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SI Express Route Public Hearing Request, M4 Truncation, July 2018 Schedule Changes


checkmatechamp13

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I hate to sound cynical but the impression that I am receiving is that no one really cares about bus service in the MTA. It seems that all the interest there is getting the federal money and then letting the routes get worse as the headways are  increased. The two elements that are necessary for sbs to work;  supervision and enforcement conveniently disappear from the plan even though for the SBS to be a success. they must be part of it. The MTA is gung-ho on cutting labor costs so the dispatchers which are essential for the route to run well are discarded and the traffic agents cannot be found patrolling the routes for double parkers on a regular basis. So a proposal is based on what is seen on a computer screen, not based on hearing and listening to the bus drivers and riders. Taking it one step further, then all future decisions are made on data that is generated and read on the screen which becomes the decision maker for service levels.

As far as NYCDOT is concerned, they have an agenda that does not care about bus service either and their decisions are made just like the MTA based on computer screens with one difference as soon as someone gets hurt by a vehicle, up pops the fantasy of  vision zero. Then it becomes the fault of all of us that obey the law and we must be punished for something that we have no control, over whether we are a driver or a pedestrian. While there are laws on the books, NYCDOT does not care about them as they do not care about bus service either except the federal money that comes into the city for programs like this.

An update on the B/82 sbs as I am in the process of examining the local area newspapers and so far i have seen anything on the sbs this week. The next time that we see something will be  when Deutsch needs to get his name in the media and the press releases start flying out to everyone within earshot . If my research is correct, he shares the area with another councilman who has been quiet on the issue.

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1 hour ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

if you look at the last several years, it definitely seems as if transit is absolutely attempting to clear out bus traffic in & around penn. i will say it is beyond a clusterf**k in that area with the amount of pedestrians (tourists) on the sidewalks & in the crosswalks, tying up traffic. but, clearing out the M10, M4 and sooner than later, the Q32 cannot be even remotely wise. if this is a ploy to increase ridership on the M34 or to push for the bus only thru street... then they're making an absolute mess of things

Ughk, let's not forget the taxi stands (plural)..... The effect the yellow cabs picking up at MSG have on the rest of its respective traffic, is much worse on the 8th av side than on the 7th av side.... The masses (pedestrians) on the 7th av side tend to cause traffic tie-ups, but gridlock (at least in my experiences) happens more on the 8th av side & the cabs are a large reason for it.....

1 hour ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

i swear to god, they want B/O's & customers to have full out brain anyurisms on the Utica/Malcolm X corridor. they are committed to the ideal of the SBS46 being successful, when it really isn't, from a customer standpoint. my mother and sister have given up on Utica Avenue, period. if my sister needs to get to work in Manhattan, she'd rather wait for the B7 or B47 to catch the (3) and to be honest, if you look at ridership on the B47 recently, I believe others are on the same wave... dollar van companies will be making good money off of the (MTA) dismemberment of the B46 local. it's really sad to see a once great line being absolutely destroyed. 

What's ironic about this post of yours here is that years ago on this forum, I used the passenger activity/riding habits of the B46 & the B47 here in East Flatbush to make a case that the inner-third of the B7 route is basically useless (that is, the portion b/w Church av & Flatbush av).... In turn (and I still believe this btw), I suggested that the B7 south of Church take over the B17 Paerdegat branch to supplement Remsen av riders b/c it's sorely needed....

While I haven't been paying any real close attention to the B7 lately, the B47 however, yeah, it does seem like there's an uptick - but I tend to always charge that due to that route's notorious inconsistency..... You can go 20+ mins. easily (even during peak times) without seeing another bus on Ralph av around here if you just miss one.... That's the thing I abhor about the B47 - it's consistent inconsistence !

Not to any great extent, but I'm also of the suspicion that people around here are avoiding the B46... Of course the route is still a heavy-hitter usage-wise compared to other routes in the rest of the city, but it does seem as if less people overall are taking SBS's compared to LTD service around here at least (that could be skewed by the frequency of SBS' vs the LTD's, IDK)... Local service, pfft, I'm more than convinced that people are fed up with it & given up on it..... Operations-wise, I didn't think the MTA could top the award-winning performance of the bastardization of the B44 route, but they've won the pulitzer for what they did w/ the B46.....

They didn't need the bus lanes along Utica av. over here & they didn't need SBS either..... Destroyed is right.

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9 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Ughk, let's not forget the taxi stands (plural)..... The effect the yellow cabs picking up at MSG have on the rest of its respective traffic, is much worse on the 8th av side than on the 7th av side.... The masses (pedestrians) on the 7th av side tend to cause traffic tie-ups, but gridlock (at least in my experiences) happens more on the 8th av side & the cabs are a large reason for it.....

What's ironic about this post of yours here is that years ago on this forum, I used the passenger activity/riding habits of the B46 & the B47 here in East Flatbush to make a case that the inner-third of the B7 route is basically useless (that is, the portion b/w Church av & Flatbush av).... In turn (and I still believe this btw), I suggested that the B7 south of Church take over the B17 Paerdegat branch to supplement Remsen av riders b/c it's sorely needed....

While I haven't been paying any real close attention to the B7 lately, the B47 however, yeah, it does seem like there's an uptick - but I tend to always charge that due to that route's notorious inconsistency..... You can go 20+ mins. easily (even during peak times) without seeing another bus on Ralph av around here if you just miss one.... That's the thing I abhor about the B47 - it's consistent inconsistence !

Not to any great extent, but I'm also of the suspicion that people around here are avoiding the B46... Of course the route is still a heavy-hitter usage-wise compared to other routes in the rest of the city, but it does seem as if less people overall are taking SBS's compared to LTD service around here at least (that could be skewed by the frequency of SBS' vs the LTD's, IDK)... Local service, pfft, I'm more than convinced that people are fed up with it & given up on it..... Operations-wise, I didn't think the MTA could top the award-winning performance of the bastardization of the B44 route, but they've won the pulitzer for what they did w/ the B46.....

They didn't need the bus lanes along Utica av. over here & they didn't need SBS either..... Destroyed is right.

for some customers, there is no avoiding the 46 as far as the IRT's at eastern parkway goes. but, as anyone from east Flatbush can tell you, dollar vans really help people avoid the ineptitude of both versions of the 46. the 46 local is rapidly turning into the old b78 to be completely honest (and younger people think the 47 is s***ty these days 😂) which is horribly ironic because somehow ralph avenue south & the b35 have become better alternatives to get into the heart of east Flatbush from kings plaza. the 47's I've been on recently empty out at church avenue with customers heading west on the 35 (or a dollar cab) I've made the trip several times myself (to avoid driving) from farragut road to east 49 street. it's a totally different climate on the 46 these days as well. the sbs has really dug up and exposed the dregs of utica avenue society. the b47, albeit crowded, is a much more civilized riding environment. the sheer anger & disdain people have for the 46 reminds me much of how hated the 78 was... inconsistency of monumental proportions, buses showing up whenever, masses of people avoiding the line like the plague, having to make life changing decisions based on whether or not you catch the bus... the comparison is painful. if this was any other affluent community, they wouldn't be able to keep chopping the 46 local without just cause. but, this is east Flatbush. the complaining is done on the streets & to the operators. as an operator, i can tell people that the only fans of the SBS46 are the SBS46 operators... and even some of them find a way to be curmudgeons. any operator I know (or have seen) on the locals are ripping their hair out in noticeable clumps. i had a feeling they'd find a way to f**k with the 46 local paddles, just like they did with the 44 local. all in the name of what? validating the SBS's existence? is this the receipt (proof-of-purchase) for the metrocard machines & bus lanes? atrocious. 

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56 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

the B47 however, yeah, it does seem like there's an uptick - but I tend to always charge that due to that route's notorious inconsistency.

i must add to your point, yes... the sheer existence of the B47 is purely based in controversy from it's birth. the line was created to bunch & run inconsistently (personal opinion) the ONLY time the 47 ran well was out of Flatbush, having retained short trips to Rutland road (all day) & having trips to woodhull. i would love to know why, for the love of all things holy, the B47 short sign to rutland doesn't exist anymore. there's no proof that can be provided as far as concrete data is concerned to validate it's non existing in regards to ridership to/from kings plaza on ralph avenue (south)  i say all of that because i am fully convinced people are avoiding the 46's in favor of dollar vans & the b47. I've been at kings plaza at various times of day, weekdays & weekends and one constant variable is the B47 crowds, regardless of bunching & lateness. 

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7 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

I hate to sound cynical but the impression that I am receiving is that no one really cares about bus service in the MTA. It seems that all the interest there is getting the federal money and then letting the routes get worse as the headways are  increased. The two elements that are necessary for sbs to work;  supervision and enforcement conveniently disappear from the plan even though for the SBS to be a success. they must be part of it. The MTA is gung-ho on cutting labor costs so the dispatchers which are essential for the route to run well are discarded and the traffic agents cannot be found patrolling the routes for double parkers on a regular basis. So a proposal is based on what is seen on a computer screen, not based on hearing and listening to the bus drivers and riders. Taking it one step further, then all future decisions are made on data that is generated and read on the screen which becomes the decision maker for service levels.

As far as NYCDOT is concerned, they have an agenda that does not care about bus service either and their decisions are made just like the MTA based on computer screens with one difference as soon as someone gets hurt by a vehicle, up pops the fantasy of  vision zero. Then it becomes the fault of all of us that obey the law and we must be punished for something that we have no control, over whether we are a driver or a pedestrian. While there are laws on the books, NYCDOT does not care about them as they do not care about bus service either except the federal money that comes into the city for programs like this.

An update on the B/82 sbs as I am in the process of examining the local area newspapers and so far i have seen anything on the sbs this week. The next time that we see something will be  when Deutsch needs to get his name in the media and the press releases start flying out to everyone within earshot . If my research is correct, he shares the area with another councilman who has been quiet on the issue.

They really don't. I have contacted some elected officials about restoring service on some lines like the M104, and the response I get is that there's no hope.  I reached out to Gale Brewer's office and she sounded exasperated as in people who contacted her numerous times in anger, so reached out to the (MTA) and they were adamant about not restoring the service. The agency is still quite political in how in operates which is another problem.  The communities that scream the loudest and are the most vocal can often times get service restored, but even then it's an uphill fight.

6 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

for some customers, there is no avoiding the 46 as far as the IRT's at eastern parkway goes. but, as anyone from east Flatbush can tell you, dollar vans really help people avoid the ineptitude of both versions of the 46. the 46 local is rapidly turning into the old b78 to be completely honest (and younger people think the 47 is s***ty these days 😂) which is horribly ironic because somehow ralph avenue south & the b35 have become better alternatives to get into the heart of east Flatbush from kings plaza. the 47's I've been on recently empty out at church avenue with customers heading west on the 35 (or a dollar cab) I've made the trip several times myself (to avoid driving) from farragut road to east 49 street. it's a totally different climate on the 46 these days as well. the sbs has really dug up and exposed the dregs of utica avenue society. the b47, albeit crowded, is a much more civilized riding environment. the sheer anger & disdain people have for the 46 reminds me much of how hated the 78 was... inconsistency of monumental proportions, buses showing up whenever, masses of people avoiding the line like the plague, having to make life changing decisions based on whether or not you catch the bus... the comparison is painful. if this was any other affluent community, they wouldn't be able to keep chopping the 46 local without just cause. but, this is east Flatbush. the complaining is done on the streets & to the operators. as an operator, i can tell people that the only fans of the SBS46 are the SBS46 operators... and even some of them find a way to be curmudgeons. any operator I know (or have seen) on the locals are ripping their hair out in noticeable clumps. i had a feeling they'd find a way to f**k with the 46 local paddles, just like they did with the 44 local. all in the name of what? validating the SBS's existence? is this the receipt (proof-of-purchase) for the metrocard machines & bus lanes? atrocious. 

If the claims of fare beating are as rampant as some here say that it's been, then SBS solves a number of "problems":

1.  If the Eagle Team is out and about, fewer people will be willing to fare beat.  

2. Cutting back local service due to "decreased ridership"... Cut operating costs and run more SBS which is cheaper (Federal funding pays for the actual "shiny new buses" that the (MTA) gloats about supplying in their SBS marketing campaigns.  SBS may only be "slightly" faster, but either way they get to cut cost, which is what they care about.

3.  I know that some communities aren't so wild about writing their constituents but that's how things get done. If local representatives aren't pestered to act they can't because they can't know all of the issues in their community, only those brought to their attention or the ones that they see.  Aside from that you have some elected officials who only care about furthering their careers, and those are the types that have to be voted out of office.

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On 4/20/2018 at 8:44 PM, Future ENY OP said:

Once again... Brooklyn Division is treated like stepchildren.. Reductions on Flatbush heaviest lines... Best believe this year. The B41/44/46 will reach the top 10 in ridership if this trend continues.

M4 reduction to Bryant Park-41 Street. While I have some opposition about this. However, that M4 ride is pretty long from Fort Tryon to Midtown plus it's not a limited. Hopefully, things do get better for the M4.

Now, I gotta see how this works since the SBS is postponed at the earliest- Fall Pick, latest- early 2019-Spring while they get the kinks (B82). 

Aren't the latter two permanent fixtures in the top 10 for ridership? Of course they will reach it if they're always there. The former tanked it's way out of the top 10 and may soon be out of the top 20. The MTA seems to have some fetish for these routes which involves reducing service levels. It is beyond my imagination what the deal is here. 

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4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Cutting back local service due to "decreased ridership"... Cut operating costs and run more SBS which is cheaper (Federal funding pays for the actual "shiny new buses" that the (MTA) gloats about supplying in their SBS marketing campaigns.  SBS may only be "slightly" faster, but either way they get to cut cost, which is what they care about.

illusions & "clever" deception... where have i heard that theme before? to the untrained eye, it would seem as if the SBS46 is this holy deity that is the best thing to ever touch brooklyn... but, it's a clever ruse, that highlights problems everyone already knows, especially in East Flatbush. the 46 has always suffered because of BROADWAY. no matter what they do (limiteds to Willy-B & DeKalb, while locals run only to DeKalb or SBS's to DeKalb while senselessly sending every local to the bridge), the 46 will never get out of it's own way as long as any rendering of the line touches Broadway. here's an idea: run the local like the SBS. meaning, cut the Broadway section off the top of the 46 local and be done with it. run a line (call it the B76) from willy-b to say, empire... but no further south. I'm not saying this is the final and best solution, but as much as the SBS bunches, at least it maintains some resemblance of a headway to give people an opportunity to travel (regardless of how many avoid it altogether due to fare beating, crowds or an unwillingness to deal with off board payment). I'm almost certain that if the 46 local only ran from DeKalb to k.p. (and buses show up less than 20 minutes apart during rush hour) that we won't continue to witness headway chopping every blasted pick. 

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12 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The masses (pedestrians) on the 7th av side tend to cause traffic tie-ups, but gridlock (at least in my experiences) happens more on the 8th av side & the cabs are a large reason for it.....

Should’ve made cab pickup on 31st or 33rd St - either by not turning 33rd into a pedestrian and delivery plaza or closing 31st to thru traffic to get congestion off 7th/8th.

But that would’ve required thinking critically. 

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10 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

 the 46 has always suffered because of BROADWAY. no matter what they do (limiteds to Willy-B & DeKalb, while locals run only to DeKalb or SBS's to DeKalb while senselessly sending every local to the bridge), the 46 will never get out of it's own way as long as any rendering of the line touches Broadway. here's an idea: run the local like the SBS. meaning, cut the Broadway section off the top of the 46 local and be done with it. run a line (call it the B76) from willy-b to say, empire... but no further south. 

What about cutting the whole 46 at DeKalb and extending the 47 to the Bridge Plaza in its place?

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3 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

What about cutting the whole 46 at DeKalb and extending the 47 to the Bridge Plaza in its place?

This will further delay the B47 and yes the route is notorious for delays on the route that it travels from Ralph Avenue on the Crown Heights/Bed-Stuy end. If you extend, return the short turn and just re-instal the B78 for the southern end of the route and for the northern end. Ralph and St. John's to WBP. 

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3 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

What about cutting the whole 46 at DeKalb and extending the 47 to the Bridge Plaza in its place?

How much B46 service would you suggest either [cutting] and/or [short turning at Eastern Pkwy.] to accomplish that? Because with the current amt. of SBS' & locals throughout the course of the day, that simply isn't happening....

12 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

This will further delay the B47 and yes the route is notorious for delays on the route that it travels from Ralph Avenue on the Crown Heights/Bed-Stuy end. If you extend, return the short turn and just re-instal the B78 for the southern end of the route and for the northern end. Ralph and St. John's to WBP. 

Yep, that, and there's simply a greater demand for the B46 over the B47 along Broadway.... It's enough that you have some B46 (local) riders getting off at Dekalb to catch the 46 SBS.... Even if we ignore how unreliable the route is, nobody's going to want to put up w/ the meandrous nature of the B47 around the (3) from the north, when they have a straight shot to it (and the addt'l 4 express) with the B46..... Intra-broadway bus usage isn't all that great & I don't see that improving much, if at all, if you have the B47 covering more of Broadway than the B46 does....

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2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

How much B46 service would you suggest either [cutting] and/or [short turning at Eastern Pkwy.] to accomplish that? Because with the current amt. of SBS' & locals throughout the course of the day, that simply isn't happening....

Yep, that, and there's simply a greater demand for the B46 over the B47 along Broadway.... It's enough that you have some B46 (local) riders getting off at Dekalb to catch the 46 SBS.... Even if we ignore how unreliable the route is, nobody's going to want to put up w/ the meandrous nature of the B47 around the (3) from the north, when they have a straight shot to it (and the addt'l 4 express) with the B46..... Intra-broadway bus usage isn't all that great & I don't see that improving much, if at all, if you have the B47 covering more of Broadway than the B46 does....

Forget about intra-broadway bus service. Bus service is already sporadic with the Q24 and B47. Once they eliminated the true intra-broadway bus service (B40) than everything else along broadway just simply tanked. Now, this would be a conversation on the Brooklyn fantasy bus proposal thread that intra-broadway bus service technically needs to be revived for a few factors and not b/c of the (L) train shutting down. That's one of the contributing factors.

As for the B46, there was a thread a few hours ago mentioning about a creation of the B76. Here's the thing with that. I wouldn't want to have to start on Empire. To me that's not a good terminal to start a route. However, the further south you go on Utica, the worse you are mimicking the 46 local to Kings Plaza.  The sensible thing would be to start at Eastern Parkway. However, with the 14, 17, and part time 46 standing at the parkway it would be possible room to have the 76 stand on Eastern Parkway.

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12 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Forget about intra-broadway bus service. Bus service is already sporadic with the Q24 and B47. Once they eliminated the true intra-broadway bus service (B40) than everything else along broadway just simply tanked. Now, this would be a conversation on the Brooklyn fantasy bus proposal thread that intra-broadway bus service technically needs to be revived for a few factors and not b/c of the (L) train shutting down. That's one of the contributing factors.

As for the B46, there was a thread a few hours ago mentioning about a creation of the B76. Here's the thing with that. I wouldn't want to have to start on Empire. To me that's not a good terminal to start a route. However, the further south you go on Utica, the worse you are mimicking the 46 local to Kings Plaza.  The sensible thing would be to start at Eastern Parkway. However, with the 14, 17, and part time 46 standing at the parkway it would be possible room to have the 76 stand on Eastern Parkway.

Intra-Broadway bus usage....

If I'm to forget about intra-broadway bus service, then I'm also going to forget about reviving the B40 - which would amount to nothing more than a short form of the (inquired) B47 running to WBP..... I want no part of either.

Lastly, I don't know what "B76" you're talking about.....

 

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1 minute ago, B35 via Church said:

Intra-Broadway bus usage....

If I'm to forget about intra-broadway bus service, then I'm also going to forget about reviving the B40 - which would amount to nothing more than a short form of the (inquired) B47 running to WBP..... I want no part of either.

Lastly, I don't know what "B76" you're talking about.....

 

The one that someone proposed if the B46 were cut back from running along Broadway....

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3 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Forget about intra-broadway bus service. Bus service is already sporadic with the Q24 and B47. Once they eliminated the true intra-broadway bus service (B40) than everything else along broadway just simply tanked. Now, this would be a conversation on the Brooklyn fantasy bus proposal thread that intra-broadway bus service technically needs to be revived for a few factors and not b/c of the (L) train shutting down. That's one of the contributing factors.

As for the B46, there was a thread a few hours ago mentioning about a creation of the B76. Here's the thing with that. I wouldn't want to have to start on Empire. To me that's not a good terminal to start a route. However, the further south you go on Utica, the worse you are mimicking the 46 local to Kings Plaza.  The sensible thing would be to start at Eastern Parkway. However, with the 14, 17, and part time 46 standing at the parkway it would be possible room to have the 76 stand on Eastern Parkway.

the only reason i suggested empire is because as an operator, i know how easy it is for a double parked car or an improperly parked car to delay the operation of the B14/17 on the service road. I've had it happen to me when i worked out of East NY depot. i figured developing a turn around/layover on empire would avoid the headache of any eastern parkway additional layover buses. that area is already a mess with the dollar vans tying up that intersection

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3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The one that someone proposed if the B46 were cut back from running along Broadway....

Yes, i suggested cutting the 46 local at DeKalb and having a separate line serve the willy-b portion. 

my intent wasn't to turn this thread into a bus line proposal thread. i was simply discussing how opposed i was to the 46 local headways being consistently cut

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23 hours ago, JubaionBx12+SBS said:

Aren't the latter two permanent fixtures in the top 10 for ridership? Of course they will reach it if they're always there. The former tanked it's way out of the top 10 and may soon be out of the top 20. The MTA seems to have some fetish for these routes which involves reducing service levels. It is beyond my imagination what the deal is here. 

I think he meant top 10 for ridership loss.

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14 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

the only reason i suggested empire is because as an operator, i know how easy it is for a double parked car or an improperly parked car to delay the operation of the B14/17 on the service road. I've had it happen to me when i worked out of East NY depot. i figured developing a turn around/layover on empire would avoid the headache of any eastern parkway additional layover buses. that area is already a mess with the dollar vans tying up that intersection

You know what. I looked it from a passengers perspective rather than a drivers perspective to end on Eastern Parkway. Getting out of Eastern Parkway can be very tragic  I've noticed as of late some buses are using the main road to pick up from the station and turning into Utica via 17, and 46  

However, I will agree with ending at Empire/East New York Avenue. The turnaround would be simple to get back on Utica Avenue. 

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I would have just retained the X designation for the Staten Island restructuring. None of this SIMx crap. As far as the M4 goes, maybe its for the better. I wonder when the M3 will truncated somewhere. The Q32 will continue to serve Penn Station for now. 5 Av (E)(M) is an oddball/facepalm terminal. I just LMAO'ed when I saw that tourists ask if the Q32 goes deep up the Upper East Side. Welp, we can get rid of those "extend the Q60 and/or Q101 extentions to Penn Station" ideas, since 32 will no longer accomodate so much bus traffic. 

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29 minutes ago, Q43LTD said:

I would have just retained the X designation for the Staten Island restructuring. None of this SIMx crap. As far as the M4 goes, maybe its for the better. I wonder when the M3 will truncated somewhere. The Q32 will continue to serve Penn Station for now. 5 Av (E)(M) is an oddball/facepalm terminal. I just LMAO'ed when I saw that tourists ask if the Q32 goes deep up the Upper East Side. Welp, we can get rid of those "extend the Q60 and/or Q101 extentions to Penn Station" ideas, since 32 will no longer accomodate so much bus traffic. 

Not saying that I agree with the idea (I don't), but there's still that Q66 SBS to Columbus Circle idea that's been proposed by DOT.

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On 4/22/2018 at 10:05 PM, EastFlatbushLarry said:

Yes, i suggested cutting the 46 local at DeKalb and having a separate line serve the willy-b portion.

16 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

You know what. I looked it from a passengers perspective rather than a drivers perspective to end on Eastern Parkway. Getting out of Eastern Parkway can be very tragic  I've noticed as of late some buses are using the main road to pick up from the station and turning into Utica via 17, and 46  

However, I will agree with ending at Empire/East New York Avenue. The turnaround would be simple to get back on Utica Avenue. 

I can't concur with any type of splitting of the B46.... Just have more local buses running to WBP & less total SBS' on the road running to Dekalb.... The stark imbalance b/w the locals & SBS is the crux of the problem, infinitely moreso than the B46 routing b/w WBP & Kings Plaza itself.....

 

6 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

I would have just retained the X designation for the Staten Island restructuring. None of this SIMx crap. As far as the M4 goes, maybe its for the better. I wonder when the M3 will truncated somewhere. The Q32 will continue to serve Penn Station for now. 5 Av (E)(M) is an oddball/facepalm terminal. I just LMAO'ed when I saw that tourists ask if the Q32 goes deep up the Upper East Side. Welp, we can get rid of those "extend the Q60 and/or Q101 extentions to Penn Station" ideas, since 32 will no longer accomodate so much bus traffic. 

From top to bottom (Ft Tryon to Midtown), cutting the M4 back about 1/2 mile won't do much..... Like BM5 stated, I also think this is a means for having more M4 trips in general do the short turn trips from 135th to Ft. Tryon (which is where you'd really see the effects of any "truncation")....

As for the Q32 & being asked if buses pan further north than they don't, well the assumption is that the Q32 operates like the M1-4 (in other words, just another Madison av. route)....

 

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20 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Not saying that I agree with the idea (I don't), but there's still that Q66 SBS to Columbus Circle idea that's been proposed by DOT.

I hope that never comes to pass. What would be the routing in Manhattan? 

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