting to clear out bus traffic in & around penn. i will say it is beyond a clusterf**k in that area with the amount of pedestrians (tourists) on the sidewalks & in the crosswalks, tying up traffic. but, clearing out the M10, M4 and sooner than later, the Q32 cannot be even remotely wise. if this is a ploy to increase ridership on the M34 or to push for the bus only thru street... then they're making an absolute mess of things

[EastFlatbushLarry]

18 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

B46 Saturday midday and evening reductions (Again) and Sunday service reductions throughout the day

i swear to god, they want B/O's & customers to have full out brain anyurisms on the Utica/Malcolm X corridor. they are committed to the ideal of the SBS46 being successful, when it really isn't, from a customer standpoint. my mother and sister have given up on Utica Avenue, period. if my sister needs to get to work in Manhattan, she'd rather wait for the B7 or B47 to catch the and to be honest, if you look at ridership on the B47 recently, I believe others are on the same wave... dollar van companies will be making good money off of the dismemberment of the B46 local. it's really sad to see a once great line being absolutely destroyed. 

[Orion6025]

Thank god they didn't cut the q32 from 32 street... On weekends when the 7 is down or just spur of the moment heading home on any day really, it's so convenient to have the q32 in midtown. Cutting it to 52 street would be such a waste; one of the primary purposes of the q32 is to serve queens residents heading into manhattan and when you cut the q32 like that so quickly... that's just ridiculous; they're asking for the route to fail with that proposal.

I can understand the justification for cutting the route from 23 street however many years ago, but the terminal shouldn't  move any more north than 32...